posted December 12, 2013 11:38 PM            

Honestly, I've theorised they're more like the Jungian shadow - anima or animus - depending.

What I can't figure is ... which is which? And which would be 'best' in synastry?

One would think a man's PRIAPUS and a woman's BML - but does that really work like, say, MARS and VENUS, or is there something else going on here?

How does PRIAPUS operate in a woman's chart?
BML in a man's?

posted December 13, 2013 01:19 PM            

Actually BOTH are of lunar symbolism, as they represent the perigee (Priapus) and apogee (Lilith) of the Moon.

So, they do not reflect the masculine-feminine principle on the basis of the solar-lunar-connection (Sun-Moon), but if they represent this at all, it is all in reference to the lunar realm (the emotional-instinctual sphere).

Letīs have a look at what they really are.

Priapus is the point where the moon is closest to earth- looking much bigger than normally, even making a difference in the tides,wich tend to be more extreme. (because due to the Moon being closer to earth, the gravitational pull is stronger - hence the tides are higher or there is more variation in them).

That is Priapus.
A bigger moon, clearly dominating the midnight sky. Greater tides (water).

The emotional sphere is clearly heightened, more intense, maybe even in a most irrational way, like everything "feels" bigger more meaningful, more emotionalized.

It is closer to earth (matter) than to the Sun (spirit).
Priapus needs to manifest in an earthly manner. LEt me be blunt, Priapus wants to feel close to somebody, and the way for him to do it, is literally merge with the other part, not in a detached mental or spiritual way, but through sex, simply put.
Physical closeness (emotional closeness - lunar symbolism- on the physical level - earth).

Now, usually we attribute this need to adapt to others, to merge with them, to bring people together, to compromise, to make personal connections, rather with the feminine psychology.

In this sense we have raw masculine power here, yes that might be true, but clearly carrying the feminine notion of "connecting" with it. The urge for connection is so great that PRiapus will do basically anything to accomplish that.

------------------------------------------

Now for the Black Moon LIlith- the apogee.
Furthest from earth. Looking small and distant. Out of reach.
She is furthest from earth (matter), but that means closer to the Sun (spirit).
Now closer to the Sun also means, emphasizing the "I", independence.

I think that is a key to understanding her. She will still want connection (she IS a lunar symbol after all), but on HER terms, noone elses.
She will rather suppress her needs for a companion, than yield to a companion that will not respect her as an independent person.

This maintaining of an independent core, however, is traditionally ascribed masculine behaviour or needs. To assert themselves.
So here we have the raw feminity, and yes she is, but coming with that need for being her own.

I think both have deep raw primal feelings, but they deal differently with them.
In negative way Priapus would stalk someone, and Lilith would withdraw her prsence totally (even if it should feel like it would kill herself to do so, but she will not compromise).

posted December 13, 2013 01:28 PM            

in a man`s chart:
Priapus represents his most primal instincts and how he needs to merge with someone else (skin on skin, I mean).

Lilith represents the woman,t hat drives him crazy, cause she comes just as close as to almost touch her, but even though he could love her, he could never posess her. There will always be a part of her, that will belong to only herself.
Probably she will also represent the "temptation" to him, to leave the borders of the ordinary and step into unchartered (emotional) and hence posibly dangerous terrain.

Probably not the woman he thinks of introducing to his family after the first date.
I am not saying she will not be marriage-material, but she will not be, if marriage is for any other reason than listening to their primal attraction to one another (Lilith does not marry for status or friendship or whatever).

posted December 13, 2013 01:32 PM            

Lilith represents the part of herself, that is wild and untamed.
Those instincts and emotions that she might not even admit to herself (ever read "Run with wolves"?)

