posted May 07, 2016 05:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
A huge amount of focusing on what was wrong inside me, realizing i was the reason i was drawing that kind of person to me. Coming to understand that i had that darkness in me to, i was in pain inside and very angry that "i" was ignoring myself, my pain..i was just pushing it down and pretending it wasnt there and i was ok.
The reason i pulled this negative energy to me was because this energy was reflecting back to me what needed to be seen inside me, it was a mirror showing me what i needed to see.
Somewhere inside me i wanted to face it but was terrified of what id find.
Today, i know my fear was that what i was going to see something that was this horrible, ugly person.....and find out that maybe that was the real me. Thats why I couldn't face it...i was terrified of finding out i truly was all the negative things i felt inside and about me.

But instead what i found out is, im not perfect, just like everyone else isnt! .
I found out that most ppls "bad" is just their fears acting out, if they would deal with their fears their "bad" would slowly dissipate and their self esteem would naturally go up.
I found out your darkness is not scary when you turn the lights on...all the blackness inside is just another room that needs to be cleaned out. Its only scary because we refuse to open up to it and deal with it, it seems so much bigger than it is.
I learned i had to deal with the knee jerk reactions id learned from abuse, pain n fears but as long as you love yourself and forgive yourself for not being your ideal perfect person....you can overcome anything

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I can't imagine the amount of pain and the level of acceptance it must have taken. That's some really raw, honest insight. And this is what i love about Plutonians - we can face our demons, and keep our chin up.

I am glad that you pulled yourself out of those kinds of relationships though. I hope you find the healthier expression of the intensity we need, without the scarring baggage that it usually brings.

posted May 07, 2016 05:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
One guy had his Nessus conj my Sun. I cried for an entire year on that one but I learned all I know about Nessus

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Sorry to hear that, Ami.. Sometimes we just have to go through these things, no way round it..
But yeah, the things we learn are, in the end, worth it.

I have to sometimes keep telling myself, in actual words: *abuse is not love*, *abuse is not love*. And the words just wash over me like water off a duck's back. I guess, when it's the only way of relating you've known, anything else seems like 'not love'. Plus the whole darn Pluto thing -- adding a need for disturbing levels of intensity.

To paraphrase it, mildly:
-- "Oh, he's not controlling my every move and not flying into a violent rage every time I talk to some other guy? He must not really love me." --
^ Trying to break out of that construct.

posted May 07, 2016 07:38 AM            

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posted May 07, 2016 09:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:
Yeah.. I'm not quite *there* yet, but at least one step in that direction is recognizing that this way of loving and being loved needs to change.

Btw, you have a 12H moon, right? I do too..

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posted May 07, 2016 10:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:
Hehe! Thanks.. I was presenting only a part of the picture, so in my head, I was being unfair.. But like you said.. the 'positives' are only so, if I can see them in real life. I'll just take those as they come, and try not to get carried away.

While we're at this though -- another little tidbit. His Destinn is conjunct my Deja (at 0°) and my Destinn is conjunct his Nessus-NN (a little wider, at 3°).

Okay, I'm not putting in any more asteroids now.

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These aspects genuinely make me sick to my stomach, hes destin to manipulate and hurt you, your destin to be his victim, vulnerable, manipulated and hurt by getting pulled into his traps....its part of his life path.
A huge part of me wants to tell you to get the hell away from him this very second(that's actually what i wish youd do) but i know i dont have that right. I know free will and obviously destiny holds the cards, you can change destiny though.
You dont have to allow this to happen...you for some reason are being given a warning, a vision of this path, a way to avoid this pain and suffering.....use it, please! ❤️

Sorry to get all serious, i know you don't fully understand the intensity of this Dej/Nessus pairing and pain that comes with them....i dont want you to ever fully understand it either! Its beyond words, it will rip your heart out....your plutonian so you can survive it but why have to endure it at all?
Its not the fun dark sext intensity of pluto, its a more senister energy....
If Pluto energy is like "50 Shades of Grey"
Nessus energy ends up being like "Sleeping With the Enemy"

https://youtu.be/qMWFmQTohWA

When she finally runs away and tries to hide he finds her and you should watch the movie, its very "Nessus" themed based!

posted May 07, 2016 10:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:

I have to sometimes keep telling myself, in actual words: *abuse is not love*, *abuse is not love*. And the words just wash over me like water off a duck's back. I guess, when it's the only way of relating you've known, anything else seems like 'not love'. Plus the whole darn Pluto thing -- adding a need for disturbing levels of intensity.

