posted April 25, 2015 07:41 AM            

He did not want to bow to God.

He wanted to be "the top" and this is a lack of humility( and holier than thou attitude) to make it everyday and practical, which is what I, always, try to do

They want to top everyone in any given(or most) conversation, situation etc

If a person has a strong Lucifer and a Sun/Merc combust, everything gets more pronounced because the combust increases being self centered and hence the lack of humility is exacerbated.

Then, you have someone who is a nuclear "know it all"

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posted April 25, 2015 04:28 PM            

I kind of see Lucifer as the mirror that reflects things on somewhat of a merciless level.. But, it isn't quite that simple. Somewhat of a vigilante type energy, but more complex.. Lucifer has to be pushed VERY far before it's truest darkness is brought out, it seems.

Lucifer to me, is controlled chaos to a certain degree.. Hmm.. There are a few pages on this site dealing with Lucifer.. You may want to look into some of the other pages on here about it.

The only thing about Lucifer that sticks out as 'know it all' to me, is that Lucifer is sometimes associated with pride.

But, lucifer is also associated with rebellion in a sense.. Lucifer could be the revolutionary that would go to extremes others possibly wouldn't.. But as I said, it seems as if it is an energy that needs to be triggered, which takes a lot to happen.

Personally, I have my sun in the 8th house opposite pluto in Scorpio.. My sun is conjunct Chaos and aspecting Lucifer.

I'll expand more on how I personally see Lucifer later on.

Of course, I could be a bit off in the way I see Lucifer.. But, Lucifer has been somewhat of an interesting Being to me.. I've spent some time looking into his energy over the last couple of years.

I feel like l Lucifer is somewhat of a being of Grey-Morals.. But, will generally stick with the higher path unless provoked on a deep level.

posted April 25, 2015 05:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Anemone:
Nightingale, see what I wrote if it helps you...In my humble opinion, and this is how I ve seen it manifested, Uranus 'rebeliousness' is not catastrophic or carries the extremes of Lucifer. Uranus is quirky, innovative, HUMANITARIAN, rebel -yes - but it doesnt have the dark potential of Lucifer. POTENTIAL.
As I said, Lucifer is the Light-Bearer...it carries brilliance, great strength, enlightenment but it often comes with a price...its not necessarily 'bad' energy, but it is AMORAL energy - Lucifer will break down bariers, the means would justify the end, the purpose would be much more important than the path one would take to get there. It wont necessarily manifest in 'dark' ways but if need be, moral tenets will not stand in the way of its purpose.

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Taken from the thread 'Sun Conjunct Lucifer'

posted April 25, 2015 05:10 PM            

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posted April 25, 2015 07:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The story of Lucifer is spiritual pride.

He did not want to bow to God.

He wanted to be "the top" and this is a lack of humility( and holier than thou attitude) to make it everyday and practical, which is what I, always, try to do

They want to top everyone in any given(or most) conversation, situation etc

If a person has a strong Lucifer and a Sun/Merc combust, everything gets more pronounced because the combust increases being self centered and hence the lack of humility is exacerbated.

Then, you have someone who is a nuclear "know it all"

---

But you realize you are essentially calling yourself a know-it-all then since you have Lucifer conjunct Venus, right?

The reason I know this is because when I first started analyzing my professor's chart, I put in a bunch of asteroids, including Lucifer. Since you have the same birthdate, you have this by default.

IDK, I would reconsider this thought because this implies that if you don't have Lucifer strongly aspected then you aren't a know-it-all, but if it is strongly aspected, then you are. I feel a more neutral stance should be taken on this asteroid, not a black or white good or bad personality.

quote:

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Originally posted by Vajra:
As for the asteroid - I tend to take the literal meaning "light bearer" for Lucifer, but also take into account that in the Anglo-saxon cultural consciousness there is this notion of it denoting the devil. I've found the asteroid prominent in some very non-devilish individuals (such as A. Schweitzer) so it cannot possibly always mean the negative things often associated with it. Also, on a more personal note, my boyfriend has it conj. Sun and I'm sure I would have spotted the horns long ago, he's also not a know-it-all, far from it, in fact he's very humble (one could say too humble) even in his areas of expertise. But it does sometimes show up prominent in the charts of awful criminals etc., so I guess like every astro placement, it has a bright and a darker side. Funnily, several perceptive people who've met my boyfriend remarked to me afterwards that he's a "luminous" kind of person. This always made me think of his Lucifer conj. Sun placement!

