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Author Topic:   Lets talk about the inescapably dangerous side of Lilith, Waldemath h58...
Gabby
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posted September 27, 2015 10:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lerena:
My Dark Moon Lilith is in 12th house Libra. I'm not quite sure what she does in my chart. She doesn't aspect anything. If we increase the orb to 3, she touches my Gemini moon. I'm not sure if that's tight enough to count though.

If she doesn't really touch anything and is in the 12th house your not going to feel her effect very much, but in the 12th she is playing around in your subconscious mind.

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florence
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posted September 27, 2015 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
I could see how you'd put everything in reverse, Pluto square Pluto does that. It's like everything we thought we valued we start re-evaluating.

Waldemath conjunction on Psyche/Vertex...maybe she's being brought to your conscious mind to deal with right now, so you can repair the issues she's created. How interesting these transits are happening at the same time as your Pluto sq. Pluto midlife transit is happening!!


I didn't realise before but it was waldermath conjuncting psyche in transit and my natal vertex so I wonder if you yourself have picked up on this conjunction in transit or whether they are often in pairs.

As to the conjunction to my vertex, what with the Hephaestus conjuncting my n.vertex in the other recent thread I think my vertex is being activated which does also figure if it is a wish fulfillment placement as, as you say, re-evaluation in my case has led to yearning for change. Vertex seems to suddenly be figuring for me

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Gabby
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posted September 27, 2015 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by florence:
I didn't realise before but it was waldermath conjuncting psyche in transit and my natal vertex so I wonder if you yourself have picked up on this conjunction in transit or whether they are often in pairs.

As to the conjunction to my vertex, what with the Hephaestus conjuncting my n.vertex in the other recent thread I think my vertex is being activated which does also figure if it is a wish fulfillment placement as, as you say, re-evaluation in my case has led to yearning for change. Vertex seems to suddenly be figuring for me


T.Waldemath gem@21
T. Psyche gem@21

Trine my Venus libra@19
Squares my 12th house Moon virgo@18
My Psyche genini@15.56

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PainInTheWorld
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posted September 27, 2015 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PainInTheWorld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is interesting, I calculated this for the first time. I have Dark Moon Lilith in Libra in my 12th house, squares my Mars, Uranus and Neptune, trine my Venus and sextile my Chiron and Mercury. Can you interpret it to me?

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yungang_grotto
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posted September 27, 2015 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whoa... The person I'm currently in the process of breaking up with has Waldemath at 0 Aries. Yeesh!

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yungang_grotto
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posted September 27, 2015 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Mars is conjunct his Waldemath. I feel like I'm really side-stepping some baaad **** by getting out of this one. Would ya'll say so?

We're still in touch and exploring things and possibilities for interaction in a mature and promising way... But I think I really sensed the destructive potential of relating with him too much. We're taking space and it is good I think. I don't want to demonize him but his chart is upwelling from the 0 Aries Waldemath point and it is really tangible at times despite his best efforts..

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Gabby
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posted September 27, 2015 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PainInTheWorld:
This is interesting, I calculated this for the first time. I have Dark Moon Lilith in Libra in my 12th house, squares my Mars, Uranus and Neptune, trine my Venus and sextile my Chiron and Mercury. Can you interpret it to me?

How tight are these squares?

quote:
Originally posted by Lerena:
My Dark Moon Lilith is in 12th house Libra. I'm not quite sure what she does in my chart. She doesn't aspect anything. If we increase the orb to 3, she touches my Gemini moon. I'm not sure if that's tight enough to count though.


The 12th house is the least intrusive place for her to be but in this house she is creating issues in the subconscious. Irrational fears but also in some way there is a malfunction in the subconscious mind.
These kinds of things include past life memories, secrets, emotional issues that create emotional stress leading to behaviors that break you down.
This could indicate depression all the way to mental disorders, personality disorders things that affect your emotions that hinder the strength of your subconscious.

You both also have her in libra so look for ways you devalue yourself or don't believe in yourself regarding love. Depression, emotional issue brought on by love or your perceived lacking ability to love of be loved.

