posted November 26, 2014 04:33 AM            

This is about my fiancé. He had a hard youth in a war zone and some bad things happened.His brother and him nearly got killed. His mother died later on. A few friends got shot. This was about 20-25 years ago. Later on in life his then gf cheated on and left him and he's been very open about it saying that it broke his heart for nearly 3 years.

I have started seeing patterns of him, very subtly, manipulating circumstances when he feels I am getting too close or too far away but he is always pulling the strings. There are other signs too but I want to hear some simple explanations so I understand.

Thank you!

posted November 26, 2014 07:15 AM            

From what I understand, and in an absurdly simple reduction. People with BPD, have not developed emotionally, they are still 3, 4, 5, 9, 12. Whatever age they were when they encountered whatever trauma caused the prevention of their emotional development.

With this in mind, if you take an adult, with all the real world responsibilities, and knowledge they will possess, and couple it with a person who is, for all intents and purposes, emotionally a child. Well that's not easy. The area easiest to see is close personal relationships. These are extremely difficult for people with BPD. In some cases, they associate giving love with hurt, or receiving love with hurt.

Anyway, please read the following site, it is a wonderful source and highly insightful. There are also plenty of blogs written by people who have BPD, and some whom are working on resolving their BPD issues. There are also those written by people who are with a BPD partner.
http://www.mjtacc.com/frameset.html?rwhatitis.html~mainFrame

posted November 26, 2014 09:17 AM            

BPD is very push/pull. This may be the hardest thing.

They are very afraid you will leave them. They act really angry if you have any independence.

They try to hurt and demean you and to undermine your self worth so you won't leave them.

They have a very, very weak self and it is very sad.

Why don't you put up his chart. Include Dejanira, Madhatter and maybe some others I will try to think of

Maybe Alice, too.

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 09:17 AM            

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 09:31 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Chart wise--does he have dejanira conj the Moon. I see this as a classic marker in the chart.

BPD is very push/pull. This may be the hardest thing.

They are very afraid you will leave them. They act really angry if you have any independence.

They try to hurt and demean you and to undermine your self worth so you won't leave them.

They have a very, very weak self and it is very sad.

Why don't you put up his chart. Include Dejanira, Madhatter and maybe some others I will try to think of

Maybe Alice, too.

---

posted November 26, 2014 09:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
See which asteroids conj Jupiter.

---

He only has Neptune conj Jupiter.

posted November 26, 2014 09:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
BPD is complicated, it has to do with their developmental years as children. Where their views of themselves and others was profoundly affected.

From what I understand, and in an absurdly simple reduction. People with BPD, have not developed emotionally, they are still 3, 4, 5, 9, 12. Whatever age they were when they encountered whatever trauma caused the prevention of their emotional development.

With this in mind, if you take an adult, with all the real world responsibilities, and knowledge they will possess, and couple it with a person who is, for all intents and purposes, emotionally a child. Well that's not easy. The area easiest to see is close personal relationships. These are extremely difficult for people with BPD. In some cases, they associate giving love with hurt, or receiving love with hurt.

Anyway, please read the following site, it is a wonderful source and highly insightful. There are also plenty of blogs written by people who have BPD, and some whom are working on resolving their BPD issues. There are also those written by people who are with a BPD partner.
http://www.mjtacc.com/frameset.html?rwhatitis.html~mainFrame

---

posted November 26, 2014 09:55 AM            

That is it! It is the single hardest placement in the entire chart imo

It is not his fault!

It is easy to think he can "help it" but he really can't imo

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 10:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Yes to Deja conj Moon. Tight orb.

That is it! It is the single hardest placement in the entire chart imo

It is not his fault!

It is easy to think he can "help it" but he really can't imo

[/B]

---

posted November 26, 2014 10:37 AM            

It is just awful. I think of all the pain people have--poverty, abuse etc etc

I think BPD is one of the worst. It feels soooooo awful for the person.

For others, it is awful, too.

