posted November 02, 2009 09:37 AM            

First, I want to start with the soulmate pairs asteroids. I guess that a lot of us have already looked at them in synastries. But what exactly does this show? That a couple is fated soulmates? Or even twin flames?
Actually, I would think that these aspects might not really necessarily show that a couple is soulmates/twin flames or not (or even being a couple or not), but rather about their masculine/feminine energies being complementary and attracted to each other's masculine/feminine energies or not. For example, if I have a lot of tight soulmate pairs aspects with someone, then our masculine/feminine energies would be complementary, which can generate attraction.

Of course, with many tight masculine/feminine complementary aspects, it does feel like fated romance. But I personally think that the signs that actually shows that a couple are fated (soulmates) are the aspects with asteroids Valentine, Union, Amor, Karma, Destinn (etc.), and specially the angles/node. Coz while the soulmate pairs asteroids can show if our masculine/feminine energies being complementary or not, these asteroids/angles/node can show fated love (since they are related to love, karma and destiny - also, the angles moves so fast that tight aspects like Valentine conjunct AC are really rare).
But well, even if these shows if a couple is fated soulmates in this current life time.. Then what about signs of past life soulmates or twin flames?

Well, past life soulmates and twin flames.. What exactly are these? Actually, this is the part that depends on what each of us believe - do you believe in the possibility of more than just one life time? Do you believe in the existence of twin flames? And what is twin flames for you?
But well, let's just simplify it for now lol. XP Let's say, if two people (whether romantic couples, friends or etc.) are soulmates or twin flames, then it means that they are spiritually linked, right? Then I would think that there should be spiritual aspects, like aspects to DNA, Spirit, Alma (means soul), Memoria (Memory), Angel, etc..

So, resuming..

- soulmate pair asteroids aspects - can show complementary/compatible masculine/feminine energies between two people.

- love/fate asteroids and angles/node - can show the possibility of two people being fated to meet or be a couple (in the current life time).

- spiritual asteroid aspects - can show the possibility of two people being spiritually linked with each other (for those who believe in the possibility of many life times).

But before ending, it makes me wonder.. what really is twin flame? In Lara's thread, it was explained (and if I understood it correctly) that we can have 0 or up to 12 twin flames in the same life time, and that twin flames (possibly 13 in total) are all from one same soul personality (which means one same soul?). We might or might not meet them, but if we do, then we would only be sexually involved with only one.
So this makes me wonder - what aspects should we look for to check if two people are twin flames? I'd think that if two twin flames are fated to meet and be romantically involved with each other, then all the aspects of the 3 types mentioned above should be there, right?
But then, what if we meet more than one twin flame? I'm not sure if it's possible, but then if only one is fated to be with me romantically, then what kind of aspect should I have with others (maybe just spiritual asteroids aspects?)?
But also.. what differs between soulmates and twin flames?

posted November 02, 2009 11:31 AM            

I love you. I really do. Just for posting this thread.

A HUGE

I agree totally with you. That is the reason that for myself I made up categories, containing Yin/Yang-asteroids, relationship asteroids, binding asteroids and fated asteroids (including planets and angles, too, of course) and also spiritual ones.

I am not COMPLETELY sure in each and every case which to look at and which can be left out.

But generally I think you are absolutely right here.

posted November 02, 2009 12:22 PM              

im not sure about twin flames either.at least,that we can find one through astrological placements.

but about soulmates?definately.im talking about true love soulmates for instance,that is the one i know as being my current bf.

i can tell you this:to see if someone is or not your SM..you must actually know it/fell it inside you. it is not a dreamy feeling,or romantic one,as if we were a teen dreaming with the heroic character of a perfect person.

by the contrary.you will know it.it is a powerful/binding energy that you feel torwards that person and the funny thing is that you will accept him/her like he is.you know the person isnt perfect,but infact,for you...it is!

from my experience it is much better to look at astrology only when you are with the person already,as a couple,at least for 3 or 4 months. that will make you only look at astrology as a curious tool where you will confirm what you are already feeling.

for me it was quite easy caus in my philosophie of life,it is more than natural that we live many times,with many of oyur Soul Families.and i was already having dreams.lucid ones that later confirmed me the lifes that me and my bf shared.

we have all those special conections that you talked but we are not twin flames.we are not the same soul.we are part of the same soul family and we are each otherīs our best true love soulmate.
that means that in this lifetime we choosed to experience true love.and it is meant for us to make it work.cause in other lifes we shared painful experiences that made us grow apart.and suffer.

soul mates can actually be happier together,more than twin flames.casue these ones,usually arent ready for each other,one runs away or dont want to live the relationship cause it is too powerful,and scary at the same time.

with true love soulmates,the bond is very binding,there are acceptance,love and caring between the two and usually,if one isnt ready,the other waits.the two come together again when both are ready.

in our case,it was easier cause we were already at a similar level of Soul Counsciousness.

posted November 02, 2009 02:38 PM            

Not only that, but often the random strangers have powerful luminary conjunctions in tropical synastry.

