posted January 02, 2017 07:43 PM            

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just let Lilith be on top for a change? Probably would have been more fun for everyone.

Lilith is sometimes said to gave returned to the Garden to visit once more; in the form of the Snake who delivered knowledge to Eve. Sound familiar? Lilith sometimes manifests as the Other Woman, coming to destroy the illusion of perfection and bliss which has been carefully constructed post-banishment. She is the part of our relating sexual selves which we attempt to banish… but she comes to deliver needful knowledge. If this knowledge can be integrated in a healthy way we might become wiser and stronger.

Lilith represents our attitudes towards infidelity; she represents the bucking of taboos, the reclamation of the inner Dark Goddess, our raw passion and embodied sexuality. She is a crucial aspect of a healthy and whole person, and when she is demonized she can wreak havoc on our lives and our relationships. When integrated in a healthy way, she is a powerful ally indeed.

Less of us (in astrological circles) are familiar with Lilith’s counterpart, White Moon Selene. Selene is another calculated point/an ethereal ghost whose position is mathematically derived from the position of the Moon.

She is the dream maiden, benevolent bringer of soft light and eternal enjoyment, dwelling in a mystical realm relatively free of trouble and strife. She is the light-bright, decidedly child-friendly and mythically palatable aspect of the Moon. In myth, Selene, Moon Goddess, fell in love with the sleeping youth/King/shepherd (variously): Endymion. The Gods smiled on their love and granted him eternal life, though the catch is that he must remain asleep. Their tryst goes on even now in the land of dreams; it is a story of enduring love which grants immortality. There is a great deal of beauty and benevolence, wonderful energy in this story. I explore the wonderful aspects of Selene in a previous article (“She Who Giv’st to Nature’s Works Their Destin’d End”).

However, there is a catch, for Selene is not all lovely, just as Lilith is not all bad; the love Selene bestows must have an element of unconsciousness about it. One of the parties, though eternally alive and remaining youthful, must be asleep to the realities of the world around him. We must be willing to lose an aspect of embodied reality for the bliss and eternity Selene would bestow.

If our love is true, and really smiled on by the Gods, this can work out… I guess. If our purity of motive is thorough, Selene’s dream may endure…

Therein lies the potential problem when we’re working with the White Moon. Just as we can not demonize Lilith without encountering serious problems, we can not beatify Selene without encountering equally dire issues. If we are not willing to go whole hog with the work and experience demanded by these deities, they do have sharp edges. I asuppose these edges are part of their wisdom and teachings though, mythologically, astrologically.

When I first started exploring the White Moon, the fact that she is so clearly a juxtaposition of the Black Moon was quite clear to me. We have the ***** (Lilith) and the saint (Selena). Both Moon Goddesses. We have the guttural, sensual ***** , smiling and licking (is that blood??) from her lips, and the incorporeal dream-lady, soft and white, floating in on a cloud over the billowing window-curtains to kiss a kiss so gentle and eternal and feathery… Interestingly, it is the latter image which makes me feel a little like barfing right now…. For it is too-good.

How could either exist without the other? Of course we must blend them; of course they must co-exist.

Small wonder, though, that most astrology these days features so much more Lilith than Selena. Selena is barely a blip. Kali Yugaand all that. We are in the age of Lilith, full tilt. The Dark Goddess holds sway, more and more, for she was repressed and buried far too long. She must reclaim her power; she must prowl the night, she must tear apart the taboos, she must stand resplendent in her pleasure and her majesty, and her work is just beginning… the D

Small wonder, too, that I would become all glossy and dreamy-eyed over White Moon Selena, even though I know Lilith is in fashion. I’m a bit of an iconoclast after all, backwards as they come. And Selene is conjunct my descendant. Maybe I have Venus in the 12th house and Moon conjunct Neptune… And hey, can’t I love her? Of course, it’s allowed. Part of the beauty of Selena is that she teaches us how to embrace the good, how to revel in the beauty of the just-becoming (see flowery article for more on this) and dwell in a realm which is free from the ramifications of the heavy corporeal world with all it’s real-life problems. A sensuality which occurs in the dream realm, one which is ostensibly free from ramifications is, in some ways, just as radical as the enjoyment of a Lilithian sensuality which is rife with taboo and saddled with the condemnation of upright goody-two-shoes society.

