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Author Topic:   Tezcatlipoca
Keela
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posted March 13, 2013 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I want to talk about 1980 Tezcatlipoca. Emphases in italics by me.

"Tezcatlipoca was the Aztec god of night and all material things. He carried a magic mirror that gave off smoke and killed enemies, and so he was called "god of smoking mirror." He was god of the north. As lord of the world and the natural forces, he was the opponent of the spiritual Quetzalcoatl, and sometimes appeared as a tempter, urging men to evil. Punishing evil and rewarding goodness, he tested men's minds with temptations, rather than trying to lead them into wickedness. He was also god of beauty and war, the lord of heroes and lovely girls. He once seduced the goddess of flowers, Xochiquetzal, wife of the god Xochipilli, because such a lovely goddess was a good match for him, being a handsome war-like god. Yet he appeared most frequently as a magician, a shape shifter and a god of mysterious powers."

"Karl Taube and Mary Miller, specialists in Mesoamerican Studies, write that, "More than anything Tezcatlipoca appears to be the embodiment of change through conflict."
"Tezcatlipoca is the god of the nocturnal sky, god of the ancestral memory, god of time..." The site has more and some very good description?

"Another Nagual of Tezcatlipoca is Chalchihuihtotolin, the (blood-) Jewelled Fowl. Chalchihuihtotolin is a symbol of powerful sorcery.
Tezcatlipoca can tempt humans into self-destruction, but when he takes his turkey form he can also cleanse them of contamination, absolve them of guilt, and overcome their fate.


More mythology. Wikipedia and other sites quoted.

"In one of the Aztec accounts of creation, Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca joined forces to create the world. Before their act there was only the sea and the crocodilian earthmonster called Cipactli. To attract her, Tezcatlipoca used his foot as bait, and Cipactli ate it. The two gods then captured her, and distorted her to make the land from her body. After that, they created the people, and people had to offer sacrifices to comfort Cipactli for her sufferings. Because of this, Tezcatlipoca is depicted with a missing foot.

Another story of creation goes that Tezcatlipoca turned himself into the sun, but Quetzalcoatl couldn’t bear his enemy ruling the universe, so he knocked Tezcatlipoca out of the sky. Angered, Tezcatlipoca turned into a jaguar and destroyed the world. Quetzalcoatl replaced him and started the second age of the world and it became populated again. Tezcatlipoca overthrew Quetzalcoatl when he sent a great wind that devastated the world, and what people who survived were turned into monkeys. Tlaloc, the god of rain, became the sun, but Quetzalcoatl sent down fire which destroyed the world again, except for a few humans who survived who were turned into birds. Chalchihuitlicue the Water Goddess became the sun, but the world was destroyed by floods, with what people survived being turned into fish."

http://markandrewholmes.com/tezcatpo.html


Tezcatlipoca's usually depicted as the evil one against Quetzalcoatl (1915) which also comes up in these Lindaland posts as well as the M.A. Holmes astrological keywords behind the link above. Is it entirely just evil things though if it's also about tempting people to test them? He was the creator of the first world, and some sites on google list "Tezcatlipoca apparently has a dual nature, and can be seen as either benevolent, or in a more malign fashion" of him.

So... Where is your 1980 Tezcatlipoca, does it do anything interesting, and how do you see its role in asteroids? Are you focused on the material on its front? Are you perhaps magically gifted? Or is it just giving without taking or scheming and criminal things as suggested by Holmes?

And to better see what I've even written or compiled so far, I'm moving further text to comments.

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Keela
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posted March 13, 2013 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Slightly relatedly, there are Free Mayan astrology readings there, and mine happens to be Red Planetary Dragon which I personally always felt somehow connected to Tezcatlipoca and Imix or Cipactli or whatever its name in the myths. Bear with me, please?


"The universe is an inseparable whole. Red Dragon represents the energy matrix lines that look like a web in the universe, through which all points are connected in time and space. This energetic web of communication is known as the 'crystal grid network.' It is a cauldron of creation, a potent field in which all things are not only possible but constantly being created. Within this grid, the linear causality of time and space has been freed into an open system in which all time and all space exist and interact simultaneously. This grid connects the larger holograms of reality with our own. Its energy lines connect all places, times and events - even those that are seemingly unrelated. All phenomena and all actions are part of this larger whole; it is the very foundation for telepathy and synchronicity. Red Dragon embodies unity, in which all things are one with the Source."


If Tezcatlipoca formed the universe from the "crocodile" and people talk about the world being a matrix, and he's also seen as the god of matter, does that not vibe in your mind? There's also the fact that he tied to the royalty for more things to think about. This may veer a little too close to some people's theories or talk about Reptilians or ruling families as well, but things aren't always just what you bring into them or what you immediately get out yourself, so... I imagine there'll be many ways of looking at all that as well.

http://www.famsi.org/reports/98056/index.html for Tezcatlipoca and the obsidian mirror.

"it was possible to identify the ’presence’ of Tezcatlipoca during the momentous first contacts between Motecuhzoma and the Spanish. Aspects of this ’presence’ include the coincidence of timing inasmuch as the Spanish arrived during Aztec celebrations of Tezcatlipoca’s ’Toxcatl’ ceremony – the proper observances of which constrained the capriciousness of Tezcatlipoca as the patron of royalty upon whose supernatural support the emperor (and to a undetermined extent, political stability) depended."


The obsidian mirror I believe was used also for divining or seeing something of the future. Seeing things not there yet? Which in hindsight I guess you'd also need to be able to even think of creating something if you want to look at it that way.

1980 Tezcatlipoca at 16 Can 28'
Shankar 16 Can 3'6"
Briseis 16 Can 2'40
Lucifer 16 Can 04'
Alma 16 Can 19'

Theoretically speaking that's the god of darkness and evil (and magic) mixed with the rebellious Lucifer who's taken as a bad sign by many, mixed with Alma the soul and a hint of the Trojan war and Briseis as a concubine figure to Achilles. However, not having wanted to mix the topics excessively, there's also Shankar the "Beneficent" or "Giver of Bliss" from that topic.

