posted February 25, 2015 10:51 AM            

If you have to be jealous in order to show other people, your partner that you "care" about your relationship then clearly you shouldn't be in one. That reeks of immaturity from a person who clearly lives off of the verification or validation from others and is unaware of how relationship dynamics work. How exactly are you protecting it by showing off your weakness, that weakness being that you're jealous? That makes it more prone to negativity and problem. Confidence and trust is all of the protective gear you need. Seek happiness from within, haters are always gonna hate.

Good, healthy relationships are built on trust, communication and love. If you have to add jealousy to that equation then it is your problem, not your partners. There is no going around it, jealousy is insecurity extreme or not. Insecurity is uncertainty and lack of confidence about oneself. Jealousy is a personal issue that shouldn't affect anyone else except for the jealous person. Why should another be punished or suffer the consequence of it because the uncertain person without confidence feels just that? No one should have too. It is a personal problem that should be dealt with personally.

posted February 25, 2015 11:23 AM            

In romantic relationships what makes comparisons difficult is that people actually often mean very different things when they talk about jealousy. Some claim not to be jealous at all, only "territorial", while others (me included) would see that as just another form of (or just another word for) jealousy; some are jealous of the ex, or of the feelings their lover once had for the ex, while others (like me) would not mind their partner maintaining close friendships with exes because after all, their love ended for some reason - and instead, pay much closer attention to a hypothetical new woman friend of their partner if she should seem to fascinate him unduly, and wonder why he's so into her. This need not mean one hates that other person, distrusts the partner, or anything like that; it can also mean being realistic about human nature and about a current situation in one's relationship, as it's normal that the connection will over time go through a few transformations. It doesn't mean either that one needs to act upon such a feeling of alertness in any way. However, I would feel I would be deceiving myself if I caught myself feeling that way and not call it some form of jealousy.

Some people I've known who said they were not jealous at all don't mind sharing their partner sexually, but can still be frustrated and even intensely hurt if that partner, as a consequence of his new fling, has less and less interest in them, is not available for talking to them as much as before because of an increasing fascination with the other person, or what not. That would also be a form of jealousy to me, which I would also find quite natural.

Overall I have difficulty painting such feelings of jealousy as described above as either bad or unnatural. Like many other human emotions they are just there, from time to time, with very many people. The question is how one decides to deal with them, and to which degree they are actually caused by external stimuli, and which part is a result of deep-seated insecurities or bad experiences in the past. On these internal causes one can certainly work in order not to let jealousy steer one's reactions. But to rid oneself entirely of any such emotion of feeling bad when neglected by someone one cares for, or when getting the shorter end of the deal? Perhaps that's possible in some cases, but hardly "normal".

posted February 25, 2015 11:56 AM            

Jealousy is common but "normal" I may have to draw a line.
If jealousy is normal and healthy, which I've been jealous, then why do I hate it so much? Why does it drive me crazy and make me miserable any time I feel it in any amount?
Anytime that I or who I was with displayed jealousy it was never good. Not once. I've always hated it from others and from myself.

posted February 25, 2015 12:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I think:

Jealousy is common but "normal" I may have to draw a line.
If jealousy is normal and healthy, which I've been jealous, then why do I hate it so much? Why does it drive me crazy and make me miserable any time I feel it in any amount?
Anytime that I or who I was with displayed jealousy it was never good. Not once. I've always hated it from others and from myself.

I think a person can use anything, good or bad, to motivate them towards a goal and help with creating goals if we choose to. But I think I'd rather just not deal with jealousy.
It's a miserable feeling and annoying when others display it.

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I agree with this^. However, I think acknowledging that jealous feelings are there (in whatever form) may be the basis for overcoming them in the first place (or rather, for learning to deal with it in the best possible way rather than be driven by it, and over time, weakening the feelings to the point of dissolution). Because, let's face it, sometimes the sentiment is entirely justified. If your husband or wife suddenly starts to be fascinated with someone else (even against their own will, as this happens involuntarily often enough) this can indeed signal the end of the relationship. Suppressing the jealousy in such a case may be tantamount to closing the eyes before an ugly truth - that one's relationship is in trouble. But this doesn't mean one has to go into a rage, kill somebody (or oneself), or feel sad and worthless. Rather, it means one has noticed a change and can start analyzing its meaning, and hopefully, make the necessary changes to overcome the problem.

posted February 25, 2015 01:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
But in any case I agree one should not display jealousy outwardly, and force others to deal with it (as this often does more harm than good and drives people even farther away).