Here are my theories:

1) At the "soul" level, we are ALL connected. On both the soul level and in mundane, everyday life, each relationship/connection between two people is unique...and can manifest in several possible ways. I believe the ideas of "Soul Mates"/Twin Flames are often used to rationalize things, to fantasize that dynamics that ARE NOT HAPPENING in a real relationship (like reciprocation, or being a couple) are nonetheless fated on some "other level" or in past/future lives. I see this crude fatalism as very medieval and not intellectually or spiritually rich. It gives short shrift to the true miracle of each unique connection between two people.

2) Synastry doesn't show us how important the relationship is/will feel to us or the other person...just mathematically, we each have strong synastry with millions of people we aren't involved with, and most of us have weak-looking synastry with some people we care about deeply.

Real life shows us WHETHER and how a relationship is manifesting. (Details like, she is his elementary school teacher; or, he is her first husband.) Astrological aspects can be used to explore the dynamics that are likely to play out in the unique connection, within the context of the real-life relationship.

3) Synastry shouldn't be used to categorize and heirarchize ("this relationship is 'significant', this relationship is not.") It should be used, in conjunction with basic logic and observation, to explore the potential DYNAMICS of each relationship, not to rate its level of importance.

That said...this brings me to my thoughts on asteroids. Which a bunch of them, people (at least around here) seem only to use them to reflect the supposed predestiny of various romantic relationships, without showing much about how their dynamics really play out. The idea that the meaning we give them is the meaning they have, based on quantum physics...I'm not sure I buy it. With astronomical events that have been observed by astrologers for millenia, such as full moons and eclipses, we know that those events govern energies that cause people to act a certain way--ask any emergency room worker what happens during a full moon!! I don't think we have the same sort of assurance about your name asteroid "Jenny" conjuncting a stranger's draconic name asteroid "Petey," and therefore he's your Soul Mate...nevermind that Petey is not attracted to you.

As I've said in other threads, the fantasy/projection inherent in the category of "Soul Mate" or "Twin Soul" takes away the power of your love object to say NO and mean it...I write about this here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/003703.html

I think these ideas/heirarchies are keeping us from using case studies to learn more about how asteroids actually play out in real relationships. Another issue is that some of these ideas--such as "asteroid pairs," Eros and Psyche or whatever--are so divorced from observation of astronomical events that I'm really skeptical that they have the meaning we've been giving them.

posted November 02, 2009 02:59 PM            

For me, a twin soul connection is deeply spiritual on the highest plane possible for two souls in human bodies.

This is exactly what i am experiencing now - which is why i started my thread.

posted November 02, 2009 03:03 PM              

we are ALL ONE.that is also true.and at a more deepest level than waht you think of...we are all conected at a soul level BUT

Each one of us have the so-called Group of Soul Families.

if you take your group cases,and you have their family and close friends and lovers charts,you will clearly find there,tight conections,but not in the tropical,also specially in the Dracos.
the dracos are the ones which directs you to the Soul Level.

mathematically speaking try to do the maths and you will find cases that are clearly not coincidence.and you must note that it only "works" if you look at people born away from each other from at least 6 mnths.asteroids move slowly so you cannot validate the aspects if they were born close.

you will find exact cj of a special asteroid with one+s angles for example.

we who know some more indepth realities,which not the one we are living in,also know that our Soul choosed to meet one soul and not another one for example...the strangers who dont come across our path,are ones that we didnt choosed to meet.they arent relevant to our choices in this lifetime.
that is why,you can only take into consideration,the charts of people we actually meet and toutch...

the fact that a random stranger can have a tight valentine/ac conj with me doestn make him my soulmate,but i know that the one i KNOW it is my soulmate,have several tight asteroid/angles/luminaries with me.

for something to be true,doesnt necessarily needs to be proved.

IT JUST IS...

what you can choose to do ( which was what i did) was try to know more of our PAST.it might be a painful thing at times,but it is a very helping thing,cause it helps us understand our uncounscious behaviours/wounds/patterns.

i dont believe that the twin flames/soulmate labels are erroneous or illusive...we all look for the same:LOVE.

what is the matter of having Faith?it is at the same level as LOVE really...and what more loving bonding can it exist,than the ones of twin/soulmate?

posted November 02, 2009 03:14 PM            

I like your thoughts Comica on the Angles and Nodes being important in Synastry with Asteroids because you are right they would be very rare and therefore would mean much more.