To paraphrase it, mildly:
-- "Oh, he's not controlling my every move and not flying into a violent rage every time I talk to some other guy? He must not really love me." --
^ Trying to break out of that construct.

Sorry for flooding my thread with posts, but it Was so nice to talk this out with you guys! I cannot discuss any of this with my friends -- a.) they don't know about him, b.) they'll think I'm crazy. So if you don't mind, I might come back to post updates every once in a while.

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I used to feel the same way, what I eventually came to realize is that i was numb inside, scared to allow myself to love myself...that made me so desperate to feel anything that i wanted and needed everything to be super intense. Normal levels of attention and love just didn't cut it...I needed more!
So this kind of "love" your describing allowed me to feel something...i always needed the drama so i felt alive, without it i felt little and ignored. This is VERY unhealthy!

What's happening inside you is your unable to feel your own hearts ability to love yourself, you ignore your heart when it tries to love you. When your brain tries to complimemt you, you shoot it down with negative thoughts. You do not allow love to come from inside you, your internal dialog is completely negative and painful towards you, you wont allow it to be any other way.
You must stop this!
When you hear negative thoughts coming from inside you, stop yourself and literally say(in your head) no....i think im smart, pretty, good, kind, lovable, sweet, ect....
Whatever youve just put yourself down about, reverse it!
Make a conscious effort to reverse all the negative thoughts in your head about yourself, its going to take time and practice.

Then.....start taking just 10 minutes a day to sit in a quiet room and ponder on the feeling in your chest, the warmth in your chest as you breath, think about your physical heart inside your chest and how it supports your life without you even thinking about it, be thankful and happy that your heart does that for you. Try to feel appreciaion and love for your heart because of that...

posted May 07, 2016 11:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
E
I have an article on the abuse is not love thing. I think I learned a lot of insights on love/abuse and Nessus. I will put it up for you xx

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posted May 07, 2016 01:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
I used to feel the same way, what I eventually came to realize is that i was numb inside, scared to allow myself to love myself...that made me so desperate to feel anything that i wanted and needed everything to be super intense. Normal levels of attention and love just didn't cut it...I needed more!
So this kind of "love" your describing allowed me to feel something...i always needed the drama so i felt alive, without it i felt little and ignored.

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Damn, have you been reading my diary??!
You really *get* it, Gabby... And I will definitely try to do what you're saying - consciously.

Thank you for being so concerned...

I feel guilty, like I'm misrepresenting him by only showing the negative aspects. I just feel obliged to point out, that we do have nice things too.. His Valentine conjuncts my NN, trines my Venus, Amor also trines NN...and a big dose of Jupiter. His Mars does conjunct my Pluto very closely - but natally, he has Mars-conj-Neptune, so I'm guessing that'll mellow it out. His Venus is 9° away from his Neptune, dunno if that counts as a conjunction in your book..just throwing that out there. He's a passionate man all the same, Venus & Mars in Scorpio. I'm a Scorpio mars myself, so..lots of that energy going around.

I dunno how all of these will play out in the final balance.. So, anyway, putting aspects aside for a minute, I wanna kind of explain why I am not running for the hills right now.. He has actually been a really good influence on me, so far. He buoys me up when I'm feeling down, and he has a lot of faith in me. In fact, it's thanks to him that one of my longest-held and fondest dreams will come true soon. *touchwood*

Also -- I wouldn't want you to worry, because of two reasons: a. I'm keeping things strictly platonic, and will try my best to continue to do so; b. Our association is a *long distance* one for the next couple of months.

posted May 07, 2016 01:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
These aspects genuinely make me sick to my stomach, hes destin to manipulate and hurt you, your destin to be his victim, vulnerable, manipulated and hurt by getting pulled into his traps....its part of his life path.
A huge part of me wants to tell you to get the hell away from him this very second(that's actually what i wish youd do) but i know i dont have that right. I know free will and obviously destiny holds the cards, you can change destiny though.
You dont have to allow this to happen...you for some reason are being given a warning, a vision of this path, a way to avoid this pain and suffering.....use it, please! ❤️

Sorry to get all serious, i know you don't fully understand the intensity of this Dej/Nessus pairing and pain that comes with them....i dont want you to ever fully understand it either! Its beyond words, it will rip your heart out....your plutonian so you can survive it but why have to endure it at all?
Its not the fun dark sext intensity of pluto, its a more senister energy....
If Pluto energy is like "50 Shades of Grey"
Nessus energy ends up being like "Sleeping With the Enemy"

https://youtu.be/qMWFmQTohWA

When she finally runs away and tries to hide he finds her and you should watch the movie, its very "Nessus" themed based!

