posted May 17, 2014 09:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
It's so weird that it becomes a focal point, like a freak show at the circus.

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This is a little harsh. You are perhaps not inherently wrong (I can understand you two know each other quite well), but when you come out swinging like an amazon, you're in danger of overdoing it you know?

posted May 17, 2014 09:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I don't know how to get around the fact that there are some things that people who've been around for a long time know, that newcomers cannot know.

I would give examples of people who Ami passive-aggressively baits by calling them "My Friend" but it's not my business to expose those members, as they are choosing to deal with her simply by ignoring her.

Thus you are confused, because they ignore her. They don't make the tension evident. See?

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posted May 17, 2014 10:54 AM            

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posted May 17, 2014 10:58 AM            

I knew you didnīt mean me; I was just expressing my sadness in general about these things.

I have a slightly different view on Faith than you do. I think she might obsess about it here, because she feels it is really an issue and it gets glossed over.
That is just my thoughts on what she may be thinking. I donīt know if she is right.

I really donīt want this to become an Ami-thread. (just as it baffled me with the last threads, that somehow became Aqua-guy-threads.).

But it is also true what she said on the last page of this thread. I am certainly one of the members who chose to ignore, and I start wondering if it was the right decision.

However, event hough Ami and me are not friends, and her addressing me as such, sometimes feels even intrusive (I like to pick my friends myself and do not like to be called friend or honey or darling by just anyone), I was not saying anything about it, cause first of all it is a little thing, and secondly it might be just the way she expresses herself, or even cultural differences, I donīt know.
I see these terms of endearment tossed around very casually these days, and probably noone can guess that I don`t like this, if I donīt say anything about it.

But as I said, I don`t want to really talk about Ami, especially because she is not here, and I dislike talking about a third person in their absence or as if they were absent.

posted May 17, 2014 11:37 AM            

I think the LL community is saying they are tired of the picking. LL is a peaceful community, most of the time. It is getting more so that way, as it evolves. That is why picking at people stands out more imo

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posted May 17, 2014 12:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I really didn't know you felt that way about me, Ceri, because we have had some good astro discussions but your Nessus conj my Sun, exact. However, whatever the reason, YOU act in a gracious and mature way. If you don't like someone, you ignore. In a community of 2000, people are not going to like certain people. A person can choose to pick someone apart, on and on, or ignore.

I think the LL community is saying they are tired of the picking. LL is a peaceful community, most of the time. It is getting more so that way, as it evolves. That is why picking at people stands out more imo

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I`m sorry if I hurt you.
Actually it is more complicated like that. It is not that I don`t like YOU, but I donīt like how you ACT sometimes, or at least how it seems to me, seen through my lenses.
however, there is room for many people, and even if I don`t want to be friends with everyone, I respect/ accept people, just because they are people, and to a degree I am thankful, cause I learn a lot through interaction with so different people.

And I am very aware of the fact that I have my subjective view on things, shaped by my own personality and my own experiences, just like everyone else does.

posted May 17, 2014 12:12 PM            

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posted May 17, 2014 12:15 PM            

Sometimes issues need to be brought out in the open so they can be dealt with.

At other times though bringing them up will not solve a single thing.

It`s not easy to discern when it is wiser to walk away and when to stay and address these issues.

I am not specifically meaning you and me here, but just in general pondering about it.

posted May 17, 2014 12:19 PM            

True, that is where wisdom comes in and wisdom is hard to come by and usually comes by screwing up

A person cannot really see himself unless others show him his face, often. Hence, one has to be free to express oneself, so one can learn.

However, one cannot learn by mud slinging and meanness. One learns through love and being respected and trusting that the advice comes from a loving place.

However, it is all about balance and Randall tells us to close the thread when discussion has turned into mud slinging, so that is the rule of thumb.

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posted May 17, 2014 12:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I start wondering though how much ignoring is really a good thing?

Sometimes issues need to be brought out in the open so they can be dealt with.

At other times though bringing them up will not solve a single thing.

It`s not easy to discern when it is wiser to walk away and when to stay and address these issues.

I am not specifically meaning you and me here, but just in general pondering about it.

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That has actually been on my mind ever since yesterday night, when the thread picked up.

posted May 17, 2014 12:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:
That has actually been on my mind ever since yesterday night, when the thread picked up.

Just in a different context of course, you have been here for a long longer.

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I am not sure the duration of my stay here has anything to do with it. Everyone can pick up on certain things I suppose. You did.

I also want to stress that at a certain point, I find it simply pointless to beat a dead horse. I mean if two people are very firm in their opinions and have concluded they REALLY disagree with no room for closing the gap, then I donīt see the point in taking this discussion any further, cause all it can lead into seems to be some repetition, which gets boring after a while, and worst case, mudslinging and personal insults.

posted May 17, 2014 12:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Faith, are you going to turn every thread into an Ami rant? Really?