How to weave Selena in with our real lives? How to embody and express healthy manifestations of Lilith energy? Excellent questions, and worthy of much in depth exploration for each of us.

I became severed from the essential truth in the course of my exploration of Selena as I wrote that last article, for I became enamored of her without seeing her pitfalls. Many of us will, as we explore the White and Black Moons as archetypes in our lives, fall into similar traps.

We become enamored of the qualities of holy goodness/holy badness and go so deeply into them that we fail to see the importance of balance when we are incorporating their energies. Maybe that’s okay; so much of life is a dance between extremes. These ways of being, these astrological points, can be interpreted as stand-alone entities, but as with anything, if we try too hard and too long to carve out their separateness and define their boundaries so strictly, we actually cut off their oxygen and lose sight of the vitality of their life-force, which comes when we see them as part of an integral whole. White Moon Selena loses her meaning when we don’t have the rest of the chart to tie her into. It is part of her charm, and also part of her ‘shadow’, her downfall, that she wants to be aloof from everything, in a dream world of her own making. So with Lilith, who in exile from Christiandom becomes a monster in their eyes: she isn’t all bad, and can not be exiled and severed from the rest of creation! We must bring these two deeply into the fold in order for them to operate in a healthy way in our charts and in our lives.

posted January 02, 2017 08:26 PM              

Edit....
Selene is square my Asc/Dsc.

posted January 03, 2017 06:21 AM              

What do you think, would there midpoint be a good point where we could merge both ends of the scale?

Though which Black Moon would we use for that, mean, true (which seems to not even be true. lol) or mean?

Which personally for me is not that different, mean one is on 24 Aqua the other two on 28 Aqua, but I know that there can be much more distance between them for other people.

Well for me

mean Lilith/Selene 29°26 Pisces
natural Lilith/Selene 1°10 aries
osc. Lilith/SElene 1°30 Aries

posted January 03, 2017 11:45 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

Definitely interesting that yours are around the AP!

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additionally my solar arc Moon is at 29°55 Pisces.
It will enter 00 Aries on 30th january.

posted January 03, 2017 01:37 PM            

I wonder how the Solar Arc degrees are relevant. I imagine they must be. I am really excited by the AP in general, partly because I know that everybody resonates with it and it speaks deeply to all of us, by virtue partly of the significance of the draconic charts. But really even these are significant because of the AP itself, of course.. It's like a fulcrum of the whole tropical zodiac; well, all the Cardinal 00's are..

Do you 'feel' the SA Moon at 29 Pisces? Can you resonate with the Sabian symbol--is there a sense of profound completion/teetering on the edge of newness? I've not read much about SA planets changing signs, but if it's anything like progressions it will totally be significant.

posted January 04, 2017 07:22 AM            

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I have:

h56 White Moon Selena
@ 28 Gemini
- Does not aspect anything in my chart

Black Moon Lilith
@ 7 Aries
- Trine 6 Sag Venus, 7 Leo rectified ASC

Selena/Lilith midpoint @ 18.02 Taurus, conjunct my south node. Thanks for suggesting that midpoint, Ceri.

posted January 04, 2017 03:45 PM            

Mine is at 9 Cancer, opposite my Moon/Neptune conjunction... conjunct my daughter's WM Selene...

At least my Mean Lilith/Selene midpoint. My other one is at 21 Cancer...

D and I have something interesting going on there... For him it's flipped, with those midpoints at 22 Aries and 11 Aries, conjunct his Sun and Sun/Moon midpoint respectively (I think I'm remembering this right). We also have double whammy aspects between True and Mean Lilith between our charts. It's weird.

Anyway

Faith,

I sense this in you, this South Node-Lilith^Selene thing. Very interesting. I feel like I can also sense the trine to Lilith and the relatively unaspected Selene. But i obviously don't know you in reeeaal life.

posted January 05, 2017 05:10 AM              

However, those who apply solar arc (and midpoints) as prediction method like the Hamburg school, Ebertin or even Noel Tyl seem to place some importance on exact aspects to the AP, like something that connects us personally with the collective, things we become known for or seem to exhibit publicly but personally at the same time, if I understood it right.

