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Author Topic:   White Moon/Black Moon - Re-Visiting Lilith and Selene
yungang_grotto
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Posts: 4082
From: love lives forever
Registered: Mar 2014

posted January 05, 2017 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:
Sure wishin' I had some of y'all's ~software???

I can read your stuff... and only marvel right now. Your astro skills are much more advanced than mine. Kudos!

I'll contribute my asteroid placements here later...


Oh no... I must humbly submit that I don't think we're more advanced... not I anyway. .

I mean advanced implies there's some kind of linear marker or measuring stick for astrological understanding and I just see it as more individual... practically everybody I meet who is interested in astrology teaches me something new about it.. I feel like everybody's development and understanding is so unique unto them that it's very difficult to compare.. although I guess I know what you mean in terms of having studied certain areas of astrology and it's so kind of you to honour us in saying so.

I think the special nature of your understanding and involvement with Asteroid astrology especially (but your candid, open minded, attentive and deeply feeling/light hearted (all at once!) approach to astrology and life in general) could/can/DOES teach me a lot!

I'm fresh off the other thread and totally inspired by the way you seem to have your asteroids mapped out (not the first time I've been inspired and awed by your handle of asteroids... I picture a large colourful diagram/careful notes? I'm inspired to start taking notes personally or make a huge chart and start noting patterns and seeing it all in one place... found some gargantuan paper at the thrift store!)--and how you're able to synthesize asteroid groupings and understand how they weave together... it's very impressive also, you know... deep and clear and lovely and altogether wonderful to read your posts every single time. Not surprised about your Nemesis/Liebe etc stelliums!

So basically maybe you're more advanced! Just in different areas??

Thank you for all you contribute here... and for thinking we have useful insights/skills etc

The skills... if they can help folks they're so good to have and I'm grateful... I owe sooo much of what I know to this place, and in part, to you! So...

💖💖💖👂👐💓💞

------------------
___
http://www.intimatesky.net
offering consultations (via Skype) and current articles

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mirage29
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From: us
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posted January 06, 2017 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yungang.... Thank you sooo much for your time and detailed Kind feedback.

Thank you!
<cropped>

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Ceridwen
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posted January 06, 2017 05:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mirage,

I absolutely love your unique style.

And I agree with Yun, it`s remarkable how you have your asteroids lined up.

Well I know some clusters in my chart as well, and actually when I started, I was also keeping notes.

PUtting the degrees on a left column (and the signs - though mostly ordering them according to modality, that is probably where my midpoint-schooling came into play and influenced my choice. ) and then lining up some asteroids and planets according to the degrees.


I also think it is a worthwile, while time consuming exercise, as you get more of an ENERGETIC FEEL for what all of it means.

That is why I too sometimes work with my paintprogramm to single out certain aspect-patterns and draw them by hand (or computer), it`s sort of already part of the understanding process.


But well lately I don´t really have the time for this and welcome astro.coms options.

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mirage29
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From: us
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posted January 06, 2017 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you, Ceri! ...

My asteroid notebook and being able to pull strangely accurate stories from 'clusters' (as you say Ceri) IS one of the most surreal freaky experiences of my life.

I could almost throw away all my personal journals... because it's all in one little dollar-store composition book.

<edit> (humor *badmirage*)

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yungang_grotto
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From: love lives forever
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posted January 06, 2017 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heehee...

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KoreAbyss
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posted January 06, 2017 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KoreAbyss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What a great article! Very well done.

And a great suggestion on the midpoint of them, Ceri!

Lol both true Lilith and Selene are parallel my ascendant. And they sit conjunct at 5 degrees in Virgo. LOL what!?

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yungang_grotto
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Posts: 4082
From: love lives forever
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posted January 07, 2017 02:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yungang_grotto     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mmmmmm so good

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Ceridwen
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posted January 07, 2017 05:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But yeah, actually, I never know what LIlith to take, I settled for mean Lilith actually. Cause true Lilith is not even true, if I understood it right. Or maybe it is. who knows?
Seems natural Lilith is truer than true Lilith, but mean Lilith seems to have had infallible timing for the last years.