And I also like your take on looking at more spiritual asteroids when considering the possiblity of a twin flame.

What do you think about Isis, Osiris and Horus with the Twin Flame notion, assuming that one believes in Twin Flames, I have found in my more "spiritual" relationships, as well as in the charts of those I have done, that they seemed to play heavily in the Synastry of relationshiops that my clients viewed as the "most" significant, in hte there lives.....And being representations of the Divine Feminne and Masculine, I would imagine that they would show up in your fiindings as well.

posted November 02, 2009 03:18 PM            

quote:

---

let's say you currently love someone and choose to spend your time with them in this life....but they currently DO NOT choose to spend their time with you.

I think saying, "Maybe it was our Soul Path to be connected and together in Another Lifetime instead of now...." or "We are Twin Flames but we turned against each other" is kind of a psychic exploitation/invasion of that person.

It takes away his or her power to say "NO, I DON'T WANT YOU" and to mean it...or even to feel neutral about you and bow away gracefully. It is you deciding that no matter what that person thinks, feels, or says, or how that person acts, you have some special ability to see the fate of his soul, either through asteroid conjunctions or some other way.

That's why even if it's kept secret and never ladders into stalking, this kind of thinking reminds me of delusional disorders like Erotomanic Delusional Disorder, where the disordered person believes that the object of his/her fixation cannot communicate his/her love, but instead is sending signs.

I just don't like the whole business. I feel like even when we don't know about it, if some creep is fixated on us we can pick it up unconsciously and we experience its weight. And this "Twin Flame" idea encourages disordered and delusional thinking...

I find the idea of meeting someone and falling in love (whether it's love at first sight, or a sudden, thrilling realization that you are in love) waaaaay more romantic and exciting than the idea of soul mates or twin flames.
The idea of everything being fixed and predetermined like that seems sort of medieval in a bad way, like literal interpretations of stale and badly-translated religious texts. It seems very backward and flat-earther to me, and more desperate than romantic...although I am delighted for anyone who falls in love, however they want to describe it!

It's just lame when people look for it in a map of "the heavens" based on the time each person drew his/her first breath. If you fall in love with someone, YAY! If you fantasize that you are "meant to be" with someone who's nursing a deeper attraction to someone else and has your number blocked on his cell phone...or you think you share a special soul bond with a celebrity who is a stranger...it's NOT romantic IMO, even if your asteroids are tightly conjunct his draconic asteroids.

I'm fine with saying, "I FEEL so close to her/him, like twin flames"...it's a nice metaphor. Sunchild's recent post "I'm in Love" was really romantic.

I hate the use of the idea of "Twin Flame" or "Soulmate" to pretty-up and rationalize rejections, betrayals, and relationships that suck, between people who can barely even talk to each other. If I DID believe in it, Twin Flames would be compatible folks who are honest with each other about everything, feel comfortable with each other, make being together (IN PERSON) their #1 priority, have lots of fun together and like sex with each other best. And they would never turn on each other.

---

Diandra, the problem with "faith" in this context is that many people use it to nurse a delusion/superstition rather than honor another person's choice not to be with them, or choice to be with someone else. It always seems to come with, "We've never met in person, but I know we're Meant to Be," or, "He has a girlfriend, but I know he's Meant to Be with me instead," or "He hasn't spoken to me for six months, only gives me strange looks and seems frightened of me, but that's because our Deep Connection is just So Intense."

posted November 02, 2009 03:27 PM            

quote:

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its like a roadway between the spiritual and the material.

---

posted November 02, 2009 03:34 PM            

I am living it and so,, because it is such a unique experience/feeling/love connection, i presume it is a one of a kind love.

posted November 02, 2009 03:43 PM            

"the fact that a random stranger can have a tight valentine/ac conj with me doestn make him my soulmate,but i know that the one i KNOW it is my soulmate,have several tight asteroid/angles/luminaries with me."

posted November 02, 2009 04:00 PM              

you knew what i meant! thank you!for understanding.

