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Author Topic:   Teacher, I have a question!
stella polaris
unregistered
posted October 28, 2002 02:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are we allowed to ask questions or do we have to wait untill the right lesson? Well, since I already have rised my hand, I give it a try:
*I've never understood Moon connected to fame - for instance that Moon in the 10th might put you in front of the public. Can someone explain this, please?
* When using equal house system, MC and 10th house cusp is not the same. I suppose 10th house is still the house for career and social status. How do one interpret MC? Does MC show HOW you go ahead in life (for instance, like a Bull or like a Lion?)
Thank you, teacher!

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MARY
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posted October 29, 2002 03:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question too??
I have only mars in Sag in the 12th house.
What does that say of my karma?

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Randall
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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted October 30, 2002 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Questions like this are probably better asked in one of the Astrology Forums. But we'll get to all of it eventually in the Course.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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MARY
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posted October 31, 2002 09:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Randall

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MARY
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posted November 12, 2002 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How do I find the Negative things in a chart?

Ex: crazy people, people who kill others, parents that abuse their children...etc.
I have only positive thing to interpret a chart... I don't know how to find the other??
Yet, there are very bad people out there?
Sorry I had to ask this, now...Because I need to know.

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Cat
Newflake

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From: USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 12, 2002 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Mary
I answered your question on the Astrology Forum.
Mars square Pluto can be a tough one
Sue

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MARY
unregistered
posted November 12, 2002 01:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you very much Cat... I'll go there.
instead of using up the space for our lessons.

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Gregory
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posted November 13, 2002 02:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Cat. Mary (and Stella) I definitely want you to ask questions, but if we can keep the questions here at least somewhat related to the current lesson it will help everybody stay focused. This is actually one of the hardest things about really "learning" astrology, the discipline to work through the fundamentals step by step ... there are so many interesting aspects of astrology that there is a strong tendency to jump around all over the territory whenever somebody mentions something you don't know about, or whenever a question arises from thinking about your own chart or someone else's. Nothing wrong with that at all, and there are several threads and forums for asking general questions about any aspect of astrology ... but there's also a value in learning the whole discipline in a structured way, because when you have a complete grasp of the fundamentsls you'll find that many questions answer themselves; whereas without that structured grasp of basics, getting lots of questions answered can lead to having lots of isolated "bits" of knowledge that don't necessarily fit into the big picture in a coherent way.

Anyway, here I'd like to stay focused at least generally on the subject matter covered in this lesson, so we can work together as a group to getting to a point where everybody feels like they've "got it" and is ready to move on. Stella, your 10th house/MC question definitely falls into this lesson's material. The Moon question less so, but I'll give you my own quick insight into that. The Moon itself has nothing to do with fame, but it has everything to do with your own emotional drives and motivations ... so where it falls into an area of the chart concerned with fame or outer recognition (like the 10th house of career and public accomplishments, or perhaps the 5th house of creative expression) it can signify a strong DRIVE toward fame. And certainly strong emotional motivation and desire-driven intention has everything to do with what we actually succeed in bringing to manifestation in our lives. Does that make sense?

The difference between the 10th house cusp and the midheaven is probably the most confusing thing about the equal house system. The MC actually means the same thing regardless of which house system you use ... it is your public persona, how you come across in your dealings with the outer world. In this respect it is very similar to the other highly important "angle" of your chart, the Ascendant. The difference is that the ascendant shows how you appear to others as an individual human being, whereas the MC shows how you appear to others in terms of your public role, your "place in the world." This is often closely related to 10th house career issues, but is not necessarily the same thing. To get a feel for what this means, think back to any public figure that you admire, whose biography or autobiography you have read. You will realize that a famous general or political leader, for example, may have a public image as someone bold and decisive ... whereas when you read their biography you may find that they actually present a very different image to their close friends and acquaintances, maybe as more thoughtful and contemplative. The personal self-image is what the ascendant reflects, while the public self-image is reflected in the MC.

The other major thing to keep in mind is that when the MC is not the 10th house cusp, it has nothing to do with house rulership ... so if your 10th house cusp is, say, Virgo, but your MC is in Leo in the 9th, you will have a Leo public image (i.e., strong projection of authority, sincerity, loyalty, etc.) but your actual approach to work-related issues will be more analytical, perfectionistic, and focused on "getting the job done right" ... expressions of Virgo qualities!

Love,
Greg

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Love alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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Cat
Newflake

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From: USA
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posted November 13, 2002 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greg you're a

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Randall
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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted November 14, 2002 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're a natural-born Teacher, Greg.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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stella polaris
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posted November 17, 2002 02:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Greg, thank you for your explanations. The MC/10th house thing really makes sense - and gives the equal house system another star in my book...I mean, when you separate MC and 10th house you really add another facet to a person. For instance, I have a friend with Pisces MC, in the 8th house, while the cusp of his 10th house is in Aries. He has a semi-artistic profession and has a public image of being somehow a dreamer with a great imagination and great fantasy. He's been plutonian down and up socially - loosing everything (profesionally), but come back strong again. (He's also "inherited" a social positon, the wellknown family name and the same profession as his father - is that a 8th house thing?). The way he approaches every new (work) project is with the strong fire and enthusiasm of Mars, no job is too big to scare him...A dary dreamer. Actually, I'd say he's rather daring otherwise, too - driving fast, skiing fast, etc.

