posted September 10, 2014 11:04 AM            

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I am watching this show called Witches of East End and one of the main characters has a soulmate who they meet and fall in love in every life but the story always ends in tragedy. The writer actually refers to this soulmate pair as star crossed lovers.

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What are some astrological indicators that can generate such fate?

posted September 10, 2014 11:39 AM            

It's a matter of which point you're looking at as the end.
If we're looking at Romeo and Juliet to figure out the outline for what we should be looking at astrology-wise, here's a few things we can draw out of this story. They are both young, inexperienced and immensely pressured by their respective families to conform to a lifestyle and choices they do not feel comfortable in. In a sense, they seek escape in one another, both as a comfort and shelter from the rules and as a way to defy those rules. So primary planetary markers would be Saturn, Neptune and Uranus. Those three would be making challenging aspects to Moon, Venus and Mars in various configurations and combinations.

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a T-square in the composite involving Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Some H12 action, also, and that Uranus possibly on an angle for the us-against-the-world feeling that is evoked. In their synastry, I would guess a Neptune-Mercury contact, maybe opposition, for both the poetry, and the misunderstandings.

I want to be a little cynical here and say that the tragedy inherent in it was mostly a matter of their own stupidity that could have been avoided. So a very challenged and clumsy Sun in the composite, maybe a Uranus square. The Moon would have to be strong and have good aspects for things to be that strongly felt that quickly. I'd say Moon conjunctions in the synastry, and some trines. Lots of asteroid contacts, as well.

posted September 10, 2014 03:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
Well, you know what they say, given a long enough timeline, every story ends as a tragedy.

It's a matter of which point you're looking at as the end.
If we're looking at Romeo and Juliet to figure out the outline for what we should be looking at astrology-wise, here's a few things we can draw out of this story. They are both young, inexperienced and immensely pressured by their respective families to conform to a lifestyle and choices they do not feel comfortable in. In a sense, they seek escape in one another, both as a comfort and shelter from the rules and as a way to defy those rules. So primary planetary markers would be Saturn, Neptune and Uranus. Those three would be making challenging aspects to Moon, Venus and Mars in various configurations and combinations.

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a T-square in the composite involving Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Some H12 action, also, and that Uranus possibly on an angle for the us-against-the-world feeling that is evoked. In their synastry, I would guess a Neptune-Mercury contact, maybe opposition, for both the poetry, and the misunderstandings.

I want to be a little cynical here and say that the tragedy inherent in it was mostly a matter of their own stupidity that could have been avoided. So a very challenged and clumsy Sun in the composite, maybe a Uranus square. The Moon would have to be strong and have good aspects for things to be that strongly felt that quickly. I'd say Moon conjunctions in the synastry, and some trines. Lots of asteroid contacts, as well.

To sum it all up; aspected and prominent Moon, Venus-Mars links on both sides, a highly challenging Saturn and Uranus causing havoc all over. Just a theoretical guess.

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I would switch Saturn with Pluto since it rules death, obsession and adds a lot of intensity. Saturn can glue two people and is pretty sober; I think saturn aspects makes people commit to each other.

I loved your Clumsy Sun comment LOL and great analysis overall, enjoyed reading it.

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
I'll pipe in a prominent and challenged CHIRON. Nodal and/or VERTEX contacts for that "fated" feeling.

For literal star contacts, perhaps ALGOL or VINDEMIATRIX on a sensitive point.

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posted September 10, 2014 05:46 PM            

It may not need to be a yod, but it would make for powerful focus if CHIRON is the apex, including SATURN and a personal planet as the other two points.

posted September 10, 2014 06:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Uhm, stop describing my composite.

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posted September 10, 2014 06:33 PM            

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
CHIRON in 7H or 5H quincunx anything important creates a powerful thorn that must constantly be worked around, adjusted to, recognized, or negotiated with. Desire and longing is also associated with quincunx aspects, so with CHIRON, it adds a painful flavor.

It may not need to be a yod, but it would make for powerful focus if CHIRON is the apex, including SATURN and a personal planet as the other two points.

House 5 or 7 placement is most important though, I think.

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posted September 10, 2014 08:58 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Uhm, stop describing my composite.

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
Hey now, I've got 5H CHIRON on one hand, and CHIRON-apex yod on the other. :P

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Chiron apex Yod here too in the 7th with my ex , with Apophis/Sun/Pluto/Mars/Valentine in one leg in the 12th and neptune and BML in the other in the second and Uranus opposing the chiron apex which forms a tsquare with regulus/atropos. I think we are a good example of star-crossed.

I do think the houses matter in reference to chiron and what we are talking about.