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posted February 25, 2015 01:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
I know this is about jealousy in a romantic context but wanted to say that the most intense displays of jealousy I've seen have invariably been between siblings while growing up. And, who wouldn't feel bad when a sibling is being given more food, better care, more love, bigger birthday gifts etc.? I feel it would be strange to tell a sad and jealous kid in such a case that it should stop feeling sorry for itself and see that it's only insecurity getting the better of it. Rather, I would see it as a healthy reaction to parental neglect. In fact I think the reason feelings of jealousy are so deeply ingrained in the psyche of most humans is because this is actually important for survival. In ensures one get's one's fair share in the family's resources. Therefore, I agree with Aquaguy that some amount of jealousy is probably very natural, at least in a certain context.

In romantic relationships what makes comparisons difficult is that people actually often mean very different things when they talk about jealousy. Some claim not to be jealous at all, only "territorial", while others (me included) would see that as just another form of (or just another word for) jealousy; some are jealous of the ex, or of the feelings their lover once had for the ex, while others (like me) would not mind their partner maintaining close friendships with exes because after all, their love ended for some reason - and instead, pay much closer attention to a hypothetical new woman friend of their partner if she should seem to fascinate him unduly, and wonder why he's so into her. This need not mean one hates that other person, distrusts the partner, or anything like that; it can also mean being realistic about human nature and about a current situation in one's relationship, as it's normal that the connection will over time go through a few transformations. It doesn't mean either that one needs to act upon such a feeling of alertness in any way. However, I would feel I would be deceiving myself if I caught myself feeling that way and not call it some form of jealousy.

Some people I've known who said they were not jealous at all don't mind sharing their partner sexually, but can still be frustrated and even intensely hurt if that partner, as a consequence of his new fling, has less and less interest in them, is not available for talking to them as much as before because of an increasing fascination with the other person, or what not. That would also be a form of jealousy to me, which I would also find quite natural.

Overall I have difficulty painting such feelings of jealousy as described above as either bad or unnatural. Like many other human emotions they are just there, from time to time, with very many people. The question is how one decides to deal with them, and to which degree they are actually caused by external stimuli, and which part is a result of deep-seated insecurities or bad experiences in the past. On these internal causes one can certainly work in order not to let jealousy steer one's reactions. But to rid oneself entirely of any such emotion of feeling bad when neglected by someone one cares for, or when getting the shorter end of the deal? Perhaps that's possible in some cases, but hardly "normal".

However, I agree that jealousy of another's looks, accomplishments, happy relationship, etc. is something that's connected to the person's insecurities, and that this tendency to compare oneself to others in this way is not exactly healthy. That would be yet another form of jealousy. This one, I agree, one should try to overcome, which is certainly possible.

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posted February 25, 2015 02:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

How can you say this when you look at movements like feminism that were rooted in jealousy,expressed that jealousy, and got sh*t done as a result? I may catch flak for saying that but it's the truth. Feminism would have never started if women weren't jealous of men. And it's interesting that Dr.Sigmeund Freud talked about women having penis envy in the earlier part of the 20th century. During that period women were growing more and more unfulfilled in their roles and wanted more out of life so his words were true even though they may be seen as politically incorrect today. The point is jealousy is and can be healthy. Jealousy is the emotion that prompts us to stick up for ourselves and assert ourselves in relationships. I personally consider that very healthy.

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Aquaguy, I honestly don't think the original movement of feminism was in any way rooted in penis envy. Freud's theories have since been revisited, and most modern psychologists don't consider them the sacred truth any more, even though he may have made some good points - but reducing everything to a sexual level may be a bit much. But be that as it may, I think you're correct in saying these women wanted their due share - they wanted the same rights as other human beings (men) from which they were excluded. Voicing such concerns is of course a good thing, and in that way, this kind of "jealousy" which stemmed from being denied equal rights was a legitimate concern and it was correct to voice it.

posted February 25, 2015 02:34 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
Aquaguy, I honestly don't think the original movement of feminism was in any way rooted in penis envy. Freud's theories have since been revisited, and most modern psychologists don't consider them the sacred truth any more, even though he may have made some good points - but reducing everything to a sexual level may be a bit much. But be that as it may, I think you're correct in saying these women wanted their due share - they wanted the same rights as other human beings (men) from which they were excluded. Voicing such concerns is of course a good thing, and in that way, this kind of "jealousy" which stemmed from being denied equal rights was a legitimate concern and it was correct to voice it.

