posted September 22, 2006 12:34 AM              

The chart patterns are sometimes very exact and other times all we can do is see what comes closest to the chart pattern. The description of a "Locomotive chart" is:

quote:

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Locomotive pattern - "All planets fall within 240 degrees (or a maximum of 250 degrees) with no more than two houses or 60 degrees empty within the occupied area, and with a trine bridging the unoccupied area...energetic, self-driving, determined individual who single-mindedly focuses upon achieving...[their] purpose, which is generally indicated by the midpoint of the empty trine...[The way to find the most important planet in the horoscope is to just point to the empty space, that empty one third of the circle. Then, move your finger COUNTERCLOCKWISE until you reach a planet. That planet is the engine. - from Bob Marks]; its sign and house position indicates the energy which fuels...[their] drive to incorporate the midpoint of the empty trine into...[their] life."

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If this chart is a locomotive, the "empty trine" is between Jupiter and Moon. Jupiter and Moon are not in a trine by aspect (120 degrees from each other - indicating the rest of the chart is not exactly 240 degrees: 360 degrees - 120 degrees = 240 degrees), but it IS close to a trine. If the Moon were at 0 degrees Aquarius, it would be exactly trine. Since the Moon is at 14 degrees Aquarius, it is 14 degrees outside of trine...this makes the rest of the chart more than 250 degrees. So this is not a TRUE locomotive chart according to the definition...but it is as close as we are going to get and include all the planets in SOME type of aspect pattern!

So let's PRETEND it is a locomotive and see what happens! Following Bob Marks suggestion, we would move our finger to Jupiter (expansion, also wisdom) as the "engine". The energy (sign and house postion) is Gemini (thinking) and 12th house (spirituality). So the need to know is powered by a thinking spirituality focused on the midpoint of the space between Jupiter and Moon...somewhere in the 10th house (duty, also structure, career). This indicates there is a focus on career or structure of some sort. That is...if you actually HAVE a locomotive chart!

Charting inexactly,

posted September 23, 2006 12:11 AM              

The emphasis in fan charts is on the "handle planet" (the planet separate from the rest of the chart) and seeing the "handle planet" as a way the person gets a "handle" on their life. Here is something which goes into a little more detail: http://www.myastrologybook.com/fan-kite-planetary-pattern-astrology.htm

Fanning,

posted September 23, 2006 07:49 AM              

The basic psychology of the fan is to seek out and use the resources of others for personal fulfillment and completion.(That sounds like a parasite........I don't understand; I see myself as pretty independent.) The fan’s reality is grounded in the house and sign of the handle planet. This is the point in your chart that you can rely upon when all else fails, like the roots of a tree reaching out for nourishment.
(That makes sense).

posted September 24, 2006 02:46 PM            

There are more descriptions there that all say the same thing.

posted September 25, 2006 01:31 AM              

It's YOUR chart! If you want to have a bucket with Saturn as the handle...that's up to you! However, I AM a Virgo (daily work, also analysis) and I DO love to overanalyze things , so, if it is OK, I will re-explain why I think Jupiter is the handle of your bucket...and you can tell me what you think (but be careful...they censor what people say on this site! )!

First of all, let's mostly use your links, since they make my point as well as the quote from Tracy Marks. The key to me is that the planets have be "occupying approximately one-half of a horoscope". Looking at your chart, it is very easy to get EIGHT of your ten planets on one side of the horoscope. If we look at the line (opposition) drawn between Saturn and Mercury, we see this line divides the chart into a top half and a bottom half. On the bottom half is: Saturn, Moon, Pluto, Uranus, Mars, Neptune, Venus, and Mercury. That's quite a LOT of planets..and they are all on one side of the chart, just like a bowl chart.