Priapus most probably will represent the kind of man she might not be able to say "No" to.
A temptation, too, but for her he might be cause he is so persistent in chasing her.
Or maybe it represents the kind of man she wants to be chased by.
I am a bit fuzzy on this one, still.

posted December 13, 2013 02:45 PM            

I wish you could hear me. For the past 5 minutes, it's like I've been watching an intense drama or horror flick. 'OH MY GOD! ... AGGGGHHHH! NO WAY! .... OHHH, MY GOD! HAHAHAHA!' I sound like a crazy person. But you've just knocked SO many things into place, it's been worth it.

His LILITH and MARS are tightly conjunct, on my SUN-PLUTO in my 2H.

I absolutely represent that which he longs to but can never possess. It DOES drive him mad, and he's tried to deny it (or repress it) for the past 3 years. In truth, we couldn't go 6 months of meeting each other without ANY sort of physical relationship. But when I married, that was the death knell to him. ... For another 6 months. Even THAT didn't 'take'. So this past late October, we got back together, and have been taking it slow and cautiously, with good communication.

I'm going to say that the SUN was transiting his PRIAPUS and my SUN/MOON that day (8° SCORPIO).

As to mine ...

Absolutely. 110%.

Lemme put it this way. He'd once off-handedly commented (after some rehearsal, or during a completely inappropriate time - though, of course, we were recording solo, so, alone, at least) that 'he was imagining my serving him tea in the nude'.

(... You can't make this stuff up.)

It was like this:

My SUN-PLUTO-BML are laughing themselves silly, breaking from whatever intense activity they're clearly doing; (they're all superheroines for all I know) to go: 'so, get a load of this turkey! Seriously. Who in their right mind - ?'

While my 20° ARIES PRIAPUS is stuck on one point:

Which tea to serve?

... The overall result was actually me going VERY wide-eyed for the moment and murmuring something like, ' ... Oh.' To which he'd said, 'so. Moving on,' (to the next scene).

DEAR GOD!

These things absolutely made it into the script; how could they NOT? And we just chuckle at their origins.

Meanwhile, his LIBRA MARS is glaring at ARIES BML (also 20°) going, ' ... REALLY! How uncivilised can you be?' Even if LILITH is thinking, ' ... I rather like that idea.'

Hence the, ' ... Moving on.'

The MADHATTER-SUN parallel does not help his SAG ASC's foot-in-mouth a bit. But it amuses my MADHATTER-ASC even if it's in VIRGO.

'OH, PUH-LEASE!' says SUN-PLUTO. But amused? Oh, we can be amused.

Add to all that being a dominatrix when we met, and you've got a recipe for complexity. I'm VERY grateful for it, though. Up to that point, I'd no idea I was just afraid. He really awakened a real desire for sexual connexion I had NEVER known.

I guess MOON-BML / PRIAPUS will do that. Certainly has for me! REALLY explains the intense need for a sexual connexion - which, good God, had been TOTALLY foreign to me. Barely any interest unless it was something novel and I was in control of it.

To WANT to NOT be in control of it? That was even crazier!

posted December 16, 2013 05:14 PM            

His Priapus is on 00 Pisces conjunct his SN in his 12th house.
It is opposite his BML at the end of Leo on his NN; but his Lilith is far away at 18 Virgo.

So his PRIAPUS/SN conjuncts my LILITH/BML in his 12th house / my 3rd house.

his BML is opposite my LILITH/BML.

and both side of this opposition his PRIAPUS/his SN - My LILITH/my BML and on th eother side his BML

are sextile / trine

his SUN/MOON/MC and my SUN/MERCURY in Sagittariu.

---------------

As for my own PRIAPUS it is on 00 Leo in my 8th house / his 5th house, and it squares my Uranus on the cusp of 11th house / in his 7th house.
Uranus being the dispositor of my BML/Lilith - juicy, hu?

While I never really fall for any Leo Suns or Cancer Suns, the Priapus theremakes sense. It is in Leo after all, and I do have a thing for performers, don`t I?
It is that Leonine vibe that could make me fall, could tempt me to surrender to a more earthly kind of connection. In the 8th house, it would pull me deep I suppose. How tempting!