BTW just stumbled across this article http://www.roseastrology.com/articles/Aries%20Point%20Bloom.pdf

So my solar Arc Moon hitting that spot is certainly interesting. Natally I do not have any planet configured with the AP, though Moon is almost semisquare it (but off by 2 degrees to the semisquare).

I do have however some midpoints that sit at the AP in Capricorn.

Mercury/Venus 0°35 Cap
Sun/Venus 1°01 Cap

So eventually my sa Moon will activate those natal midpoints, though I think Tyl uses a very close orb with midpoints, just tuning the actual activation down to about 2 months, which would be an orb of 5 minutes applying and separating; possibly it would make itself felt before that at least subtly too.

But the month the activation happens for me are:

sa Moon = AP = Mercury/Venus in august - september 2017

and

sa Moon = AP = Sun/Venus in january - february 2018

This is of course only the 5 minute orb, might be foreshadowed before or after.

those sound like pretty nice things though.

interestingly when the first activation happens (july - august) my pMoon will be on 11 Virgo opposing my n Jupiter; the second aspect happens with pMoon on 19-20 Virgo opposing pJupiter. lol

Maybe a little pause from Tr Pluto opposing my Saturn breathing down my neck?

Wll the last exact opposition will happen on 19th october this year.

I`ve had the pleasure of having 5 exact hits of T Pluto opposing my Saturn

3rd march 16
5th june 16
1st january 17
8th september 17
19th october 17

"Do you 'feel' the SA Moon at 29 Pisces? Can you resonate with the Sabian symbol--is there a sense of profound completion/teetering on the edge of newness?"
Yes, absolutely!
Not that this is always an easy feeling. Sometimes it is exhilerating though and sometimes it feels exhausting. It`s a bit extreme.
Interestingly it entered the last degree of Pisces last february and that was indeed a month that a lot of changes or realizations started to form.

I`ve also had my pMoon enter Virgo in november (almost literally to the day I took a break from LL and reevaluated a lot of things).

I have some other progressed planets on the verge of changing, too.

pVenus and pLilith are at the moment on 29 Aquarius, well pVenus is still on 28 Aqua but they will have their exact conjunction on 29 Aqua. (in may)

pVenus will enter Pisces on 17th december, my next birthday

pLilith will remain on 29 Aqua for some more years though.

Well I certainly always feel the shift of pMoon, so I guess I would feel the shift of pVenus, too (I did so with pASC as well).

posted January 05, 2017 06:12 AM              

sa Lilith/Selene is at 12°15 Taurus

I also checked our Davison

Interestingly sa SELENE is on 20°45 Libra conjunct our NN on 21°56 Libra, or well not currently but is heading there.

composite Selene/Lilith is on about 24 Cap, conjunct Moon (and his natal Venus, which is kinda fitting as natally Selene conjuncts his Venus).

pr composite Selene/Lilith is on 2 Aqua, just having pased our composite ASC on 1 Aqua. LOL

I also just noticed something curious.

his pMoon is just 11 minutes applying to conjunct my name in my chart

my pMoon will be conjunct his name in his chart a bit later this year

oh and on 8th march I just noticed this curious thing

my pname 18°24 Taurus
my p IC 18°38 Taurus
his pMoon 19°06 Taurus (right on my asteroid Child btw. lol)

so it seems like mid-end february his pMoon will actually be conjunct my pIC.

which has nothing to do with Selene or Lilith. sorry, just noticed that.

well apart from the fact of course that my name in his pr chart is opposing his pLilith with 5 minutes of orb. lol

I am always Lilith, I can`t help it.

posted January 05, 2017 11:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Is there anything on astro. com that helps figure out midpoints for stuff like this, or do we have to do it by hand? I've figured out mine before from scratch (literally with a pencil and paper), but I don't like it. :[

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Aw... might be worth investing in SolarFire; it will figure them out for you.