In fact, if these were the only eight planets in astrology, your chart WOULD be a bowl...according to your link: "all planets within a 180° arc, leaving one half of the Figure untenanted." So, if there were only these eight planets in astrology, the bowl description would work very well for your chart! However, life, and astrology, is a little more complex than that! So now we have two planets "left over" from our "perfect bowl"...what to do? what to do?

posted September 25, 2006 01:32 AM              

And now, in fairness, we can take a look at your suggestion: "Wouldn't the bowl be my Moon to Jupiter"? Well, it COULD be your Moon to Jupiter, except that that there is almost a square (90 degrees) between Moon and Jupiter, making this only about a 90 degree angle and not the 180 degrees needed to make the perfect bowl (as your quote mentioned a "180° arc"). You would be missing about 1/2 (about 90 degrees) of the required 180 degrees of a full bowl. If all you had in your chart was a cluster of planets (i.e., the Moon square Jupiter you describe) with one opposing planet (Saturn, in this case) to the middle of the cluster, you would call this chart closer to a fan than a bucket (see mystical's chart in this posting section to see a fan type chart).

But you have an opposition that divides the chart into a heavily planeted area and a much less heavily planeted area...and this opposition is between Saturn and Mercury. And so we divide the chart between Saturn and Mercury, look for the most outlying planet (Jupiter), and call this a bucket chart.

If you want to see another example of a bucket chart with a handle, see my chart! In my originally posting I, too, mistakenly called Saturn the handle of my bucket chart. But once I realized that my stellium (collection) of energy functions as a POINT in the chart (e.g., ONE energy), I was able to see that Saturn opposing the stellium as a WHOLE is the dividing part of the chart, making the top part of the chart the "bowl" part of the chart, and making Neptune the handle of the bucket part of the chart.

Bowling them over in a bucket,

posted September 26, 2006 11:17 AM              

I think the chart has a clear bucket in it but a good case can be made for adding in an implied fan pattern.

Agreeing,

posted September 26, 2006 11:27 AM              

It's taken me a while to continue with my homework! haha. so here goes..

I think the handle of my bucket is my Moon in Gemini in the 11th house??

The boundaries of my bundle are.. Pluto and Jupiter?

Jupiter being hte first to cross the Ascendant??

I am getting confused because there is so much in this thread now haha.

Hope I'm on the right track..

posted September 26, 2006 01:43 PM              

You asked:

quote:

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...Does my handle indicate that I should undertake formal studies?...Any ideas how energies might be channeled through that Jupiter (in Cap in the 8th) handle?

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I think you answered your own question! Capricorn (duty, also formal) Jupiter (expansion, also studies) could be indicated by this energy. The energy is focused in the 8th house (transformation, also other people's money, occult) so there may be possibilities in doing finance of some sort...or in continuing your occult studies such as astrology.

Guessing,

posted September 26, 2006 02:05 PM              

You said:

quote:

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I think the handle of my bucket is my Moon in Gemini in the 11th house??
The boundaries of my bundle are.. Pluto and Jupiter?
Jupiter being hte first to cross the Ascendant??

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I definitely think you are on the right track with the bundle...Pluto and Jupiter are clearly the boundaries of the bundle. But I think you may be off a little with the bucket. I think this is because you are looking for a planet that is "far enought out" to be a "handle"...and that Moon of yours is certainly off by itself in the chart!

However, let me rephrase a recent posting I made to AG and see if this helps explain bucket charts a little better:

I think you are right, you do have a bucket chart. However, I do NOT think Moon is the handle. The reason is because of this part of the definition of a "bucket chart":

quote:

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...All planets fall within 180 degrees (or a maximum of 190 degrees) and on one side of an opposition [making a "bowl pattern"]...

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The opposition between planets in your chart is between Moon and Mercury. So Moon can NOT be the "handle"...since it's part of the "bowl pattern" of the "bucket chart". So now we are looking for the "handle" of the bucket:

quote:

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...a handle [is added to the "bowl pattern"]...a planet or two closely conjunct planets at least 30 degrees from the planets within the bowl...

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So what planet(s)/point(s) is/are on the OTHER side of the Mooon-Mercury opposition and at least (about) 30 degrees away from the other planets?

