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Author Topic:   Midpoints are a mystery to me
LeoSagRisingTaurusMoon
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posted March 03, 2020 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeoSagRisingTaurusMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never managed to wrap my head around midpoints, I've been reading but I often find myself at a loss on this matter.

My astrological software dedicates three section to midpoints (it's a lot!) but it's all greek to me, and I find this so unnerving.

Someone could enlighten me?

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Randall
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posted March 03, 2020 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Feel free to ask this in Astrology 2.0 also.

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Graham
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posted March 04, 2020 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Without knowing what it is that you do not understand ... how does one enlighten you?

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 04:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeoSagRisingTaurusMoon:
I never managed to wrap my head around midpoints, I've been reading but I often find myself at a loss on this matter.

My astrological software dedicates three section to midpoints (it's a lot!) but it's all greek to me, and I find this so unnerving.

Someone could enlighten me?


I don't know but I'll try 😊
Think of the planets as mountains, you have mount venus and mount mars, the midpoint would be a luxuary vantage point from which you'd get to see both mounts in a very clear way. Got that baby image? 😉 it can explain why it's interesting to look at what touches that point because if it does, it's naturally perceived by both mounts.
Not just that, planets aren't just mountains, they're magical mountains, they radiate sparkles and rainbows, thunder or smokey fire or all of those... the vantage point is also where those vibrations meet with equal intensity; if you're too close to one of the mountains, that'll be the one you'll mostly feel, but tucked in the midpoint you get to experience both their energies as a unique equalised blend. (??? 🙈 )
I imagine the importance varies depending on each chart, for example, my venus and mars are square, hence the midpoint and what touches it might mean a bunch to me as my planets require an effort to tune to one another. My sun and venus are quite close and both conjunct my asc which may be their midpoint, things that touch my asc usually also touch either my venus or sun directly, so I think it matters a little less as the planets/angles are directly involved.

Disclaimer: this is lindaland so some all knowing ******* may barge in insulting my intellect because I failed to render their obtuse and radical way of stating their truth that they think universal, that's cuntic behaviour, let's pay no mind to it, at least I tried and I'm honest and upftont about simply trying.
I may very well be wrong, that I'm on board with 😊 but I tried and hope it helps a bit.

Midpoints make sense to me but I'm confused about composite midpoints, something seems too diluted there... the midpoint of a midpoint... people still exist even as they change and merge in relationship, what will be felt more prominently? A composite aspect? A composite aspect to a composite midpoint? A composite aspect to a natal chart? And the synastry? It doesn't disappear once the composite sets in... I think all those are worth it but establishing the hierarchy is out of cookbook astrology's reach.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 07:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
some all knowing ******* may barge in insulting my intellect because I failed to render their obtuse and radical way of stating their truth that they think universal

Another analogy might be 125ml of red wine + 125ml of white wine = 250ml of rose wine. ... Or, abuse of power + Me Too movement = prison term.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 08:25 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

Another analogy might be 125ml of red wine + 125ml of white wine = 250ml of rose wine.


*runs to the cupboard to blend red and white and see how if actually tastes and if it measures up or tastes like anything close to rose* 😋
Because when it comes to soft science, practice is worth as much as theory and principle 😉

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
*runs to the cupboard to blend red and white and see how if actually tastes and if it measures up or tastes like anything close to rose* 😋
Because when it comes to soft science, practice is worth as much as theory and principle 😉

But whom amongst us would want to be the mouse that had a human ear grafted onto its back?

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 09:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
But whom amongst us would want to be the mouse that had a human ear grafted onto its back?

Being humans, yours is a question for mice 😉

I have one: why put it in such radical terms? Accepting astrology and mostly astrologers can be severely unreliable and mixing drinkable substances is far from being as life-changing for a person as having an organ from a different species attached to their backs 😊 ( unless you go ape about the mixing of course 😝

Another question I find curious is why on earth did you strictly feel concerned by me mentioning all knowing ******** ?
Something I was taught when I was 9 comes to mind "I don't care, even should you be the only girl in the street and there's no doubt it's your attention they want, you're no hooker, ***** , sugar or honey, anyone shouts "hey honey..." at you, YOU DON'T TURN BACK ...unless of course you think of yourself as honey, sugar, hooker or ***** "

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
why on earth did you strictly feel concerned by me mentioning all knowing ******** ?

I didn't (and don't) but wondered why on earth you felt the need to mention it in your post.

It seemed to me to be an attempt by you to prevent others from challenging your comment - for fear of being considered an ********

And if it was why do you equate challenging your views with challenging/insulting your intellect?

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 11:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

It seemed to me to be an attempt by you to prevent others from challenging your comment - for fear of being considered an ********

This isn't what I wrote, at all. Please read again.

