posted September 10, 2014 07:57 PM            

Using the charts as examples, but in general is as welcome I suppose. I think Orpheus got to Persephone first and she persuaded her husband into leniency, so it's as if Pluto holds Eurydike in this case as well.

This with my Sun conjunct the Eury-Pluto and my Orpheus-Persephone 1-2 trine their Sun to light up the underworld. My Karma square my Nodes is also hit by his Eurydike-Pluto AND his Karma conjuncts my Eurydike. I assume it's greatly karmic and perhaps a vast loss at some stage, but I have no specific knowledge what things are beyond the charts.

I don't know his time of birth so Moon may be a bit off, but remains in Gemini (about 27-28 deg latest, my AVX at 19 Gem). He's never been a marrying sort (with slightly martial interests in other vibes) so a Sag-ASC on top of Aqua Sun-Gem Moon might work with that though. IF the chart held, we'd have DC conj Orpheus and Eurydike conj ASC. My chart first.

His Persephone 14.12 Aqua, drac 27.46 Tau
Proserpina 20.06 R Can, drac 3.41 R Sco

My Persephone 3.38 Libra
Proserpina 17.58 R Aqua

His draconic (Eurydike-)Pluto 11.32 R Sag
My draconic ASC 10 Sag
My draconic Orpheus-Persephone 6-7 Aqua on my DC as said

Juno 2 opp Sun, Sun trine Juno.
Both have Venus square Mars squaring the other's counterparts. My Venus exactly square his Mars.

I'm a Fulvia-NN, he's a Marc-NN 1-2 conjunct my Valentine. Fulvia was Marc Antony's third wife, before Kleopatra. My Marc trines his Kleopatra by 2, draconic Marc trine his Fulvia.

Otherwise he has Nofretete-DNA opposite the Eurydike-Pluto so it's likewise square my Nodes. My Nefertiti-Mercury and Amor-Osiris square his Nodes, and I have Akhenaten conjunct my ASC. My 5 Sco Tuthmosis-DNA is conjunct his Akhenaten, 2 opposite his Hatshepsut, and his Tuthmosis 4-3 opp my Hatshepsut-NN. Amenhotep antiscia his Nofretete, Echnaton trine his Nofretete.

I'm a Tutenchamun-Sun, he has Isis-Tutenchamun-Orpheus on my DC and has done things related to Egypt, so Egypt matters with both people on one level or another. Whether it ties to the Eurydike-Orpheus question I don't know.

posted September 10, 2014 08:34 PM            

Oh, and if you want to know how Venus square Mars and the rest work, the effect is mostly: "I don't know why I should find you sexy, but good gods you actually are supremely manly and sexy and hooh". Thankfully or regrettably we're not in the same physical location so a moot point, but still. I guess some of it is also the Sun conjunct Pluto though.

posted September 11, 2014 01:34 AM            

For example, I've known I have my EURYDIKE conjunct SEDNA, 1° (there's a combo you don't want to have) which is right on his NNODE.

Yep. Him. That one.

Did I mention he also has a 1° EURYDIKE conjunct SEDNA?

Yep.

My ORPHEUS, mind, is 2° conjunct MADHATTER and AETERNITAS. His ORPHEUS squares my EURYDIKE exactly, and is a skipped step of his. His SPHINX is there, too, exactly. His NNODE, my EURYDIKE-SEDNA.

This never clicked until tonight: the way we've been on that street in the rainy dark engaged in a stand-off for however long the karma is active. Asking that damned riddle, demanding my trust, while I expect him to sacrifice his freedom in return.

Ugly.

It wasn't until I saw the way it went in one respect that I got it: my running away, which kills us both. Starting with him killing me in a rage over my being unable to trust him -- and running, dooming us both -- and then finishing the job with taking out himself.

Lovely.

Eurydices can't trust men because she's been betrayed by too damned many of them. And you give her a riddle, TOO? It doesn't even matter what Orpheus is or isn't doing; she gets sucked back into Hell, period.

ADMETOS is tightly conjunct the dual EURYDIKE-SEDNA, so that explains why it's happening everywhere.