Another question: If you do a birth chart in equal house system and a chart for the same person in Placidus, also some of the planets will end up in different houses. One chart will show for instance Saturn in the 1st house, the other chart Saturn in 3rd house. So how do you interpret this? That Saturn will make it's influence in both life areas (houses)?

As for The Moon...I'm not going to nag you like I nagged Donna at my post in Astrology forum..I'll just add that I fond what I looked for in Alan Oken's Astrology: "The Moon is a symbol of everything that is receptive in human nature...The Moon represents the capacity to attract other people...The strenght and the weakness of the Moon's placement in a chart is important when it comes to deciding the individual's personal magnetism.."
Thanks again,
Stella

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Gregory
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posted November 17, 2002 05:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heh, heh, Stella you're probably not going to like my answer to this question, but my advice is, DON'T do the same person's chart in two different house systems!

Especially as a beginner, but even as an experienced astrologer, looking at the same chart through different house systems will only add confusion. It's not that either one is "right" and the other "wrong," but they represent two different "frames of reference," and to make sense of a chart you need a stable platform through which to view it.

Now there are occasional exceptions to this. On rare occasions when I am spending a lot of time with a chart and looking at everything in it from every possible angle, I will occasionally cast it in Koch or Placidus to get a fresh "take" on it, and occasionally this will highlight some significant theme that I've missed before.

The other exception, ironically, IS when you are a beginner and trying to decide which house system feels the most "natural" to you, to adopt as your primary system. Here it can be helpful to cast the chart of someone you know really well (including yourself ) and interpret it independently using first one house system then another. You'll probably find that one of the charts makes more sense to you, and seems to describe that person's character more accurately. When you've done this a few times, you'll have a much better idea which system to "settle in" on for your regular work.

But you NEVER want to do a single reading where you use two house systems in the same reading. Each one is an internally consistent portrait of the person in itself, from its own "point of view," but if you try to mix them you'll get a picture that doesn't ring true.

In visual arts like drawing or painting you need to have a single "vanishing point" for your perspective lines, to create the appearance of depth. But if you tried to draw a picture with two different vanishing points, using one of them for some of your lines and the other one for other lines, your picture would come out looking "off kilter" ... twisted, unrealistic, inconsistent, hard to grasp. Same thing for a chart reading using two different house systems!

Good for you for tracking down your Moon question in Oken! Alan is a very perceptive astrologer, especially from a spiritual perspective. Glad you found an explanation that resonated!

Love,
Greg

------------------
Love alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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Sher bear
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posted November 18, 2002 12:45 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh my Goodness - I have no clue what so ever...MC Cusp - oh man I sure hope it's all gonna make sense soon.......

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stella polaris
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posted November 18, 2002 01:59 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WHAT!! Here I've had great fun looking at the charts of myself, friends and family with equal and Placidus, thinking that the two charts together adds extra information, and then you're telling me that the picture gets blurred??!!
And what do you say to a person that doesn't quite believe in astrology because one houses system will say one thing and another something else? (OK, you probably say: Get a better astrologer...)

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Gregory
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posted November 18, 2002 05:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hee hee, Stella nothing wrong with amusing yourself that way, just don't expect it to add any clarity to the process!

As far as anyone not believing in astrology because different house systems have different placements, I can think of a lot better reasons than that not to believe in astrology! How about Vedic and Western astrology -- you don't even have the same Sun sign in those two! All kidding aside, though, the important thing to keep in mind is that with astrology we are dealing with a different kind of knowledge than objective "facts," and if you expect the horoscope to conform to empirical validation rules of any kind, you'll be disappointed ... that's just not the kind of animal it is.

The horoscope is more like a "mythological portrait" about your life than a factual biography. Like a myth, it is an "analog" of your life rather than a concrete description of it. You know how the really important myths of mankind tell the same story in many different ways? Like the hero's quest, or the creation story, there are many different versions of these myths, with different characters and different specifics, but you can tell that they are all describing the same thing, just in different words. It's not that one is "true" and the others are "false." Same thing with the horoscope. There are different house systems, different zodiacs (tropical and sidereal), different theories about which aspects are important and which ones aren't, and so on. If we think that one way must be "true" and all the others must be "false" then we are misunderstanding. They are all valid analogs, or myths, or "poetic descriptions" of the person, just from different points of view. But the more completely familiar with any zodiac or house system or aspect set or whatever we are, the more useful that method of constructing the horoscope is to us ... because we "speak its language" fluently. Linda Goodman's approach to this was to use primarily the "classical" methods (like the equal house system) rather than newer approaches to house systems and aspects and asteroids and so on), on the theory that these methods have been studied and recorded and thought about by the human mind for longer than any other methods ... therefore they are better understood and hence more useful! I have pretty much the same idea about it myself, but each astrologer must make those decisions for him/herself.

