posted April 20, 2015 03:00 PM            

What's your take on it and why?

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Many have suggested that NPD emerges from an environment in which vulnerability comes to feel dangerous, representing, at worst, either a grave defect, or at best, a stubborn barrier to becoming a worthwhile human being (that’s simplifying a great deal of research and theory, but it’s a workable summary); hence, the correlation between narcissism and insecure attachment styles, in which fears of depending on anyone at all engender constant attempts to control the relationship or avoid intimacy altogether. If you devote yourself to directing interactions or holding people at arms length, it’s a lot harder to become vulnerable (needless to say, the “safety” is largely an illusion). People with NPD have learned to ignore, suppress, deny, project, and disavow their vulnerabilities (or at least try) in their attempts to shape and reshape “who they are” in their interactions. Change—allowing the vulnerability back in— means opening up to the very feelings they’ve learned to avoid at all costs. It’s not that people with NPD can’t change; it’s that it often threatens their sense of personhood to try. And their failed relationships often confirm, in their minds, that narcissism is the safest way to live.

Put another way, narcissists can’t be narcissistic in a vacuum. They need the right audience in order to feel like a star, for example, so they often cultivate relationships with people who stick around for the show, instead of the person. Over time, as their perfect façade starts to slip, their constant fear that people will find them lacking becomes a horrifying reality. The very people who stuck around for the show lose interest when it ends—which merely convinces the narcissist they need to hide their flaws and put on a better show.

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The above quotes are excellent and so true.

posted April 20, 2015 03:31 PM            

Yes to the ability to change, given they have the proper resources and are willing to do it. The tough part is the willpower, getting the NPD patient to the point of wanting to change is tough. If you can get to the root cause, there is a much better prognosis for improving their mental health.

Yes to the second one, but extremely difficult to change if we are talking decades. Especially because of the second paragraph- identity and self-direction impairments, empathy and intimacy challenges, and grandiosity and attention seeking are all negative adaptations of those with NPD. Especially if the person exhibits splitting, their behaviors become so deeply ingrained that they seem normal to the person with NPD.

I've read a lot of research articles on NPD since my uncle is involved with this sort of research, so I'll post some of my findings later.

posted April 20, 2015 05:47 PM            

I'm infatuated with learning about the mind and how it works. I love reading and learning about all of the different personality disorders. Narcissism is one that I'm really interested in learning all that I can.

I'm not really sure what type he's discussing in the article, I think it's just narcissism as a whole.

I totally agree with this:

quote:

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Yes to the second one, but extremely difficult to change if we are talking decades. Especially because of the second paragraph- identity and self-direction impairments, empathy and intimacy challenges, and grandiosity and attention seeking are all negative adaptations of those with NPD. Especially if the person exhibits splitting, their behaviors become so deeply ingrained that they seem normal to the person with NPD.

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posted April 20, 2015 05:50 PM            

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Originally posted by florence:
At this point, it doesn't really matter if you are right or wrong ... Its not right to be so relentless against one person.

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Thanks Florence!

This is their fun. They think no one notices.

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posted April 20, 2015 05:52 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thanks Florence!

This is their fun. They think no one notices.

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posted April 20, 2015 05:55 PM            

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Originally posted by florence:
DF ..From the outside it doesn't look like that to me - I'm sure you've your own reasons but most of the time it looks like people want blood and this will never end till then.

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posted April 20, 2015 06:00 PM            

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Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Florence and Ami, I'd appreciate it if you didn't derail my thread. If you want to talk about how everyone gangs up on poor Ami or anything else that doesn't pertain to the subject take it somewhere else.

Thank you.

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cmon BarbieGirl, I don't know what's happened with you two (nor do I want to) but you're better than that.

posted April 20, 2015 06:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thanks Florence!

This is their fun. They think no one notices.

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We do?
That's news to me.
You're failing to ignore.
Plus, you fail big time when you LOOK like you're ignoring and email others about it.

posted April 20, 2015 07:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thanks Florence!

This is their fun. They think no one notices.

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Likely.

And no need to close a thread on my account, in

the future- I'm happy to hold my own.

As for the OP

The author considers the term "narcissist" to be just

another "trait label"-

Trait labels like narcissist, or the admittedly

less stigmatizing ones like extravert and introvert,

merely provide a short hand description.

... which I find strange, as well as misleading.

I didn't know that Extroversion (or Introversion, for

that matter!) was an illness.

He goes on to 'cite' Jung (in a completely unrelated

blurb about his opinion on extra/introversion) by

offering a link to amazon so I can buy the book, if

I would like to verify.