Did I mention my DIANA is conjunct ADMETOS by 1°? That's square his ORPHEUS and conjunct his SPHINX.

Running, running, running.

Orpheus can keep his bloody riddle to himself. Diana's tired of being hunted.

Except, of course, running isn't the solution, either. Because ADMETOS is going to replay that broken record on every timeline in some fashion. So I'm going to have to be running from it EVERYWHERE.

Yeah, in that direction lies a Hatter, and he's very mad, indeed.

To me, EURYDIKE is where we placed our trust in someone and their inability to trust us led to our mutual downfall and loss. And ORPHEUS is the sorrowful one because he blew his second chance. EURYDIKE, it's been said, is also where we make a sacrifice, often for love, and are considering the cost. These things also feel like, if they aren't actually, a matter of life and death.

Wheeeew, brother. If THAT isn't on-the-head.

Yeah, that's pretty clear. What's the cost (EURYDIKE) of giving up the chase (DIANA) and solving the riddle (SPHINX) which could still very well kill you (ORPHEUS). Answer: betrayal (SEDNA).

Seems that EURYDIKE is where we're uncomfortably dependent upon someone or something else. In my case, SEDNA (betrayal) ain't gonna make you too happy about that. Or too trusting.

In any case, those two will tell the story of the tragic cutting-room-floor Director's Cut of Eros and Psyche. Y'know. Where Psyche doesn't trust Eros and he gets enraged and solves everything by a murder-suicide because she made him go against his principles -- and she STILL didn't trust him enough to give him the gun.

(It's a very, very rare version.)

That's what got me thinking of EURYDIKE and ORPHEUS, actually. The fact he does the Eros vanishing act upon revealing to Psyche he DID love her, the damned fool, and she's beside herself with grief and NOW desperately seeking a second chance.

And, as are all things, evidently, with my karma, murders her in a blind rage over the betrayal, only to later ORPHEUS it. 'Oops, my bad. Hey, HADES! How about a do-over?'

He only gives those out VERY sparingly. In this case, likely only because of PERSEPHONE making an exact sextile.

I guess the SISYPHUS and AETERNITAS is the arse-hole tax? 'Sure ... you can have unlimited transdimensional do-overs! FOREVER!'

... Hah? ... Ha-ha ... ha?

posted September 11, 2014 01:51 AM            

My Eurydike-Semper is met with his 7.54 Aries Semper (sextile Orpheus), opposing my Pluto.
My draconic Eurydike-Semper are at 7.57-8.07 Aries
(so yes, my dEurydike is opposite my Pluto as well as me having IC-Orpheus-Persephone)

In case you never ran into the "Semper fidelis" Marine corps motto or Latin, consider semper "always" in any case.

3361 Orpheus, 75 Eurydike, 6353 Semper

Also realized that if the time holds, my Proserpina trines his Moon where his Pluto is conjunct my Sun. Proserpina and Pluto are in square and sextile contact to the other's NN. Chiron trine Pluto both ways as well.

Synastry wheel with 26% orb factor, aspect lines to all to see what remains.

And really, nobody wants to talk about loves lost, the underworld, and how the archetypes or functions may work in synastry?

posted September 11, 2014 02:30 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Sometimes the answer isn't immediately apparent.

For example, I've known I have my EURYDIKE conjunct SEDNA, 1° (there's a combo you don't want to have) which is right on his NNODE.

Did I mention he also has a 1° EURYDIKE conjunct SEDNA?

My ORPHEUS, mind, is 2° conjunct MADHATTER and AETERNITAS. His ORPHEUS squares my EURYDIKE exactly, and is a skipped step of his. His NNODE, my EURYDIKE-SEDNA.

Eurydices can't trust men because she's been betrayed by too damned many of them.

To me, EURYDIKE is where we placed our trust in someone and their inability to trust us led to our mutual downfall and loss. And ORPHEUS is the sorrowful one because he blew his second chance. EURYDIKE, it's been said, is also where we make a sacrifice, often for love, and are considering the cost. These things also feel like, if they aren't actually, a matter of life and death.

Seems that EURYDIKE is where we're uncomfortably dependent upon someone or something else. In my case, SEDNA (betrayal) ain't gonna make you too happy about that. Or too trusting.