When I see Moon conj Deja in the chart, I CRINGE because I know what I will find.

To me, God can heal anything and this would not be the exception but short of that, I don't see much hope imo

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 10:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
YES

It is just awful. I think of all the pain people have--poverty, abuse etc etc

I think BPD is one of the worst. It feels soooooo awful for the person.

For others, it is awful, too.

When I see Moon conj Deja in the chart, I CRINGE because I know what I will find.

To me, God can heal anything and this would not be the exception but short of that, I don't see much hope imo

---

I mean, he does things that.......makes ME question MY sanity And my intuition is STRONG, but he keeps messing with my intuitive tentacles with his imaginary things.

posted November 26, 2014 10:57 AM            

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 11:06 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Are we talking borderline personality disorder or bipolar?

---

BPD is Borderline

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 11:36 AM            

------------------
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posted November 26, 2014 11:55 PM            

quote:

---

how someone with SEVERE BPD might behave in a close relationship? The dynamics of it all.

---

This is what I know about it, from what I've read and from my own experience...

First of all men who suffer from BPD are very commonly misdiagnosed. They generally find out on their own that they have this, through research. Or, alternatively - their friends/family find out, again through their own research - online or through books/videos... often not from a professional psychologist.

One common misconception about BPD (but there are MANY out there!!) is that it is similar to or - often co-occurs with - NPD.
In reality it co-occurs 20% of the time, which is not all the time.
There are a bunch of negative articles, blog posts, forum posts etc. out there sometimes from people close to someone who has BPD, and sometimes from psychologists - that are highly misguided and full of exaggerated and frightening so-called "facts". This is an extremely misunderstood illness and there is a huge stigma attached to it.
I am very appalled at articles out there that will literally write paragraph after paragraph in reference to "BPD and NPD". They will say things like "The BPD/NPD partner bla bla bla"... when these are completely different disorders. A person with BPD does have empathy issues, but they do not lack empathy - and they are very aware of their own flaws and shortcomings. This is the reason why many go out and seek help - because the last thing they want is to hurt the people they care most about.

Another misconception is that "compulsive lying" is a trait of BPD. This was not at all the case in my experience, and in many cases I've read about. It is definitely NOT one of the official symptoms of BPD to lie compulsively.
The person I know who has BPD was very honest with me at all times. This is something I can't fault him with. He is more honest than most people I know who have no mental illness.

A third misconception that particularly angers me... is that people with BPD have no desire to heal and that they would deny their problem.
MANY (so MANY - you can find them on youtube) people who suffer form this are aware of it. After a chain of negative experiences with psychologists, because they are often unnecessarily medicated for bipolar or unnecessarily hospitalised, and a chain of painful/hurtful experiences in close relationships.. they often figure out by themselves that they fit the criteria for BPD.
They have a strong desire to get better and heal. In fact they are in so much pain emotionally - they would do anything to heal. They would prefer to be physically tortured than have this disorder, because it feels *that* bad.
I can give you links to videos where people who have this talk about it, if you like.
The biggest problem is... it's actually really difficult to find psychologists who have experience with BPD and who practice dialectical behavioural therapy (which has been shown to be successful). Also, therapy can be expensive and not everyone can afford it. There are at least two people who *had* BPD (past tense) I know of... who both have free websites with free information on how they healed and advice for others with BPD. They both mention how important it is to be informed and read books on dialectical behavioural therapy, for those hundreds of BPD-sufferers out there who cannot find or afford proper therapy.

People often have the conception that the individual with mental illness (or with a drug-addiction) simply needs to recognise that they have a problem and get help for the problem. But it's not so simple, when you don't have access to the kind of help you need, even if you want it. That's the sad part.

A fourth misconception is that BPD always stems from childhood abuse or trauma. There are people out there who have BPD and who were abused. But this is not always the case. There are different theories on the causes of BPD.. but this is the theory that made the most sense to me.