Some of which may or may not be why I want a closer look at Tezcatlipoca as well, but I don't think it's been exhausted or looked at properly enough yet.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/tterms/a/Tezcatlipoca.htm for at least one mention of the divination and "The first one was the world ruled by Tezcatlipoca, when the world was inhabited by giants." "an obsidian mirror on his chest, through which he could see all human thoughts and actions."
http://www.amoxtli.org/cuezali/is.html

http://atheism.about.com/od/aztecgodsgoddesses/p/Tezcatlipoca.htm

"Tezcatlipoca is God of:

Rulers
Human Destiny
Warriors
Sorcerers
Night
Death
Conflict
Discord
Criminals
Slaves
Temptation
Change"

So with discord and strife, is there also a connection to Eris?

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ail221
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posted March 13, 2013 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ail221     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"So... Where is your 1980 Tezcatlipoca, does it do anything interesting, and how do you see its role in asteroids? Are you focused on the material on its front? Are you perhaps magically gifted? Or is it just giving without taking or scheming and criminal things as suggested by Holmes?

And to better see what I've even written or compiled so far, I'm moving further text to comments."

Tezcatlipoca 27'21 Libra
conjunct Vertex at 27'29 Libra
Geisha in libra 27'39 6th = gifts, entertainment, illusion
Amenemhet Libra 27'10 according to mark Holmes means to dazzle, or to fixate
Hebe in libra 26'46 6th = youth

A slight case of Foresight. Do I give without taking something, yes and I do test people. No interest in crime.

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SaturnineMoth
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posted March 13, 2013 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SaturnineMoth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
o.o keela, I love that Mayan astro-reading site! Red Rhythmic Serpent <3 perty cool!

Awesome research too, eh!

Tezcatlipoca *9 V Capricorn
cnj
Scylla Orthos Nerthus Yarilo
(*8-10*) -
(Facies) Kaali Medusa Dodona Imperatrix
Plato Sampo
-- (11*)-- Hanuman Krishnan Belenus

trine Virgo ASC (Thuban) (7*) 1*
sxt Pisces DSC (Acacia Debussy Prey) (7*) 1*
bQ Gemini MC & Sapientia (3*) 0*
Ses Taurus Moon (**Zaurak Capulus* Amatarasu) (23*) 0*

(wides - Uranus semisxt/Saturn sxt 4*/5*)

~ ~ ~
tri
9* Virgo - Arabia Bali Pax Rhadamanthus Vaticana
9* Taurus - (Kaffajidhma) Hermione Zenobia

opp -
9* (AlMeisan Mebsuta) Ashurbanipal Epona
(8*-10*) -
Undine Raman
(AlHena Alzirr) Child Crantor
-- (7*) -- Ceto

~ ~ ~
It squares Eris-Pholus by sign but wide~ ^^;
9* Aries - (Erakis) Lameia Thia
9* Libra - (Vindemiatrix) Preseverentia Pamina Walkure

***
9* Pisces - (Situla) Herodias Sarutahiko Yamatano-Orochi
9* Scorpio - Polyhymnia Ismene Antarctica

Not very materialistic despite being Capricornian~ Giving and testing, check & check, intuitive, not so much magically gifted... it is very near the 8th degree of Capricorn, which I do look at as the mystic degree within my natal (I like Kaalis position, what can I say. lol)... <3
funny thing... I always felt Quetzelcoatl was the really nasty one. XD (they're 6* wide sextile for me~ Quetzalcoatl in Pisces, that is...) lol

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iQ
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posted March 14, 2013 06:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stupendous research Keela, thanks for posting.
1980 is an Asteroid which will affect mostly those with Native American ancestry, Mexicans and Central Americans.
For other people, the symbolism is akin to Hades, Lucifer and Loki. In fact, there is a bit of Merlin as well in the symbolism.
Have to study this more.

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Keela
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posted March 14, 2013 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
o.o keela, I love that Mayan astro-reading site! Red Rhythmic Serpent <3 perty cool!

Awesome research too, eh!


Thanks, and glad I could help with the other site as well. If you're fond of your Kaali, it may or may not also be wryly amusing that yours is trine mine (8 Virgo, conj your ASC?) AND that your Red Rhythmic Serpent description starts with talk of Kundalini straight off. :P I actually find the descriptions there quite apt (the Challenge and Gift parts often hit home strongly) but can of course only base my judgement on my own and 1-2 friends' "Galactic Signature", as it seems they're calling those.

quote:
Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:

Tezcatlipoca *9 V Capricorn

Not very materialistic despite being Capricornian~ Giving and testing, check & check, intuitive, not so much magically gifted... it is very near the 8th degree of Capricorn, which I do look at as the mystic degree within my natal (I like Kaalis position, what can I say. lol)... <3
funny thing... I always felt Quetzelcoatl was the really nasty one. XD (they're 6* wide sextile for me~ Quetzalcoatl in Pisces, that is...) lol


Did you mention a house for your Tezcatlipoca and I just miss it? I forgot to mention the ones I listed were in 12th house, so I'm even less sure how visible something like that would be. Then again, given Tezcatl's nature, maybe something of 8th and 12th house vibes could work well with him. If 12th house is also for prisons and "Tezcatlipoca was a vengeful god, who could see and punish any evil behavior or action happening on earth" maybe there's some minor attunement there, too. I wouldn't know.

I think the first world (or sun?) made or ruled by Tezcatlipoca was related to the earth element, so maybe Capricorn and Earth signs work well from that end as well. Then again, it's about change, so Mutable Earth? Throwing in pure guesses here, for brainstorming or people being able to go wherever seems best from all that.