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Gabby
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posted September 27, 2015 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
My Mars is conjunct his Waldemath. I feel like I'm really side-stepping some baaad **** by getting out of this one. Would ya'll say so?

We're still in touch and exploring things and possibilities for interaction in a mature and promising way... But I think I really sensed the destructive potential of relating with him too much. We're taking space and it is good I think. I don't want to demonize him but his chart is upwelling from the 0 Aries Waldemath point and it is really tangible at times despite his best efforts..


Yes I would say so!!
Where is his Waldemath, by house? Any aspects? The ppl with this strong in their chart they are their own worst enemy.
Honestly this is a place that is ingrained so deeply many times you can't step outsude yourself to see her influence. She can fool you into believing what she is twisting and warping in your mind, you think it's real and can't see beyond it until a huge wake up happens.

She is deeply intrenched in my chart and it took transit Pluto squaring my Pluto on AC to get me to start seeing my way around her delusions. She's exact square my Pluto and was making a t-square with transit Pluto.

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PainInTheWorld
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posted September 27, 2015 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PainInTheWorld     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:

The 12th house is the least intrusive place for her to be but in this house she is creating issues in the subconscious. Irrational fears but also in some way there is a malfunction in the subconscious mind.
These kinds of things include past life memories, secrets, emotional issues that create emotional stress leading to behaviors that break you down.
This could indicate depression all the way to mental disorders, personality disorders things that affect your emotions that hinder the strength of your subconscious.

You both also have her in libra so look for ways you devalue yourself or don't believe in yourself regarding love. Depression, emotional issue brought on by love or your perceived lacking ability to love of be loved.


Well, it sextile my Chiron and MC in Leo, which are in conjunction with each other. Then squares my Sun, Uranus and Neptune in Capricorn, also in conjuction with each other, all of three. And sextile my Mercury and NN in Sagittarius, in conjunction with each other.

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Mergoatsun
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posted September 27, 2015 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mergoatsun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's Aquarius in my 4th house and IC. It trines my chiron tightly. I've never seen anything so accurate. My home was not only unusual but abusive and my father was in and out of my life until I was 8 and he wanted a better role. My family and not having a good relationship with them is my deepest wound, ironically my chiron is in Libra.

------------------
Cap Sun
Leo Moon
Aqua Merc
Aqua Venus
Cap Mars
Libra Rising
Leo MC
~~~Blessed Be~~~~

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Gabby
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posted September 27, 2015 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
It's Aquarius in my 4th house and IC. It trines my chiron tightly. I've never seen anything so accurate. My home was not only unusual but abusive and my father was in and out of my life until I was 8 and he wanted a better role. My family and not having a good relationship with them is my deepest wound, ironically my chiron is in Libra.


You will have to accept your biological family won't ever be what you need...your second choice will have to do, a surrogate family or your friends adopted as the family that will love you.
That's what she's about she denies you your first choice you must settle for something else.

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Mergoatsun
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posted September 28, 2015 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mergoatsun     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow Gabby reading your response gave me chills. Its very hard realizing your family drags you down and I've been looking at things with rose colored glasses lately. Thank you for the reminder, I do have second chances with family and I need to stop going back to my abusive family for their comfort.

Thank you for more clairity

------------------
Cap Sun
Leo Moon
Aqua Merc
Aqua Venus
Cap Mars
Libra Rising
Leo MC
~~~Blessed Be~~~~

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hypatia238
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posted September 28, 2015 05:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Lilith at this point denies us our deepest desires, in the house she sits....you will only receive your second choice, never your first."

"Lilith at this point is always Sinister and Malevolent in her intent and ultimate effect so that matters and ppl represented by the house she resides will not be granted full measure of good that could otherwise develop in the natives life. She is denying, frustrating and catastrophic bringing chaos to that house and it's affairs."

^ That all really fits.