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OH- yeah I forgot about the Christian saints, I was thinking of the devil! Thank you for the education, you can kind of tell after leaving Catholicism I have not kept up on my religious history lol. I've looked at this asteroid in several charts, and I've never really thought of it as bad thing. The luminous description is perfect too. I mean of course the asteroid can neutral, but cultural consciousness better fits it. This totally makes sense and fits the chart of Schweitzer. Speaking of, I still owe you that chart analysis- I haven't forgot.

quote:

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Originally posted by ReadingTheStars95:
Lucifer, from my experience, resonates an interesting energy.. I plan to expand on this later.. But, I see lucifer as neither good or bad in and of itself, rather, it isn't as afraid to break or go against boundaries/societal constructs.

I kind of see Lucifer as the mirror that reflects things on somewhat of a merciless level.. But, it isn't quite that simple. Somewhat of a vigilante type energy, but more complex.. Lucifer has to be pushed VERY far before it's truest darkness is brought out, it seems.

Lucifer to me, is controlled chaos to a certain degree.. Hmm.. There are a few pages on this site dealing with Lucifer.. You may want to look into some of the other pages on here about it.

The only thing about Lucifer that sticks out as 'know it all' to me, is that Lucifer is sometimes associated with pride.

But, lucifer is also associated with rebellion in a sense.. Lucifer could be the revolutionary that would go to extremes others possibly wouldn't.. But as I said, it seems as if it is an energy that needs to be triggered, which takes a lot to happen.

Personally, I have my sun in the 8th house opposite pluto in Scorpio.. My sun is conjunct Chaos and aspecting Lucifer.

I'll expand more on how I personally see Lucifer later on.

Of course, I could be a bit off in the way I see Lucifer.. But, Lucifer has been somewhat of an interesting Being to me.. I've spent some time looking into his energy over the last couple of years.

I feel like l Lucifer is somewhat of a being of Grey-Morals.. But, will generally stick with the higher path unless provoked on a deep level.

---

Interesting- thank you! I'll definitely search the archives as well. It definitely could be rebellion as well. I wish I had Lucifer aspecting in my chart, it would be cool to see this used in a constructive manner, such as cultural consciousness.

Thanks for the quote too- definitely some food for thought! This asteroid is quite interesting now that I have a better grasp on it.

quote:

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Originally posted by GemBird82:

Well

I my opinion,
( it may sound a bit contradictory, forgive me )

It seems like Knowledge (or should I say Enlightment? ) is a reflection of a Triad.

And matters concerned with "light" are related to another popular Triad, indeed.

15, 17 , 21

And Lucifer would be the 1st of them. - The Magician
Because the 1st step of the 'enlightment' process it's the most risky.
But not necessary bad.

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posted April 25, 2015 11:03 PM            

So.. According to that specific thread, and going by what it says in it(I haven't read the full story dealing with Lucifer, so I am going specifically off of what that thread said):

Personally, if I was in Lucifer's position, I wouldn't know what to do..

He was told to bow to God's creation of man.. But, he was probably conflicted because he was put into a position in which he had to bow for another being outside of God himself. Of course, I would say I would want to bow out of respect.. But yet at the same time, I would be conflicted. I would be being told to bow to something outside of God, which was something that would have never before even had been pondered.

So, as far as I can see, that can be seen as pride.. but it can also be seen as him willingly giving up his position in heaven, in order to not bow to something he believed to be below God (and, depending on how you look at it, himself)

In a sense, if he was willing to give up his position in heaven, to keep his reverence towards God, and God only, I could actually see that as its own form of self-sacrifice and humility.

Of course, as I said.. There would also be the argument of pride since it is seen he simply didn't bow because he found himself 'above humans' but, to me it doesn't seem quite that simple.

In this given context, it could be argued he rebelled because he didn't believe it was right to bow to any other entity outside of God Himself. I am guessing Lucifer knew what he was doing, and he knew the consequences, but couldn't will himself to bow.