I don't agree that it is merely a "trait label."

In fact, I think that's a gross minimization of

the true nature of the illness (which can be

devastating for all parties involved).

Unless we really are trying to *cure* extroversion?

Please.

I don't think it's curable; not narcissism.

It may be manageable, at best, but I wouldn't put

money on it.

posted April 20, 2015 07:56 PM            

the future- I'm happy to hold my own.

OK, you will have to hold your own on here, as I think you have figured out by now, but it makes hair grow on your chest

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posted April 21, 2015 12:39 AM            

You most certainly are.

What else would you do with an illness?

Unless you suddenly believe Narcissism is a

character flaw (which would be barbaric)?

You can keep the personal insults, though.

I've found that people who incorporate them into

their posts are usually just deflecting because

they have no legitimate response.

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Nothing is permanent in this wicked world; not even our troubles.

posted April 21, 2015 10:45 AM            

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Originally posted by BellaFenice:
History seems to be repeating itself, hypocritically as usual. If the 3 of you have personal issues with us, make a thread in HH and summon me. Otherwise, it isn't right to derail the OP's thread aggressively and ruin it on purpose for your perceived biases.

Anyways, what topics of NPD do you want to discuss? I've got a bunch of studies and resources, I don't know where to begin!

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It's unfortunate but it's to be expected. Maturity fortunately has nothing to do with age. It's alright though. Thank you.

Anyways, I find articles or blog posts on NPD and religion to be really interesting. What do you think? Any area's fine really.

quote:

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Originally posted by Eirlys:
You most certainly are.

What else would you do with an illness?

Unless you suddenly believe Narcissism is a

character flaw (which would be barbaric)?

You can keep the personal insults, though.

I've found that people who incorporate them into

their posts are usually just deflecting because

they have no legitimate response.

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I hope you're done. All you ever seem to do is stir the pot by egging me on and I have to tell you that you should stop wasting your time and energy. I ignore you and your posts for a reason. Quit with the dramatics, if you're that offended because I asked why you use so many unnecessary breaks in your posts, which made me conclude that English may not be your first language, then you need to get a grip. This is an American based site with many foreign visitors and members. It was merely a question. Loosen those panties and relax a little bit. I can smell your nasty attitude over here. You spout off about personal insults and then insult me in return. Just stop it. I'm not going back and forth with you.

posted April 21, 2015 11:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Odette:
Barbie - I'm a supporter of distigmatizing mental illness, and have posted a lot on this topic on other forums - especially about bpd, since my ex has this. And he is really a very genuine person at heart.

That being said though, I think that people who haven't directly experienced a close relationship with someone who has a cluster B disorder (including NPD, BPD and sociopathy) are not aware of the "extent" of just how disturbing things can get.
I do believe that change is possible - with the right attitude, the right support, the right treatment and a dash of spiritual strength. But it is extremely difficult for them to change. It's like pulling teeth. It's worse than pulling teeth. So unfortunately for NPD the chances are so SO low.
For BPD they are higher, but the problem with BPD is that sufferers have next to no access to the only treatment that has proven truly helpful through research.
Even with treatment it takes them a few years, (at least 4/5) to reach an emotional floating line and not relapse.

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My Aunt (who's father's family has a history of mental illness), who is severely Bipolar type 1 has had several different brain surgeries to try to correct the "bad" in brain, is quite genuine at heart she's just so flawed that sometimes it's hard to see past any of the evil she's put herself and our family through. I do believe she is 100% a malignant narcissist as well.

I agree that change for them is extremely difficult especially for an older individual who's been such ways for decades. But it is possible! I personally believe they need many loved ones, supporters who aren't going to give up on them like they have themselves. If we hung on to that and didn't view mental illness or personality disorders as such alien, abnormal things we'd be that much closer to solving the many problems we have with them. We're going backwards instead of forward like we should be. We need more awareness and more education on them for those of us who aren't doctors.

posted April 21, 2015 02:15 PM            

This is doubly hard for people with "disorders' whether genetic, spiritual, or paradigmal. But we all come from a position we carry with us unless we have worked on understanding our thoughts rather than blaming it on others.

This dynamic is obvious in this thread. Some people think it is about them, others see insults where they aren't, and a simple conversation is turned into an argument.

By the same token anyone CAN change and in a way it is a choice even if one is crippled in some way. But it is harder for some than others. No one would choose NPD IF they could see their twisted paradigm, but often they cannot because they have never experienced life thru any other filter. While we may be born with a predisposItion it takes experience to reinforce it and often unconscious memories undermine the ability to change.