Lucia

I KNow what you are saying:i shared that same thing,that when a person uses the astrological insight to "excuse" a behaviour that is not healthy.we should not stalk someone who doesnt want to have a relatisnhip.we should not do that and i understand the danger in that.

but i wasnt talking about those situations really.i am talking about true loving and caring relationships,where you already are in love,together,and sharing intimacy with each other.

on those situations,you can really look further and within.you will find ( on couples who share a deep close bonding),extraordinary conections.asteroids and angles,asteroids and luminaries,DRACO and TROPICAL.this is a fact. i can choose not to believe in soulmates or twin flames,but the aspects ARE there.

it is not a matter of being idealist.or of wanting to find something which explains the bond itself.the Bond is there.the aspects too..ia this coincidence?

as for me,coincidences dont exist,i know that this as a higher meaning.a clear and simple one:

When we are born,we chose the exact time,place,parents,family.the planets allignemtn are one out or many clues we can find into our own Past.
and that will also shows us,the bonds we share with our Soul Families.

again...it is also a matter of Faith yes.if you are agnostic,or atheist.you wont believe in traditional religion,but that doesnt make you less perfect,less mature or less evolved.it was just the way you choosed to see Life.we choose diferent ways to attain the same goal really...

i respect your opinion.in a way i understand your racionalization.

posted November 02, 2009 04:04 PM              

it is because of the intensity,and the fact that it is the same soul shared by twho different bodies and minds,that turns it to be a very difficult rhing to live and to experience.

each other need to be at the same level,spiritualy wise,to attain the bliss of an eternal love/bond.

posted November 02, 2009 04:07 PM            

"you can bet that once you find your true love soulmate,you wond be wanting another soul to share your love with"

Once you love... Period.

posted November 02, 2009 04:25 PM            

DiandraReborn25, yeah, sharing meaningful synastry aspects with the people we do know in the real life wouldn't be meaningless just coz we share these same aspects with strangers. Coz we do interact with the people we do know, whereas we don't really interact with the others we don't know, so that whatever potential we share with these strangers wouldn't really play out anyways.
Well, there are many factors (whether astrological or in the real life) that would influence if two people would be romantically involved or share any other deep bond or not (despite they two sharing meaningful synastry aspects or not), yet if two people does share a deep bond with each other in the real life, then the meaningful synastry aspects are definitely meaningful.

oneruledbymars, I haven't done much research yet, but in the few researches I did, it did show up in some of the meaningful relationships, whether the relationship became romantic or not.

Lucia23, actually, there's the danger that we might sometimes idealize all those beautiful aspects found in synastries, that it's so easy to get confused about their real meanings or about the real main picture/nature/potential of the relationship. But no matter what, we don't need astrology to tell us whether a relationship really works or not, if the relationship itself is actually not working in the real life.

posted November 02, 2009 04:27 PM            

quote:

---

Twin flames relationship can be many things,but they arent easy or blissfull,quite the contrary.
it is because of the intensity,and the fact that it is the same soul shared by twho different bodies and minds,that turns it to be a very difficult rhing to live and to live.

each other need to be at the same level,spiritualy wise,to attain the bliss of an eternal love/bond.

Soulmates are much more easier,and you can bet that once you find your true love soulmate,you wond be wanting another soul to share your love with

---

YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted November 02, 2009 08:04 PM            

I think attraction plays a very important part in aspect "activation." If two people are attracted to each other, and are each others types, then it's probable the aspects may play out. If it's a one sided attraction, then, the one that is attracted may feel the aspects while the one that isn't attracted, probably feels nothing.

But hey, those are just my thoughts.

posted November 02, 2009 10:16 PM            

And, it's all very personal. I wouldn't put a connection with someone I'd never met in person in the same category as a real relationship in my life. I know a lot of people here disagree with that in their own lives. I think a relationship or connection with a stranger is just a projection.

Diandra, I also value intuition very highly.

I've often thought "Soul Mates" should be renamed "Ego Mates"--the concept involves using astrology to validate for yourself that your obsession with/projection on a stranger is mutual in some way, and fated.

posted November 03, 2009 07:54 AM              

soul mates arent definately ego mates,that is quite the contrary!

Ego stands for the mind,for the thoughts.for what is "material".

SOUL STANDS for spirituality,for energy,for things which arent really explainable by Mindīs knowledge or cientific proof.

Ego is not WHO we are.Ego is just an illusion.and we wont reach our own potencial unless we let go of it.

SOUL mates are the ones who help us find ourselves,beyond this reality.

posted November 03, 2009 09:58 AM              

i saw your questions to IQ and his answers to them.

posted November 03, 2009 10:38 AM            

I absolutely agree with what you say here.

But since you only posted the soulmate pairings, IQ had to base his analysis on this, I think.
That is the difficult thing, that everything is somehow interdependent and could modify the whole picture.