It's also interesting that all the rest of the world rulers or creators were known as White Tezcatlipoca (Quetzalcoatl, the duality aspect), Blue T. and Red Tezcatlipoca. "Because of his early and important status, some believe that all other Aztec gods and goddesses were ultimately aspects of Tezcatlipoca."

For example, the Blue Tezcatlipoca has the following remark on Wikipedia, so one would need to know more about the timelines and when who rose to power to determine some of the stuff talked about out there. However, that they go with Tezcatlipoca as the god always seems interesting.

"Huitzilopochtli was the patron god of the Mexica tribe. Originally he was of little importance to the Nahuas, but after the rise of the Aztecs, Tlacaelel reformed their religion and put Huitzilopochtli at the same level as Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca, making him a solar god. Through this, Huitzilopochtli replaced Nanahuatzin, the solar god from the Nahua legend."

Xipe Totec on the other hand, the fourth one, is a "life-death-rebirth deity, god of agriculture, vegetation, the east, disease, spring, goldsmiths, silversmiths and the seasons. Xipe Totec was also known by the alternative names... Tlatlauhqui Tezcatlipoca ("Red Smoking Mirror")..."

And Tezcatlipoca is a shapeshifter as well, so maybe that works with something of that sort as well.


My Quetzalcoatl's 22 Pisces (9H) cnj BML and Wellamo the Finnish water goddess. It's Antiscia with Pluto-Magnanimity-Ramakrishna-Merman-Columbia and more I forget now. Heracles at 21 Pisces.

Quetzalcoatl opp Qumran-Maria-Ishtar-Minerva-Epona-Una-Tweedledee
a degree opp Akashi-Divari-Magellan-Lorenz at 23 Virgo
21 Virgo had at least Hybris and Tweedledum

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Keela
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posted March 14, 2013 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
Tezcatlipoca 27'21 Libra

A slight case of Foresight. Do I give without taking something, yes and I do test people. No interest in crime.


Well, Holmes' full account was that "In astrology, Tezcatlipoca stands for darkness, scheming, giving without taking; criminal, evil, predatory or antisocial behavior; the occult, materialism, opportunism; the anti-hero, the sorcerer or other individual who considers himself or herself above the written and unwritten laws that govern human conduct" so I wanted to see how people have been using the asteroid beyond the Bible papyrus discussion linked to up there.

Your Tezcatlipoca is conj my Leviathan (and opp my Chiron), actually, but as usual I keep forgetting what else I have at certain spots. I wondered if Holmes meant to write "taking without giving" given the slightly more negative other keywords, but again can't comment on that. Antisocial behaviour would seem to fit the other better, but then there's the rest of Tezcatlipoca myth and his other side to take into account as well.

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Keela
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posted March 14, 2013 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by iQ:
Stupendous research Keela, thanks for posting.
1980 is an Asteroid which will affect mostly those with Native American ancestry, Mexicans and Central Americans.
For other people, the symbolism is akin to Hades, Lucifer and Loki. In fact, there is a bit of Merlin as well in the symbolism.
Have to study this more.

I'd consider it actual research if I'd done something astrological instead of just copy-pasting from other sites, but thanks, anyway. Further research starts once the background is in place and that's what I wanted to facilitate with talk here.

Given the mention of "change through conflict" I was wondering if something like the Arab uprisings would have something related, and Tezcatlipoca's tempting-part lead to thoughts about corruption cases where either a whistleblower (passing Tezcatlipoca's tests) blew something open or the ones failing the tests got busted otherwise. Again, just freeforming and throwing in random ideas whether they'd work or not.

There are also things afoot with Hugo Chavez's death and other South American political situations, if the change through conflict part isn't tied to merely Central America. So there might be interesting results if political change was looked at in relation to Tezcatlipoca as well. It may be harder to get a good picture of all that if there is anything of things changing shape or the smoke side involved though. I wouldn't know. Maybe someone who appeared to pull a victory from something as if nigh magically?


As for your comment, is it likely to have more effect also if you have Mexico conj Karma and both under two degrees conj Sun? Mexico-Karma square Nodes, too, so potentially something there.

I know 10866 Peru is more the Incas but that's 1 conj Saturn, Columbia conj Pluto and 4636 Chile conj Destinn - so as per my instinct, South America seems to feature in some way in my chart. 9357 Venezuela 29'04 R Pisces trine Peru and kind of wide of trining 2'36 Sag 10797 Guatemala, opposing Mars by two degrees. I didn't find a Panama asteroid and need a look at the map for other possibly related things.

More or less coincidentally, hello to the first "new continent" or South American pope as well. I know I have my Vaticana 1 conj Ail221's Tezcatlipoca if nothing else.

There is no Maya asteroid but my Mayall is 1'07 R Ari so under 1,5 conj the MC. Maja (more the illusions?) 26'54 Ari trine Mexico-Karma and conj Chiron. I also doubt Mayapatel has anything to do with this, but I have it at 22'34 Libra in any case.

As for 4862 Loke, mine is still ~1,5 degrees conj Mercury and both sextile Tezcatlipoca & co. up there. Tezcatlipoca & the rest also square Panacea-Chariklo-Herculina from what I recall.

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ail221
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posted March 14, 2013 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ail221     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Keela:
Well, Holmes' full account was that "In astrology, Tezcatlipoca stands for darkness, scheming, giving without taking; criminal, evil, predatory or antisocial behavior; the occult, materialism, opportunism; the anti-hero, the sorcerer or other individual who considers himself or herself above the written and unwritten laws that govern human conduct" so I wanted to see how people have been using the asteroid beyond the Bible papyrus discussion linked to up there.

Your Tezcatlipoca is conj my Leviathan (and opp my Chiron), actually, but as usual I keep forgetting what else I have at certain spots. I wondered if Holmes meant to write "taking without giving" given the slightly more negative other keywords, but again can't comment on that. Antisocial behaviour would seem to fit the other better, but then there's the rest of Tezcatlipoca myth and his other side to take into account as well.