Whole movie...
https://youtu.be/AYbdgRrbQ9Y

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I will watch that movie, now I'm really intrigued...

You're right, I do not fully comprehend what's in store for me. I feel like I'm standing at the brink of something, but I don't know what it is. He's sort of tough to figure out. I never thought of him in 'that way'. But then, one fine day, I woke up with a full-blown infatuation. I dunno, it's probably just that he's literally the only one who's been good to me, or even concerned about me - in a long long time. The way we were brought together also seemed 'fated'. Or random coincidence, depending on which way you see it. The point being, it could just as easily not have happened - which made me think it must be for a reason.
He is sort of filling the big, gaping hole left by my so-called friends-and-family.

posted May 07, 2016 02:47 PM            

Whos the monster from your childhood your still trying to win their love so they will stop hurting you, is there someone? Who is it that you believed if you loved them enough, eventually they would stop hurting you? Was there someone like that in your life?

This is what i say to you.... While you are not together, work with all your might on yourself. When you are actually together share this post with him, let him know about these aspects, see his reaction.
Test him, try to anger him, be clumsy, spill water/spaghetti sauce on him, accidentally break his stuff, act srlfish....be ditzy all the things that annoy guys and see how he reacts. Do your best to frustrate him and make him angry at you....dont just do it a litle do it A LOT! Then youll know what kind of guy your dealing with. But never, ever stop paying attention and looking out for you, you already know you tend need the extremes, so your numb. Your blocking out something, suppressing emotions, why? Whats inside that your afraid of? Thats what needs to be answered and then dealt with.

posted May 08, 2016 02:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
I hear you....
My Nessus relationship started after i left my husband and the cult religion i was raised in, see i was already programmed to be a victim. But i was getting stronger, i ran!
I had ran across country with very little money. I had nobody, i found work but staying in a shelter...it was me and my 2 little children. He found me, he was willing to help, he helped get us into a little apartment and setup utilities for us. He was like a savior to us. Everything with him seemed pretty normal at first, i did notice he seemed intense as a person in general, but who was i to judge?
He would come over n visit and he seemed really ok except he had a temper when driving, but he was never mad at or the kids. As time went on he moved in with us, things got worse, n worse....i wish i would have not ignored those little things, their were more and they were my signs to run, but i didnt. Actually at the time i kind of liked them...like he hated everyone but me, i was the one he wouldn't treat like that.
Oh, i was so wrong! Sometimes we like dancing with that devil, playing with danger because we feel like we can control it...we have something special that will tame that monster where he wont hurt us, but listen closely....WE DONT!! Its just a matter of time before they turn on us, they are romanticizing us...pulling us in to be their next victim.

Whos the monster from your childhood your still trying to win their love so they will stop hurting you, is there someone? Who is it that you believed if you loved them enough, eventually they would stop hurting you? Was there someone like that in your life?

This is what i say to you.... While you are not together, work with all your might on yourself. When you are actually together share this post with him, let him know about these aspects, see his reaction.
Test him, try to anger him, be clumsy, spill water/spaghetti sauce on him, accidentally break his stuff, act srlfish....be ditzy all the things that annoy guys and see how he reacts. Do your best to frustrate him and make him angry at you....dont just do it a litle do it A LOT! Then youll know what kind of guy your dealing with. But never, ever stop paying attention and looking out for you, you already know you tend need the extremes, so your numb. Your blocking out something, suppressing emotions, why? Whats inside that your afraid of? Thats what needs to be answered and then dealt with.

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Sorry, I couldn't resist quoting. It all just resonates so much. I read your experience, and I was like, my first thought was that he is my *saviour*. It's soo soo true, what you said, about thinking we are immune to the 'monster' that we see, because they'd never be that way with someone they love, right? My last relationship was kinda like that.

But especially this, "Whos the monster from your childhood your still trying to win their love so they will stop hurting you, is there someone?"
I can't even.. Gosh.
The answer to that is - both my mum & dad, in different ways. That's all I can bring myself to say right now. Not just them though.. Even my 'friends'..ever since I was like 6 or 7 years old. And they weren't much older. It took me years to realize that 'friends' don't do that to you.

But all my life, this pattern repeats. I feel like if I love them *enough*, a little more and some more..they'll see that I'm on their side, that I'm theirs.