Oh wait! Yes I think you can get astro.com to do it; uncheck all the asteroids like Vesta etc and only put in the ones you want the midpoint for.

Then select that Pullen/Midpoints option. It should turn up the midpoint of Selene and Lilith for you...

posted January 05, 2017 11:26 AM            

Calculating midpoints is kinda fun and easy once you get practice at it... anybody want to share their tips for this?

I have a weird roundabout method which involves err I can't describe it... haha umm

Like, I count the 30 degrees of signs in between... then I find the midpoint of those signs and then I count the difference on either end...

posted January 05, 2017 11:29 AM            

no worries re non Lilith/Selene related. You ARE Lilith/Selene right now as far as I'm concerned with that SA placement

But yes you are always Lilith for him eh?

posted January 05, 2017 11:29 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Is there anything on astro. com that helps figure out midpoints for stuff like this, or do we have to do it by hand? I've figured out mine before from scratch (literally with a pencil and paper), but I don't like it. :[

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pick Ebertin-style with midpoints under chart drawing style, and then if you go to the pdf files you can see the midpoints (you will ahve to click on aspects to all objects though for the Lilith-SElene midpoint to come up I think)

posted January 05, 2017 11:32 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Violets:
Is there anything on astro. com that helps figure out midpoints for stuff like this, or do we have to do it by hand? I've figured out mine before from scratch (literally with a pencil and paper), but I don't like it. :[

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pick Ebertin-style with midpoints under chart drawing style, and then if you go to the pdf files you can see the midpoints (you will ahve to click on aspects to all objects though for the Lilith-SElene midpoint to come up I think)

posted January 05, 2017 11:35 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
"Yes, absolutely!
Not that this is always an easy feeling. Sometimes it is exhilerating though and sometimes it feels exhausting. It`s a bit extreme. 
Interestingly it entered the last degree of Pisces last february and that was indeed a month that a lot of changes or realizations started to form"

Right, that makes sense! Will be very interesting to see what the moment/year of seal-embracing looks like for you!

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posted January 05, 2017 11:50 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

But yes you are always Lilith for him eh?

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I don`t know. But I am coming up pretty often as LIlith it seems, I mean in the composite Lilith is even conjunct my natal ASC.

his Priapus is even conjunct my Lilith (natural and osc. at least).

On the other hand I seem to also be Psyche. lol

I am in a Lilithian phase anyway myself. with the pVenus-Lilith-conjunction and sa Lilith has just left the square to my n Venus.

Interestingly currently his sa LIlith is square his own Venus as well. plus applying to the midpoint of his natal Venus/Juno-opposition - I guess he is having some dilemma when it comes to the lover/wife complex. lol

Oh I had not quite realized that but in terms of the composite:

sa Lilith 16°32 Cap
n Venus 16°01 Cap

posted January 05, 2017 11:55 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

Interesting stuff all around, what you are making note of here. The name asteroid double whammy is pretty peculiar! You two continue to be 'in step.'

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yeah, in step.

Curiously THIS occurs in his Solar Return for 2017

SR ASC 9°28 Pisces
SR Neptune 9°28 Pisces
SR Eros 11°26 Pisces
n Eros 8°21 Pisces
n CERI 9°10 Pisces

SR DESC 9°28 Virgo
SR CERI 10°41 Virgo
n Amor 9°03 Virgo
n Jupiter 10°10 Virgo
n Mars 11°06 Virgo
n P (his name) 10°26 Virgo

posted January 05, 2017 12:10 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
pick Ebertin-style with midpoints under chart drawing style, and then if you go to the pdf files you can see the midpoints (you will ahve to click on aspects to all objects though for the Lilith-SElene midpoint to come up I think)

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posted January 05, 2017 12:41 PM            

I can read your stuff... and only marvel right now. Your astro skills are much more advanced than mine. Kudos!

posted January 05, 2017 07:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
pick Ebertin-style with midpoints under chart drawing style, and then if you go to the pdf files you can see the midpoints (you will ahve to click on aspects to all objects though for the Lilith-SElene midpoint to come up I think)

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