Also, while I appreciate you asking, I wish I didn't have to pry that question out of you and you clearly asked right off the bat without risking bigger confusion with offering your better analogy.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
This isn't what I wrote, at all. Please read again.

Also, while I appreciate you asking, I wish I didn't have to pry that question out of you and you clearly asked right off the bat without risking bigger confusion with offering your better analogy.


This is what you wrote :-

"Disclaimer: this is lindaland so some all knowing ******* may barge in insulting my intellect because I failed to render their obtuse and radical way of stating their truth that they think universal, that's cuntic behaviour, let's pay no mind to it, at least I tried and I'm honest and upftont about simply trying.
I may very well be wrong, that I'm on board with 😊 but I tried and hope it helps a bit.

If I read it a thousand times, the message is still "my intellect is now going to be insulted".

Moreover, there was no need for you to make the provocative statement at all - so what prompted you to do so? ... In effect, it was the equivalent of being in an empty room and opening a window to challenge passers by to "come and insult my intellect if you dare".

But ...now that you know what I think I heard, beth ... what exactly do you think you said? ... And why did you feel the need to say it?

[Btw ... I gave another (and flawed) analogy, not a better analogy.]


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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 12:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
This is what you wrote :-

[b]"Disclaimer: this is lindaland so some all knowing ******* may barge in insulting my intellect because I failed to render their obtuse and radical way of stating their truth that they think universal, that's cuntic behaviour, let's pay no mind to it, at least I tried and I'm honest and upftont about simply trying.
I may very well be wrong, that I'm on board with 😊 but I tried and hope it helps a bit.

If I read it a thousand times, the message is still "my intellect is now going to be insulted".

Moreover, there was no need for you to make the provocative statement at all - so what prompted you to do so? ... In effect, it was the equivalent of being in an empty room and opening a window to challenge passers by to "come and insult my intellect if you think your good enough".

But ...now that you know what I think I heard, beth ... what exactly do you think you said? ... And why did you feel the need to say it?

[/B]


Read again 😊
Why do you call it provocative?
Why do you consider "need" so much? it's an internet forum, nothing here is needed unless stated otherwise.
Why do you consider the post an empty room, deliberately deciding to obliterate 3/4 of it to focus on a single (misread too) line of a small 5 lines aside tucked between an actual attempt at a contribution to the topic?
Why do you insist on me explaining why I wrote something you have already judged? (provocative)
Why should I share how I feel with you?
You challenge me to tell you what I "think" I said compared to what you "read", this implies that my point, as the author is highly subjective, but you, as the reader, have the facts. It happens to not be the case here.
I am telling you, read again 😊
You don't need to quote me my own post that's on the same page of the same thread by the way, I did read myself again and saw what you missed before I suggested you read again.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
Read again 😊
Why do you call it provocative?
Why do you consider "need" so much? it's an internet forum, nothing here is needed unless stated otherwise.
Why do you consider the post an empty room, deliberately deciding to obliterate 3/4 of it to focus on a single (misread too) line of a small 5 lines aside tucked between an actual attempt at a contribution to the topic?
Why do you insist on me explaining why I wrote something you have already judged? (provocative)
Why should I share how I feel with you?
You challenge me to tell you what I "think" I said compared to what you "read", this implies that my point, as the author is highly subjective, but you, as the reader, have the facts. It happens to not be the case here.
I am telling you, read again 😊
You don't need to quote me my own post that's on the same page of the same thread by the way, I did read myself again and saw what you missed before I suggested you read again.


Stop yelling at me to re-read your post, beth - and take some time out to help me interpret it as you intended.

As I have stated already ... if I read your comment a thousand times, my interpretation of it will still be the same.

If I am wrong, please explain why.


quote:
I did read myself again and saw what you missed before I suggested you read again.

Then tell me what I have missed ... and rest assured that I shall not consider you doing so as insulting my intellect.


[Btw ... is this how you habitually respond/react when someone asks for clarification of a comment made by you?]


quote:
You challenge me to tell you what I "think" I said compared to what you "read"

I asked you to tell me what you think you said "now that you know what I think I heard". ... Perhaps you should read it again - to see what you missed.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 01:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moonbeth:
[b] Read again 😊
Why do you call it provocative?
Why do you consider "need" so much? it's an internet forum, nothing here is needed unless stated otherwise.
Why do you consider the post an empty room, deliberately deciding to obliterate 3/4 of it to focus on a single (misread too) line of a small 5 lines aside tucked between an actual attempt at a contribution to the topic?
Why do you insist on me explaining why I wrote something you have already judged? (provocative)
Why should I share how I feel with you?
You challenge me to tell you what I "think" I said compared to what you "read", this implies that my point, as the author is highly subjective, but you, as the reader, have the facts. It happens to not be the case here.
I am telling you, read again 😊
You don't need to quote me my own post that's on the same page of the same thread by the way, I did read myself again and saw what you missed before I suggested you read again.