I have one with my husband BUT our chiron is at the apex conjunct the IC and there are no personal planets involved just neptune and pluto as legs. Uranus also opposes the apex but it forms a tsquare with venus. Our chiron sesquisquares mercury/mars/apophis. We are definitely not star-crossed; we have other kinds of challenges.

posted September 10, 2014 09:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blind writer:
[b]CHIRON in 7H or 5H quincunx anything important creates a powerful thorn that must constantly be worked around, adjusted to, recognized, or negotiated with. Desire and longing is also associated with quincunx aspects, so with CHIRON, it adds a painful flavor.

It may not need to be a yod, but it would make for powerful focus if CHIRON is the apex, including SATURN and a personal planet as the other two points.

House 5 or 7 placement is most important though, I think.

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posted September 11, 2014 06:45 AM              

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
[QUOTE]
Ah, I see. Yes, that makes sense. From my experience, Chiron seems to be a much stronger presence in romantic charts than you'll hear discussed in any synastry literature I've gone through. I think a focused study on its effect in love relationships is overdue.

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posted September 11, 2014 09:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
CHIRON in 7H or 5H quincunx anything important creates a powerful thorn that must constantly be worked around, adjusted to, recognized, or negotiated with. Desire and longing is also associated with quincunx aspects, so with CHIRON, it adds a painful flavor.

It may not need to be a yod, but it would make for powerful focus if CHIRON is the apex, including SATURN and a personal planet as the other two points.

House 5 or 7 placement is most important though, I think.

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Blind Writer can you describe your Yod? Where is chiron falling in your comp and what is it inconjuncting?

Also, Why Saturn for star crossed lovers?

posted September 11, 2014 11:37 AM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Blind Writer can you describe your Yod? Where is chiron falling in your comp and what is it inconjuncting?

Also, Why Saturn for star crossed lovers?

I do have a Yod with someone with saturn/valentine at the apex inconjuncting mars on one side and venus in the other and yes definitely star crossed; we met at the worst possible time.

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SATURN, among other things, can represent oppression, or "the establishment". SATURN can be the authority figure invoking the law to keep people apart. SATURN can also represent that which is denied or held back. He is the grand teacher, but he often teaches via spartan measures and abstinence, including death in the extreme.

As for me, I have the yod in composite 3H, with SATURN/PLUTO on one side in 8H, and NEPTUNE on the other in 11H. CHIRON sits on ALGOL, and directly opposes VALENTINE-MOON-VENUS-SUN-JUPITER-MERCURY in the 9H. The problem here is proximity (3H = nearness). We live on opposite sides of the planet.

posted September 11, 2014 11:46 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by libran_dream:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blind writer:
[b]CHIRON in 7H or 5H quincunx anything important creates a powerful thorn that must constantly be worked around, adjusted to, recognized, or negotiated with. Desire and longing is also associated with quincunx aspects, so with CHIRON, it adds a painful flavor.

It may not need to be a yod, but it would make for powerful focus if CHIRON is the apex, including SATURN and a personal planet as the other two points.

House 5 or 7 placement is most important though, I think.

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I agree.

posted September 11, 2014 02:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
SATURN, among other things, can represent oppression, or "the establishment". SATURN can be the authority figure invoking the law to keep people apart. SATURN can also represent that which is denied or held back. He is the grand teacher, but he often teaches via spartan measures and abstinence, including death in the extreme.

As for me, I have the yod in composite 3H, with SATURN/PLUTO on one side in 8H, and NEPTUNE on the other in 11H. CHIRON sits on ALGOL, and directly opposes VALENTINE-MOON-VENUS-SUN-JUPITER-MERCURY in the 9H. The problem here is proximity (3H = nearness). We live on opposite sides of the planet.

My other composite CHIRON is in the 5H, opp MARS in the 11H. It forms a mystic rectangle, actually, including MOON, which has a dual position in the 1H and 7H. Our yod is in synastry, involving my 8H SATURN-JUPITER which is conj KARMA-AMOR, quincunx VENUS-PSYCHE/my AVX on one side, and 7H CHIRON on the other. My 3H overlays 7H, so proximity is an issue again. For a painful time period, it was even thought I was dead for a while when some malicious communique was sent to that effect (we weren't in touch at the time). We got in touch again a few years later, but those scars are still there and the distance is still a huge obstacle.

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Thanks for replying about Saturn, I see what you mean. Well our Saturn/Valentine apex is in the 11th and basically we met about 3 months before my wedding day so my commitment to my husband keeps us in the friend zone even though this apex inconjuncts venus on one side and mars in the other.

Interesting, both of my chiron apex Yods are also on Algol near I should say by 2 orbs with my cross star ex and by one orb with my husband. Wow with the 3H and 9H so prominent involving the apex and reaction point I can see why distance is a Big problem; that is a lot of planets in the 9th opposing chiron and the 9th rules countries abroad hence why you two are in opposites sides of the world. Very nice composite though.