So I am back to square one with that one. lol

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Ceridwen
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posted January 07, 2017 05:50 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://expreso.co.cr/centaurs/blackmoon/barycentric.html

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Violets
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posted January 07, 2017 10:27 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hm. My Midpoint for "true" BML and Selene is at 11 Aries, while my midpoint for "mean" BML and Selene is at 9 Aries.

My natal Pluto is at 8 Libra (and Eris at 12 Aries, lol).

I wonder if my Pluto is where I would find a balance between the two? Or Eris?

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mirage29
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posted January 07, 2017 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Enjoy! ....

(topic) What is Diamond Astrology? An introduction (Monique Leurink) [5:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4tkWYyn3yQ

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Ceridwen
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posted January 07, 2017 01:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mirage29:

The TRUE Lilith is the more-accurate Lilith. They say that because we have computers that can very accurately pinpoint that calculation now.

The MEAN Lilith is the 'average' calculation.


I always thought that as well!

But seems the calculation is a bit more complicated than that.

Actually I think we possibly could get closer to accuracy if we checked BML in relation to fullmoons at the perigee or apogee.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 07, 2017 01:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

Many of us are quite familiar with Black Moon Lilith as archetype, and energetically, if not astrologically. Some folks might not admit it, but everybody has a Lilith nature. She represents the unapologetic night-time prowler, sexually appetitive and deeply engaged with her passions. Lilith refuses to be dominated. In Christian mythology, she was Adam’s first wife, who was exiled and made, in their stories, into a demon who devoured her own babies after she refused to only have sex with Adam in the missionary position. Shocking,  i know. At the time, it was tantamount to sacrilege for a woman to seek out sexual pleasure for herself. It’s becoming more widely accepted but despite our culture’s increasingly “liberal” attitudes there is still much that is taboo in this, for people across the gender spectrum. Adam wasn’t exactly free in his conditioning either, was he? But we are animals; we seek what are essentially innocent animal pleasures… but shame twists them, and the simple yearning for engagement  and freedom of expression on this deepest physical level meets with stern disapproval from “correct, civilized” society.. and he yearning goes underground… manifests in darker and darker realms, because of its very banishment, it  must seek the shadows… And pretty soon you have the archetypal demon lady devouring her own babies daily and cavorting with demon King, Asmodeus, in the pits of hell.

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just let Lilith be on top for a change? Probably would have been more fun for everyone.

Lilith is sometimes said to gave returned to the Garden to visit once more; in the form of the Snake who delivered knowledge to Eve. Sound familiar? Lilith sometimes manifests as the Other Woman, coming to destroy the illusion of perfection and bliss which has been carefully constructed post-banishment. She is the part of our relating sexual selves which we attempt to banish… but she comes to deliver needful knowledge. If this knowledge can be integrated in a healthy way we might become wiser and stronger.

 

Lilith represents our attitudes towards infidelity; she represents the bucking of taboos, the reclamation of the inner Dark Goddess, our raw passion and embodied sexuality. She is a crucial aspect of a healthy and whole person, and when she is demonized she can wreak havoc on our lives and our relationships. When integrated in a healthy way, she is a powerful ally indeed.

Less of us (in astrological circles) are familiar with Lilith’s counterpart, White Moon Selene. Selene is another calculated point/an ethereal ghost whose position is mathematically derived from the position of the Moon.

She is the dream maiden, benevolent bringer of soft light and eternal enjoyment, dwelling in a mystical realm relatively free of trouble and strife. She is the light-bright, decidedly child-friendly and mythically palatable aspect of the Moon. In myth, Selene, Moon Goddess, fell in love with the sleeping youth/King/shepherd (variously): Endymion. The Gods smiled on their love and granted him eternal life, though the catch is that he must remain asleep. Their tryst goes on even now in the land of dreams; it is a story of enduring love which grants immortality. There is a great deal of beauty and benevolence, wonderful energy in this story. I explore the wonderful aspects of Selene in a previous article (“She Who Giv’st to Nature’s Works Their Destin’d End”).

