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Author Topic:   On the Mend(ing)
T
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posted January 19, 2014 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the recent closed topics got me thinking....

About if it is always a wise choice to be the bigger person and "forgive" or engage at all with some people (even family members) and try to repair something that maybe isnt meant to be repaired. By doing so could you be hindering them (not to mention possibly yourself) or prolonging a deep honest look someone might need to take within themself and actually hurting or enabling them.

There is a saying that goes something like: "Why continue to cross oceans for people that won't even jump a puddle for you?"

While i can understand it important for some people to make peace with unruly, abusive (etc) parents before the parent dies, i still have to wonder if not everyone is supposed to end the relationship on that note (with the kid excusing behavior and ultimately no issues really resolved).

What if it was meant to be a life lesson for the parent but the child gave them the easy way out by sucking it up again and continuing the same song and dance to go on.

It could at the same time be one of the grown child's main life lessons not to continue a cycle of abuse and stand their ground (or a number of other different ones that could only be understood on a personal individual level)

and the grown kid could still come to terms quite well and not live a life of regret about the parent passing on. Because maybe that's what that parent actually needed. Not for the kid to always be the one to excuse their behavior. Which isnt always the most loving thing to do, imo.

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T
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posted January 19, 2014 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm saying maybe in some instances it's best to leave the forgiving up to that person and themself ....on their own......where it really always belongs or is most important and most powerful and transformative. Not always be the one making it easy on them or doing it for them. There comes a time when one can't continue to do that, for the health of both people.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 19, 2014 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What if it was meant to be a life lesson for the parent but the child gave them the easy way out by sucking it up again and continuing the same song and dance to go on.

This made me cry. For me, my mother loves me. She loves me a lot. We have Venus trine Venus BUT she has a world view which I must subscribe to.


That is kind of the unwritten law.

I know people say not to listen but her love is contingent on it.

You see, when a person has a huge mask, you must keep that mask on them, too.

You can't do anything that will threaten it or they will destroy you.

That mask must stay, first and foremost.

Where does that leave you?

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Ami Anne
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posted January 19, 2014 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mask hides a fragile ego. The ferocity with which a person will defend that ego knows no bounds.

They will destroy anyone who takes the mask off.

They just will, so what does one do?

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mercuranian
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From: chiron
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 19, 2014 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercuranian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by T:
the recent closed topics got me thinking....

About if it is always a wise choice to be the bigger person and "forgive" or engage at all with some people (even family members) and try to repair something that maybe isnt meant to be repaired. By doing so could you be hindering them (not to mention possibly yourself) or prolonging a deep honest look someone might need to take within themself and actually hurting or enabling them.

There is a saying that goes something like: "Why continue to cross oceans for people that won't even jump a puddle for you?"

While i can understand it important for some people to make peace with unruly, abusive (etc) parents before the parent dies, i still have to wonder if not everyone is supposed to end the relationship on that note (with the kid excusing behavior and ultimately no issues really resolved).

What if it was meant to be a life lesson for the parent but the child gave them the easy way out by sucking it up again and continuing the same song and dance to go on.

It could at the same time be one of the grown child's main life lessons not to continue a cycle of abuse and stand their ground (or a number of other different ones that could only be understood on a personal individual level)

and the grown kid could still come to terms quite well and not live a life of regret about the parent passing on. Because maybe that's what that parent actually needed. Not for the kid to always be the one to excuse their behavior. Which isnt always the most loving thing to do, imo.



YES!! this^^

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Padre35
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From: Asheville, NC, US
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posted January 19, 2014 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Wow T, you are on fire tonight w/interesting topics

I little about me and "masks", for decades people relied on me to perform certain roles, as in if I screwed things up, someone was going to prison or worse, type of roles.

This led to a natural distrust of being open and honest and..myself..ie my "mask"

After so many years of subverting the true "me" I found the net and the wonderful people on it n(sometimes)

This is one of the reasons why I'll post threads that seem really weird, or very self centered..I'm working trying to change somethings about myself and that is one of the ways it manifests.

2 things..I'm always as honest as I can be, and I've NEVER violated a confidence, to my hurt, I just won't talk about some things.

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PixieJane
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posted January 19, 2014 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've definitely seen cases where people should cut out their parents for all time...and also parents who should cut out their grown kids, too. Something miraculous might happen to change that but I wouldn't count on it. It doesn't have to be about blame, it can actually be easier to forgive by separating knowing you'll never share your life with them again. Forgiveness isn't for the other person as it is for yourself so that they don't keep holding power over you that can even afflict you when they're not around (as unresolved issues invade new relationships, bitterness leads to depression and perhaps substance abuse, etc). More importantly, forgiveness isn't about rolling over so someone can kick you again or enabling someone to practice destructive habits (to self or others), sometimes love has to get tough or let go.