Basically, there is probably a genetic pre-disposition to being hypersensitive (on an emotional level) in kids who eventually develop BPD. So the genetic predisposition is not *to* BPD as such... but *to* hypersensitivity. The child is born with this emotional hypersensitivity. At that point they -may- or -may not- develop BPD depending on their environment. If their environment feels invalidating, they do not receive the kind of emotional support they need from their parents/family - and as a result, they acquire highly *ineffective* emotional coping mechanisms. They basically feel unheard and abandoned by the mother (and family more generally).
A really good analogy I read about ... was that - they are like a "swan born into a family of ducks". The ducks treat the swan like they are just another duck... but actually, due to their hypersensitivity they are different and require much more attention than the average "duck".

When it comes to the actual symptoms - the things you would actually witness and experience when you're in a relationship with someone who has this - they are varied, but I can pinpoint maybe three that I believe are very common. I guess they are all intertwined.. but I'll explain them separately.

One is black/white thinking. The person with BPD can really split people in black and white. This disorder has a spectrum.. so these symptoms can range from mild to severe. They can happen all day every day.. or more rarely, like every few months.
What I mean by black/white thinking is... initially they might have a very positive impression of someone, mainly when they are falling in love. They will see the person as an angel and all kinds of good. Then, as soon as that person displays behaviour they might find upsetting, they paint them black - and see them in a very negative light. This can happen very rapidly which becomes confusing for the other person. So in the morning they might be telling you - you are the person of their dreams and they want to marry you and have kids.. and two hours later when you say or do something they don't like - they will tell you to leave.. they never want to see you again.. etc.
This can go - on and on- if they are not being treated. My understanding is that even after treatment, this kind of thinking doesn't really change. This is what I have read directly from people who have or had BPD (not from their psychologists).
But through learning better ways to cope with their emotions and generally stand back and introspect - rather than instantly *judge* a situation as good or bad - they can learn to have healthier relationships with those around them.

Two is a strong fear of abandonment, bordering on paranoia.
This is actually the most painful part of BPD. The person has very deep-rooted insecurities and trust issues. They believe no one is to be trusted. Everyone can basically disappear and leave them or betray them. Falling in love is very frightening for them. My ex referred to all of his past relationship experiences by saying "Their masks fell off". He truly believed that all of these women wore a mask, were deceptive and eventually hurt him when their mask fell off.
At the same time ^ he was aware of having BPD so he knew this thinking was unrealistic.. but he couldn't help his spontaneous perspective on things.
It's kind of like when you have a debilitating anxiety, and you might have the intellectual awareness that there is no reason to be scared - but you still *react* if exposed to the thing causing you anxiety.
He often told me he does not control his insecurities and he feels as though they control him. This reminds me of anxiety as well..
You can be the most intelligent, reasonable person - but if you have a phobia of spiders, you won't want to be near one. You can have experts telling you the spider is not poisonous and would never hurt you - and you could understand this with your head... but being around a spider would still trigger your anxiety.
You could say about people with BPD that they have a phobia to being abandoned - and they would do anything to avoid it, including putting up walls, manipulating, yelling, screaming, accusing people, dumping you before you get to dump them - and generally behaving like they are on an emotional roller-coaster ride.

The smallest things (things that would never even cross your mind!) can be interpreted as a threat of abandonment.
For instance, if you make a remark jokingly teasing - he (or she) could take it as a sign that maybe you have a negative opinion of them and don't truly love them - hence you might abandon them. Their threshold is very low.
They can tie just about anything to -possible abandonment.
When this happens, they are triggered and they can react *very* badly, because they are not in control of their emotions.

I have to go at the moment.. but I'll come back and continue...

Hope this helps!

posted November 27, 2014 10:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
This is what I know about it, from what I've read and from my own experience...

First of all men who suffer from BPD are very commonly misdiagnosed. They generally find out on their own that they have this, through research. Or, alternatively - their friends/family find out, again through their own research - online or through books/videos... often not from a professional psychologist.