BUT there is Uranus, the disositor of my Lilith/BML, squaring this very Priapus, from the 11th house.
Whenever I feel that temptation to surrender to the primal, sweaty, physical urge for merging, my whole lunar configuration gets into full panic mode. Where would my detached independence remain then?
How could I hover above it all, if I am being sucked into the earthly sphere like this?

Interestingly my Priapus is conjunct his Juno at the end of Cancer in my 8th and his 5th house.
At the same time his Lilith is opposite my Juno (his Lilith in my 9th house, my Juno in his 12th house).

his BML and Priapus are both parellel/ contraparallel my Moon/Uranus/Pluto/Juno set up int he declinations.

posted December 16, 2013 05:17 PM            

his Lilith/Priapus-mp is on 10.02 Sagittarius

conjunct my Neptune on 9.56 Sag
my NN on 10.09 Sag

posted December 16, 2013 06:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I have Lilith and BML within one degree off each other at the end of Aquarius.

His Priapus is on 00 Pisces conjunct his SN in his 12th house.
It is opposite his BML at the end of Leo on his NN; but his Lilith is far away at 18 Virgo.

So his PRIAPUS/SN conjuncts my LILITH/BML in his 12th house / my 3rd house.

his BML is opposite my LILITH/BML.

and both side of this opposition his PRIAPUS/his SN - My LILITH/my BML and on th eother side his BML

are sextile / trine

his SUN/MOON/MC and my SUN/MERCURY in Sagittariu.

---------------

As for my own PRIAPUS it is on 00 Leo in my 8th house / his 5th house, and it squares my Uranus on the cusp of 11th house / in his 7th house.
Uranus being the dispositor of my BML/Lilith - juicy, hu?

While I never really fall for any Leo Suns or Cancer Suns, the Priapus theremakes sense. It is in Leo after all, and I do have a thing for performers, don`t I?
It is that Leonine vibe that could make me fall, could tempt me to surrender to a more earthly kind of connection. In the 8th house, it would pull me deep I suppose. How tempting!

BUT there is Uranus, the disositor of my Lilith/BML, squaring this very Priapus, from the 11th house.
Whenever I feel that temptation to surrender to the primal, sweaty, physical urge for merging, my whole lunar configuration gets into full panic mode. Where would my detached independence remain then?
How could I hover above it all, if I am being sucked into the earthly sphere like this?

Interestingly my Priapus is conjunct his Juno at the end of Cancer in my 8th and his 5th house.
At the same time his Lilith is opposite my Juno (his Lilith in my 9th house, my Juno in his 12th house).

his BML and Priapus are both parellel/ contraparallel my Moon/Uranus/Pluto/Juno set up int he declinations.

---

posted December 16, 2013 11:13 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deliverance:
Hypothetically speaking , how would Lilith Conjunct Priapus double whammy manifest?

---

I'll presume you mean BML, when you say LILITH? Seeing as the PRIAPUS (in a synastry I have where his BML conjuncts my PRIAPUS exactly) is 6° orb conjunct my TRUE BML, that'd be close to a DW.

posted December 17, 2013 01:59 PM            

https://c9.io/astrolet/precious/workspace/swe/doc/swisseph.pdf

The more I read about it (just today read two in depth papers, unfortunately most of the Lilith-studies, that take into account the astronomical calculations, are on German), the more I come to believe that the interpolated or natural Lilith/Priapus is the "true" one, even truer than the so called true Lilith.

For me personally it does not make that much of a difference, as my true and natural Lilith are only half a degree off each other, so it is difficult to tell which one reacted to triggers.
However, I have come across a paper on financial astrology (do not ask me how htat works. lol), in which the author stated that in his research the interpolated Lilith was the only one, who showed consistent reliable results (for this kind of astrology he worked with very tight orbs; matter of minutes up to a degree only, so it is really something to observe that the natural/ interpolated Lilith was triggered every time.).

posted December 17, 2013 04:04 PM            

"His LILITH and MARS are tightly conjunct, on my SUN-PLUTO in my 2H."
Very intense. Bordering insanity. I am just not sure from which side of the border.