I'm in an unusual twilight place, I suppose. I doubt I'll ever see Dad again in this life though I'd like to go to his funeral (no matter how much his family might not welcome me there), but I bear him no ill will or bitterness. I'm similar with Mom though she'll inherit her mom's home in a matter of speaking but it will actually go to me. I plan to let her live there as if it was hers, my main concern is making sure it stays in the extended family. Even if I move back in I'll take my old room (which I slept in as a little girl as did Mom and Granny) and she can have the master bedroom for the rest of her days (assuming she doesn't push me too far). I even have some sympathy for her but she's a bitter scorpion and I know it's her nature to sting so I'll never trust her. Perhaps a near death experience (complete with visions of the Light, etc) might turn her from a Gray Lizard into a Phoenix, which I'd dearly love to see, but I don't bother hoping for it, and neither does her mom which is why her mom is leaving the house to me instead of her.

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Faith
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posted January 19, 2014 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
--

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Faith
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posted January 19, 2014 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:

Wow T, you are on fire tonight w/interesting topics

I little about me and "masks", for decades people relied on me to perform certain roles, as in if I screwed things up, someone was going to prison or worse, type of roles.

This led to a natural distrust of being open and honest and..myself..ie my "mask"

After so many years of subverting the true "me" I found the net and the wonderful people on it n(sometimes)

This is one of the reasons why I'll post threads that seem really weird, or very self centered..I'm working trying to change somethings about myself and that is one of the ways it manifests.

2 things..I'm always as honest as I can be, and I've NEVER violated a confidence, to my hurt, I just won't talk about some things.


Thank you for explaining.

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Faith
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posted January 19, 2014 11:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by T:
Because maybe that's what that parent actually needed. Not for the kid to always be the one to excuse their behavior. Which isnt always the most loving thing to do, imo.

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Padre35
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posted January 20, 2014 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Thank you for explaining.

Oh my, you once commented on why I'm "confusing"

That is a remainder of my past life, it's a defense mechanism, there are/were times when ideas had t6o be conveyed, but clarity was a bad bad idea, the other person should just "get it"

It's something of a code, apologies for not being clear

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Faith
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posted January 20, 2014 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should have figured there might be a dark reason for your style of communication, and had more patience instead of just getting exasperated. Sorry back.

*handshake*

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Violets
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From: Twin Peaks
Registered: Apr 2011

posted January 20, 2014 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my personal observations of family members, friends, and my own life, forgiveness is not something that can be forced, and it is not something that people should or can be shamed into having.

If you're not at the point where forgiveness is feasible, then you're just not there. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that, because forgiveness is something that takes time, not willpower.

If a person is so toxic to be around, family or not, that they are damaging to your life, it is absolutely better to cut ties with them, as painful as that can be.

We can forgive people for the damage they've created in our lives, and still make an absolutely healthy decision not to be around them in any way.

I think it basically amounts to where we're at with our ability to forgive (it's not a race), and how much stress and/or damage a family member creates for us when we choose to interact with them. Is it worth it? It really is a "yes or no" question.

It's such a personal thing for each individual. Not everyone is going to have the luxury of being in a place emotionally or psychologically where they are able to "make peace" with an abusive parent before that parent dies. Not everyone wants to, or cares to.

That's very unfortunate when a person is waiting for an apology or acknowledgement, and they never get that. But sadly, it happens all the time.

I don't think it's at all in anyone's best interest to try to continue healing a toxic relationship that simply cannot be healed.

But, in the end, the question is always still "is it worth it?" when interacting with toxic family members who have been abusive. If yes, then okay. If no, then it's fine to go your own way and try your best to move on.

That's my opinion, anyway.
And I'm rambling a bit, without thinking much before I type.
...Low blood sugar and all that.

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Violets
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From: Twin Peaks
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posted January 20, 2014 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eh...sorry if I got a little carried away there. I have a lot to say about this, but I'm too tired and a bit too spacey to really be able to say anything eloquently.

So I'll come back later.

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Padre35
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posted January 20, 2014 03:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
I should have figured there might be a dark reason for your style of communication, and had more patience instead of just getting exasperated. Sorry back.

*handshake*


Chapeaux!

It's a very old habit and I felt an explanation was due

The idea being, someone who looked at it would not really know what was really going on, the person being talked to would "know"

This is one of the reasons why I rarely directly give an answer, I know I'm doing it..just cannot..stop..doing it..yet

Flip side is when I'm really honest and direct, it either scares the hell out of people or..they really really like to hear it

That is more "me" but my unvarnished opinion is so harsh it would make YTA blush at the frank brutality of it.