In any case, those two will tell the story of the tragic cutting-room-floor Director's Cut of Eros and Psyche.

That's what got me thinking of EURYDIKE and ORPHEUS, actually. The fact he does the Eros vanishing act upon revealing to Psyche he DID love her, the damned fool, and she's beside herself with grief and NOW desperately seeking a second chance.

---

Added the bit about Eurydike conjunct Meta and Semper at my end while you posted, Chiron also trining Pluto both ways. Semper and Karma tie into this synastry both ways, so then it's a question of "... What, we're doing this forever or something?"

My condolences or sympathies on Sedna. Won't imagine the ow or pain. I don't recall anything about Eurydice not trusting men otherwise though, so maybe that's more so in your picture mostly.

I checked the cause of Eurydike's death, Aristaeus. The running away from and snakebite one (what not to trust?).

His is 11.13 Aquarius conjunct my draconic Pluto.
My Aristaeus 21.22 Scorpio conjunct his 21.59 Flood
Antiscion Aristaeus 8.43-ish Aqua with his Orpheus/Aristaeus
My Flood is 3.30 Sag conjunct Eurydike

Kicker? My drac Aristaeus 25 Pisces sextile his drac Aristaeus 25 Taurus on my SN. Something went/goes on somewhere. Both had the same Aristaeus leading to the loss? No idea.

---

I also think I may have one of the handles to my Tisiphone-Karma square Nodes and conjunct Sun with the person, since they may have Tisiphone conjunct Moon on their SN. Alekto trine SN, where mine is on my SN. Megaira 10.02 Pisces trine my 9 Can Megaira.

Trouble is of course that I don't know what it actually means to relations, currently or at any other time. All in all there are similarities in themes or patterns in the charts on many levels, but the Orpheus-Eurydike one seems the prevalent to me just now.

If Eurydike is placing trust and being let down, mutual conjunction to Karma suggests the Karmas failed Eurydike both ways? Seems logical enough with the theme working so strongly, but I don't know what in this case would be sacrificed for love (or something) with the other. Freedom? Not sure yet, but I guess I'll learn if necessary. He's very Aquarian and I've walked alone for the most part, so ties come up as a first thought.

Eurydike conjunct Pluto would transform the experience, but in what direction? The Suns conjunct and sextile Eurydike highlight the issue though, but oh boy the level of leaps of faith or trust and sticking with it I can only imagine coming with all that for now.

posted September 11, 2014 02:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
And really, [b]nobody wants to talk about loves lost, the underworld, and how the archetypes or functions may work in synastry?

Are two people likely to feel as if they'll lose the other or end up losing the other whatever the case, or what's what? Is it happiness for a while, until something separates them, and then lack of trust and faith ends up driving a wedge between the two for good? Is it repairing previous dynamics like that when tied to Karma and Semper both ways, or what? I don't know what's what, why else post here? [/B]

---

posted September 11, 2014 02:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Added the bit about Eurydike conjunct Meta and Semper at my end while you posted, Chiron also trining Pluto both ways. Semper and Karma tie into this synastry both ways, so then it's a question of "... What, we're doing this forever or something?"

My condolences or sympathies on Sedna. Won't imagine the ow or pain. I don't recall anything about Eurydice not trusting men otherwise though, so maybe that's more so in your picture mostly.

I checked the cause of Eurydike's death, Aristaeus. The running away from and snakebite one (what not to trust?).

His is 11.13 Aquarius conjunct my draconic Pluto.
My Aristaeus 21.22 Scorpio conjunct his 21.59 Flood
Antiscion Aristaeus 8.43-ish Aqua with his Orpheus/Aristaeus
My Flood is 3.30 Sag conjunct Eurydike

Kicker? My drac Aristaeus 25 Pisces conjunct his drac Aristaeus 25 Pisces. Something went/goes on somewhere. Both had the same Aristaeus leading to the loss? No idea.

---

I also think I may have one of the handles to my Tisiphone-Karma square Nodes and conjunct Sun with the person, since they may have Tisiphone conjunct Moon on their SN. Alekto trine SN, where mine is on my SN. Megaira 10.02 Pisces trine my 9 Can Megaira.