I decided to double check my chart. I have 2272 Montezuma(common Aztec Emperor name) at 24'14 Libra conjunct Tezcatlipoca both sq my Sun/Jupiter ,trine venus and Quetzalcoatl (Tezcatlipoca's twin). 2275 Cuitlahuac Aries 27'29(Another Aztec Emperor) opposite Montezuma and Tezcatlipoca. Tezcatlipoca takes on the Lucifer role in the sense that he's the shadow in comparison to say his brother Michael in Christian religion/Mythology. I am more inclined to to say Tezcatlipoca represents more of the yin to Quetzalcoatl's yang. A interest in the occult or a lack of fear of exploring the occult seeing other worlds, since he was the god of mirrors and illusions, seeing things that are beyond the veil. I don't necessarily attach the words good or evil to mythological gods but I suppose viewing one's self above the laws of man would be deemed evil but their gods written and unwritten human laws aren't meant to govern them.

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Keela
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posted March 14, 2013 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whoa there. 2275, my birthdate and year. Mine at 1 Sco conj my Union-Kama-Samarkand and more, and thus somewhere that's usually hit by Antiscia ASCs in synastry in my case since my Sun is 28 Leo and works with that. Montezuma at 18 Sag 15' so a degree conj my Vx.

I like your yin-yang views, especially given their apparent dualism in general views out there. The sorcerer seems to be the main role though, so warrior-sorcerer and then some to further get some new ideas or perspectives from maybe.

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BlackSeraph
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posted March 14, 2013 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackSeraph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Tezcatlipoca winds up at 16 Vir 58'26", 10th house in whole sign system, and about 2.5 degrees off Midheaven (19 Vir 41'10"), so... effectively 10th house in Placidus as well.
Conjunct:
- 5264 Telephus (16 Vir 6'6")
- 389 Industria (16 Vir 17'55")
- 9777 Enterprise (17 Vir 15'12")
- 566 Stereoskopia (17 Vir 18'5")
- 12238 Actor (18 Vir 5'13")
Opposes:
- 273 Atropos (16 Pis 13'9" Rx)
Squares:
- 1260 Walhalla (16 Gem 3'50")
- 1991 Darwin (16 Gem 12'7")
- 4017 Disneya (16 Gem 22'4")
- 1020 Arcadia (17 Gem 44'7")
- 484 Pittsburghia (17 Gem 55'51")
- Neptune (15 Sag 33'3" Station Direct)
- 2266 Tchaikovsky (16 Sag 19'32")
- 2365 Interkosmos (17 Sag 4'4")
- 313 Chaldea (17 Sag 39'14")
Trines:
- 42355 Typhon (16 Tau 15'45" Rx)
- 2228 Soyuz-Apollo (16 Tau 48'5")
- 472 Roma (16 Cap 33'55" Rx)
- 8661 Ratzinger (17 Cap 24'53" Rx)
Sextiles:
- 2102 Tantalus (16 Can 43'41")
- 19589 Kirkland (17 Can 10'25")
- 14827 Hypnos (17 Can 40'11")
- 2309 Mr. Spock (17 Can 46'1")
- 136 Austria (16 Sco 10'17")
- 16 Psyche (16 Sco 10'22")
- 4659 Roddenberry (16 Sco 18'26")
- 2999 Dante (16 Sco 25'35")
- 3226 Plinius (17 Sco 5'14")
- Middle Name asteroid (17 Sco 21'41")
- 6042 Cheshirecat (17 Sco 58'30")

A lot of the connections I'm seeing to my Tezcatlipoca involve Science-Fiction references, esoteric knowledge references, communications and publication, to say nothing of a few creators who met unfortunate ends (Plinius the Elder met his end at Pompeii, either through inhalation of fumes or natural causes (people with him survived so the latter is assumed); Tchaikovsky may have died from Cholera, or possibly committed suicide in some way, possibly at the command of a court of honor or by the Tsar's command himself)

I'll say I am a pretty big fan of many things sci-fi/fantasy; big into esoteric research and theorizing of altered states of reality/perception; fascinated by tragedies in history (Pompeii/WWII/suicides that shouldn't have happened like the possible outcome of Tchaikovsky and definite suicides like R. Budd Dwyer)

I could see me developing some kind of literary or media work that ultimately hoists me by my own petard somehow... (I would of course prefer the first half of that but not the second half!)

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Keela
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posted March 16, 2013 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for my own questions, "Where is your 1980 Tezcatlipoca, does it do anything interesting, and how do you see its role in asteroids?" The conjunctions were listed first up there but a Serennu check makes it also:

16 Can with Briseis, Shankar, Lucifer, Irmgard, Alma, Watsonia, Gunnie, Struveana and Tezcatlipoca if nothing else.
Askalaphus 15'32' + Manto 15'45' Can conjunct T. under a degree
Oceana and Poesia cnj under a degree from 17 Can
Trine 16 Pis 32' Amor
Sextile Mercury 16 Vir 53'

The name Manto derives from Ancient Greek Mantis, "seer, prophet", so I guess the prophetess connection there could be interesting as well. I'm intrigued by the Amor trine but have no idea how it'd feature.


Not really sure or no idea about the possible effects of Tezcatlipoca though. Dreaming some future things every now and then on small scale can relate to other asteroids as well, if you want to attribute something to such a thing. I love nighttime and am a night owl all the way to having some affinity to some goddesses of the night. Whatever goddesses honed in on also for some strange reason often later turned out to contain justice or punishing of crimes as a sideline feature, so there's a minor connection to Tezcatlipoca through that perhaps. Obfuscation has also always seemed like a reasonably good idea for safety's sake if nothing else, but I don't lean toward tricksters or trickster gods in general. The mythology seems to have a specific trickster otherwise already with http://www.azteccalendar.com/god/huehuecoyotl.html even if there is a connection to T. with the shapeshifting.