The Mars to your Sun and Pluto is certainly an ultra hot, spicy, soul scorching (physical) attraction there.
With his LIlith conjunct your Sun and in your 2nd house, which among other things represents your (sexual) identity, it could very well be that he sees Lilith in you. That woman that comes just as close enough to almost touch, but maintaining her boundaries nevertheless. The woman that drives him crazy and sometimes right over the edge, because no matter the seductive temptation right there, he can`t "have" her. (not in the posessive sense. Yesterday, when writing what I did, in terms of Lilith, a sentence shot through my mind, that did not make it in the post, and tha was: "You cannot change nor posess her. You can only love her.")

"SUN was transiting his PRIAPUS and my SUN/MOON that day (8° SCORPIO)."
Interesting.
The Sun illuminating and triggering his urge to connect and merge.

"While my 20° ARIES PRIAPUS is stuck on one point:"
Your Priapus is conjunct my Chiron exactly.

"dominatrix when we met,"
Dominatrix is a very Lilith-archetype.
She HAS to have the control and power.
Of course we should start wondering what is really lying beneath that steely will to maintain control. She like Chiron is carrying a wound underneath, probably had to learn too many times how it feels to be victimized and powerless (remember Adam? I mean in the beginning she loved him, and yet she needed to leave him cause he was a chauvinistic ...).

The positive thing is of course that she will never compromise her truth and that she is deeply genuine and honest. If she loves, she loves. There is something very pure about her. She doesn`t persuade herself she is in love with someone, just because everyone else is getting married to, her mother likes him (let`s not start with mothers, sore subject for Lilith), he raises her status (as if she would care!).

posted December 17, 2013 04:04 PM            

"His LILITH and MARS are tightly conjunct, on my SUN-PLUTO in my 2H."
Very intense. Bordering insanity. I am just not sure from which side of the border.

The Mars to your Sun and Pluto is certainly an ultra hot, spicy, soul scorching (physical) attraction there.
With his LIlith conjunct your Sun and in your 2nd house, which among other things represents your (sexual) identity, it could very well be that he sees Lilith in you. That woman that comes just as close enough to almost touch, but maintaining her boundaries nevertheless. The woman that drives him crazy and sometimes right over the edge, because no matter the seductive temptation right there, he can`t "have" her. (not in the posessive sense. Yesterday, when writing what I did, in terms of Lilith, a sentence shot through my mind, that did not make it in the post, and tha was: "You cannot change nor posess her. You can only love her.")

"SUN was transiting his PRIAPUS and my SUN/MOON that day (8° SCORPIO)."
Interesting.
The Sun illuminating and triggering his urge to connect and merge.

"While my 20° ARIES PRIAPUS is stuck on one point:"
Your Priapus is conjunct my Chiron exactly.

"dominatrix when we met,"
Dominatrix is a very Lilith-archetype.
She HAS to have the control and power.
Of course we should start wondering what is really lying beneath that steely will to maintain control. She like Chiron is carrying a wound underneath, probably had to learn too many times how it feels to be victimized and powerless (remember Adam? I mean in the beginning she loved him, and yet she needed to leave him cause he was a chauvinistic ...).

The positive thing is of course that she will never compromise her truth and that she is deeply genuine and honest. If she loves, she loves. There is something very pure about her. She doesn`t persuade herself she is in love with someone, just because everyone else is getting married to, her mother likes him (let`s not start with mothers, sore subject for Lilith), he raises her status (as if she would care!).

posted December 17, 2013 04:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deliverance:
Hypothetically speaking , how would Lilith Conjunct Priapus double whammy manifest?