Your advice about getting to see what he's really like is good.

posted May 08, 2016 01:17 PM            

Im ok with discussing the cult...ill have to come back to that one though. Its Mother's Day and i dont want to think about that cult today, lol! 😊 They thought all holidays were satanic😈! Lol, so glad i broke free of that insanity. Anything specific you want to know?

posted May 12, 2016 02:42 PM            

Wow, those words. I read your answer three times. You have your finger on the pulse, of a lot of things. Learning that I don't have to prove my love, or anything is the toughest. But I guess I have to grow into that, eventually.

What do I want to know? Oh boy. I feel like I'm throwing a Frisbee into the ocean. 'Coz I have no definite question in mind, I just want the whole story. (That's me, unfortunately).

--But say, to begin with... Were your parents and your whole community part of that cult? Were you born into it or did they adopt it somewhere along the road..?

For that matter, were your parents around while you were growing up..?

posted May 12, 2016 05:31 PM            

A cult trains ppl to be victims and to try very very hard to gain approval/love from an impossible source....its a great place for abusers and victims to congregate because the "roles" are already in place. The true victims are the ones born into who never had a chance to learn anything else.

After you learn to play out this role as a child, you learned this also through your family and friends, you seek it out in relationships. The reason you look for it is because its what you know, your comfortable with this role, the role of being hurt by ppl who refuse to love you so you must constantly work for their love like you are below them.
Our subconscious mind controls over 85% of our actions...our conscious mind doesn't stand a chance to stop how we react due to what the subconscious believes. Those reactions are blind reactions, knee jerk based on the beliefs taught to us and built into our subconscious foundation. Trying to consciously stop these actions would be like standing in front of a tidal wave with your hand up and expecting it to stop the water. But, if your watching the water and looking for currents patterns you can come to understand the water and change how it affects you.
Our subconscious protects what it knows is our "role" in life, the part we have learned that identifies who we are, as a child did we learn we were the golden child, the smart one, rational one, the protector or a victim? This identity stays with us unconsciously unless we can make ourself CONSCIOUSly see what the subconscious believes and see why how its affecting us..ponder on this, let it absord into the subconscious through sleep and continue thinking about how its not the truth about you or who you are. Pretty much you have to intentionally reprogram your subconscious mind. It takes time, and doing the exercises that I mentioned before is just the start.
You have to give your subconscious new positive roles that it identies with you...but first you have to believe you deserve that. Most ppl cant do this because as soon as they try to say to themselves, "you deserve to be loved"
A little voice in there head says, "nobody loves you" and they get depressed and stop.
Thats why you have to start out by fighting off all the ugly voices in your head.
You can't start out being positive...it wont work, youll get even more depressed and tell me you cant do it because what i asked you to do made you feel worse instead of better.
You have to do things in a certain order or youll set off your natural defenses inside you, and you will end up more depressed.
The reason you will get more depressed doing it one way over the other is because all your defensive walls are strong, those walls keep your identity safe...your identity or your "role" or who your subconscious identifies you as...it keeps that identy safe for you, unfortunately it's keeping you identifying yourself as a victim, thats the identity its helping you keep safe.
So you know who you are...your subconscious believes this is you, it wants to protect you! It has no idea what youve been taught that you are is harmful...all it knows is what it was taught and thats the foundation for who you are and its protecting that foundation. If i start saying a bunch of positive things out of the blue, it will fire back a bunch of negative things...so you must be prepared for this or yes you will get very depressed.

So...you have to breakdown the defensive walls, how do you do that? The same way they broke you down initially....they slowly told you something different than what you believed about yourself until finally you believed them instead of yourself.
But this time...you will be feeding yourself the positive words and telling yourself good things everytime you hear your inner thoughts say negative or ugly things about you.

Does that make sense?

posted May 12, 2016 07:53 PM            

maybe these are just lessons for each or both of you.
The main thing is to BE REALLY HONEST with each other and yourself ABOUT WHAT it is and WHAT IT IS NOT.
IT IS possible to explore a rabbit hole without falling all the way in

posted May 13, 2016 08:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
A huge amount of focusing on what was wrong inside me, ...

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posted May 13, 2016 10:54 AM            

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uelHwf8o7_U

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posted May 13, 2016 01:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by VirgoPILL:
I agree with you Gabby! thank you for phrasing it clearly.

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posted May 13, 2016 02:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:

Most ppl cant do this because as soon as they try to say to themselves, "you deserve to be loved"
A little voice in there head says, "nobody loves you" and they get depressed and stop.
Thats why you have to start out by fighting off all the ugly voices in your head.

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....they slowly told you something different than what you believed about yourself until finally you believed them instead of yourself.
But this time...you will be feeding yourself the positive words and telling yourself good things everytime you hear your inner thoughts say negative or ugly things about you.

Does that make sense?

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