Trouble is of course that I don't know what it actually means to relations, currently or at any other time. All in all there are similarities in themes or patterns in the charts on many levels, but the Orpheus-Eurydike one seems the prevalent to me just now.

If Eurydike is placing trust and being let down, mutual conjunction to Karma suggests the Karmas failed Eurydike both ways? Seems logical enough with the theme working so strongly, but I don't know what in this case would be sacrificed for love (or something) with the other. Freedom? Not sure yet, but I guess I'll learn if necessary. He's very Aquarian and I've walked alone for the most part, so ties come up as a first thought.

In this case synastry has Valentine conjunct Eros and Psyche 2 trine Valentine, so perhaps there's some help for Orpheus and Eurydike in such, if ever needed.

---

Ohhh, thanks for that. I'll definitely look into ARISTAEUS. And, no, I was being cheeky in my 'variations on a theme'. EURYDIKE-SEDNA seems very clearly to be about being dependent upon men who are destined to betray you. Great.

I'd check SISYPHUS for the 'and again on the merry-go-round' syndrome, rather than SEMPER. That seems more like the very opposite of betrayal, but extreme loyalty. I'd check ORCUS (90482) -- for oaths and sacred promises -- too. FIDES (37) as well.

Also, where's CUPIDO? (763) I've found it to be immensely helpful when looking at relationships that cross timelines, as it's a rather 'transdimensional' love point.

Naturally, mine's exactly opposite the EURYDIKE-SEDNA square his ORPHEUS. Oh, goodie -- a Fixed Cross. His CUPIDO-A's part of his TISIPHONE-HADES on my CHIRON which is part of the skipped step, too.

... And the two at last meet. Kinda. CUPIDO-A is more of a love relationship link. But since his CUPDIO (763) is conjunct my SUN, 2º, and trine his MADHATTER-VALENTINE-REQUIEM-ANTEROS by 1º and 0º, there's a resonance there.

For me, finding the theme has been the most advantageous. I knew I was onto something when I saw ORPHEUS conjunct MADHATTER, since it's a karmic thematic point.

Once you've determined what the overarching theme is, which connects all of the other points in some fashion across many systems (and timelines) you can better understand the meaning of specific aspects and configurations.

posted September 11, 2014 02:54 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I'm often surprised how little people want to talk about this. It must be more rare than you thought.

---

I know people bring up Orpheus in relation to muses and creation, but can only guess that a fear of not wanting to know if there is even a threat of loss or something perhaps comes up with things like these otherwise. I wasn't sure why Karmic_Moon was worried about offending me in another thread either when I myself had brought up less pleasant sides already, not painting the most sugary picture. If it's there and something highlights it, seems like it's going to come up one way or another then. Forewarned is forearmed?

posted September 11, 2014 03:21 AM            

His ALICE conjunct my ARISTAEUS (3º) -- and quindecile my ORPHEUS (0º).

My EURYDIKE-SEDNA conjunct DIANA (3º) -- and quindecile his ARISTAEUS, 0º.

His ARISTAEUS is also conjunct my MOON-URANUS, 0º. Along with my ACHILLES-TANTALUS, 1º. Oh, that's lovely. Jesus.

Interestingly enough, his ACHILLES is opposite his DIANA (0º) and SATURN (1º). That's significant, as there's a tight intersystem Cardinal Cross going on:

My drHADES conjunct his drLEWISCAROLL square my drARISTAEUS square his drHADES-TISIPHONE and nSATURN.

That makes my drARISTEAUS opposite his drHADES-TISIPHONE, opposite my nTISIPHONE-LACHESIS, opposite his drHADES conjunct my drLEWISCARROLL.

posted September 11, 2014 03:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Ohhh, thanks for that. I'll definitely look into ARISTAEUS. And, no, I was being cheeky in my 'variations on a theme'. EURYDIKE-SEDNA seems very clearly to be about being dependent upon men who are destined to betray you.

I'd check SISYPHUS for the 'and again on the merry-go-round' syndrome, rather than SEMPER. That seems more like the very opposite of betrayal, but extreme loyalty. I'd check ORCUS (90482) -- for oaths and sacred promises -- too. FIDES (37) as well.