To this day tho, I'm just not a gossip, what is told to me in confidence remains in confidence UNLESS:

-They bring it up
-Death releases all bonds

Good friend of mine died, he had a daughter no one knew abt save for me and him, once he died told the family there was a daughter in another state

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12muddy
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posted January 20, 2014 04:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 12muddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No I don't think it is always a wise choice to forgive and tolerate. Some people try to do that at the cost of their physical and/or emotional safety. It's a personal thing and there are too many factors that influence the decision to forgive, so yeah everyone's case is different.

Parents... hmm there were times I wondered if I should cut them off. But there's some kind of a vicious cycle in my extended family. Harsh treatments were/are mirrored and passed down from parents to children. I'm pretty determined to end it, at least for my own family. Mending" things can be a way for us to heal/move on ...etc... so I keep trying.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 20, 2014 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You make wonderful contributions, Violets

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


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Ami Anne
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posted January 20, 2014 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had this huge revelation, yesterday. My stomach always hurts me, or mostly. I hold my stomach on alert because I am afraid of anger. I feel I cannot defend myself, if need be.

It is a posture of my inner child. I have to start really trying to set boundaries and know that I can keep myself safe.

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Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Faith
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posted January 20, 2014 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
I don't think it's at all in anyone's best interest to try to continue healing a toxic relationship that simply cannot be healed.

Definitely. Sometimes, though, trying to gain clarity on that point is what's so hard. Even with romantic relationships or friendships. I mentioned my sister last night and then figured it was TMI...but now I want to add that my sister cut ME off, not the other way around.

I'm not sure if I could have ever cut her off, toxic as the relationship was.

So I'm just happy she made that choice.

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Violets
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posted January 20, 2014 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Ami.

I still have a bit to say about this, but I'm still drinking my coffee, haha.

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Faith
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posted January 20, 2014 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Padre

I see, there is an upside to being naturally secretive, it makes you a good confidante.

I love when people are direct, even if it's harsh, at least it's not BS.

Edit: I didn't mean to imply that your more cryptic postings are BS. Cryptic and BS are two separate things.

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Faith
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posted January 20, 2014 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 12muddy:
Mending" things can be a way for us to heal/move on ...etc... so I keep trying.

From what you've said about your family background I find this totally remarkable and am in awe of you.

Or, I should say, MORE in awe of you, since I still cannot get over your photography or dressmaking skills. Or math ability. Or the fact that you speak several languages and have flawless skin.

Signed,
Little green person

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Violets
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posted January 20, 2014 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Definitely. Sometimes, though, trying to gain clarity on that point is what's so hard. Even with romantic relationships or friendships. I mentioned my sister last night and then figured it was TMI...but now I want to add that my sister cut ME off, not the other way around.

I'm not sure if I could have ever cut her off, toxic as the relationship was.

So I'm just happy she made that choice.


I can absolutely understand that. I am sure that if I were in your position it would not be an easy choice to cut ties with my sister. I doubt I would, honestly. That scenario is one of those very grey areas in life where there is not really a "yes or no" answer.

I can understand how you would feel relieved that she made the decision, and that you didn't have to. I would probably feel the same way.

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Violets
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posted January 20, 2014 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's extremely difficult to cut ties with even the most toxic family members, and as was mentioned, gaining clarity is something that people NEED, but don't always get. So we keep trying.

I think it's all pretty understandable, but I also think that if a person has a parent who has been emotionally or physically abusive throughout their childhood, and continues abusive behavior into their adulthood, there's definitely some choices that need to be made as far as engaging with that parent (or any other relative, for that matter).

The thing about some of that is that when someone has scarred our childhoods, it is a serious offense in a way.

Some people genuinely can't help their behavior, some people are lost, and I suppose that there are some people who are simply not good people, and that's why they hurt other people. (I guess...? I don't know, since I'm not walking in their shoes.)

There were many times throughout my younger years when my family could easily have cut ties with me, because I was in a really bad place in my life with what I was doing and what I was participating in. But they didn't, and I'm very grateful that they did not.

I waited for a long time for an apology from my mom, but realized that perhaps it's simply too painful for her to face some of the damage that she didn't mean to inflict on me. So I don't bring it up anymore, and I've been able to forgive her.

But I consider myself really fortunate in those ways. I have peace with my family, but I see a lot of people who aren't granted that luxury. That's a very hard road to walk.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 20, 2014 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
Thank you, Ami.

I still have a bit to say about this, but I'm still drinking my coffee, haha.



What kind of coffee do you like, Violets?

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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