I come from a Northern country, have only known one Mexican online that I know of, and the main contact to Mayan or Aztec things is the interest in mythology. My grand-uncle gave me a necklace depicting the Mayan calendar stone when I graduated, one he'd bought from Mexico in the 70s, but that doesn't specifically tie to Tezcatlipoca either.

Some other Mayan astrology page out there gave me the Reed for the day I was born on, so that Tezcatlipoca rules Acatl/Reed day is potentially interesting though. If that online calendar count is right,

"Day Acatl (Reed) is governed by Tezcatlipoca as its provider of tonalli (Shadow Soul) life energy. Acatl is the scepter of authority which is, paradoxically, hollow. It is a day when the arrows of fate fall from the sky like lightningbolts. A good day to seek justice, a bad day to act against others." http://www.azteccalendar.com/day/Acatl.html

I don't do shapeshifting that I know of, but some people seemed to react as if I did when seeing photos of me with different hairstyles or colours alone. I like makeup, masks and changing appearances for parties and more though, but I still doubt it's entirely connected to who I am per se if my main planetary contact to it is "just" Mercury, third house by Placidus, second by equal. Shifting or not.

I was possibly a slight source of conflict within the family in teenage years, but I likewise also assume that's rather common whatever your asteroids. Even if it was a Tezcatlipoca-Lucifer combo conjunct paternal Ascendants. I considered him materialistic, while I'm not. Your call what Tezcatlipoca does or doesn't do in my case with all the things above.


And while it's not Tezcatlipoca either (unless fireworks count under magic, which I doubt), Mexico rarely reaches the news where I live so it's interesting (if unfortunate) to see the Jesus Tepactepec village news pop up by Friday night. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/mexico-fireworks-explosio_n_2886396 .html?utm_hp_ref=world

Transiting Mexico at ~2'49 Aries on the midnight starting the day, Tezcatlipoca 20 Aqu 54'. BAM 14 Ari 40'?

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Keela
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posted March 16, 2013 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mistyping things. Is that "Delete this post" box on the side safe to hit for deleting just one comment in a thread, or does that delete the entire post? I don't dare try it in my rush now.

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ail221
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posted March 16, 2013 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ail221     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can't delete a post only mods can.

Interestingly I checked the Aztec Calendar and I was born during" The thirteen day period (trecena) that starts with day 1-Mazatl (Deer) is ruled by Tepeyollotl, the Heart of the Mountain, the Jaguar of Night, lord of the animals and darkened caves. Tepeyollotl is Tezcatlipoca disguised in a jaguar hide, whose voice is the echo in the wilderness and whose word is the darkness itself, calls to the heart in the voice of the conch. These are 13 days associated with the hunt: whether one is the hunter or the game, this trecena reminds us that our lives are determined by the act of stalking. The arts of tracking and back-tracking, of spotting and camouflaging, of following tracks and covering tracks, rule our lives to the degree that we master them. These are good days to study the routines of others; bad days to keep to your routines. "

So again the Tezcatlipoca influence. Yes the "sorcerer" or occult interest seems to be a part of the influence but they can be taken into account with my other asteroid and planetary placements. Hekate 14 Cancer conjunct Lucifer at 17 cancer. Kassandra in Aries 24'34 conjunct Cuitlahuac Aries 27'29, Anubis 2 Taurus conjunct natal mars 3' taurus, Briseis, Priamus, and Psyche conjunct asc 28'Taurus and Moon in Gemini 2. Magdalena and Somnium conjunct Moon.

edit.
Interestingly the other day I had a dream I was communicating with a loved one that passed away when transiting Tezcatlipoca was conjunct transit Lucifer and transit Osiris conjunct my Osiris near its return.
Along with some other disturbing dreams.

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Stawr
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posted March 17, 2013 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stawr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Tezcatlipoca
conjunct my pluto
sextile Neptune
square mean node true node and Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl
Square Moon and Pluto

they are both pretty prominent in my chart

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Astro keen
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posted March 19, 2013 07:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Keela,

This query is nothing to do with your topic.

Could you please tell me how you managed to get the fonts in bold and italic in the posts above. And you added great links too. I tried and failed. I'd like to use these devices in the reference threads. It may be something to do with the browser I am using - Safari. Which one do you use?

Thanks

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Keela
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posted March 19, 2013 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astro keen,

I use whatever's available in the public libraries, so normally Firefox and currently IE. It's the board's coding more so than anything special I imagine. I don't know what you tried though. You know the html-codes for bold (b) and italics (i) otherwise, right? Normally you use <> around them, but here and on other sites like this it's [ ] around the desired code. I don't know which other little neat things people have in use here since I'm fairly new here myself and don't remember how to get half those :TEXTHERE: style laughing/flower or angel style images people also seem to use here either. If I want an image like that, I have to rely on checking the code from someone else's reply by hitting Quote, but doing that should also help you see the board's codes used for italics and bolding in my case up there.

Hopefully it's just the [] as the thing missed instead of Safari having issues with something like that.

The links I generally just copy-paste on before the text I want to put inside the links, and then once I click Submit Reply and the board does the formatting to write in the whole long URL somethingsomething code for it inside the same [] again... I hit Edit and snip out the text from the middle and write in whatever I wanted to be in there instead. If I remembered the specific code this board or place uses for the
URL=somethingsomething (yourdesiredtextgoeshere) /URL
litany, I'd write it in myself without using the edit-step. I hope that helps, and if you need more help with the specific coding or images used here, I assume there might be some post about those somewhere in the first welcoming section (Know two are alike?) or SOMEWHERE. I just never looked for one - or personally even remembered or bothered to post on that side. It was never that specifically about me or hellos when I came here, as opposed to getting more info on asteroids and more.