Also, where's CUPIDO? (763) I've found it to be immensely helpful when looking at relationships that cross timelines, as it's a rather 'transdimensional' love point.

For me, finding the theme has been the most advantageous. I knew I was onto something when I saw ORPHEUS conjunct MADHATTER, since it's a karmic thematic point.

Once you've determined what the overarching theme is, which connects all of the other points in some fashion across many systems (and timelines) you can better understand the meaning of specific aspects and configurations.

---

Actually, you may have given me another thing to check, since I'm an Alice-ASC and my Madhatter is 5 Sag.

I know Sisyphus shouldn't be part of it based on mine at 23.54 Cancer, his at 10.01 Scorpio (Megaira contact though, so can't be sure). Sisyphus does contact his Aristaeus though?

My Paine at 15.41 Virgo with Nefertiti-Loki stuff made me think of the square to his Nodes, so not sure of his Paine at 26.26 Sag trine my Karma and the Leo stuff. I have Ariadne-Lust-Sedona at 26 Sag, Chiron and Karma trining them.

His drac Sisyphus is around 24 Aqua sext my Angel-Prey-French-Seaborg. His Angel 23.57 R Virgo conj my Akashi

I know Semper is more on the loyal side, but it's still forever one way or another - although put your way perhaps a help in trying to have faith and succeeding? I have Interkosmos at 6 Aries so need to check where his is.

Cupido at 2.15 Sag conj his Karma, near my Eurydike-Semper
Drac Cupido ~16 Pis trine my Alma-Lucifer-Tezcatlipoca

My Cupido-Hekate 20.52-55 Virgo conjunct his Pomona square my Vertex
Draconic Cupido-Hekate 24 Cap opp my Sisyphus
Antiscia Cupido-Hekate ~9.5 Aries => Semper
His Hekate 5.37 Pisces square the Sag stuff and my Eurydike

I already know his Orcus is 1-2 square my Orpheus-Persephone, from 1.56 R Cancer. My Nessus at 2 Cancer, my Orcus at 26.04 Cancer near my Saturn, trine my NN.

---

EDIT:
Wait up, wait up, my antiscion Orcus at 3.55 Gemini, or Orcus contrascia my Eurydike. So I have Orpheus-Persephone and Eurydike in contact with Orcus and Pluto through contrascia and a draconic opposition.

---

His Fides 10.08 Libra. Drac Fides ~24 Capricorn conj my drac Cupido-Hekate
Antiscia Fides 19.41 Pisces contrascia my Cupido

My Fides 1.49 R Pisces conj Moon, square his Cupido

My Fides is trine his Orcus, his drac Fides 2 opp my Orcus. My draconic Pluto conjunct my Solidarity is 1 trine his Orcus. I have Magnanimity conjunct Pluto and Philia on ASC so have to check how those figure in the synastry as well.

Also, can only say I love that I remember so much of my chart on the whole, so I can actually KNOW what is connected to what and where to even start looking for themes. I didn't consider Alice opposite Orpheus from my end though since it's not the only thing on my ASC, but that's the next stuff to check now with my Eurydike conjunct my Madhatter, too. Also perhaps because I have the twins Tweedledeedumtidum at 21-22 Virgo near my Cupido?

His antiscia Angel at 6.02 Aries with my Interkosmos.
His Interkosmos at 27.30 Aries with my Chiron, antiscion 2.29-ish Virgo

posted September 11, 2014 03:49 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Forewarned is forearmed?

Then again, I'm the worst example ... Loss all around. Must be more used to finding "uglier" things somewhere I guess. Thanks for the quick pitching in in any case.

---

It's kind of refreshing, actually. Typically, I've become the one to rant about her homicidal Groundhog Day, to the tune of 'The Time Warp'. But obviously off-key, since we're talking about death here.

I'm of the forewarned-forearmed school myself. But I've only recently come to see how my 15 years' worth of story can actually be used as a kind of bizarre oracle -- if I let it.

We cleared the 'Principles Dictate He Must Destroy Me' part of this song and dance in 2010. November. 22 or such, actually. I'll never forget that week.