What I meant is, it's not useful to voice concerns that may not be the result of wrongdoing on the part of other persons, but entirely in one's own head. Example: if I feel jealous in the company of pretty young women and ask my partner to avoid such people at all costs, that would be infringing upon his right of free movement, not a legitimate concern of mine. The problem would be my own insecurity, and to blame the other women for being pretty or my partner for wanting a breath of fresh air without me at his side all the time would be asking too much, and would also not help me overcome the insecurity. That's how I meant it. Because in the end of the day, no matter how pretty, young or smart you are, one day you are bound to meet someone who's even prettier, younger, smarter, richer…you name it. One must learn to deal without letting this detract from one's sense of self-worth and this does not happen by asking others to indulge these kinds of feelings of worthlessness in oneself.

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posted February 25, 2015 03:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I think:

Jealousy is common but "normal" I may have to draw a line.
If jealousy is normal and healthy, which I've been jealous, then why do I hate it so much? Why does it drive me crazy and make me miserable any time I feel it in any amount?
Anytime that I or who I was with displayed jealousy it was never good. Not once. I've always hated it from others and from myself.

I think a person can use anything, good or bad, to motivate them towards a goal and help with creating goals if we choose to. But I think I'd rather just not deal with jealousy.
It's a miserable feeling and annoying when others display it.

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Exactly! Excellent point, babe.

That's why I brought up it, jealousy, being a PERSONAL issue, because it is. It makes the individual and those around that individual miserable. It's not something to be proud of or brag about, nor is it something that anyone should strive for especially when in a relationship. I don't understand how anyone can view it as healthy or that there's "healthy jealousy"... Since when is jealousy broken down into healthy or non-healthy forms, it's all one in the same.

Just because some experience it doesn't mean that those who haven't or refuse to waste any time on it aren't "normal" or are lying. What is "normal" anyway? We're all our own person with our own feelings and views, it's not all black or white.

posted February 25, 2015 04:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Exactly! Excellent point, babe.

That's why I brought up it, jealousy, being a PERSONAL issue, because it is. It makes the individual and those around that individual miserable. It's not something to be proud of or brag about, nor is it something that anyone should strive for especially when in a relationship. I don't understand how anyone can view it as healthy or that there's "healthy jealousy"... Since when is jealousy broken down into healthy or non-healthy forms, it's all one in the same.

Just because some experience it doesn't mean that those who haven't or refuse to waste any time on it aren't "normal" or are lying. What is "normal" anyway? We're all our own person with our own feelings and views, it's not all black or white.

Anyhoos, hope ya'll have a nice day. 👋👋

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posted February 25, 2015 05:24 PM            

Just because I am a happy person doesn't mean that I'm unaware of the bad or am unable to deal with it. I deal with life as it comes, I'm not living on a rainbow with cotton candy and unicorns. I'm one of the many here completely unafraid of speaking their minds, regardless of how it may be perceived. You seem to be trapped in this bubble of misery and are constantly looking to see if others feel the same as you, fortunately not many do. If you can't relate to it then it's not possible. That's not how life works. If you can't handle opposing opinions than perhaps it's not very wise to ask questions in which they may come about.

posted February 26, 2015 03:43 AM            

Personally, if I feel a bit jealous of someone, I kind of like it - because it soon turns into a feeling of respect for the other person. It means we're operating on a sort of similar wavelength, and then we can join forces and wreak havoc together instead of competing with each other. Basically I realize we're all different with unique paths and I'm glad someone can activate my sense of awe. o.O

posted February 26, 2015 01:00 PM            

I think it is perfectly natural to be jealous in certain circumstances. Any person that has been in a long term relationship, one that has had a chance to be tested, will have to deal with jealousy in one form or another at some point. Inevitably there will be someone from work or in your social circle that one person will attract or be attracted to. If the attraction is mutual, then there could be trouble. To feel jealous in this situation does not make you a bad person or insecure, it makes you human. I think a person that didn't feel jealous under those circumstances is either not very emotionally invested in their relationship, or is deluding themselves that their relationship is immune to potential infidelity. I think given the right circumstances that most people could find themselves in an affair, whether it's physical or emotional. In my opinion emotional cheating is just as damaging as physical cheating, in some cases it's worse. Some people are not as emotionally invested in their relationships, and if they were cheated on, they could move on easily. As a Scorpio, with Moon conjunct Pluto, and a packed 8th house, being cheated on by someone I love would be worse than death. I realize that flirting to a less emotionally involved person may not be seen as threatening, but realistically it can lead to an affair. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world, and people that love each other are capable of betraying one another. I have known so many people that have been cheated on that had absolutely no idea, because they blindly trusted the other person. I'm not saying that being jealous will prevent cheating, but if flirtations or suspicions are addressed openly rather than ignored, then it might not get to that level.