I have it in the 5th:

Waldemath in Taurus @21d02 in the 5th
Valentine in Leo @18d44 in the 8th
Venus in Leo @23d52 in the 8th
Karma in Leo @23d_
BML in Aqua @20D52 in the 2nd

So I have a tsquare with Waldemath at the apex. It has sucked but I accept it as my cross to carry, as everyone has their cross to carry so I don't feel sorry for myself, I have come to a point were I accept that this is how it is for me and work with what I got. I just sometimes want to know exactly what I did in a past life to create this karma but its cool I focus on the positive and am grateful for my blessings .

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Gabby
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posted September 28, 2015 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
"Lilith at this point denies us our deepest desires, in the house she sits....you will only receive your second choice, never your first."

"Lilith at this point is always Sinister and Malevolent in her intent and ultimate effect so that matters and ppl represented by the house she resides will not be granted full measure of good that could otherwise develop in the natives life. She is denying, frustrating and catastrophic bringing chaos to that house and it's affairs."

^ That all really fits.

I have it in the 5th:

Waldemath in Taurus @21d02 in the 5th
Valentine in Leo @18d44 in the 8th
Venus in Leo @23d52 in the 8th
Karma in Leo @23d_
BML in Aqua @20D52 in the 2nd

So I have a tsquare with Waldemath at the apex. It has sucked but I accept it as my cross to carry, as everyone has their cross to carry so I don't feel sorry for myself, I have come to a point were I accept that this is how it is for me and work with what I got. I just sometimes want to know exactly what I did in a past life to create this karma but its cool I focus on the positive and am grateful for my blessings .


That's a strong placement Hyp!! I wouldn't typically say she is karmic but since your asteroid karma is involved....it would be a lesson in humility.
The need to learn to be content with less than we wanted and making the best of it!

I have a strong placement to, but we work with it and learn to be happy!

My Waldemath cancer@11.03/MC cancer@7.56
Pluto libra@11.05/AC libra@7.05
Valentine cap@10.50/IC cap@7.56
Eros cap@9.00
Ugh...but it is what it is!? What can you do about it?

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Gabby
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posted September 29, 2015 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Wow Gabby reading your response gave me chills. Its very hard realizing your family drags you down and I've been looking at things with rose colored glasses lately. Thank you for the reminder, I do have second chances with family and I need to stop going back to my abusive family for their comfort.

Thank you for more clairity


Im sorry I know it's hard!
Making choices that actually have potential to make you happy instead of continuing to return to the ones that have proven to be negative and ppl who are unwilling to treat you with respect and value you, it only hurts you. They won't change unless you stop accepting their abuse and walk away, maybe even after that they won't change. But that doesn't matter...only you and your happiness matter!
You deserve better, its their loss not yours!! I'm so glad have other choices for a better family! You deserve to be loved and appreciated everyday!

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted September 29, 2015 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My h58 is in Libra, 2nd house, trine my MC exactly to the minute. Any questions?

Actually, if we count the trine to Venus which is around 1,5 deg then if forms a kite with it and the IC-MC axis...

------------------
Anomaling around since 1911.

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hypatia238
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posted September 29, 2015 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband has it in the 12th conjunct priapus.

He is denied the desire to want to merge with another and feel on a deeper level? There is an emotional depth with him that I have never reached. He feels strongly but not in the deeper level that priapus would feel.He doesn't want to surrender, that is foreign to him. He has denied himself of a spiritual life too and feels strongly about it so it could be that too..

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Gabby
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posted September 29, 2015 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hypatia238:
My husband has it in the 12th conjunct priapus.

He is denied the desire to want to merge with another and feel on a deeper level? There is an emotional depth with him that I have never reached. He feels strongly but not in the deeper level that priapus would feel.He doesn't want to surrender, that is foreign to him. He has denied himself of a spiritual life too and feels strongly about it so it could be that too..


Wow major blocks due to her being in the subconscious, and conjunct Priapus...that sounds tough!
I'm trying to think what would be his second choice in a situation like this? Any thoughts?

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hypatia238
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posted September 29, 2015 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He has chiron in the 12th too..