One common misconception about BPD (but there are MANY out there!!) is that it is similar to or - often co-occurs with - NPD.
In reality it co-occurs 20% of the time, which is not all the time.
There are a bunch of negative articles, blog posts, forum posts etc. out there sometimes from people close to someone who has BPD, and sometimes from psychologists - that are highly misguided and full of exaggerated and frightening so-called "facts". This is an extremely misunderstood illness and there is a huge stigma attached to it.
I am very appalled at articles out there that will literally write paragraph after paragraph in reference to "BPD and NPD". They will say things like "The BPD/NPD partner bla bla bla"... when these are completely different disorders. A person with BPD does have empathy issues, but they do not lack empathy - and they are very aware of their own flaws and shortcomings. This is the reason why many go out and seek help - because the last thing they want is to hurt the people they care most about.

Another misconception is that "compulsive lying" is a trait of BPD. This was not at all the case in my experience, and in many cases I've read about. It is definitely NOT one of the official symptoms of BPD to lie compulsively.
The person I know who has BPD was very honest with me at all times. This is something I can't fault him with. He is more honest than most people I know who have no mental illness.

A third misconception that particularly angers me... is that people with BPD have no desire to heal and that they would deny their problem.
MANY (so MANY - you can find them on youtube) people who suffer form this are aware of it. After a chain of negative experiences with psychologists, because they are often unnecessarily medicated for bipolar or unnecessarily hospitalised, and a chain of painful/hurtful experiences in close relationships.. they often figure out by themselves that they fit the criteria for BPD.
They have a strong desire to get better and heal. In fact they are in so much pain emotionally - they would do anything to heal. They would prefer to be physically tortured than have this disorder, because it feels *that* bad.
I can give you links to videos where people who have this talk about it, if you like.
The biggest problem is... it's actually really difficult to find psychologists who have experience with BPD and who practice dialectical behavioural therapy (which has been shown to be successful). Also, therapy can be expensive and not everyone can afford it. There are at least two people who *had* BPD (past tense) I know of... who both have free websites with free information on how they healed and advice for others with BPD. They both mention how important it is to be informed and read books on dialectical behavioural therapy, for those hundreds of BPD-sufferers out there who cannot find or afford proper therapy.

People often have the conception that the individual with mental illness (or with a drug-addiction) simply needs to recognise that they have a problem and get help for the problem. But it's not so simple, when you don't have access to the kind of help you need, even if you want it. That's the sad part.

A fourth misconception is that BPD always stems from childhood abuse or trauma. There are people out there who have BPD and who were abused. But this is not always the case. There are different theories on the causes of BPD.. but this is the theory that made the most sense to me.

Basically, there is probably a genetic pre-disposition to being hypersensitive (on an emotional level) in kids who eventually develop BPD. So the genetic predisposition is not *to* BPD as such... but *to* hypersensitivity. The child is born with this emotional hypersensitivity. At that point they -may- or -may not- develop BPD depending on their environment. If their environment feels invalidating, they do not receive the kind of emotional support they need from their parents/family - and as a result, they acquire highly *ineffective* emotional coping mechanisms. They basically feel unheard and abandoned by the mother (and family more generally).
A really good analogy I read about ... was that - they are like a "swan born into a family of ducks". The ducks treat the swan like they are just another duck... but actually, due to their hypersensitivity they are different and require much more attention than the average "duck".

When it comes to the actual symptoms - the things you would actually witness and experience when you're in a relationship with someone who has this - they are varied, but I can pinpoint maybe three that I believe are very common. I guess they are all intertwined.. but I'll explain them separately.