As I said.. I could see bowing out of respect.. But it still remains that he would be bowing to something outside of God.. Even if it was one of God's creations..

posted April 25, 2015 11:13 PM            

I just looked. It is 4 degrees which is too wide BUT if I did, I would accept what it said.

I, personally, don't understand people who will not accept their placements and want to say something is not what it is.

How can you have any hope of any change if you deny what your chart says.

I see things in different terms than many people on here.

I am a Bible believer and one BIG difference is that we believe in right and wrong and we believe in good and evil.

The current New Age philosophy makes everything "good"

I do not agree with that.

Hence, for me, if I had Lucifer conjunct venus, I would see what it had to teach me about pride.

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posted April 25, 2015 11:17 PM            

I, almost did. I came very close to really bad things happening because I was foolish and was not acting with integrity.

God saved me, really.

After that, I did not act so foolishly BUT I had to accept what Aldebaran meant in order to learn.

It rewards you with honor, prestige and good things BUT if you do not act with integrity, you will fall down into disagrace.

That is it's meaning.

I can't obfuscate the meanings of things, whether it be Lucifer or Nessus and whether *I* have it or not.

It doesn't matter if *I* look bad. I want to learn what my chart has to teach me

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posted April 26, 2015 01:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stawr:
I have Lucifer conjunct ASC

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posted April 26, 2015 04:00 AM            

But this is one of the ways I'm viewing the transits of 1930 Lucifer, as possibly related to or indicating course-changing decisions one may find yourself in, that almost has no win-win solution to it.

Timing for needs or issues which present themselves and involve elements of making moral decisions which may consequently deeply impact and influence your life's current trajectory and path heading. Needing to consider a somewhat devilish choice that pivots on a razor-like edge and may go against your ethical grain and moral standards.

I've noticed also that Lucifer was his name before he was cast out of Heaven. After the fall from Heaven, his name was then referred to as Satan.

posted April 26, 2015 07:38 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stawr:
I have Lucifer conjunct ASC

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Do you feel you have to tell others "how to do things better", as if you way/thoughts/opinion/POV is always the better one. I don't feel that in you, myself.

I can feel it when I deal with people. I had two girls I was helping with the charts, free of charge.

I spent a lot of time helping them. Then, they would argue about everything.

One had Lucifer conj the NN and the other had it conjunct a personal planet.

It was the energy of "one ups man". It was not a discussion for discussion sake but to show me they 'knew more".

That, in essence, is Lucifer.

Here is a Lucifer song.

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posted April 26, 2015 07:44 AM            

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posted April 26, 2015 01:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Do you feel you have to tell others "how to do things better", as if you way/thoughts/opinion/POV is always the better one. I don't feel that in you, myself.

I can feel it when I deal with people. I had two girls I was helping with the charts, free of charge.

I spent a lot of time helping them. Then, they would argue about everything.

One had Lucifer conj the NN and the other had it conjunct a personal planet.

It was the energy of "one ups man". It was not a discussion for discussion sake but to show me they 'knew more".

That, in essence, is Lucifer.

Here is a Lucifer song.

---

Though Lucifer conjuncts my ASC, Lucifer is in my 12th house. So I definitely see things that could be done better, but I will usually keep it to my self.

For example where I work, the room I'm in needs lots of improvement. I work in a full day preschool (a catholic one too) the kids have lunch in there and throw out the trash. In the room. So after lunch one part of the room smells like food garbage! Its gross, if I walked by the trash last week and I almost gagged! I don't know how the lead teacher stands it. The trash should seriously be taken out after lunch. Now that I am going to school for early childhood, I see all the things that bug me, that licensing people would have a problem with too.
I talk to my co workers about it and they feel the same way. But you know, it's the lead teachers class room and if that's how she wants things to go, that's on her.

Sometimes I be on a total cleaning kick! Wich is pretty miraculous because I was not the most disciplined child when it came to chores. I take more after my mom who is a pack rat. It's pretty bad, sometimes my sister and I think she is becoming a hoarder.

posted April 26, 2015 01:52 PM            

Examples:

Adults who say it's a child's fault an adult tried to touch them inappropriately.