I wonder if ptsd can be correlated to dark moon in the 12th due to limitations in processing trauma so healing is extra difficult?

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Aubyanne
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posted September 29, 2015 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always thought the supposed 'DARK MOON', or Waldemath's, is really just the 'bogeyman' -- the disembodied rage of the real Lilith (BLACK MOON. Probably from being so demonised for so long. If BML is the shadow, then DML is the shadow's shadow. After awhile, you end up becoming so lost in 'the dark' that it hardly matters anymore.

For me, she's 0 conjunct my PREY. Heh. I laugh. She doesn't frighten me. Stalkers and psychos and serial killers? Been there, done that. Next, please. Catharsis? Madness? Sadomasochism? Check, check, and check.

Sometimes, I wonder what my 'twin' and I are. More than anything, it would seem that we're here to shed a light into the deepest darkness; to ask the questions that others don't want to, and make humanity confront its own shadow -- and make peace with it. Only way to do that is by harnessing your own. I've not been the new maiden in town, struggling to navigate the Underworld for quite some time. It seems, the closer I near my 0 conjunction of pSUN to MOON, the more I truly get this whole 'Queen of the Underworld' thing, which appears to be my birthright. Who knew?

Seems hardly coincidence I'd find this today (as I hadn't been on 'roids for the past few) after having a particular dream last night.

I came upon a desolate and snowy field. It felt almost like a '40s era soundstage. I couldn't feel the cold, and yet, I knew that it was actual snow. It was littered with what appeared to be hundreds of bodies of wolves; they were all still, seated, with their haunches lowered. But as I neared them, I noticed they were very much alive; they were merely at attention, staring straight ahead, as would a domesticated dog awaiting its master's commands.

I heard footsteps behind me, and saw that my 'twin' (for lack of better) was approaching in the near distance. He was dressed solidly in black, with the rest of him nearly vanishing against the white of the snowscape surrounding us. I didn't even have to ask, oddly, as he supplied the answer immediately upon my expression -- which hadn't even yet registered confusion.

'It takes one to know one,' he said. I turned back to them, realising they were all looking at me -- staring at me; bowed to me. Showing their utmost and ultimate respect -- to me! I was overwhelmed; I almost felt faint. There had to have been hundreds of them, for miles this way, seated, orderly and equidistant. Hundreds of respectful wolves awaiting 'orders' from me.

He then concluded his statement: 'it takes something far greater to command respect.'

I opened my eyes soon after, sore and exhausted, as if I hadn't slept at all. I awoke in a full-on fibro flare. I felt like I had been walking for miles, trudging through drift. My muscles ache, God in Heaven, do they ache!

I hadn't thought too much of it, outside of the evocative (and provocative) imagery. I had been contemplating upon what that 'far greater' to command respect might mean.

That it takes a predator to know a predator? Primality of one to identify primality in another?

Ohhh, how I laugh at Bryan Fuller's Hannibal. What that man thinks is evil. Anyone who's been in criminology -- we know true evil. And, in most cases, we work damned hard to stop it from spreading.

But what 'far greater' is taken to command respect -- of a predator? Of primality itself? Why do I have the respect of not one -- but three -- violent offenders with whom I've had the bizarre 'privilege' to become acquainted?

What truly and deeply separates my boyfriend from the men I've hunted, and by whom I admit that I have been conversely haunted? That which he was so troubled by having to delve into its roots so buried within his psychology? The total acknowledgement that ability was not the barrier, nor the hair-trigger desire to see evil destroyed -- and do so with his own two hands. No, it's restraint. Self-control. A profound level of discipline and the modified version of the principles which he thought were the only thing truly reining him in.

Until he had to break them -- well, bend them. But, for him, that made them unrecognisable. He felt adrift, and, at times deeply resentful; it'd come out in little ways. How dare he love me so much as to force himself to change something of himself so fundamental? That which, he was assured, kept his shadow at bay, and the monster within fully leashed.