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Hi Randall,

Would you consider asking Ami if she is going to stop talking about ignoring me and actually do it?

Why is that, if Ami and I clash, the blame invariably falls on me, even if I had been ignoring her and ignoring her until she just got so ridiculously in my face, I couldn't help addressing her...if only for the sake of clarity, so onlookers could see what was actually happening?

Can you not see how she provokes people? Honestly?

I don't relish having the last word, you make me sound pettier than I am. And I am not obsessed, I am just keeping on track, doing what I do. If someone jabs me, I don't want to have to pretend they didn't jab me. If someone demands that I keep taking jabs and always stay mum about it...well, Randall, to me, that's a kind of abuse.

As you've given Ami the carte blanche right to provoke, then others should have a right to retalliate.

Your decision to ignore Ami's provocations doesn't nullify them or make them "not happen." You have made the decision to treat every single incident of someone accusing her of underhanded behavior and baiting as totally separate and unrelated, failing to weigh the cumulative weight of all these accusations. You act as if they are non-existent. Or as if I'm the only one coming out against Ami? Please. At least you can be up front enough to admit that Ami has a long history of entanglement with people. To pretend otherwise is deception.

Since you seem to feel that Ami is above reproach in every incident that involves her, I have had to deal with Ami's heckling/condescending preaching/baiting towards as I see fit. Usually, I do this with an eye to her humanity, and several times I've made it clear that all I want is for her to evolve and move past whatever compels her to try and drag other people down.

Ultimately, if you want me and Ami to stop fighting, you can tell her to stop addressing me altogether, to pretend I am not here. I never acknowledge her until she acknowledges me.

Though, considering how you and she are...whatever you are.... I think that is unlikely to happen.

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@Ceri

I've seen Ami do that to more people than just you and didn't mean to incriminate anyone for how they choose to respond.

I was just saying, for me, I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression about where I stand. So if Ami were to start treating me like we are on good terms, that would actually be a passive-aggressive thing to do, because there's no reason, no grounds for me think she is sincere. And onlookers will get HER impression unless I address it, and I don't like giving people wrong impressions. So I would rather look bad and be honest, swatting away (most likely insincere) gestures of friendliness. And she puts people in that position, to make that choice: be honest and "mean," or collude* with her in given newbies a fake impression of where they stand. I choose my own response, but that is just ME, of course.

ETA: *inadvertantly

As I was saying, for those who do choose to ignore it, the actual dynamic is just invisible to newcomers who only see Ami reaching out with hearts and not getting a response. They don't see how hearts can be bait. Indeed, one must be rather ill to use hearts as bait, or to consistently be confusing about one's intentions. And as I've said, I don't mean to possibly worsen an illness by discussing it openly, but sometimes it feels like I have no choice, if I am going to stick to my own "code of ethics" ie "Be the change you want to see in the world." And also maybe if someone realizes they can't get away with their BS anymore, they will finally take a different approach.

posted May 17, 2014 12:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:
Wow... so much being dragged up. Missed the thread being closed, though.

Does anyone still want me to reply to the posts of yesterday or... I mean, go ahead and use my thread if there's issues you want to talk about and talk over.

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Hi Rie,

I just wanted to thank you for being cool. This thread has given me a platform to say what I needed to say.

Hopefully it's done some good.

If not, I really did try.

But thanks again.

posted May 17, 2014 12:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
For now, i'll say just this: leave this topic open and let's settle things here. If you close this topic again - and force the other to suppress the current issues "again" - they'll just come out in other topics - "as it keeps happening". That's no way to solve issues. It's same as in real life - hiding behind a close door - won't make those issues go away (they won't solve themselves on their own). Will they?

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^ THIS ^

posted May 17, 2014 12:52 PM            

I see what you mean.

In a way I am glad you brought it up, it makes me think about if I am swallowing down too much and if I have to work on setting my boundaries differently, explicitly, not implicitly.
Like my mom sais: only if you speak up, you can be heard.

posted May 17, 2014 12:57 PM            

If I've said anything helpful to anyone, I'm happy. If I've said anything that YOU find useful, I'm extra happy.

Despite how it may appear, these kinds of threads DO take a big toll on me, my Pisces moon is just writhing under all this tension, so I am giving it a rest.

'Might be back later tonight, but I've pretty much said my peace here.

posted May 17, 2014 12:58 PM            

When I came on here, I decided to let people know me. In doing that, I let my issues out, one of which was an obsession with my mother and what happened to me.

I did not shut up about it and a lot of people got angry. It provoked them and their pain.

The more mature people understood and gave me a hand up.

In time, I could see what I was doing but it took time and it took lots of interactions with people, good and bad.

However, I could never have opened up like this in real life because I was afraid.

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