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Author Topic:   Asteroid names are 'retroactive'. Now what?
dubbhism
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From: Dubhe
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posted July 06, 2018 04:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everybody,

One of the things that amazes me the most when i think of asteroids is the fact that most of them got named in the 20th and 21st century, but still they can be found in charts that are even more than 2000 years old. Like a kind of retroactive effect of the (official) name.

Does anybody have some thoughts on this phenomenon? About the nature of time and free will and so on? :-)

I've written a blog with some historic examples, but i'm sure many of you have noticed the same thing. It's just that i can't find a lot of discussion of this subject. Any thoughts?

Here's the blogpost http://www.dubbhism.org/2018/07/the-retroactive-effect-of-asteroid-names_5.html#more

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Lerena
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posted July 06, 2018 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In theory, if a name fits an asteroid, an asteroid being unnamed shouldn't matter, because any asteroid would function the exact same way regardless.

When it comes to synchronicity, I first began to experience it in late 2014, and I didn't pick up on the synchronicity in question until Halloween in 2015. To be sure I wasn't biased, I checked for synchronicity before I even knew the word. There were some interesting asteroids at work through transits to my astrology chart when synchronicity took place, which is why I believe conscious knowledge is not necessarily required for synchronicity to occur. This means that even without a name, asteroids work exactly as expected no matter how far in the future they are actually named.

Additionally, transits from planets to asteroids definitely work just as well as natal aspects. From your blog post, this seems to be something you already know. I learned this the hard way and I'm very fortunate that the transit didn't play out the way it could have.

I definitely agree with what your blog post says.

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dubbhism
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From: Dubhe
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posted July 07, 2018 05:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Lerena,

I agree with what you say about unnamed asteroids, it shouldn't matter. But i assume it's difficult to find out their 'future names' because there are about half a million unnamed asteroids and counting.

Maybe someone on the forum can see these names in the future? It's such a tantalizing subject. I want to know if there is a Bob Marley asteroid, or a Jim Morrison asteroid or maybe a Vettius Valens asteroid :-)

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Lerena
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posted July 10, 2018 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lerena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's pretty difficult to study an asteroid that hasn't been named yet. I'm sure there's a way to pull it off, but I don't think a lot of people try to do it. A name tends to give the asteroid some context through which to study how the asteroid works.

It's a shame that so many asteroids are currently unnamed. For many of the unnamed ones, it may not be ready for their time in the spotlight (in this case, meaning being given a name).

I'm a bit curious what names the unnamed asteroids will get, but I don't think I'll be alive long enough to see them all get names.

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Randall
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posted July 12, 2018 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome!

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dubbhism
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From: Dubhe
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posted July 14, 2018 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lerena:
[B]I think it's pretty difficult to study an asteroid that hasn't been named yet. I'm sure there's a way to pull it off, but I don't think a lot of people try to do it.

Hey Lerena, i just found an example online of how people might pull it off. Check out this page on magic, money and asteroids.
http://www.vamzzz.com/blog/money-astrology-money-magic/

The writes suggests that some Russian team got lots of charts from people who won a lottery and then they probably used a big computer and maybe even modern tricks like artificial intelligence to see the patterns. And they came up with an unnamed asteroid 15874 (1996 TL66). I guess that's a pretty good way to try it, but you probably need some computer programming skills :-)

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Ami Anne
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posted July 17, 2018 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The little r is retrograde, my Friend

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dubbhism
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posted July 18, 2018 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well at least it's the r :-)
http://www.ayurastro.com/articles/mercury-retrograde-amazon-review-misspellings-and-artificial-intelligence

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arcturus90
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posted July 19, 2018 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for arcturus90     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OF COURSE asteroids do work even before they were named. I'm disappointed you are asking yourself this question. It should be an evidence...
But... maybe celebrities asteroids don't... But I think they do.

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dubbhism
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posted July 22, 2018 05:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't want to disappoint anybody, but here's the thing:

- i'm myself fully convinced of the 'retroactive effect' of naming, including celebrity cases;
- i have tried to come up with an easy way to explain this to friends;
- my semi-skeptical friends who i have 'converted' to asteroid astrology so far have all raised this point of warped time/time paradoxes, it seems like a natural question;
- the IAU surely wouldn't like to admit that they're part of this;
- it seems to me that the subject is more relevant/notable in the case of asteroids than in the case of planets or stars

That's why i'd like to know if anybody on the asteroid subforum has some more general ideas on the subject, aside from just believing it because you're an experienced astrologer who sees it work all the time. For example: how you would handle this question if a somewhat skeptical friend would ask you about it?

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angel4845
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posted July 23, 2018 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would prove it to people by showing them return charts including these name asteroids and bringing up the event charts in synastry with the natal charts. i would also use DATE asteroids as well to prove them that name asteroids are LEGIT in astrology. I've done it before and shocked some people. I have an article on my website involving name asteroids that you might enjoy reading tell me what you think

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dubbhism
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posted July 24, 2018 03:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Angelica,

I checked out your article. An interesting case, but to be honest i don't get how it can help me talk to people about time-paradoxes, other than that you give proof that name asteroids work very well, and are very important. By the way: what do you mean by DATE asteroids?