---

posted December 17, 2013 04:19 PM            

I find it curious my DEJANIRA and TRUE LILITH are the same position, 0° SCO, which would indicate that the two are very much entwined; I can see that to be the case. Victimisation in the area of sexual liberty; of even maintaining control over my sexuality, victimised by patriarchal forces.

But BML is exactly conjunct my PLUTO and within 2° of my SUN. I feel that rather intensely. And DEJANIRA is parallel my SUN, so, who's to say exactly? But it would seem my BML is the front-line, and my TRUE LILITH a bit deeper in my psyche. Not sure.

I'm intrigued by your hypothetical, Deliverance. Doesn't sound that hypothetical if you're naming signs, though.

I'd say, an exact double conjunction of BML and PRIAPUS would set an undeniable undercurrent tone of the relationship. Or mere interaction.

My costar and I rather went in swinging, so to speak, since our roles, strangely, very much mimic that exact conjunction.

I'm curious how the male BML feels about it. From his side of things, he's raged against all that he knew to allow himself to let go, to release the repression which has had him in a vise for decades. The terror of physical intimacy has had a sort of do-or-die vibration to it. Greatest desire and most powerful obsession racked with ambivalence, fear, shame, and denial.

It's in my 8H and his 5H, by the way. Conjunct his MOON-NYMPHE-EROS, opposite his MARS-LILITH, conjunct my SUN-PLUTO-BML. Part of very intrinsic natal patterns which became a strong configuration in synastry.

I should add, if PRIAPUS and BML are not being activated in some manner like that, I can't say how felt they'll be.

For me, 'giving into' the needs and desires of my PRIAPUS has been thrilling, horrifying, and slow-moving. But so has his surrendering to his BML - maybe even 'worse' than my issues with PRIAPUS.

posted December 17, 2013 05:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
If you mention BML, which one do you mean exactly?

Mean one? True one? natural one?

---

In my little developing short hand, BML is the mean Lilith, TRUE LILITH, the 'true' calculation, (far as I understand it) and LILITH is 1181.

posted December 17, 2013 10:02 PM            

quote:

---

I'd say, an exact double conjunction of BML and PRIAPUS would set an undeniable undercurrent tone of the relationship. Or mere interaction.

---

quote:

---

My costar and I rather went in swinging, so to speak, since our roles, strangely, very much mimic that exact

---

posted December 17, 2013 11:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deliverance:
Indigo, thank you! Honestly, it's hypothetical - just curious is all
[QUOTE]I'd say, an exact double conjunction of BML and PRIAPUS would set an undeniable undercurrent tone of the relationship. Or mere interaction.

---

Very interesting, that's good to know!

quote:

---

My costar and I rather went in swinging, so to speak, since our roles, strangely, very much mimic that exact

---

I initially read that as "My costar and I rather went swinging"

Ceridwen [/QUOTE]

Hah! Freudian slip, perhaps? Bit of that, too, considering I'm part of that whole alternative lifestyle thing. Monogamish, I'd say, rather than swinging. But, when it comes to my costar, we were oddly exploring much of the same intense dynamics in my work before they appeared intrinsic to our relationship. Odd, actually. Quite eerie, for us both. It was almost like a dry run. A very long, curious dress rehearsal. I honestly think it prepared us for what was to come.

posted December 18, 2013 04:50 AM            

Though I don`t consider the mean one anymore, as it represents an averaged calculation, which smoothes out unpleasant irregularities. But this is not what the astronomoical reality shows.

It seems so far that both natural Lilith and true Lilith do depict actual astronomical realities (though I am still a little fuzzy on their difference).

However Priapus is the complementary pole, the polarity point to natural Lilith. It does not make sense to compare him to true Lilith.

True Lilith`s polarity point is actually opposite her, an axis, like the nodal axis.

Which also meanst that whenever you have True Lilitho pposite another`s True Lilith, it is at the same time a DW of True Lilith conjunct Priapos.