I also think you are a little off with the first planet to have crossed the Ascendant. There is another planet, before Jupiter, that is the first planet to have crossed the Ascendant, moving clockwise. To see this planet, put your finger on the Ascendant, then move your finger in the direction the clock goes (i.e., move your finger up and to the right, as if you were following a second hand around a clock face with your finger). Now what is the first planet your finger touches?

You are doing great and are VERY good at getting back to me with your answers. Rather than simply telling you the answer, I'd like the answer to come from you. So, when you have a moment, let me know your thoughts about my reply and let me know your answers! And, if there is anything in what I am saying that is confusing to you, let me know that as well!

Answering (and asking) questions,

posted September 27, 2006 11:04 AM              

From the get go I'm not sure I understand Moon/Mercury opposition.. I see Moon opposing Sun, Uranus, and Saturn.

However, given that information, I see that the handle of the bucket would be Pluto and Venus, which are within 30 degrees of the bucket. (I was going to say Jupiter and Mars at first since they look more like a handle, but they are too far away!)

As for the first planet crossing the Ascendant, I see now that it is the Moon. You were saying this is the energy of the bundle?

Very interesting stuff, can't wait to hear back from you.

posted September 27, 2006 06:16 PM              

That's right! Great job! I mentioned Mercury opposing Moon because Mercury is conjunct (energy is combined with) Saturn, and Saturn is opposite Mercury. So, by connection to Saturn, Mercury takes on this "oppositional" energy.

So the Moon is the frist planet to have crossed the Ascendant, so Moon (home, also emotions) energy is used to achieve in your life. The "far midpoint" of the bundle is in your 12th house (spirituality), so it is possible that you have an emotional connection to spirituality somehow.

As to your bucket, Pluto (transformation, also power) conjunct Venus (physical, also desire/relationships) is the focus of your bundle, indicating you have a powerful desire in your relationships. This energy is used to achieve things in the house where Pluto and Venus are. What house are Pluto and Venus in? This indicates where your powerful relationships are focused.

Still asking questions,

posted September 29, 2006 12:39 PM              

Thanks for clarifying the Mercury opp Moon thing. Makes sense!

I do have a strong connection to spirituality, that's becoming more apparent recently.

Pluto and Venus are in the 4th house. I've always had a hard time interpreting this. I am not a home-body, nor do I have particular desires to have things are certain way in my home environment. Emotions are a huge part of my life and very up and down, but my rational side usually takes over in that area.

I have huge issues with letting people in, though. I'm not sure if that's apparent in this area of the chart. I fear obligation in any way, or infringement on my freedom. I'm hyper-sensitive to restriction, to the point where I create the sense of entrapment myself.

I could really use some help with those placements as well as Jupiter and Pluto being on the boundaries of my bucket.

posted September 29, 2006 04:31 PM              

You said:

quote:

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I have particular desires to have things are certain way in my home environment.

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Quite often "transformational" Pluto also indicates a need to be "in control" of things. With Pluto focused in the 4th house (home), you may be concerned with controlling your home...as you indicate in your message.

In control,

posted July 10, 2007 10:36 AM              

I would say you have a "bucket pattern".

quote:

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Bowl pattern - "All planets fall within 180 degrees (or a maximum of 190 degrees) and on one side of an opposition, and no more than 60 degrees or two houses of the occupied portion of the chart are empty..."

Bucket pattern - "...a bowl pattern with a handle...a planet or two closely conjunct planets at least 30 degrees from the planets within the bowl...channels...[their] energy through the handle of the bucket. The sign and house position of this singleton or focal planet usually indicates the kind of energy this person most frequently expresses and the area of life through which... [they] seek satisfaction."

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Pluto opposite Moon forms the "bowl side" and Saturn (duty) is the "handle" of the bucket. So duty is VERY important to you and you express your energy in talking (Gemini) so you can learn (9th house).

In a bucket,

posted July 10, 2007 11:25 AM              

1.

2.ummmmmmm, i think it's a bucket chart but i'm not 100% sure

posted July 10, 2007 12:36 PM              

I think you are right!

Rightly,