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Author Topic:   Is Erato the feminine version of Eros?
amelia28
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posted August 29, 2014 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for amelia28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
You know sometimes I hate Jude Law`s chart. I can be almost CERTAIN by now that everytime I look up a new pairing, it will be there, and not just as any aspect, but as conjunction or opposition. In this instance it is his KAMA conjunt my RATISBONA with 2 degree orb, also tied to his AMOR conjunct my PSYCHE (same area).


The way these charts interact, is simply outrageous, indecent and annoying. Someone put a stop to that. Where is the petition I can sign?


LOL

I loove jude..hottie. hahaha

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Gabby
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posted August 29, 2014 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know this is long but I found it very interesting, it's comparing the relationships around all the figures in the Eros/Psyche story...Psyche being the human incarnate of Aphrodite.


The tale has great psychological value since it reveals the development of the initiate's relationship with his anima as a result of the initiatory process. In the tale, Eros representing the reproductive passion is transformed through its relationship with Psyche.

Psyche is a mortal incarnation of Eros' mother, Venus or Aphrodite. Since she is mortal, she represents that part of Eros' anima which is closer to consciousness. Venus becomes jealous of Psyche because mortals begin worshipping her beauty, preferring her to an abstract Olympian goddess.

Psyche's appearance in an account of the Eleusinian Mysteries points to the identification between Psyche and Isis, and Aphrodite and Isis. One might think that the goddess, then, fights against herself. In a sense, she does. She protests because of the narrowing of her potential into a finite mortal form.

If Psyche is Venus in diminutive form, Eros actually takes part in a variation on the theme of sacred marriage with his mother/daughter/sister. This repeats the old Egyptian transformation formula of I.A.O. (Isis-Aphosis-Osiris). concerning the mystery of rebirth.

Psyche is a form of Kore, the eternal maiden, the mother goddess in rejuvenated, human form. Therefore, the Eros and Psyche tale is a variation of the Demeter-Kore myth. For the female initiate, this myth represents the deepest experience of the female "ms.teries" of the Self.

For the male initiate, it means a progressive integration of the anima which then leads to an experience of the Self. While he is still mother-complexed, all the form of the goddess are compounded in the figure of the Great Mother. Without transformation he is her eternal lover who is always subject to fragmentation of his personality, (i.e. death and rebirth). The same theme played out in the Dionysian mysteries, where the god of ecstasy is torn limb from limb by the Maenads.

The story of Eros and Psyche on various arcs concerns such important human areas as anima (for a man) and animus (for a woman); it is also a paradigm of developing relationship, and bears a strong message regarding developmental tasks in the natural process of women's (or feminine) consciousness raising.

The action of the archetype of anima/animus means that we project our unconscious idea of the All-Woman or All-Man onto an individual in whom we see this ideal essence. No single person can be the carrier of all the divine attributes or qualities we project onto them. When they fail to live up to our unconscious expectations, the process of consciousness raising begins.

The Venus function is a lens which can magnify or distort. The story of Eros and Psyche reveals a process of deep metamorphosis and renewal where all the values of the feeling function, emotional life, and moral standards gradually gain new significance and purpose.

There is a "change of heart." Eros moves from sexual objectification toward soulful love; Psyche from projection of her masculine qualities toward empowerment. Emotionally, they act out the dynamic of the puer/puella immature relationship in the meantime. This naturally leads toward active introspection on the mental level, which results in spiritual consciousness raising -- a renewed sense of empathy and compassion.

This myth resonates with the Tarot Trump, THE LOVERS. The Crowley deck shows an exalted version of the sacred marriage. But more mundane decks generally show a man flanked on either side by two women competing for his attention. He is in an unconscious relationship with both the more material, motherly type and the young sexual counterpart who probably represents an immature anima or soul image.

These female figures are sometimes polarized as light and dark anima figures. If we view the young man as the immature ego, this card can also represent a woman with a split between the physical and spiritual aspects of love. Sometimes this dynamic becomes concretized, "acted out," in life through a love triangle.

