posted May 16, 2014 03:31 PM            

But there's something I do want to say.
I'm a bit bothered by some members being Accused of bullying or victimizing others. Especially with Kerosene being banned and reading what people have said about him.

Faith and Pixie have been accused of this, too. But from what I've seen, these were fights. Nobody was a helpless victim here - the people they had problems with gave it just as much as they got. And some of the stuff said here really put me off - it really upset me, and it wasn't even directed at me. I was recoiling behind my screen reading some comments.

When someone gets thrown at them that they're going after someone and such (I'm reading some old threads to be sure), it makes me sad. Really sad.

I'm sorry, it's just... as someone who has been bullied, both online and in real life, to the point of seriously wanting to kill myself, I just don't like seeing these words tossed around so casually.

Of course I feel bad for the other party, too, if what was said was harsh. But it's not attacking someone to me.

posted May 16, 2014 03:44 PM            

quote:

---

I'm a bit bothered by some members being Accused of bullying or victimizing others.

---

posted May 16, 2014 03:50 PM            

Who accused me of bullying?

I guess you can't show what you mean without dredging up quotes that you don't even want to look at, so I don't know how to get more clarity from you.

Just wanted to say, don't sweat the small stuff.

posted May 16, 2014 04:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Hi Rie,

Who accused me of bullying?

I guess you can't show what you mean without dredging up quotes that you don't even want to look at, so I don't know how to get more clarity from you.

Just wanted to say, don't sweat the small stuff.

We can't change this forum, just adapt or leave; Randall has been consistent about that.

---

Hey Faith,

Nah, it's mostly just not wanting to call people out like that. The bullying accusation I haven't seen being thrown at you, but quite some other stuff in the heat of the fight. Like going after someone, being manipulative, etc.

Just... both parties have a share in it. So I don't like people suddenly backing out and saying things like that LL members are ganging up on them.

It feels to me sometimes as if you, Kerosene or others are made to be this big bad wolf just because you/he/they replied and were blunt about it.

posted May 16, 2014 04:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Kerosene was banned for repeated violations of the rules and for disrespecting a Mod as well as others. Don't make him out to be something more than he is. He's no hero. He's no martyr. He's just a person who couldn't control his impulses. He cared more about being a dick than he did about being a part of this community, or else he wouldn't have challenged authority for the umpteenth time after he was warned that this was his last chance.

---

wow this is the first time i think i've read any kind of cuss word from you.

posted May 16, 2014 04:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
That word has common usage in the US as synonymous with jerk.

---

posted May 16, 2014 04:41 PM            

Since you seem to know everyone and want to be contentious, what was your previous user name?

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posted May 16, 2014 04:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Kerosene was banned for repeated violations of the rules and for disrespecting a Mod as well as others. Don't make him out to be something more than he is. He's no hero. He's no martyr. He's just a person who couldn't control his impulses. He cared more about being a dick than he did about being a part of this community, or else he wouldn't have challenged authority for the umpteenth time after he was warned that this was his last chance.

---

Exactly as I feel about it.

On to the general topic...

Whether anyone actually noticed or not... Even kero himself, on multiple occasions some time ago I ignored our previous "fights" and attempted to be civil.
As stated, he had his irresistible impulses and wouldn't have any of it.

I will also use Faith as an example here. If she is not bothered by whatever accusations are being tossed at her, then it shouldn't bother the rest of us. Give each a chance to stand up for themselves.

On the same token, if there is very clear disrespect going on such as the things kero said on a very regular basis then I personally wouldn't care what the "victim" even thought about it. It's uncalled for (I'm just as guilty but not as frequently and not just tossed around to so many people).
It needn't be tolerated - period.

In those cases I wouldn't even consider if the majority thought he was entertaining if his actions are such consistently... Bye.

posted May 16, 2014 04:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
AqMoon

Since you seem to know everyone and want to be contentious, what was your previous user name?

---

deptaurus

contentious if you think i am i guess it's your right to feel that way.If this opinion is about the post i wanted closed then i'm sorry if i was rude with you,but it was going to go no-where and i wanted attention brought on it for the sole purpose of closing it.

if your feelings got hurt...i apologize i can admit my faults.wanted to get that out of the way because i know it would have come up eventually.

posted May 16, 2014 04:49 PM            

I think your issue is more than the fights here. I think it is your own bullying. IMO, you may get help if you would talk about that.
Also, do you have Chiron conj the ASC or MC? What does your Deja do?

Each of us sees through our own lens and acts through our own lens. When we interact with others, we can find people who will help us polish our lens and/or find a new and better one.

That happened to me as a result of being on LL. I used to have an ego that fought at everything which is the opposite of being bullied but still the same, an out of whack ego.

I have learned to not be so reactive as a result of BEING reactive and having wise people help me, with love, not condemnation.

That does no one any good.