There may be underline codes or something else in use here as well, for example, but I don't know since I normally don't use that one as much.

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Astro keen
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posted March 19, 2013 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astro keen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Keela, that's very helpful.

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Keela
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posted March 19, 2013 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BlackSeraph:
My Tezcatlipoca winds up at 16 Vir 58'26", 10th house in whole sign system, and about 2.5 degrees off Midheaven (19 Vir 41'10"), so... effectively 10th house in Placidus as well.

A lot of the connections I'm seeing to my Tezcatlipoca involve Science-Fiction references, esoteric knowledge references, communications and publication, to say nothing of a few creators who met unfortunate ends.

... big into esoteric research and theorizing of altered states of reality/perception; fascinated by tragedies in history

I could see me developing some kind of literary or media work that ultimately hoists me by my own petard somehow... (I would of course prefer the first half of that but not the second half!)


Your Tezcatlipoca is conjunct my Mercury almost to the minute it seems, and my Hekate/Stargazer/Cupido hits your MC while Roddenberry trines it - whatever all that might mean. Thanks for the comment in general and talking about possibilities in particular.

Thanks for bringing up Kirkland as well, my not having thought to check Kirk-related names even when checking for Enterprisean things otherwise. Can we tell I preferred Spock? Which makes it all the more wry that Kirkland's apparently well under a degree conjunct my Sun, but I guess that's the bane of being a Leo. Kirk fits the bill more than Spock. /dramatic sigh. ;P

At least I get my Mr. Spock and Enterprise conjunct my 13 Sco 30' Eros in any case, if nothing else. Do you know where your Star Tek is?

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Keela
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posted March 19, 2013 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought to check Mel Gibson's chart for something like this given the Apocalypto movie (and now that I checked, all the more for the lead character being called Jaguar Paw as well).

I don't know if it's directly related, but if Cortesi passes for Cortez, Gibson's is at 13'39' Cap conjunct his 12'30' Sun and opposite his 14'59' Cancer Ascendant. Apt, anyone?

His Tezcatlipoca is at 27 Vir 03' near his 24'22 IC and a few minutes over a two degree trine to his Mercury. Quetzalcoatl 12 Pis 34'. I didn't have time to check more of the asteroids talked about higher up there but knew I'd have to check while I still remembered him. Astrodienst's databank used for the birth chart.

And yes, this probably ties to me as well. My 91428 Cortesi is 6 Vir 47' conj my Venus. Along with Requiem, Quirk and I forget what.

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BlackSeraph
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posted March 20, 2013 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackSeraph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Keela:
Your Tezcatlipoca is conjunct my Mercury almost to the minute it seems, and my Hekate/Stargazer/Cupido hits your MC while Roddenberry trines it - whatever all that might mean. Thanks for the comment in general and talking about possibilities in particular.

Intriguing. I'm not sure what all that means in terms of synastry... Tezcatlipoca in synastry would be a good study idea to see what happens.

quote:

Thanks for bringing up Kirkland as well, my not having thought to check Kirk-related names even when checking for Enterprisean things otherwise. Can we tell I preferred Spock? Which makes it all the more wry that Kirkland's apparently well under a degree conjunct my Sun, but I guess that's the bane of being a Leo. Kirk fits the bill more than Spock. /dramatic sigh. ;P

At least I get my Mr. Spock and Enterprise conjunct my 13 Sco 30' Eros in any case, if nothing else. Do you know where your Star Tek is?


22003 Startek (10 Pis 33'21" Rx)... Squares 9531 Jean-Luc (10 Gem 29'50"), also with my Hekate on Aldeberan.

178008 Picard (19 Aqu 49'28" Rx) Quincunxes my Midheaven (out of orb of Tezcatlipoca though).

What I found really interesting was:
829 Academia (15 Aqu 49'41" Rx) and 25513 Weseley (15 Aqu 51'36" Rx) do quincunx my Tezcatlipoca. They're also conjunct 1896 Beer (16 Aqu 20'10" Rx), and the actor who played Wesley Crusher (Wil Wheaton) is known for brewing his own brews (according to his Twitter feed anyways), as well as being involved in some scientific pursuits (He was one of the celebs present at JPL when Curiosity landed on Mars, plus NASA did have him do a brief video clip about Curiosity before the landing). It makes sense, as it was nightfall in Pasadena when Curiosity landed (and was after 1AM in my neck of the woods), plus what's more "night" than space?

Curiously, Weseley, Academia and Beer are all conjunct my first calculation for the Arabic Part of Catastrophe (16 Aqu 14')... (well, Wesley did almost destroy the Enterprise-D a few times didn't he?... )

I also found this sequence opposite my Tezcatlipoca, with my IC, assuming 2 degree orb validity:

390 Alma (18 Pis 2'33" Rx)
4321 Zero (18 Pis 8'47" Rx)
38540 Stevens (18 Pis 12'46" Rx)
19 Fortuna (18 Pis 23'21" Rx)
342 Endymion (18 Pis 46'30" Rx)
4259 McCoy (18 Pis 50'26" Rx)

Figures McCoy would be in there... with Alma and Fortuna makes sense to me.. he was a doctor after all (and fortunately for us, a good one if not a bit ornery!)

(A side note, I did also notice I have 2369 Chekov (23 Tau 40'10") and 7307 Takei (25 Tau 29'15") with 18824 Graves (25 Tau 43'36") and my 3811 Karma (25 Tau 03'31") ... on Algol. Not sure what that's trying to tell me and given no aspect to Tezcatlipoca (way too far of orb to be a trine), this is probably a subject for another thread.