The ego must bear responsibility for any action it takes in response to the conflicting figures. In the psychology of both en and women, male figures symbolize aspects of the body, emotions, and soul. The polarity is between sexual passions, secret feelings, and spiritual strivings which exert a definite hold on the ego.

Each is compelling in a magical, magnetic way. The ego cannot detach itself from either of them in outer reality since each belongs to its inner reality. If the ego stands its ground, and endures the tension of conflicting desires, it can become free of the spell of unconscious projection in either direction.

We must come to terms with both instinctual draws to gain full stature. This is a step toward individuation. Otherwise we remain in thrall to our feminine, instinctual side which conditions our emotions. We live out a frozen, trance-like state of mystified love, rather than mature, soulful love.

The challenge is to connect our spiritual and emotional life, through passionate involvement in all of life. Then we find ourselves in a new relationship with others and in harmony with ourselves, facing each individual conflict and suffering through it to its resolution in transcendence.

By facing our fears and pains -- becoming conscious of our conflicts -- we can find peace. New realizations appear in their embryonic stage as conflicts which offer use choices in life. These decision points become either our life's path or roads-not-taken.

Eros, like Fate, is symbolic of the fatal power of attraction which brings opposites together. He is the incarnating life principle, which ushers in the irrational, passionate intensity which makes transformation possible. He "turns up the heat" on the psychic process, he is that spiritual or divine fire which can unite with instinct.

PHYSICAL FORM

In the creation myths of many cultures, Primordial Wholeness divided into two polarizing aspects. Together these are known as the "syzygy" and indicate an archetypal coupling where one aspect is never separated from the other.

In the "impersonal" aspect of lunar (or Venusian) experience, the Great Goddess is never separated from her masculine Son-Lover. They are locked in an eternal fascination for one another. One implies the other for wholeness. They exemplify the soul-spirit relationship on a naive level of psychological development.

On the "personal" level this tandem is expressed as anima/animus. They are the contrasexual component within us all. In other words, these soul figures embody our latent capacities for expression and realization of the traits normally associated with the opposite sex.

Thus, the animus leads a woman to the outer world and promotes her ability in focused, rational thinking; conversely, the anima guides a man (or our ego) through the inner worlds of relationship. Since anima and animus build a bridge between the conscious and unconscious perspectives, they function as mediators between the known and the "unknown."

This is the level of psychological "complex" where there is a blending of archetypal realities with our individual experiences. Complexes function like psychological "strange attractors", magnetically centering portions of our energy within their particular patterns of expression. This magnetic draw is the attractive force of Eros coupled with the psychic urge toward manifestation.

The imagery of anima/animus is based in archetypal symbolism and in childhood memories of significant others of the opposite sex. This includes parental attitudes and behavior, grandparents' influence, siblings, first-love, caregivers, mentors, and cultural expectations and norms.

Anima/animus determines our conceptualization of the ideal mate, and is responsible for such phenomena as "love at first sight," and "star-crossed lovers." It takes the elements of fate and destiny and combines them in an impersonal formula, which paradoxically feels totally unique.

Anima/animus represents the balancing of masculine and feminine traits in us as individuals. This balancing is a form of sacred marriage, a union which produces a magickal child which is the higher Self, much like Eros and Psyche give birth to Voluptas, deep and abiding pleasure or satisfaction.

The animus is the masculine personification of the soul. He carries both a transcendent spiritual aspect and a personal aspect. He is shown in the tale as a beautiful creature, whom Psyche is at first convinced is a terrible monster -- sort of an "all men are beasts" programming. Later, she learns his true nature.

Anima/animus are potential guides to the depths of the unconscious, forming a bridge to daily life. They are factors which transcend consciousness, both light and dark. So in a relationship which seem to have everything going for it, there can be friction or "animosity" produced by the unconscious forces (complexes) operating below the surface.

Most of these troubles stem from projecting the anima/animus image onto our loved ones, then maneuvering them into fulfilling our expectations. Internal conflicts come from the split nature of anima/animus which we experience in modern life. This again revolves mainly around the gulf between the "spiritual" and "sensual" aspects of the inner figure.