At any rate, I feel your issue is bigger than LL and you can share it, if you would like.

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posted May 16, 2014 04:54 PM            

if your feelings got hurt...i apologize i can admit my faults.wanted to get that out of the way because i know it would have come up eventually.

I got a contentious vibe from you since you first came on here and now how you are talking to Randall but I may be wrong.

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posted May 16, 2014 04:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]deptaurus

contentious if you think i am i guess it's your right to feel that way.If this opinion is about the post i wanted closed then i'm sorry if i was rude with you,but it was going to go no-where and i wanted attention brought on it for the sole purpose of closing it.

if your feelings got hurt...i apologize i can admit my faults.wanted to get that out of the way because i know it would have come up eventually.

I got a contentious vibe from you since you first came on here and now how you are talking to Randall but I may be wrong.

[/B]

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no i'm from Canada so when the word D@@k is used it usually means what it is.

I honestly have never heard him use that word or any other word to describe any one on here,so i was surprised whoever this person was must have really ruffled some feathers.\

I do want to set an example on ere for everyone so...i'll just go on to say i don't think we'll get along very well so if you agree i think it best if we just avoid each-other on here.

posted May 16, 2014 04:58 PM            

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posted May 16, 2014 05:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Kerosene was banned for repeated violations of the rules and for disrespecting a Mod as well as others. Don't make him out to be something more than he is. He's no hero. He's no martyr. He's just a person who couldn't control his impulses. He cared more about being a dick than he did about being a part of this community, or else he wouldn't have challenged authority for the umpteenth time after he was warned that this was his last chance.

---

Oh, I don't want to take away from that. I agree that was not cool and I understand why that went too far for you or the other mods.

posted May 16, 2014 05:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Exactly as I feel about it.

On to the general topic...

Whether anyone actually noticed or not... Even kero himself, on multiple occasions some time ago I ignored our previous "fights" and attempted to be civil.
As stated, he had his irresistible impulses and wouldn't have any of it.

I will also use Faith as an example here. If she is not bothered by whatever accusations are being tossed at her, then it shouldn't bother the rest of us. Give each a chance to stand up for themselves.

On the same token, if there is very clear disrespect going on such as the things kero said on a very regular basis then I personally wouldn't care what the "victim" even thought about it. It's uncalled for (I'm just as guilty but not as frequently and not just tossed around to so many people).
It needn't be tolerated - period.

In those cases I wouldn't even consider if the majority thought he was entertaining if his actions are such consistently... Bye.

Of course I mean generally. Kero just being an example.
Accusations... Let the accused stand up. If it gets ugly.... Step in.
I don't feel bothered by that.

---

I took it as that she was reassuring me, not that she's okay with it. But fine, let's say you're right. Then still I don't like how she's been made out as if she's out to get the person she was arguing with. I know she can stand up for herself and she has. Still feel she's been called some nasty things at times.

Some others, too. But the members who said they felt victimized... they said some awful things, too. Come on, they should admit that.

He did say some things that were way out of line. I sensed someone really fed up and expressing that on impulse, but yes, of course there's stuff he shouldn't have said.
All I meant is that in all of these cases - and not just with him, they weren't the only one. And I don't want that being glossed over.

posted May 16, 2014 05:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Meis

I think your issue is more than the fights here. I think it is your own bullying. IMO, you may get help if you would talk about that.
Also, do you have Chiron conj the ASC or MC? What does your Deja do?

Each of us sees through our own lens and acts through our own lens. When we interact with others, we can find people who will help us polish our lens and/or find a new and better one.

That happened to me as a result of being on LL. I used to have an ego that fought at everything which is the opposite of being bullied but still the same, an out of whack ego.

I have learned to not be so reactive as a result of BEING reactive and having wise people help me, with love, not condemnation.

That does no one any good.

At any rate, I feel your issue is bigger than LL and you can share it, if you would like.

---

Ami, you have a good point. But be honest, would you have suggested this if I hadn't brought up that I was bullied? I doubt so right now.

Yes, I have my issues and I'm working on them. When possible, I indeed let things go, knowing it's also me being super sensitive to these things. You're right about that. But this is one of those times I thought it went too far.

Chiron conj. MC and Dejanira square my Sun and the Nodes. Chiron is in Cancer, Dejanira in Scorpio - both sensitive signs.

Of course if someone gets attacked for no reason, that would be unacceptable and believe me that I'm not talking about situations like that. The ones I was thinking of, however, were where both parties lashed out at each other. I didn't feel the power imbalance that's implied with bullying/going after someone/having it in for someone.

posted May 16, 2014 05:31 PM            

How close?

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posted May 16, 2014 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Hey everyone.
I know this is probably going to end in this thread being closed. People may get annoyed I'm raking things up and all... but I didn't want to post this in the Members Appreciation thread. Didn't want to ruin it. Things were going so well there with all of that positivity.