There was already some confusion in this thread about what i'm after, so i don't want you to get me wrong. I understand very well that the astrological world view sees the whole of creation as interconnected - often even through time - and overflowing with symbolic meanings. And there's a lot of proof for it, more than enough proof in my opinion. So i don't want to prove anything to people, i just want to get a better feel for 'time paradoxes' and how we can communicate about this whole subject to people who are confused about it, or not ready to accept certain consequences of how it seems to work.

In my experience 'somewhat skeptical' people who are willing to listen to an astrologer, or who are just curious, can accept the idea of universal interconnectedness quite easily. Maybe because even science has proven this point in some sense, in quantum mechanics.

But when they find out that an asteroid's name was given to it 'after the fact' so to speak, things become a lot more difficult to accept for some people. I think this is probably because it brings up the whole free will vs. destiny thing. Of course, astrologers have quite different views on this subject. Some will say that we can't predict the future with enough accuracy and precision. Others say we can.

If we zoom in further on accuracy and precision, it's very clear to me that generally speaking, names of asteroids are VERY precise and VERY accurate, both in the past and in the future, altho their names were not always known to humans and are therefore in some sense 'from the future'.

That's why i'm wondering how we can talk about this subject to people who are a little bit skeptical. Especially since opinions on the amount of free will that people have vary considerably (i personally think we have about 5% free will, others say 50% or 75%).

Again: it's not that i want to prove that name asteroids work (just look at the position of transiting asteroid Caesar in the chart of Julius Caesar on the day he was famously stabbed 23 times by Brutus and his group of Roman senators... it's exactly conjunct Pluto... and so on and so on).

What i want is to give people a practical sense of how they can deal with the way astrological time works, but i want to do so without imposing my personal ideas on free will and destiny, if that is at all possible.

So far i have used two approaches to try to help people visualize this. Either i've told them to imagine their future/destiny as a kind of magnet that pulls and pushes you in a general direction, or i try it with a yin/yang idea of time, inviting people to think about time as both sequential (the normal time in the way we experience it) AND simultaneous (everything is also happening at once). I'm wondering which other metaphors or ideas could be used to explain weird time-paradoxes in a simple way.

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angel4845
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posted July 24, 2018 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your feedback! Iím glad you enjoyed it itís nice to meet a name asteroid believer such as myself

When it comes to time paradoxes itís pretty complicated, and In my opinion I think itís not quite possible to get skeptical people to have a full understanding of it. I believe your idea on how to get people to understand it is right on! But In the end I personally believe you canít force someone to believe in something, I believe in order for these people to believe in this is through events that will change/transform there minds/philosophy on these views. This topic is indeed complicated but as I said in the end I have been correct with interpreting giving accurate readings to my past clients and those skeptical and in the end they are just in denial. By this experience in a way I have given up to convince anyone.

ďIf we zoom in further on accuracy and precision, it's very clear to me that generally speaking, names of asteroids are VERY precise and VERY accurate, both in the past and in the future, altho their names were not always known to humans and are therefore in some sense 'from the future'.ď I agreeeee
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angel4845
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posted July 24, 2018 02:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also why do you believe hat free will is 5%? Iíd love to know

Date asteroids example today is July 24 2018 so in Astro.com just put 72418 usually these date asteroids have no name given but even when the name is given I feel it can still be quite accurate but not as accurate as just 72418. Experiement it!!

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dubbhism
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posted July 25, 2018 03:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dubbhism     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Angelica,

I have to say i fully agree with what you're saying. Not trying to 'force' people to believe is something i had to learn. I think it's a lot like appreciating a work of art. You can't force someone to like a painting, and see the various layers of meaning and beauty in it, not even if it's by Vincent van Gogh or by Frida Kahlo or by ... [insert name of your favorite artist].

The data asteroid idea is great!! I will definitely try it. One of my favorite approaches with asteroids is history. In my next project i'm going to try to reconstruct key episodes in the life of Julius Caesar using asteroids like Caesar, Kleopatra, Cicero, Roma etc. etc.. I'm very curious if your method will help me with that :-)

About the 5% free will: i have two reasons for saying that. The first reason is a bit scientific: in behaviour psychology it is often assumed that around 95% of the decisions we make in our daily life are more or less subconscious. The psychologists who make this point will typically also point to the needs of the 'reptile brain' and so on. (I think asteroids like Ixion get us quite close to that reptile brain.)

The second reason is more personal: i'm quite aware of all kinds of sychronicities happening around me all the time. This is something that probably varies from person to person, altho it also has to do with paying attention and getting better at noticing things with your 'symbolic eye' so to speak.

I see so much of this going on that i have almost a permanent sense of being nudged in a certain direction. Carl Jung talks about synchronicity in terms of 'compensation', meaning that the Universe more or less restores your balance by giving symbolic clues and hints. But sometimes i wonder (this is perhaps a bit cynical of me) if that technical Jungian term 'compensation' is a eufemism for a process that could also be labelled 'correction' ;-)

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Randall
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posted July 26, 2018 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, date Asteroids. Interesting!

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angel4845
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posted July 26, 2018 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with you Dubbhism! have fun with the date asteroids tell me how it goes!! and thank you for sharing your explanation on free will

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starsaboveyoureadings.com
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angel4845
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posted July 26, 2018 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for angel4845     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Ah, date Asteroids. Interesting!

yessss! have fun with them!!

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starsaboveyoureadings.com
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