But... that being said, the discoveries here do bolster the sci-fi/fiction aspect, if not the celebrity aspect, between my chart and my Tezcatlipoca. Not sure what to say about that though. On a final note, found 2412 Wil (0 Gem 58'44") on Alcyone, with my 6583 Destinn (0 Gem 10'8"), square my Sun (0 Vir 15'31") / Regulus, and Wil makes a 105-degree link (with 1 deg orb) to Tezcatlipoca... ...I forget what 105-degree aspects mean if anything, but I'm certain I saw it somewhere...

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BlackSeraph
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posted March 20, 2013 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlackSeraph     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know... with my references to celebrities (especially of the Star Trek/Sci-Fi variety), and that thing about "He was also god of beauty and war, the lord of heroes and lovely girls"... I'm wondering if there isn't something for Tezcatlipoca also representing forms of, shall we say... "Hero-worship".

Anyone else have anything like that in their charts, and does it match up with your interests regarding particular figures (assuming name asteroids are present)?

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Keela
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posted March 21, 2013 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BlackSeraph:
... They're also conjunct 1896 Beer (16 Aqu 20'10" Rx)...

Curiously, Weseley, Academia and Beer are all conjunct my first calculation for the Arabic Part of Catastrophe (16 Aqu 14')... (well, Wesley did almost destroy the Enterprise-D a few times didn't he?... )

I also found this sequence opposite my Tezcatlipoca, with my IC, assuming 2 degree orb validity:

390 Alma (18 Pis 2'33" Rx)
4321 Zero (18 Pis 8'47" Rx)
38540 Stevens (18 Pis 12'46" Rx)
19 Fortuna (18 Pis 23'21" Rx)
342 Endymion (18 Pis 46'30" Rx)
4259 McCoy (18 Pis 50'26" Rx)

with my 6583 Destinn (0 Gem 10'8"), square my Sun (0 Vir 15'31") / Regulus, and Wil makes a 105-degree link (with 1 deg orb) to Tezcatlipoca... ...I forget what 105-degree aspects mean if anything, but I'm certain I saw it somewhere...


Tezcatlipoca and your other comment replied to more toward the bottom.

Your positions and checks lead to interesting reverberations on my side, although I'd already noted that someone else I checked also had their Shankar opposite 134 Sophrosyne likewise, same as me. I'm just noting because I have Shankar, Tezcatlipoca and Alma all conjunct. I tend to notice that people who do reply to whatever little I post have something that connects to my chart synastry-wise, so it's as if people who don't vibe to me in any way are half blind to the topic even if it might work with them if someone else posted it. Thankfully many of the asteroid-side regulars at least do have hits to me so some kind of discussion happens on some small scale if nothing else. My Moon's 0 Pis 31' and Sun 28 Leo 20', for example, if looking at your Sun.

You're right about some of the other asteroids probably being better for other topics, so maybe we should post a scifi or Star Trek related one to recap, regroup or check out more there? I'd love there to be a Garak asteroid if nothing else though. I know Nanavisitor exists, but doubt Andrewrobinson does.

Until there is a more proper Trek or scifi asteroid thread (boldly going) out there, listing some more of mine to reply to yours. Jean-Luc 12'24' Can conj my Fortuna. Takei 10 Vir 32' conj Destinn. Pavylchekov's at 22 Leo conj my Excalibur and more I'll add in when have a list at hand. Confucius?
McCoy 16 Leo 29' with Imhotep, Shakespeare and I think Madreteresa at least.
Picard at 4 Lib 11' with the other of my name asteroids (the other's at 8 Gem, so their midpoint is my ASC), Storm and more. Under 2 degrees cnj my IC, trine Mars.
Weseley 14 Ari 59' cnj Aisleen.

Beer 26 Gem 20 with Horus, Gyptis, Artemis, Moriarty, Ninina, Gerlinde and more. Dionysus 0 Can and Bacchus 14 Cap so not tied to Beer in my case (thankfully, as I dislike the taste), but Beer is opposite Ariadne-Lust on the GC and Ariadne gets paired with Dionysus.

My SN conj Algol, along with 320 Katharina, Alekto and Armandhammer, so as I have Karma square my Nodes, we appear to have Karmas squared, too. I don't know what Stevens is but I do have it 26'36' Leo with my Karma-Mexico-NOT-Lie-Tisiphone etc.

Academia 7 Can 40', so I think the most it does is cnj Hektor?

Startek 8 Leo cnj ASC, exactly cnj Saint-Michel, Child, China and more. I need to check some more of your listed asteroids when I can, but think I had my Wil at 8 Virgo as well actually, conjunct that Kaali-Philosophia and more I asked about elsewhere. I remember because it squared my name asteroid in Gemini and was checking in relation to a Will's chart.


As for TEZCATLIPOCA again...

I have Soomana and Sootiyo (the Hopi "Starchild" ones) at 15 Can and 16 Aquarius so there's a conjunction and the inconjunct from my end to the 16 Cancer asteroids. 16 Sag has Narcissus for less desirable things for the other 150 degree side. I'm wondering if Sophrosyne at 16 Cap in the middle is a help with whatever all that is when also trine my Mercury; complete intuiting as it all is with these at my end when not having looked at many charts yet.

Sophrosyne:
"Greek goddess. She was the spirit of moderation, self-control, temperance, restraint, and discretion. / Some of the traits used to describe Sophrosyne are prudence, self-control, moderation, and temperance. The idea of these traits are based on two famous Greek sayings which are: "nothing in excess" and "know thyself.""

Sophrosyne's essentially listed as the opposite of hubris, so how would one interpret that asteroid opposite their Tezcatlipoca and the Hybris asteroid opposite their Quetzalcoatl, if choosing to interpret that as the "light" one compared to the dark of Tezcatlipoca? There seems to be a balancing going on there, so even if the mythologies get mixed there it seems like something to note. Excessive pride and arrogant lifting up of yourself opposite the "light" god and then moderation or discretion opposite the one considered darker (not to mention Lucifer's pride). Nothing in excess, whether good or bad? Something's clashing in any case. I'll welcome possible interpretations though as hadn't considered the pattern until now.