 

However, there is a catch, for Selene is not all lovely, just as Lilith is not all bad; the love Selene bestows must have an element of unconsciousness about it. One of the parties, though eternally alive and remaining youthful, must be asleep to the realities of the world around him. We must be willing to lose an aspect of embodied reality for the bliss and eternity Selene would bestow.

 

If our love is true, and really smiled on by the Gods, this can work out… I guess. If our purity of motive is thorough, Selene’s dream may endure…

Therein lies the potential problem when we’re working with the White Moon. Just as we can not demonize Lilith without encountering serious problems, we can not beatify Selene without encountering equally dire issues. If we are not willing to go whole hog with the work and experience demanded by these deities, they do have sharp edges. I asuppose these edges are part of their wisdom and teachings though, mythologically, astrologically.

When I first started exploring the White Moon, the fact that she is so clearly a juxtaposition of the Black Moon was quite clear to me. We have the ***** (Lilith) and the saint (Selena). Both Moon Goddesses. We have the guttural, sensual ***** , smiling and licking (is that blood??) from her lips, and the incorporeal dream-lady, soft and white, floating in on a cloud over the billowing window-curtains to kiss a kiss so gentle and eternal and feathery… Interestingly, it is the latter image which makes me feel a little like barfing right now…. For it is too-good.

How could either exist without the other? Of course we must blend them; of course they must co-exist.


Small wonder, though, that most astrology these days features so much more Lilith than Selena. Selena is barely a blip. Kali Yugaand all that. We are in the age of Lilith, full tilt. The Dark Goddess holds sway, more and more, for she was repressed and buried far too long. She must reclaim her power; she must prowl the night, she must tear apart the taboos, she must stand resplendent in her pleasure and her majesty, and her work is just beginning… the D

Small wonder, too, that I would become all glossy and dreamy-eyed over White Moon Selena, even though I know Lilith is in fashion. I’m a bit of an iconoclast after all, backwards as they come. And Selene is conjunct my descendant. Maybe I have Venus in the 12th house and Moon conjunct Neptune… And hey, can’t I love her? Of course, it’s allowed. Part of the beauty of Selena is that she teaches us how to embrace the good, how to revel in the beauty of the just-becoming (see flowery article for more on this) and dwell in a realm which is free from the ramifications of the heavy corporeal world with all it’s real-life problems. A sensuality which occurs in the dream realm, one which is ostensibly free from ramifications is, in some ways, just as radical as the enjoyment of a Lilithian sensuality which is rife with taboo and saddled with the condemnation of upright goody-two-shoes society.

How to weave Selena in with our real lives? How to embody and express healthy manifestations of Lilith energy? Excellent questions, and worthy of much in depth exploration for each of us.

I became severed from the essential truth in the course of my exploration of Selena as I wrote that last article, for I became enamored of her without seeing her pitfalls. Many of us will, as we explore the White and Black Moons as archetypes in our lives, fall into similar traps.

We become enamored of the qualities of holy goodness/holy badness and go so deeply into them that we fail to see the importance of balance when we are incorporating their energies. Maybe that’s okay; so much of life is a dance between extremes. These ways of being, these astrological points, can be interpreted as stand-alone entities, but as with anything, if we try too hard and too long to carve out their separateness and define their boundaries so strictly, we actually cut off their oxygen and lose sight of the vitality of their life-force, which comes when we see them as part of an integral whole. White Moon Selena loses her meaning when we don’t have the rest of the chart to tie her into. It is part of her charm, and also part of her ‘shadow’, her downfall, that she wants to be aloof from everything, in a dream world of her own making. So with Lilith, who in exile from Christiandom becomes a monster in their eyes: she isn’t all bad, and can not be exiled and severed from the rest of creation! We must bring these two deeply into the fold in order for them to operate in a healthy way in our charts and in our lives.

(Continued on my website here
[URL=http://intimatesky.net/2016/12/30/white-moonblack-moon-re-visiting-lilith-and-selena/)]http://intimatesky.net/2016/12/30/white-moonblack-moon-re-visiting-lilith-and-selena/)[/ URL]


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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

LeeLoo's Esotericorner

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mirage29
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posted January 07, 2017 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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