Ex boyfriend telling his friends I NEVER pay on dates. Just because he gets the tab more.

Pots calling the kettle black.

When people don't respect boundaries.

posted April 26, 2015 03:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBHkmDWgmIA

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posted April 26, 2015 03:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ReadingTheStars95:

Hmm.. How do you think that works out for you?

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Well I don't really seem like "dark" person.
My Lucifer tendencies are definitely there. But they are more hidden with it being in my 12th house.
Plus I have a Scorpio Moon beneath the surface of my Gemini ASC, and Aries Sun.

I can surprise people who are getting to know me, if I say something kind of dark.

I was at a party over the weekend, and even added a more "hard core" looking headband to my outfit, wore fish nets, and high heels with metal studs on them. And I still shock people if I say something dark. haha!
So I realize no matter how I dress, when I am in an outgoing mood at a party. I am going to come across as "happy go sunshine!" LOL

Plus I have asteroid Wild conjunct IC. IC is more hidden too...So I think that's another placement for surprising people when they see other layers of my personality.

Anyways back to Lucifer and ways I see it play out.
I was raised Christian/Catholic. I my family was the kind of Catholics that only went to church on Easter and Christmas for the most part. My dad has been Catholic his whole life and was burned out on the whole go to church every Sunday, and go to Catholic school Mon-Fri.
I would go to Bible camps with my friends. By the time I was 14 was when I started to question my faith. You see I was catholic, I went to catechism. And for years I went to this born again Christian Bible camps. The whole being born again thing never made any sense to me. I remember being a 9 year old at a Bible camp and everyone being at the church. The first time having these young counselors trying to explain Jesus dying and how we must save ourselves. All the girls in my camp were sobbing. I was so confused, to why they were sobbing. And I felt so weird just sitting there not sobbing like everyone else. So then I started to fake it. And then my buddy told me to go up and pray. So I went up there and pretty much telepathically said to God "I have no idea what's going on right now. But I hope everyone is okay." And sat back down like "good I don't have to fake cry anymore"
I went to Bible camps for 5 years and had being born again explained every time, but still never made any sense to me. I grasped the concept more as I got older, would "ask Jesus into heart every summer...but honestly I feel nothing.
The worst Christian advice I ever got was "read the Bible for answers" it left me with more questions.
I started asking my counselor things like "How are we all here if Adam and Eve had two sons?" "Keep reading the Bible for the answers"
"I know a lot of Jewish people who are nice good people, are they going to go to hell because they are Jewish?" "Yes they are."
"Do our pets go to heaven?" "I don't know, they Bible doesn't say"
Plus when my counselors found out I was Catholic, they told me that it was wrong to be Catholic. I was suppose to get my Confirmation that year. So after Bible camp...I decided that I needed to do my research. I didn't go to catechism that year and read the Bible.
By the time I was 17, I was done with praying to God.
Has anyone ever watched the comedian George Carlin talk about religion. Because the first time I did my reaction was "wow this guy says what I'm thinking out loud!"
Anyways, I find that astrology works better for getting answers over praying.

I have respect for Catholic people though. My entire dad's side is Catholic and they are cool people. One of my great uncle's is a priest. I remember going to some kind of celebration for him when I was 18, I asked a much younger priest, "if a Saint's body doesn't decompose like everyone else corpse then how come we put remains of their bones in gold cup things. Wouldn't we want to not chop up their bodies and sent their bones to various Catholic Churches and prove that it's true that their bodies stay perfectly preserved when they die?"
He was unable to answer.

I've also got up and walked out of my mom's church and did not come back in, because the Pastor said "if gay marriage was legal, then people will want to marry animals."
Do I really need to explain how stupid that statement is!?

posted April 26, 2015 03:45 PM            

Due to his great beauty and magnificence, he got lifted up with pride. He wanted all God's worship for himself. He was NOT dark when he was Lucifer.

When Lucifer rebelled against God, he was thrown out of Heaven( with the angels who joined him)

He was re named Satan, which means the adversary.

Asteroids HAVE to stay true to the stories/myths/accounts etc.

If WE don't like that, that is OUR problem, but the story must be distilled down to it's core truth, the best that we can.

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