Your mention of:
"that thing about "He was also god of beauty and war, the lord of heroes and lovely girls"... I'm wondering if there isn't something for Tezcatlipoca also representing forms of, shall we say... "Hero-worship".
Anyone else have anything like that in their charts, and does it match up with your interests regarding particular figures (assuming name asteroids are present)?"

in your other comment is also interesting since Apollo is said to lead to worship of the Apollo-person according to some other Lindaland threads somewhere here. I have Apollo cnj Poesia and Oceana at 17 Can so the only reason I didn't mention it up there originally was that it was just wide of a degree conjunction. 4321 Zero is 17 Virgo with 511 Davida (David, conjunct my Mercury and opposite Osiris, my Tyche at 19 Sco trine your 18 Pisces things likewise.

I was never interested in poetry compared to prose though, but it is nevertheless interesting that everybody else in the family seemed to have planets or angles around 15-17 Cancer and my always wondering about being the odd one out until I found asteroids. There wasn't hero worship though, and not even the friend with her Sun at 18 Cancer showed any hero worship toward me. So in my case or so far I don't think the effect of either Apollo or Tezcatlipoca has been exactly like that.

Apollo (and Athena) were my initially favourite Greek gods though when I first got into mythology, and I could attribute my appreciating the looks and commanding air of a figure like Zero Wolf from the Apocalypto movie to something like those as well perhaps, but it's all very much so guessing. The solstice point of my Valentine is 15 Capricorn, so as Antiscia work strongly in my case I lean toward that having some influence as well as the trine from 16 Pis Amor and 17 Pis Osiris.

Actually, a bit of blindness or a further insight from my end as well... My Zero was opposite my Amor-Osiris, sextile Tezcatlipoca, so maybe that influences my liking of a good-looking Zero Wolf-character as well. Especially when I had Fox conjunct Kaali likewise and the Mayan/Aztec charts seem to point more to the Old Coyote trickster god of the Tezcatlipoca family for my birthday, and I only have Fox to go by for a coyote substitute.

ETA:
Graves 11 Can 23, Wil 13 Leo 48 (so I misremembered and the other person's Wil was with my Kaali), Chekhov 0 Vir 12'. More when I get more time.

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Keela
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posted March 22, 2013 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stawr:
I have Tezcatlipoca
conjunct my pluto
sextile Neptune
square mean node true node and Quetzalcoatl

Quetzalcoatl
Square Moon and Pluto

they are both pretty prominent in my chart


So that was Tezcatlipoca/Pluto square Quetzalcoatl/NN, if I read that right? Is Moon on the opposite side from Tezc/Pluto or the same, but not conjunct T.? Anything about signs or houses that sticks out, or possible meanings?

My Quetzalcoatl's on my BML and their solstice point is Pluto in Libra, so I'm interested if you have any experiences about Pluto mixing in with them in your case. Draconic Quetzalcoatl is ~26 Cancer so that's trine my NN. My draconic Tezcatlipoca forms a ~2 degree trine to Quetzalcoatl but I don't normally consider that really.

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Keela
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posted March 23, 2013 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"1980 Tezcatlipoca (1950 LA) is an Amor asteroid discovered on June 19, 1950 by A. G. Wilson at Palomar."

Tezcatlipoca's DISCOVERY CHART locations for the time below. I just picked 0:56am at random for night - although it might have been the following evening as well, I guess. That time would give 28 Pis 37' for ASC and 29 Sag 10' for MC. Astrodienst's offered Palomar Mountain location used.

Sun 27 Gem 28'
Moon 9 Leo 42'
Merc 6 Gem 17'
Venus 20 Tau 30'
Mars 2 Lib 54'
Jupiter 7 Pis 21'
Saturn 13 Vir 37'
Uranus 4 Can 42'
Neptune 14 Lib 35' R
Pluto 16 Leo 22'
True Node 3 Ari 10'
Chiron 18 Sag 1' R

Asteroids discovered by A.G. Wilson

Tezcatlipoca 12 Sag 15' R
Quetzalcoatl 24 Aqu 37' R
1620 Geographica 22 Tau 34'
10000 Myriostos 8 Sco 46' R
118162 1951 SX 5 Lib 50'

2465 Wilson 21 Tau 30'
3811 Karma 15 Can 46'
2598 Merlin 27 Vir 04'
4862 Loke 20 Leo 09'
16248 Fox 4 Tau 17'
11911 Angel 4 Vir 29'
1221 Amor 25 Gem 11'
4227 Kaali 5 Sag 38' R
4600 Meadows 26 Gem 56'
1548 Palomaa 9 Aqu 40 R

I don't know why I checked Meadows, but apparently it's conjunct the Sun. There is no Palomar asteroid and Palomaa is just a Finnish person, but near enough if Kaali's spelling passes for Kali.

I wryly see that Tezcatlipoca's NN seems to be conjunct my MC with Mars on its South Node, and that its Karma is conjunct my Tezc (and the things that prompted me to post here), Merlins trine. I also keep hitting or getting interesting angle positions with "randomly" (?) thrown in times to just get a chart. That time places Merlin conjunct the Descendant, whatever the actual time might be.

My 118162 asteroid is at 15 Vir 28' conjunct my Loki and sextile Tezcatlipoca, too, Myriostos the "ten thousandth" at 17 Sco 31' trine it.

I still don't know what the chart might suggest per se since I'm in a rush and too low on online time to properly look at such, but at least other people can now poke at that as well if they like. Have fun.

There's at least Pluto trine Chiron, Venus trine Loke and Mercury square Jupiter though at a glance. For a Warrior Mars on the SN with Uranus square the Nodes is interesting enough as well to me. Let rip if you find something interesting or take a look at the chart yourself.

ETA for me:
1198 Atlantis 7 Vir 09'

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