My point is that people should not be chastised for feeling an emotion that is perfectly human. I'm not referring to people that are jealous of every other person though, constantly accusing their significant other of cheating. In that case they need to check their own behavior and address their insecurities, or reevaluate if they can really trust the other person. That is not the same as feeling jealous if your significant other is flirting or being flirted with. I look at jealousy the same way I look at other so called negative emotions such as anger. Feeling angry when someone has wronged you in some way is a reasonable and human reaction to the situation. This is not the same as someone that is in a constant state of rage over every perceived slight and needs anger management. There's a big difference.

My response had nothing to do with being jealous of other people for how they look or what they have, because that's an entirely different subject. I was specifically referring to jealousy in relationships, which I think is normal given the right circumstances. No one should be made to feel guilty or be judged for being human and having emotions.

posted February 26, 2015 03:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
To answer the OP "in the context of romantic relationships".....

I think it is perfectly natural to be jealous in certain circumstances. Any person that has been in a long term relationship, one that has had a chance to be tested, will have to deal with jealousy in one form or another at some point. Inevitably there will be someone from work or in your social circle that one person will attract or be attracted to. If the attraction is mutual, then there could be trouble. To feel jealous in this situation does not make you a bad person or insecure, it makes you human. I think a person that didn't feel jealous under those circumstances is either not very emotionally invested in their relationship, or is deluding themselves that their relationship is immune to potential infidelity. I think given the right circumstances that most people could find themselves in an affair, whether it's physical or emotional. In my opinion emotional cheating is just as damaging as physical cheating, in some cases it's worse. Some people are not as emotionally invested in their relationships, and if they were cheated on, they could move on easily. As a Scorpio, with Moon conjunct Pluto, and a packed 8th house, being cheated on by someone I love would be worse than death. I realize that flirting to a less emotionally involved person may not be seen as threatening, but realistically it can lead to an affair. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world, and people that love each other are capable of betraying one another. I have known so many people that have been cheated on that had absolutely no idea, because they blindly trusted the other person. I'm not saying that being jealous will prevent cheating, but if flirtations or suspicions are addressed openly rather than ignored, then it might not get to that level.

My point is that people should not be chastised for feeling an emotion that is perfectly human. I'm not referring to people that are jealous of every other person though, constantly accusing their significant other of cheating. In that case they need to check their own behavior and address their insecurities, or reevaluate if they can really trust the other person. That is not the same as feeling jealous if your significant other is flirting or being flirted with. I look at jealousy the same way I look at other so called negative emotions such as anger. Feeling angry when someone has wronged you in some way is a reasonable and human reaction to the situation. This is not the same as someone that is in a constant state of rage over every perceived slight and needs anger management. There's a big difference.

My response had nothing to do with being jealous of other people for how they look or what they have, because that's an entirely different subject. I was specifically referring to jealousy in relationships, which I think is normal given the right circumstances. No one should be made to feel guilty or be judged for being human and having emotions.

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posted February 26, 2015 05:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
I think it is perfectly natural to be jealous in certain circumstances. Any person that has been in a long term relationship, one that has had a chance to be tested, will have to deal with jealousy in one form or another at some point. Inevitably there will be someone from work or in your social circle that one person will attract or be attracted to. If the attraction is mutual, then there could be trouble. To feel jealous in this situation does not make you a bad person or insecure, it makes you human. I think a person that didn't feel jealous under those circumstances is either not very emotionally invested in their relationship, or is deluding themselves that their relationship is immune to potential infidelity. I think given the right circumstances that most people could find themselves in an affair, whether it's physical or emotional

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I'm aware that's always a possibility, but so is fire, home invasion, earthquakes and tidal waves and so on. If there's a valid reason to believe those things are immanent then I take appropriate steps (and I also do things on the side so that I can hopefully be at least somewhat prepared should I get taken by complete surprise) but I don't live in fear of these things.

Same thing with cheating. I recognize the possibility but am just as/no more bothered by it as other possibilities.

Perhaps it's much harder for most people to keep it in their pants. I can see why someone who believes it very unlikely at best to keep it in their pants if there's any possibility of cheating but I wouldn't call that healthy or informed...but maybe I give my species too much credit. Usually when I'm wrong it's because I'm not cynical enough (so why does everyone keep telling me I'm TOO cynical?).

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
No one should be made to feel guilty or be judged for being human and having emotions.

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Btw, I don't judge people for having emotions, but rather how they act on them. I think it's silly to judge people for having feelings as we all struggle with them but there is such a thing as impulse control, right? Or is impulse control a lot rarer than I think?