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Author
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Topic: Amor conjunct Swindle natally.. affecting relationships
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yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 02, 2015 02:37 PM
  
I'm presently in love with somebody who identifies as a shiester. I'm having a lot of trouble reconciling this with my wider ethical frame of reference. I have Amor conjunct Swindle natally at 7 Aquarius I think. Should I just relax and accept that among the other 300 signs this person and I are meant to be together, this is just another one? I'm having trouble with that. I don't want to be personally taken advantage of and I don't appreciate dishonesty in others--I am honest to a fault myself. He is mainly very honest; he's even honest about being a shiester/"salesman" What to do... IP: Logged |
Gabby
Moderator Posts: 7020
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posted August 02, 2015 04:37 PM
Where is his swindle? How does it aspect in his chart?
How does it aspect in your chart? You would have an understand and ability to use ways, swindle in a positive way....to protect those you love, but that does not mean that's how he uses these abilities. So be careful!
I have swindle and lie conjunct my Venus...I am aware of the need at times and have the ability to lie to protect those I love, but I do not like lying and will not do it without a higher purpose, like someone i love being mistreated and need someone to help them. Perhaps the person who's hurting them is not worthy of the truth because they are liars themselves. My ability works to serve and build not to hurt and be destructive. Make sure the person you are dealing with has the same kind of conscious regarding these abilities as you, your swindle/Amor couldn't be use to hurt...Amor wouldn't allow it, well it wouldn't unless these are aspecting negatively a personal planet and causing a stressor in your heart or conscious. IP: Logged |
hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 1299
From: Miami for now....
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted August 02, 2015 07:06 PM
Hello,I have swindle conjunct pluto under 1d in the 10th. I am a therapist and I like to help people gain insight and grow by breaking down the lies they tell themselves. Pluto rules my 11th and 12th, my desire to find the truth and uncover the truth goes beyond its uses related to therapy, the unconscious and subconscious. I also delve deeply into social psychology and how the masses are manipulated and lied to by the media, our educational system and the government to protect specials interests and certain agendas. I am fascinated by cognitive distortions, cognitive biases, why marketing and advertising works, why people don't want to see the truth or are susceptible to lies, why people chose to stay sleep instead of question and change their perceptions etc... All of this and additional related topics of this nature fascinate me and it makes me less susceptible to lies on a macro scale. I considered going into advertisement but did not want to use this gift to manipulate, instead I gravitated more towards becoming a lawyer or therapist, I wanted to empower people, not con them.
I guess my point is that you cannot see Lie or swindle in a chart and panic, its just not that simple, it never is.
I should add swindle conjunct pluto semisextile my Sun-Horus conjunction and pluto is part of a golden yod with my moon and chiron.
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Gabby
Moderator Posts: 7020
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posted August 02, 2015 09:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
Hello,I have swindle conjunct pluto under 1d in the 10th. I am a therapist and I like to help people gain insight and grow by breaking down the lies they tell themselves. Pluto rules my 11th and 12th, my desire to find the truth and uncover the truth goes beyond its uses related to therapy, the unconscious and subconscious. I also delve deeply into social psychology and how the masses are manipulated and lied to by the media, our educational system and the government to protect specials interests and certain agendas. I am fascinated by cognitive distortions, cognitive biases, why marketing and advertising works, why people don't want to see the truth or are susceptible to lies, why people chose to stay sleep instead of question and change their perceptions etc... All of this and additional related topics of this nature fascinate me and it makes me less susceptible to lies on a macro scale. I considered going into advertisement but did not want to use this gift to manipulate, instead I gravitated more towards becoming a lawyer or therapist, I wanted to empower people, not con them.
I guess my point is that you cannot see Lie or swindle in a chart and panic, its just not that simple, it never is.
I should add swindle conjunct pluto semisextile my Sun-Horus conjunction and pluto is part of a golden yod with my moon and chiron.
Wow H, this is very interesting to learn about you and what a great way to use this conjunction! I have libra Pluto/Sado/Einstein/Discovery on my AC, they trine my gemini Psyche and aqua Spirit. I feel compelled to understand the psyche and how abuse twists our minds at subconscious levels and that in turn twists our emotions and desires at their core. I've done so much research into finding the self destructive nature within all of us and how it developes in childhood then manifests in our lives as adults. Ultimately this is where Sado comes from, no matter if it's directed at others or ourselves it's self destructive and self abuse that creates these kinds of desires.