Stop yelling at me to re-read your post, beth - and take some time out to help me interpret it as you intended.

As I have stated already ... if I read your comment a thousand times, my interpretation of it will still be the same.

If I am wrong, please explain why.


quote:
I did read myself again and saw what you missed before I suggested you read again.

Then tell me what I have missed ... and rest assured that I shall not consider you doing so as insulting my intellect.


[Btw ... is this how you habitually respond/react when someone asks for clarification of a comment made by you?][/B][/QUOTE]

Where am I yelling?
I am just repeating because I believe that if you do not accept to just read what is there without interpreting it, and therefore see where you got my intent twisted, nothing I'll add will help as you will receive it through the biased lense you have exposed so far.

I don't fear you feeling insulted if I explained. Insulting to me happens with the intention to belittle, harm, upset... and I have no such intention, especially since I don't consider your interpretation tragic, I'm just bothered by the result being such an inaccurate judgement of me or my post.

A) this did not start as a request for clarification, had it so, I would have probably reacted way differently.
B) I don't have pre-set of habitual responses except for ceasing to reply after insulting comments, other than that I usually react according to what I get, or at least try to.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
nothing I'll add will help as you will receive it through the biased lense you have exposed so far.

So ... I cannot be trusted to "understand" what you say?

Is that a common problem that you have experienced with others in the past?


quote:
I don't fear you feeling insulted if I explained. Insulting to me happens with the intention to belittle, harm, upset... and I have no such intention, especially since I don't consider your interpretation tragic, I'm just bothered by the result being such an inaccurate judgement of me or my post.

Nor do you seem to have any intention of helping me to judge posts more accurately. ... Or might it be that you are simply unable to present your comment in a way other than my interpretation of it? ... And, the more noise you make, the more others will perceive you as having a reason/"right" to be aggrieved?


quote:
this did not start as a request for clarification, had it so, I would have probably reacted way differently.

If it makes your ego feel better, !'m ok with you deluding yourself about that. ... However, in truth, you came looking for a fight; have insisted that I provide it for you and now find yourself with your back to the wall - with nowhere to go.


quote:
I don't have pre-set of habitual responses except for ceasing to reply after insulting comments, other than that I usually react according to what I get, or at least try to.

Everyone has a pre-set of habitual responses. ... But you are not yet able to recognise your own ... and are currently choosing to confront others because you are not yet "ready" to confront yourself.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 01:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:

So ... I cannot be trusted to "understand" what you say?

Is that a common problem that you have experienced with others in the past?


You are not trusted to accept because you are not accepting, nothing to do with understand.
Haha, wow, that's some serious character questioning doc.
Yes, of course, I've been misread, misunderstood, I have disagreed, even fought, argued with countless others in the past, as countless as those I've been understood by, have understood myself, read properly, agreed with, and had years long harmonious conversations, in life as well as on various plateform, phone or internet... why do you ask questions like that, as if you're trying to invalidate me at my core as a communicative/relating being?
In my humble opinion, neither of us is or has to be a bad guy here. I am starting to feel you disagree and are looking for a wrong Vs right resolution to this. I hope this isn't the case. We'd both be dissappointed.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 01:44 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[/b][/QUOTE]
Nor do you seem to have any intention of helping me to judge posts more accurately.

>> of course I'm not, I wish we interacted judgement free is my whole point.

... Or might it be that you are simply unable to present your comment in a way other than my interpretation of it?

>> now you're becoming crass, don't question my abilities just because I don't comply with your requests, I don't owe you any obedience or evidence.

... And, the more noise you make, the more others will perceive you as having a reason/"right" to be aggrieved?[/B][/QUOTE]

>> the only noise I make here is replying to you, I'm comfortable with that.
Besides, I don't fear angry mobs on the internet, as I've said, it's cuntic behaviour I'll pay no mind to.
You mentioning others that would automatically agree with you and come after me sounds like a threat.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
You are not trusted to accept because you are not accepting, nothing to do with understand.
Haha, wow, that's some serious character questioning doc.
Yes, of course, I've been misread, misunderstood, I have disagreed, even fought, argued with countless others in the past, as countless as those I've been understood by, have understood myself, read properly, agreed with, and had years long harmonious conversations, in life as well as on various plateform, phone or internet... why do you ask questions like that, as if you're trying to invalidate me at my core as a communicative/relating being?
In my humble opinion, neither of us is or has to be a bad guy here. I am starting to feel you disagree and are looking for a wrong Vs right resolution to this. I hope this isn't the case. We'd both be dissappointed.