I think is safe to say that Yods are more prone for star cross lovers scenarios as after all Yods are karmic and represent great challenges and adjustments that need to be made or overcome. When you add chiron to the Yod it stings like you put it nicely, it just fuels the star-crossed lovers theme even more.

I really really hope you manage to find a away to be with one of your big loves!

Thanks for all your very valuable input so far to this thread! Good stuff.

posted September 11, 2014 02:34 PM            

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Originally posted by Blind writer:
Hey now, I've got 5H CHIRON on one hand, and CHIRON-apex yod on the other. :P

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On ALGOL? ... No?

I win. (Dunno what I 'win', however.)

Actually, hang on. YOU'VE got ALGOL-CHIRON, too? Is it with K? Or J? J would make sense, honestly, given the '80/'84 thing.

posted September 11, 2014 05:18 PM            

EURYDIKE 26 33
JUNO 26 20

Our ORPHEUS conjuncts our AC and Sun by less than 3 orbs.

posted September 11, 2014 07:00 PM            

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Originally posted by hypatia238:

EURYDIKE conjuncts our Juno by seconds:

EURYDIKE 26 33
JUNO 26 20

Our ORPHEUS conjuncts our AC and Sun by less than 3 orbs.

Why is EURYDIKE and ORPHEUS significant?

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For star-crossed? They're a classic tale of Eros and Psyche gone terribly wrong.

In a nutshell, E and O get hitched. She's bitten by a snake and dies. He's beside himself. After much mourning and sorrowful singing, his work gets the attention of Hades and Persephone who cut a deal. You can have Eury back, but you CANNOT under ANY circumstance look back as you ascend from the Underworld. All seems well, but, alas, Orpheus looks back at Eurydices to be certain she IS following behind. She was -- and now she's not.

I believe it goes as they're then only reunited in death. I can imagine Eury's got some mixed emotion about that reunion, too.

Astrologically, it seems that she represents our being uncomfortably dependent upon another, and circumstances surrounding her being (or feeling) like a 'matter of life and death'. ORPHEUS, on the other hand, has to do with contact with death, loss, grieving, and sorrowful or mournful works of art, too. Especially music, as it's what moved H and P to offer the deal to return Eurydices to her grieving widower anyhow.

posted September 11, 2014 07:46 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
For star-crossed? They're a classic tale of Eros and Psyche gone terribly wrong.

In a nutshell, E and O get hitched. She's bitten by a snake and dies. He's beside himself. After much mourning and sorrowful singing, his work gets the attention of Hades and Persephone who cut a deal. You can have Eury back, but you CANNOT under ANY circumstance look back as you ascend from the Underworld. All seems well, but, alas, Orpheus looks back at Eurydices to be certain she IS following behind. She was -- and now she's not.

I believe it goes as they're then only reunited in death. I can imagine Eury's got some mixed emotion about that reunion, too.

Astrologically, it seems that she represents our being uncomfortably dependent upon another, and circumstances surrounding her being (or feeling) like a 'matter of life and death'. ORPHEUS, on the other hand, has to do with contact with death, loss, grieving, and sorrowful or mournful works of art, too. Especially music, as it's what moved H and P to offer the deal to return Eurydices to her grieving widower anyhow.

Definitely a star-crossed couple.

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LOL "They're a classic tale of Eros and Psyche gone terribly wrong" that describes us so well.

Guess what?! Guess what?! LOL

His Orpheus conjuncts by less than an orb my Eurydike.

Synastry:

I have Eurydike at 25 Lib 06'53"
He has Orpheus at 26 Lib 57'50"

In Comp:

Eurydike/Juno squares Orpheus/Sun

His Natal:

Eurydike opposes Orpheus

Comp to Natals:

My Orpheus conjuncts C-Orpheus and our AC.
My Eurydike squares C-Eurydike

His Orpheus squares exact C-Eurydike
His Eurydike opposes C-Orpheus
His Eurydike squares Eurydike

Definitely Eros and Psyche gone terribly wrong and notice no trines or sextiles mostly hard aspects and in synastry a conjunction.

Great contribution to this thread, Thanks a lot.

posted September 11, 2014 07:53 PM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Weird you guys have cORPHEUS-SUN, too. I have that with my Guardian.

cEURYDIKE on cJUNO is curious. Who's it hitting natally? If anyone? That might mean there's a sense of uncomfortable dependence in the marriage dynamics. Something of which JUNO is none too fond.

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This chart is with my ex. We were together for almost a year and talked about marriage but things went terribly wrong. We never moved in. We we extremely in love but I dont know if dependence is how I would describe us tbh; more like smitten, obsessed, and mad over hills in love. I remember feeling like I would have died for him for quite some time and it took me forever to get over him. I no longer feel like I would die for him but I cant ever truly get over him completely so I will always love him as he is part of a history for better or for worse that I can't erase and can't be undone.