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yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 12:54 AM
hypatia-- yes-- fascinating! Thank you for sharing! gabby-- of course you're right--it's never that simple! I do tend to help people out of their own delusions in a very loving way. This is super helpful news. I seem to recall his swindle being quite benign but I knew I should check again for this thread so uno momento.. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 12:58 AM
It's just semi-square his Uranus, in his 12th house in Libra... so maybe he's unaware of it but with this one I would say he's transmuting and refining the energy of it on the superconscious plane. He is quite mastwrful. And self-aware (Pluto and Saturn conjunct his Scorpio ascendant, Jupiter/Uranus conjunctio, lots of good gentle awesomeness overall).IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 01:00 AM
Whoa I forgot... But I also have Pallas on my Amor/Swindle. I definitely don't let those energies slide! In synastry his Swindle is not far off from my Venus. We share house overlays, my Venus is in my 12th and his, conjunct our composite Sun and Mercury... Also in the 12th! IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 01:03 AM
My Swindle/Amor/Pallas quincunx his Moon 0 degree orb... sextile his Uranus 2 degrees. His Swindle is 2 degrees off my Venus. I just wanna say his Pallas is conjunct my Moon cause that plays in a little here with the Moon/Pallas energy activation  IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 01:26 AM
Edit: His Swindle is one degree off our composite Mercury, and two degrees off my natal Venus. It is kinda troubling, makes a theme out of it. However he does tend to guard against swindling on a lot of levels and can probably prevent some nasty stuff from coming our way. Quite the watchdog.IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 01:28 AM
Any input most welcomeIP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 01:33 AM
He has Lie conjunct Jupiter natally! Whoa... lol... I have Lie conjunct Chiron. Always kinda wondered about that one. I'm really grateful for your insights about Amor conjunct Swindle, Gabby... got a lot of clarity there, makes perfect sense. I really don't put up with people or organizations which try to put one over on others... I expose them if I can, but in a loving conscious way which is best for all of I can help it... IP: Logged |
Gabby
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posted August 03, 2015 02:14 AM
Can you post his chart with Lie, Swindle, Amor, Valentine(447), Logos(58534), Karma(3811), Angel(11911), Wisdom(3402), Compassion(8990), Lucifer (1930)If none of those do anything, maybe look to see what asteroids from this link conjunct or make exact aspects to his Swindle/Lie and post a chart or list what you find....his Lie/Jupiter worries me. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/001744.html IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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posted August 03, 2015 09:51 AM
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yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 09:57 AM
http://www.astro.com/tmpd/c6uvfile1LARx3-u1244495423/astro_2gw_35_t_w.50032.46380.gif?49223 IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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posted August 03, 2015 09:59 AM
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yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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posted August 03, 2015 10:02 AM
The Lie/Jupiter is a bit worrisome, yes
although IQ seemed to think it wasn't problematic in conjunction with anything but luminaries and Neptune...IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
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posted August 03, 2015 10:10 AM
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Gabby
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posted August 03, 2015 10:10 AM
My general feeling off his chart is he will be one to not tell the whole truth. He won't do this out of malichiousness or meaning to hurt anyone, he does it out of fear of being hurt himself. He will say whatever he thinks will keep him from getting into trouble, truth of not...he gets scared, emotionally freaks out and says what he thinks you want to hear, which is not always the truth. This might be a bigger issue than you realize and if you don't pressure him for the truth you wouldn't know he was not telling the truth.The Chiron opposed makes this issue hard to control because he's trying to balance his expanded need to lie, with his deepest wound. The lying hurts him but it's an after thought, he can't help the impulsivity of that saggy Jupiter expanding his need to lie.
Honestly this could be lies about stupid little things like "did you take the dog for a walk like I asked?"
he forgot but fears your going to get upset so he says yes...when you get home the dog has had an accident...but he still swears up n down he took him out. Or it could be big things....depending on how hard he tries to work on and fight this.
My point is I think he has a good heart but will struggle to be completely honest and you will eventually wonder if you can really trust him. But overall I don't think he will truly hurt you intentionally but he probably frustrate you with this issue. His lies are told out of fear, so go easy on him if you catch him lying about little and reassure him that you will be more upset with him lying than with whatever action he did or didn't do that's making him feel he needs to lie. Let him know by actions that that's true, for instance when he tells you yes, there was something he forgot to do even though he was asked.....instead of getting upset tell him thank you for being honest. Teach him you'll reward him for telling the truth. This might help him see you won't hurt him for making a mistake it's the lie you don't like.