In the beginning, however, it is best to stick to the classical basics until they become second-nature to you, because they are the solid foundation for all variations!

Sher bear, have you read the course material for this lesson yet? If not, please do:

Part II Lesson Material

and then ask away! All will become clear, I promise you ... just takes a little time and concentration.

Love,
Greg

------------------
Love alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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stella polaris
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posted November 19, 2002 05:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, Master Greg!
I'll stop comparing, ditch the Placidus charts and replace them with equal...I think I've seen enough to prefer the latter.
Out of curiosity: How is a chart calculated in Vedic astrology? I mean, the Sun and the planets are where they are..

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Cat
Newflake

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From: USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 19, 2002 07:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Stella
How is a chart calculated in Verdic astrology......now you really are trying to confuse yourself
Sue

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stella polaris
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posted November 19, 2002 10:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nothing is confusing when master Greg explains it!

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Cat
Newflake

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From: USA
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posted November 19, 2002 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Stella
Yes I know Greg is a brilliant teacher.

As he said earlier in this thread though...let's try to keep the questions to be somewhat related to the lesson

Verdic astrology is very different to what we are doing on this course - in fact it's not something we really look at on this site. You could try posting questions about Verdic Astrology on the Astrology Forum if you're really interesting in learning more about it.
Sue

PS: Here's a link for you. Click on enter the site and you will see what a verdic chart looks like.
http://www.bava.org/

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stella polaris
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posted November 19, 2002 03:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Cat, thanks for the link. That chart looked..weird. I wasn't looking for a lecture at Vedic astrology, I was only curious from an astronomical point of view.. A natal chart is the picture of the sky the moment we were born. So what do Vedic astrologers take a picture of? Or maybe I should ask "how"? That falls under our lesson or what?
I'm trying to profit as much as I can on this great chance to be able to ask questions to people who KNOW...But I fully understand if Greg or any other of the teachers don't have the capacity to answer. Thanks anyway, I'm learning a lot.

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Cat
Newflake

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From: USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 19, 2002 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Stella
Yes the Verdic "method" is very different and I agree..the chart looks strange.
I just posted it so you could get a visual on a Verdic chart.
I've never studied Verdic Astrology myself. I think it's interesting but I do feel you either specialise in one or the other.

I'm really pleased that you're enjoying this course
Sue

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Gregory
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posted November 19, 2002 08:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stella, the short and simple answer is that Vedic astrology uses a different zodiac than western astrology. Western astrology (what we're studying here) uses the tropical zodiac. This is the zodiac that is defined by the intersection of the plane of the ecliptic and the plane of the celestial equator on the first day of spring, as described in the lesson material on this page:

link to "The intersection of the planes"

Vedic astrology, on the other hand, uses the sidereal (star-based) zodiac, which is linked directly to the physical constellations rather than to a mathematically-defined starting point. In other words, in the sidereal zodiac, the sign of Aries is approximately where the constellation Aries is in the sky, the sign of Taurus is where the constellation Taurus is, and so on.

The confusion in that system is that since the constellations don't take up exactly thirty degrees each (some are bigger and some are smaller), and there is no real "dividing line" between them, there is a certain amount of arbitrariness in deciding where to draw the starting point (0 degrees Aries) of the zodiac. This starting point is called the ayanamsha, and different astrologers use different ayanamshas.

Aside from the different zodiac, the Vedic chart is a picture of the skies from the point of view of the time and place of birth, just like the western horoscope. It's calculated exactly the same way, except that the starting point is adjusted by the amount of the ayanamsha, but it's drawn differently (and some of the interpretive rules are different too.)

Now I have a question for YOU. Why do you suppose our zodiac is called the "tropical" zodiac? If you can figure that one out (it's not that hard) you get a gold star!!

Love,
Greg

------------------
Love alone is eternal and unconquerable.

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Jaqueline
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posted November 19, 2002 09:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Greg

Nice to meet you
Well, I'm here since the beginning of the course,but now,I introduce myself

I think I have the answer to this question,but I'm quite sure that my friend Stella also does.
And she deserves the Gold Star

So, I'm waiting for her reply

Jakie

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 17243
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 20, 2002 12:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greg, it is truly a pleasure reading your responses. Thank you for taking the time to share your wisdom (and wit) with us.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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stella polaris
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posted November 20, 2002 02:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Ehh..eh..tropical zodiac? Tropical comes from the Greek word tropos, which means turning...The Sun starts at the celestial equator, moves towards the tropic of Cancer where it turns towards equator again and then moves to the tropic of Capricorn where it turns again..When it's back at celestial equator it's been a year. A tropical year. And that's the foundation for tropical zodiac???

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