For example, a Madonna/***** complex, which is a split between the holy mother and the erotic love goddess. Or, the spiritual animus might be projected onto the figure of a wise man, guru or ghostly lover to whom a woman faithfully goes in her fantasy-life, or onto an idealized brother/sister relationship devoid of sexual options.

Reality must be found between idealized (virtually non-existent) relationships and degraded relationships. The sensual animus may be presented as the darker gods of impersonal sexuality, phallic or obscene in nature.

In any event, the animus represents a woman's need for creative expression. The more fully she can manifest this trait, the better her inner relationship to the animus within becomes. He provides her with inner light, not inspiration which is a function of anima nature, the core of her Self.

Anima/animus excite those feelings of longing, awe, fear of the unknown, and incomprehensibility. They imply that when we love deeply, we open ourselves to the possibility of betrayal and the pain of separation. We open ourselves to wounding, and this very woundedness is our openness. The transpersonal power of love can appear as an obsession or possession by another, against which rational thought is no protection.

Eros and Psyche represent the experience of this emotional-sexual level and its projections, coupled with the exercise of discrimination between what is archetypal and what is personal in life.

EMOTIONAL IMAGE

How does this myth of the divine lovers play our in modern emotional life? It is a metaphor of psychological growth -- "bringing up Psyche." It identifies certain developmental tasks fundamental to mature identity and the ability to love fully, such as sorting out feelings, setting appropriate boundaries, owning projections, developing a dispassionate Observer Self, and empowerment with compassion.

When relationships get stalled this process is stuck in the immature stage. John Bradshaw calls these "mystified relationships," still enmeshed in the dynamics of the very early family life of the partners. The issues of safety and trust are unresolved. These are relationships which stick together for the sake of the children, and the "children" are the regressive personalities of the lovers!

The healthy Eros/Psyche relationship is one of empathy and intimacy, safety and passion. It is joyful and totally relaxed. When conflicts come up, as they inevitably will, there are means of negotiation. This is "soulful" love which includes many results of self-consciousness. It is generative in nature. There is bonding, commitment rather than enmeshment, vulnerability, self-disclosure, sensuality, ecstasy, as well as respect, caring, belonging, togetherness, toleration, and constancy.

Jeffrey Satinover examines the role of the Self in relationship in a Jungian tape, "Being Separate, Being Together." The talk is from a Jungian conference on wounding and healing in relationships. Every analyst knows that healthy loving relationships are more healing than all the therapy in the world.

The tale of Eros and Psyche is with us today in the psychological complex known as "puer/puella," (boy/girl). They are stuck at the adolescent stage of development. This same complex is imaged in the Tarot trump, The Lovers.

Much of psychic life remains hidden as in the initial stages of the myth. This includes secret thoughts, feelings, fears, criticisms, anticipations, etc. A psychological initiation occurs when we are suddenly forced to "go within" ourselves and discover or "own" the subconscious processes operating there. Gradually, we begin to recognize that relationship involves chronic "wounding and healing." In the myth, for example, Psyche spills hot oil on Eros while trying to see what he looks like during his sleep -- trying to see what his unconscious relationship with her is.

In love, the root experience is of the archetype of the Self. The broad, deep emotional experience coupled with detachment facilities from impulse to action. This Self is the root of emotions when the ego is identified with it. The Self remains ineffable, or unknown, and is too sacred to be expressed in words.

We experience the Self as our inner childlike nature when we act our a pattern of cyclic instability in our lovelife. We don't relate "adult to adult," but "wounded child to wounded child." Neediness on both parts keeps the legitimate needs of both from being met. These are periods of despair and exaltation, wounding and healing.

This is a variation of the archetype of the dying and resurrecting god. In its self-reflecting narcissism, this complex no stable sense of identity. We ask ourselves, "Who am I, and why can't I behave as I'd like to?" Some people seek therapy for this very absence of a stable sense of identity, after trying to form a false identity as a couple.