But there's something I do want to say.
I'm a bit bothered by some members being Accused of bullying or victimizing others. Especially with Kerosene being banned and reading what people have said about him.

Faith and Pixie have been accused of this, too. But from what I've seen, these were fights. Nobody was a helpless victim here - the people they had problems with gave it just as much as they got. And some of the stuff said here really put me off - it really upset me, and it wasn't even directed at me. I was recoiling behind my screen reading some comments.

When someone gets thrown at them that they're going after someone and such (I'm reading some old threads to be sure), it makes me sad. Really sad.

I'm sorry, it's just... as someone who has been bullied, both online and in real life, to the point of seriously wanting to kill myself, I just don't like seeing these words tossed around so casually.

Of course I feel bad for the other party, too, if what was said was harsh. But it's not attacking someone to me.

Can anyone see where I'm coming from?

---

Kerosene wasn't banned for bullying - objectively speaking (as I'm not the kind that holds sides - even though i was in good terms with him) - his Ban was justified. But yes - i know where you're coming from (i understand what you're saying). And I'm sorry to hear that you've been through stuff like that... to that extent. Your vibe seems in tune with what you said (you seem legit - an actual victim of bullying). And since i mentioned vibes - you seem sensible enough to sense people vibes (even on the internet) - so I'd take it that's how you figured that out - as their vibes where on same level (nobody was helpless/innocent - quite the contrary - some were "posing as victim" - while spreading venom from that position).

PS.I started writing this around half hour ago - but got interrupted.

posted May 16, 2014 05:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
We can't change this forum, just adapt or leave; Randall has been consistent about that.

---

The other topic was closed, so - I didn't got the chance to reply back - and explain myself further (clear some misunderstandings). I can stand by those words - since it's not just a personal truth - based on recent events (or something like that), but a truth that's based on almost 2 years of empirical observation (and in all that time - i didn't have any quarrels with the subjects in question). There was more to be said - for those interested, as - I'm also aware of a "practical solution (one that can be proven)" to most of this forums problems - even the ones revolving around moderation (you learn a thing or two - after more than a decade and 53 forums) - or the ones mentioned in this topic (or other topics alike). A solution that's staring back at you (if you know where to look) - but for the same reason you mentioned above (which is true - a lesson I've learned the hard way while trying to make a difference) - i guess - what i have to say would be ditched from start. And that goes against a personal rule of mine - "don't waste your time trying to help the ones that don't want to be helped - not only that they won't appreciate it - they might even spit in your face for trying (another lesson i've learned the hard way)". That being said - "live and let live" - i can do that too.

posted May 16, 2014 05:34 PM            

Well, I just get the sense that you have a lot of unresolved issues about bullying and it would help you to deal with those.

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posted May 16, 2014 05:37 PM            

I will give an example. If my ego is weak and someone attacks me, as happens in any community, even the most pristine ones, I will take it personally and attack back.

If my ego is strong, I will ignore or say some cool comment and walk away.

If the person won't stop harassing me, I will stand up and they will regret it, most likely.

However, this is all MY learning curve.

I can say it is the "fault" of the person/people, but it is my job to learn to deal with people because there are all sorts of jerks in every community and in life.

No community can be sanitized unless it is total shut down community where there are no real life interactions like a mental institution

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posted May 16, 2014 05:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
The bullying accusation I haven't seen being thrown at you, but quite some other stuff in the heat of the fight. Like going after someone, being manipulative, etc.

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Pshaw! Aquaguy didn't understand something I said and got angry. It was truly based on a misunderstanding. I thought it was funny that he lost his cool...when he does, he REALLY goes for broke. LOL

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
Just... both parties have a share in it. So I don't like people suddenly backing out and saying things like that LL members are ganging up on them.

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I think ganging up sort of happens naturally when people just agree that a negative aspect about a person exists; it becomes part of the dialogue, almost inevitably. Like I'm kinda belligerent sometimes, and here we have a thread discussing my tendencies along these lines...I don't perceive it as ganging up when people allude to my being this way. I AM this way. So there's no reality check or hurt feelings, it's just...

This is me. Kinda mouthy now and then. I do try to be very deliberate with my words but...with out of bounds Gemini Mars trine 3H Pluto, ASC on the Mars-Pluto MP...people are going to notice that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by meissieri:
It feels to me sometimes as if you, Kerosene or others are made to be this big bad wolf just because you/he/they replied and were blunt about it.

---

Kero's just a kid. Clever guy, a bit hot under the collar sometimes, drunk sometimes, whatever...we all saw the same things. He can't be changed by gossip.

Like DF said, it doesn't really bother me...I trust others' judgement, though I understand that others cannot know all the history of the contention between myself and Ami. Maybe things will get clearer in time? Or maybe not? Welcome to the jungle...I mean, forum life.

Keep your head up.