One is black/white thinking. The person with BPD can really split people in black and white. This disorder has a spectrum.. so these symptoms can range from mild to severe. They can happen all day every day.. or more rarely, like every few months.
What I mean by black/white thinking is... initially they might have a very positive impression of someone, mainly when they are falling in love. They will see the person as an angel and all kinds of good. Then, as soon as that person displays behaviour they might find upsetting, they paint them black - and see them in a very negative light. This can happen very rapidly which becomes confusing for the other person. So in the morning they might be telling you - you are the person of their dreams and they want to marry you and have kids.. and two hours later when you say or do something they don't like - they will tell you to leave.. they never want to see you again.. etc.
This can go - on and on- if they are not being treated. My understanding is that even after treatment, this kind of thinking doesn't really change. This is what I have read directly from people who have or had BPD (not from their psychologists).
But through learning better ways to cope with their emotions and generally stand back and introspect - rather than instantly *judge* a situation as good or bad - they can learn to have healthier relationships with those around them.

Two is a strong fear of abandonment, bordering on paranoia.
This is actually the most painful part of BPD. The person has very deep-rooted insecurities and trust issues. They believe no one is to be trusted. Everyone can basically disappear and leave them or betray them. Falling in love is very frightening for them. My ex referred to all of his past relationship experiences by saying "Their masks fell off". He truly believed that all of these women wore a mask, were deceptive and eventually hurt him when their mask fell off.
At the same time ^ he was aware of having BPD so he knew this thinking was unrealistic.. but he couldn't help his spontaneous perspective on things.
It's kind of like when you have a debilitating anxiety, and you might have the intellectual awareness that there is no reason to be scared - but you still *react* if exposed to the thing causing you anxiety.
He often told me he does not control his insecurities and he feels as though they control him. This reminds me of anxiety as well..
You can be the most intelligent, reasonable person - but if you have a phobia of spiders, you won't want to be near one. You can have experts telling you the spider is not poisonous and would never hurt you - and you could understand this with your head... but being around a spider would still trigger your anxiety.
You could say about people with BPD that they have a phobia to being abandoned - and they would do anything to avoid it, including putting up walls, manipulating, yelling, screaming, accusing people, dumping you before you get to dump them - and generally behaving like they are on an emotional roller-coaster ride.

The smallest things (things that would never even cross your mind!) can be interpreted as a threat of abandonment.
For instance, if you make a remark jokingly teasing - he (or she) could take it as a sign that maybe you have a negative opinion of them and don't truly love them - hence you might abandon them. Their threshold is very low.
They can tie just about anything to -possible abandonment.
When this happens, they are triggered and they can react *very* badly, because they are not in control of their emotions.

I have to go at the moment.. but I'll come back and continue...

Hope this helps!

:edit:
I'm glad that Brandon Marshall - football player for Chicago Bears came out saying he has BPD and is receiving treatment for it, and getting better. It means a lot, since BPD so often brushed under the carpet - especially for men.
It's good to have a real person coming out saying they have this - to give people a more realistic take on things... as opposed to the typical "Girl Interrupted"- media portrayal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Marshall
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/h otread140707/chicago-bears-brandon-marshall-spreads-awareness-nfl-mental-health-crisis-espn-magazine

---

Thank you for taking the time! I have a clearer picture now and my fiancé is displaying many of the things you have mentioned! He has gotten worse the past 2 weeks and I am frustrated. I THINK he senses my Uranian disposition (I am 75 % uranian and rest mercury) and he is Saturnine...we have Saturn opp. Uranus. The more he panics, the more I want to break free. Then he shuts down only to ask for forgiveness later on but then I am dealing with my confusion.. It's very hard for me but I know it's equally hard and frustrating for him.

posted February 21, 2015 08:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by elixir:
I know that asteroids are interpreted with a very small orb, but I have dejanra rx 8 degrees from my moon(it is moving away). I also have Alice right on my NN in the same sign, and madhatter is on my angel/kaali conjunction, trine my mc. I have been reading about BPD and it sounds a lot like me in a way, but I manifest it more mildly. I grew up in a VERY dysfunctional household and when I pointed that out, I was always attacked and gained up on. I don't feel I was born with something out of place, but yeah, you do start to think you are crazy and begin to blame and hate yourself. It becomes hard to trust people when those who are the closest to you treat you that way.

---

Alice protects you because she is very rational. I have it conj my Merc, exact.

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