Love brings alterations and fluctuations between feelings of fear, of "being nobody," or worthless when we are wounded, or feeling special and precious when things are going well. These feelings may change rapidly depending on the emotional climate, and this is an unsettling feeling.

The chronic emotion is a feeling of overwhelming longing for support of the loved one, coupled with feelings of extreme emptiness when the beloved is gone. Possessive jealousy comes from projecting our own negative self-image onto the rival who seems to succeed in an area where we have failed the loved one.

When the Self begins operating in an individual, the ego automatically begins acting defensively to protect itself against the intolerable sense of fragmentation which it anticipates will follow. The feeling of being unique and whole alternates with self-defense against feeling wounded and worthless.

The defense consists of cutting off the roots of all intense emotional experience with the beloved, and may even extend into other friendships. Some people seek solace in the predictable gratification of alcohol or drugs as substitutes for the unpredictable pleasures of love.

The Self's proper role in relationship is concerned with self-analysis or getting to know one's inner workings better. Each marriage or relationship consists of a union among four aspects -- the normal consciousness of the partners and their subconscious or inner Self.

Thus, a woman loves not only a man as he behaves in outer life, but his inner "feminine" soul; a man embraces his wife and her inner "masculine" soul. This relationship was depicted in alchemy as the marriage of the alchemist and his mystic sister who is his inner nature.

Instead of depending on one another for a sense of self-value (co-dependence), self-esteem emerges from within through reflective introversion. We can mirror, validate, and support ourselves when we listen to our inner nurturing voice. When we explore our own personal depths, we come into our daily relationships as whole people. Then we can form truly interdependent, reciprocal relationships.

"Falling in love" is a vehicle for the experience of the self. This experience, or even yearning for it, influences our daily life and human experience tremendously. As they say, "Love makes the world go around." Yet it automatically means there will be a fragmentation of personality following sooner or later, since an unconscious dynamic has been unleashed. The old personality must be dissolved before the new structure co-created by the partners can be established.

Difficulties and disappointments follow when the other doesn't reflect back the expected sense of specialness or idealness. We often hold ideals of relationship which we have never seen and could not exist in real life. In an attempt to actualize our fantasy life, we unconsciously compel or manipulate the other person to fulfill it. There is a simultaneous attachment or identification of the ego with the vast potential of the Self, which no partner can maintain.

When one partner doesn't fulfill expectations, the addictive yearning to fulfill expectations, the addictive yearning to experience the specialness of the Self changes into an indifference to the other which is not genuine. This is a reactionary defense against the Self in that both the unique and fragmentary periods produce pain for the ego. It is difficult for the ego to "live up" to the idealized image, also.

There is a pressure on the ego to live the demands of the Self, or cut them off entirely in a negative defense move. Longing and disappointment change to seeming indifference and then the person begins to seek outward. This is a compulsive drive to recreate the appearance of the Self through yet another lover.

The feeling of jealousy in the deserted party comes from feeling possessive of the lover as something of one's own, and experiencing the loss of Self, or even fear of the loss of Self. The type of attachment that believes the other is responsible for the experience of the specialness of the self leads inevitably to painful separations.

There is a "way of being together" in which both partners maintain separate identities. They are distinct yet conjoined. In this liberated experience there is emotional intensity combined with detachment from compulsion. When each person experiences the Self with some degree of autonomy from identification with the ego, there is reduction of the strain in maintaining the Self of the other. We cease to make such exaggerated demands on one another. We let go of the reactionary stage of power struggles, and become emotionally independent.

The power struggles (counterdependence) in relationship aren't for power, per se. They manipulations and desperate maneuverings of the partners to maintain their individual sense of Self. These struggles are a natural stage which comes prior to true independence, individuation of self-actualization.

The associations of a complex can be detached from an image which should be archetypal. We can consciously separate our what is personal and human from what is archetypal and essentially divine. We don't need to confuse our lovers with divine archetypal powers, though we each carry a divine component.