This might seem stupid or childish but he needs to know he can trust you, his Chiron is involved and that means he needs soothed and reassured in order to help him overcome this. The swindle doesn't touch anything in his chart I would worry to much about that one. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 10:15 AM
Hmm.. Yeah.. I really don't appreciate lies, I very much dislike feeling unable to trust intimate partners. My last boyfriend did that but I could have forgiven him if he hadn't been totally emotionally unavailable and unaccountable on ANY level... Not the case with this one. I posted our synastry... note my stellium on his Chiron ? IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 10:25 AM
And our Jupiters in opposition of course. I think he does keep the whole truth to himself out of hurt and I know that. It's so far to do with his past but I understand his need to keep some things to himself. I know it's not intended to hurt me. I could see how it could develop into re writing the truth of what happens between us, I think that happens already in little ways in fights and stuff.. But I'm pretty ruthless about revealing this and don't let it slide... In a loving way of course! I do have compassion for this aspect of our relationship and I think the Swindle/Amor in my natal helps with this... IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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posted August 03, 2015 10:27 AM
Thank you so much! ♡♡♡♡ So helpfulIP: Logged |
Gabby
Moderator Posts: 7020
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Registered: Sep 2012
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posted August 03, 2015 10:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Hmm.. Yeah.. I really don't appreciate lies, I very much dislike feeling unable to trust intimate partners. My last boyfriend did that but I could have forgiven him if he hadn't been totally emotionally unavailable and unaccountable on ANY level... Not the case with this one. I posted our synastry... note my stellium on his Chiron ?
I like that your stellium includes Angel, you will probably have an ability and desire to help heal his Chiron wound.
I'm very happy he's emotionally available for you, water or pisces/cancer moons are awesome like that! I don't think it's going to be a big issue, maybe a little one that is annoying but love will override it. If he's mature he is probably already working on it.
Most likely the reason you stress over lies is asteroid lie is conjunct your Chiron, one interp of that is lies can trigger your feeling wounded. It's inconjunct his jupiter/lies....this relationship will test both of you. You will need to see he's not trying to inflict pain on you and he will need to see he doesn't need to lie to protect himself.
If you both try to be loving and understanding that your fears and pain are knee jerk reactions to Chiron, not each other...it will help you understand yourself and each other better, it will be healing. IP: Logged |
Gabby
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posted August 03, 2015 10:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
And our Jupiters in opposition of course. I think he does keep the whole truth to himself out of hurt and I know that. It's so far to do with his past but I understand his need to keep some things to himself. I know it's not intended to hurt me. I could see how it could develop into re writing the truth of what happens between us, I think that happens already in little ways in fights and stuff.. But I'm pretty ruthless about revealing this and don't let it slide... In a loving way of course! I do have compassion for this aspect of our relationship and I think the Swindle/Amor in my natal helps with this...
Your Mars tightly aspects his Lie/Jupiter...so yes you will be more aggressive regarding this, even the soft aspect to Mars will make you act more aggressively as you search for the truth. Mars is Mars!
Please realize he's not trying to hurt you, at this spot in his chart he's a little boy frightening of being hurt and testing to see what reaction, a lie or truth, is the safest and ends with him hurting the very least. Teach him the truth is rewarded and he gets love and respect for telling you the whole truth. It takes time to teach that but it's important you he learns that from you.
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yungang_grotto
Knowflake Posts: 413
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Registered: Mar 2014
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posted August 03, 2015 10:40 AM
It's strange because my last boyfriend had a Cancer stellium including his Sun Moon and Mercury... And he big time failed to be there... In so many ways... I was really hard on him about it though. Lessons...Yes we are developing ever deeper and stronger understanding that we really care about one another and the pain we experience isn't because the other person doesn't care.. Thank you that is all very good advice. IP: Logged |
yungang_grotto
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posted August 03, 2015 10:43 AM
quote:
Your Mars tightly aspects his Lie/Jupiter...so yes you will be more aggressive regarding this, even the soft aspect to Mars will make you act more aggressively as you search for the truth. Mars is Mars!
Please realize he's not trying to hurt you, at this spot in his chart he's a little boy frightening of being hurt and testing to see what reaction, a lie or truth, is the safest and ends with him hurting the very least. Teach him the truth is rewarded and he gets love and respect for telling you the whole truth. It takes time to teach that but it's important you he learns that from you.
yes... I did learn in the previous relationship I keep referencing about why people lie... Or at least one reason. I knew he was scared and it was because he was physically punished as a kid... I was as gentle as I could be I guess, not gentle enough probably... he would never open up, anyhow... I think he's happy now... He really hurt me and was sooo awful... I don't feel too bad about the whole thing anymore... . I think with my present love he is willing to facethese things. .. especially as the commitment and love are really there. And because he is quite good at identifying and working on his own issues. IP: Logged |
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