I am looking only for you to be honest with yourself, beth.

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Graham
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posted March 07, 2020 01:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
[/b]

Nor do you seem to have any intention of helping me to judge posts more accurately.

>> of course I'm not, I wish we interacted judgement free is my whole point.

... Or might it be that you are simply unable to present your comment in a way other than my interpretation of it?

>> now you're becoming crass, don't question my abilities just because I don't comply with your requests, I don't owe you any obedience or evidence.

... And, the more noise you make, the more others will perceive you as having a reason/"right" to be aggrieved?[/QUOTE]

>> the only noise I make here is replying to you, I'm comfortable with that.
Besides, I don't fear angry mobs on the internet, as I've said, it's cuntic behaviour I'll pay no mind to.
You mentioning others that would automatically agree with you and come after me sounds like a threat.

[/B][/QUOTE]

You really do need to read back the paranoid rubbish you are writing here, beth.

Goodnight.

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Moonbeth
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posted March 07, 2020 02:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Graham:
You really do need to read back the paranoid rubbish you are writing here, beth.

Goodnight.


You need to stop fooling yourself thinking you know if others are honest with themselves or not, this is impossibly arrogant.
You also need to brush up on your rhetoric, that systematic vocative case use to hammer in points is an old politican's trick.
As for paranoia, you're the one who tried to make me fear having this conversation with you was going to alter my relationships with everyone else, I never thought it or you were that important.

Sleep well.

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Graham
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posted March 08, 2020 01:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
You need to stop fooling yourself thinking you know if others are honest with themselves or not, this is impossibly arrogant.
You also need to brush up on your rhetoric, that systematic vocative case use to hammer in points is an old politican's trick.
As for paranoia, you're the one who tried to make me fear having this conversation with you was going to alter my relationships with everyone else, I never thought it or you were that important.

Sleep well.



I did indeed sleep well, beth. ... So, thank you for that.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

However, since students of astrology should never walk away from a difficult interaction without looking at the synastry involved, I have now briefly compared your natal chart (at http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/025569.html ) with mine.

And ... although you have an exact Saturn-Jupiter natal aspect that is at the root our confrontation on this thread ... our synastry does indeed also contain the following difficult aspects (with orbs of 1deg30mins or less) :-

My Pluto square your Mars (which is conjunct my Mercury) : My Saturn conjunct your Sun : My Sun opposite your Chiron : My Mars conjunct your Neptune : My Jupiter square your Mercury : My NN opposite your Jupiter.

So ... if you are happy that your Mars, Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune are well-behaved personality factors in your natal chart ... then I am happy with you putting this particular confrontation 100% down to me.* ... However, since your stands-with-fists-raised communication style reminds me of my younger self*, I remain convinced that you would benefit from focusing on your own behaviour here (rather than mine). And particularly so in view of the squares being made currently to your natal chart by transit Mercury, Jupiter and Pluto ... which are very-visible planets in my natal chart/personality (often resulting in me being the "embodiment" of their transits through the charts of others).

And, bear in mind that learning (or not learning) from these transits now will almost certainly impact upon how you "get on with others around you" in the future.

[ * "Through Mars, Pluto is confronted with a concrete image of his own aggression and through Mars he can come to acknowledge, discharge and transmute that aggression into light." ... From Relationships, Astrology and Karma - by Pauline Stone.]

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Nadja
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posted March 08, 2020 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you Graham might have to take responsibility for this confrontation too... You pretty much kicked the hornet's nest.

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Nadja
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posted March 08, 2020 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nadja     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for midpoints, I agree with Graham that it would be easier to explain when knowing where the difficulty is. But I do like Moonbeth's mountain metaphor.

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Graham
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posted March 08, 2020 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nadja:
I think you Graham might have to take responsibility for this confrontation too... You pretty much kicked the hornet's nest.

Yes, Nadja. ... I did indeed do that; do accept responsibility for doing so and will learn from it.

However, as a 71 year old pensioner, my income no longer depends upon being employed. ... Hence, my need to get along with others is desirable rather than essential. ... But, Moonbeth is much younger than I - so her need to learn from these current transits may be essential rather than desirable.

Fortunately though, my astrological obligation to her in these current transits does not extend beyond delivering the Pluto message of "stop ranting, and start listening". ... And I have now done that here on this thread.


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Moonbeth
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posted March 08, 2020 09:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nadja:
As for midpoints, I agree with Graham that it would be easier to explain when knowing where the difficulty is. But I do like Moonbeth's mountain metaphor.

Thanks, I like my innocent metaphors 😛, they feel fuzzy 😊

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