When we reown our projections, the other doesn't carry the burden of our spirituality for us. The spiritual problem is no longer disguised as a relationship problem. Our relationship with the higher power becomes direct. When each individual has an internal relationship with the Self, the other partner is not forced to carry and reinforce the projection of the Self. They are no longer exposed to the intense disappointment of the lover when they inevitably fail to live up to god-like qualities which only a higher power can carry.

It goes on...... http://www.oocities.org/iona_m/Virtualtantra/erospsyche.html

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Gabby
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posted August 29, 2014 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amelia28:
What I mean is if Eratos is the female version of Eros and Eros the male counterpart of Eratos then Eros aspecting Eratos I would think is meaningful.

In your case his Eratos squares your Eros tightly! and you two clearly have some nice aspects. The list is impressive I think. Now I get why you like him. Out of all the things you have posted about him I think this list explains the attraction for him and him for you best.

ADD:

Oh so this is not the facebook guy! I was not really feeling the facebook guy for you anyways.. Glad this other guys wants to get serious; you guys have some very nice aspects.


Thank you! I like him a lot more, the aspects to both guys were very similar but our house overlays must make all the difference in their level of interest. I'm glad I got to see so bluntly how the house overlays affect attraction and seriousness in a relationship.

The guy I'm seeing has Valentine on my moon also, exact sextile my NN and trine his Venus, I love that!

My cap Eros/Valentine/IC tightly trine his Saturn and oppose his Lust/Aphrodite/Lilith in his 1st house.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 29, 2014 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by amelia28:
LOL

I loove jude..hottie. hahaha


He is an amazing stage-actor. Great presence.

And he was the first one to wish me a good New Year this year. lol

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PlutoSurvivor
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posted August 29, 2014 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSurvivor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
btw, Erato is asteroid #62

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IndigoDirae
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posted August 29, 2014 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IndigoDirae     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
My ERATO is on 15 Sag, opposing my Karma and sextile my Moon.

I find it sweet somehow that his ERATO is conjunct my VALENTINE exact. And his MUSA falling onto my AC-Neptune-NN. A cute little aspect.


We have that, too! DW! Oh, how funny. I never thought much of that outside of the obvious. Fate and I, that is.

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Ceridwen
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posted August 29, 2014 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This was synastry though for me. No DW. Just his ERATO on my Valentine (27 Scorpio).

I like looking up these. Erato. Musa. Sappho. Sappho is a biggie. lol

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I'm so cappy
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posted August 29, 2014 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
You know sometimes I hate Jude Law`s chart. I can be almost CERTAIN by now that everytime I look up a new pairing, it will be there, and not just as any aspect, but as conjunction or opposition. In this instance it is his KAMA conjunt my RATISBONA with 2 degree orb, also tied to his AMOR conjunct my PSYCHE (same area).


The way these charts interact, is simply outrageous, indecent and annoying. Someone put a stop to that. Where is the petition I can sign?


I think your synastry needs an exorcism.


------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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Gabby
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posted August 29, 2014 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found some interesting conjunction between Rati and Kama in our charts....

A missed step...his NN virgo@18.45
His Ratisbona saggy@19.05
My DNA saggy@17.35
My Moon virgo@18.32

My Kama saggy@21.21
My P of Fortune saggy@22.52
My Siva saggy@22.48
His DNA libra@23.10

My Umtata saggy@25.24<~ not sure who that is?
His Moon saggy@25.45
His Siva saggy@28.22
My Mars gem@29.33

His Umtata virgo@9.48
His Ratisbona aries@9.54
My Eros cap@9.50

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I'm so cappy
Knowflake

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posted August 29, 2014 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I'm so cappy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But Ratisbona is a city.
And Umtata... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mthatha

------------------
I'm sooo happy! I mean, cappy.

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Gabby
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posted August 29, 2014 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
But Ratisbona is a city.
And Umtata... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mthatha


Were just checking it out to see how it aspects, it's the closest I could find out of all the asteroids...why not see how it plays in synastry? Its the only way to tell if it relates!
Well, I guess I could also look at it's founding chart also to see if aspects with Kamas founding chart.

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