I suppose it's quite logical then, that 'he'd' be the one to relay that cryptic bit of information -- at least, the astral version of him who's been haunting my headspace for about two decades now.

But had it made him a monster? Hardly. He's still the contrary, reclusive, absentminded consummate gentleman I've sworn to love completely and unconditionally, even under duress. Things which he freely admits would cause lesser women or -- at the very least -- a more 'normal' woman -- to flee in fury and tears, never to return.

'Thank you for putting up with me,' he says, almost as a mantra, at least every few months. Oh, that's nothing. When you've acquired full knowledge in not just the confirmation of, but the many ways that someone has killed you -- over and over again, like some demented Groundhog Day[/i, you become oddly forgiving when they forget to email after you've been intimate, or ask how your week is going.

It gives one a [i]helluva perspective.

And I raged against it a long, long time, too. I didn't want it to be true; first of all, it seemed insane, secondly, I didn't want it to be true! But, that's how the wave function collapses, as they say. And you can either cry about it and feel horrendously betrayed, or you can learn to forgive, accept what's past is past, and move on.

Lilith has a thousand-and-one reasons to be bitter and vindictive, to be sure. Much as I had, for being continuously victimised in circumstances outside of my control, and feeling deeply betrayed by being made the casualty of the principles of the man who, though I highly doubt I'm aware of it, fits the 'twin flame' profile perfectly. Yeah, that's a pretty deep betrayal. I began dealing with it during the tetrad last year -- the October eclipse, to be specific. Oh, the flashbacks. Man, I felt crazy. And, what was worse, is how every fibre of my being was terrified of him. He hardly deserved that of me. But, I couldn't deny what felt so palpable to me, and it took me several months of working through it. Fortunately, he was with me every step of the way.

In our way, we've learnt to embrace, rather than run from it. And enactment through creative fantasy is an excellent way to discharge all sorts of dangerous energy. In a lot of ways, our upcoming series feels like a ritual act that will seal a box of horrors once and for all. Or, more truthfully, transmute it, so that it can be restored to the greater whole, free of the corruption of before.

That's the grand objective, at least. Don't run from our shadows -- invite them to tea. Take the skeletons from the cupboards and dance, dance, dance the night away. God knows, we've made enough war together. Now we're into making love. ( ... Kind of. Mostly. Old habits die hard, so it's going to take some work and reorientation. But we're making tremendous progress.)

He has DARK MOON conjunct PSYCHE and my MADHATTER-ASC. I doubt that would surprise anyone. Of course, it's conjunct his TRUTH, my VENUS, and our HYPNOS-HYPNOS 1 conjunction -- all in my 12H. That's hardly a shock, either, considering what revelation, evolution, and healing has come from all of it.

So, perhaps channelling through art is the best means to work with such dark energies and negativity. Taking those same skeletons, dressing them up, and putting on a show.

I guess we'll see, won't we?

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Aubyanne
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posted September 29, 2015 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby:
T.Waldemath gem@21
T. Psyche gem@21

Lord, the sense that makes. Right on our PSYCHE/SELENE-MADHATTER/VALENTINE/REQUIEM conjunction. 0 square my TARDIS and his AMOR, as well.

That explains a lot about the past few days.

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ail221
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posted September 29, 2015 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ail221     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Takes away the seriousness of the thread

Dick in Taurus conjunct Dark moon within minutes lmao

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hypatia238
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posted September 29, 2015 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
Takes away the seriousness of the thread

Dick in Taurus conjunct Dark moon within minutes lmao


Lol hahaha

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Aubyanne
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posted September 29, 2015 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aubyanne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ail221:
Takes away the seriousness of the thread

Dick in Taurus conjunct Dark moon within minutes lmao


Well, you know, after she left Adam, she got with Dick.

... Oh, wait. That didn't happen at all.

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hypatia238
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posted September 30, 2015 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hypatia238     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Well, you know, after she left Adam, she got with Dick.

... Oh, wait. That didn't happen at all.


LOL or did it? I think that chapter might have been burned so we shall never know....

Maaaauaaahahaha

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