posted September 27, 2019 11:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
Interesting that you should bump this now. Yesterday, I saw an article with an alert to be careful when watching The Joker, in theatres. The alert came because of social media posts from incels, and was issued to members of the military.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/u-s-military-issues-warning-to-troops-about-incel-viol-18384123 31

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Thanks for sharing that article teasel . I was aware of the warning that was given out by the Military given what happened with that one loon who was inspired by the Joker to shoot up a Cinema.

However, the warning was sent out as a general precaution rather than based on a solid tip that something was going to happen. I have seen the new Joker movie since its debut at TIFF this year and I can say that it ain't for the faint of heart. But as Joaquin Phoenix said it best, its not the job of directors and creators to teach morality to the masses.

posted September 28, 2019 01:25 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Xodian:
Do you now see the dangers of such online communities existing and how they breed extremists like Minassian?

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Of course, and it's not just them.

Unfortunately, it's not only profitable to sell us guns, but to keep us angry. That makes us click and to spread it, and that makes them bank. And if it gets people to buy an AR-15 and go after the Tides Foundation, like Byron Williams well that's just the price of doing business.

Mix that in with those who castrastophize which is a lot. Sites for them and how it's beyond their control pop up all the time and suck people in. It's not just Incels, though they are are more dangerous segment who do this. If Incels could be helped to not catastrophize, so could so many other people who suffer who turn their hatred inward rather than outward. Of course Incels don't want us to "chadsplain" to them anymore than certain feminists want you to "mansplain" to them. The vocabulary itself is designed (like a programming language) to set up a worldview and discount other viewpoints (and it's not just Incels and feminists), setting up their own bubbles effectively outside the control of groups TRYING to put them into bubbles for control and profit (but will still try to exploit them rather than help them).

Speaking of catastrophizing, I remember even here on LL where I'd compliment someone and I'd get yelled at for "sarcasm." They imagined a tone that was not my intent. More often than not to point that out was to "invalidate" them. These weren't Incels mind you, just relatively ordinary people who catastrophized and made them probably even more unapproachable in real life than online.

Suicide among girls has risen dramatically since the internet. This is in part because of "girl on girl" violence online as they use it more to interact while boys focus on gaming (which interaction is secondary). What's worse is rather than being forgotten, the commments remain to be read again and again. As is human nature, if there's distance and a seeming pass from consequences, the more evil side will come out to play--especially against a rival tribe (I've seen preteen girls get vicious even over those who preferred Twilight or Harry Potter or over if Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus or Wizards of Waverly Place/Selena Gomez was best, but it's not more ridiculous than a lot of "burning issues" adults have online, such as between those who use pads or tampons, or Glocks vs Sig, motherhood vs childfree, and so many other things that shouldn't make people blow up but do). And often given Likes and thumbs up because people like drama, so that makes it feel even more true. Whereas an Incel might kill others (though they'll just kill themselves as well), girls are much more likely to that violence inward. The psychiatry industry owes much to the internet.

Also, online is different from real life in that the more extreme, aggressive, and over the top you are, the more reward you get with the Likes, forwarded, and all that. In real life there are many social cues in place to curb that. So not only are you not seeing a face to empathize with online, you're actually rewarded for being a ridiculous ******* . (And that's too bad because a lot of real problems become muddied or even automatically discounted. Men do face unique problems and terrible treatment in some ways just as women do. But because of the loudest voices, and the kinds of people they tend to be, the issue becomes poisoned before it can even be properly addressed in a meaningful way.)

'Course media and marketers try to put us into internet bubbles, adding to the growing loneliness as people forget how to actually socialize. And in those bubbles extreme views get formed that make them unapproachable to most other people, and catastrophizing (as Incels do) only make it all the worse.

You got an idea how to handle it? I sure don't. Their sites could be shut down but they'd move to the Dark Web where there is very little control (and the Dark Web itself can't be shut down without essentially collapsing society as we currently know it, though a solar flare will probably destroy it--via the satellites--for us one day which will cause wailing and gnashing of teeth as well as a multitude of disasters, and yet might prove to be a blessing in disguise).

The presence of Incels is a good way to scare and anger people, too, and Google and their ilk LOVE that. That keeps you glued, and the ad revenue making more money. Why would they shut them down? For the common good? Don't be ridiculous. The common good is Wall Street. At least here in the USA we'll literally cheer the Dow and GNP even though inflation is still giving us a lower standard of living (just another example of how thoughts shape reality, even in defiance of objective facts). So Incels are here to stay, at least until they become more unprofitable (in which case they move to the Dark Web, where I'm sure many already are on their "BlackBook" and like).

And the governments as well as the marketers don't give a damn about our well being, but how they can profit from us. And anger and alienation makes better consumers than those who are content and happy with their lives. The angry will spread articles that make them angry, and also comment inciting others to comment, and all that makes bank through ad revenues. Not that they control all of it, but they do what they can, and exploit the rest to the best of their ability.

Meanwhile, girls (and boys) will still be killing themselves, even if the Incels could be stamped out (in contrast, if Incels could learn to stop catastrophizing, imagine how the same techniques could help countless others who also do it).

Other studies found people on their phone all the time (that is internet) are more and more lonely. And they see all the pix people post of how good their lives supposedly are, and rather than realizing that these are but moments (and may even be completely fraudulent) the viewer on the phone is comparing to their own life and feeling like a loser for not having as much fun, as much toys, and as much real life friends.

Of course they can then go to commiserate with others who are also adversely affected by social media and/or enraged (as they're meant to be) by marketers and media wanting to keep people hooked, making them bank through ad revenues, and plenty of those groups seek out others. The Incels are just one such group, and there are some others remarkably similar to them in toxicity and alienating language that they bond themselves in (though most lack the homicidal nature of them).

I have personally found internet detoxes are necessary for mental health. When I was dealing with funeral and hospital dramas I found I had little time online and it was like the entire world looked VERY DIFFERENT. What is a big deal online just isn't in the real world.

posted September 28, 2019 01:36 AM            

I reviewed my comment history to find that for the most part it was encouragement or thanking someone, or giving an impartial explanation to a question, avoiding the flame wars. I politely emailed YT about it and got no response. Since then I took to finding other ways to contact creators to thank them or whatever. One was surprised and saddened that he could not see my comment--because I asked him if at least the creator could as well as myself--since there was so much hate and personal attacks allowed that he was thinking of disabling comments or even taking down the video, but mine wasn't allowed. But see, Google can't quite figure out which internet bubble to assign me to so they just removed me from the equation.

Cambridge Analytica has done a much better job in figuring people like me out, which is just one reason I won't do FaceBook, and though CA has officially been disbanded, I know their work continues, but that's another topic, though very much related to this one. To see more on marketing and how powerful it can be in society, much like any internet bubble, I highly recommend the documentary Century of the Self, and researching Cambridge Analytica and even seeing some of their public speeches in marketing their services. It's like a conspiracy theory, only it's all out in the open with no attempt to hide it, and they'll even advertise themselves.

I mention the above because marketing and propaganda has radically transformed entire societies in just a few decades when it used to take centuries (often with bloodbaths, wars, and martyrs) for any type of relevant change to come about. But now what took centuries takes mere decades, and the internet facilitates that but it's also creating more and more pocket universes out there that can't be controlled developing their own language and tribalism so that I'm finding it hard to keep up with all the new subgroups and trends popping up.