And, rather than the Tisiphonic rage-switch getting flipped, (because I hadn't killed anyone) instead, MEGAIRA became the muse of the hour. Now it's all about 'righteous indignation' over the sanctity of marriage. Of course, the dark side of Meg is that she'll torment anyone who's scorned true love. Guess it must be; April, when I wrote a letter explaining how I would continue working with him but could not maintain any sort of personal association outside of it, he declared zugzwang and was in a 'moral checkmate'. He couldn't lose me, and if my terms were genuinely apologetic that I couldn't deal with our post-breakup relationship being what it was (a damned travesty we both hated) then he had no choice.

And he -- mostly -- changed.

It would honestly take until this past year to REALLY decide he wanted to do things differently.

November again. Crazy, huh?

And so I realised today, with the 'oh! It's imposition upon his freedom that breaks the terms of the arrangement which is what threatens her life!' that I got the EURYDIKE 'feels like life and death' thing -- because it IS.

Only not here, thank God.

I didn't think ARISTAEUS would be so heavily configured here. Now I need to figure THAT out.

See, if he doesn't kill her, then he goes against his principles. That ... that's essentially unheard of. (Which is an identical feature in him.)

But I never knew what transpired after that. Hell, I hadn't realised they even have a sexual relationship until this past year! (Or maybe 2012. But it was recent in project terms.) So I had no details. I kind of had a sense that they were both on borrowed time and trying not to think about the circumstances. Especially because she'd agreed to protecting his freedom (by not arresting him) which, in turn, he rewards by not killing her.

Nice, huh? I wish I felt like I actually wrote it. Oh, sure, it's my name on it. It all came to me. But then that's the key. It's all COME to me. I've never once sat down and just 'plotted it out'. I just KNOW. And I write THAT down.

So, his freedom = her life.
Step on through the looking-glass and, presto, change-o -- shift the observed timeline ...

His freedom = my ____.

What's the sacrifice? The cost? What is it that I'm risking here? My heart? By changing the deal, and literally risking the life of my other self -- what's going down HERE?

That's always the question. But ADMETOS, I've heard, can answer that.

But she's conjunct my nTISIPHONE-LACHESIS and his SUN, so I find myself back at the drawing board.

posted September 11, 2014 03:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Damned jackpot.

His ALICE conjunct my ARISTAEUS (3º) -- and quindecile my ORPHEUS (0º).

My EURYDIKE-SEDNA conjunct DIANA (3º) -- and quindecile his ARISTAEUS, 0º.

---

Happy to be of help.

His Madhatter 0.12 Sag conj his Saturn
Redqueen 2.04 Sag
Alice 28.43 Virgo
Whiteknight 28.15 Sag conj Juno
Whiterabbit 2.26 Pis
Tweedledee 22.30 R Gem
Tweedledum 27.47 Sco

Some contact, but probably not a Eurydike thing despite my Madhatter 5.33 Sag. Intuition was right to not look at Alice from the start then I guess.

---

COMPOSITE

Eurydike 15.51 Libra
Orpheus 4.39 Sag
Semper 6.05 Aqua
Persephone 8.50 Sag
NN 6.17 Sag
Venus 7.30 Gem
Mars 5.28 Pis
Pluto 17.47 Virgo
Uranus 14.43 R Virgo
Sun 15.44 Sco

Aristaeus 1.17 Cap, which would conjunct 3.06 Cap MC IF the chart was as here. ASC 6.23 Aries if it held.

Translates into cOrpheus conj MY Eurydike, cSemper conj HIS Orpheus on my DC.

cOrpheus under two conj cNN

posted September 11, 2014 04:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
Happy to be of help.

... Some contact, but probably not a Eurydike thing despite my Madhatter 5.33 Sag. Intuition was right to not look at Alice from the start then I guess.

---

---

posted September 11, 2014 05:16 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Yeah, it's a theme ONLY because of the context of the story itself. ...As such, they're both very specific and relevant. So they work in my case.

---

As for my case or stories, think I hit on something when remembered that I have Galene at 16.48 Gemini, on his SN. Also my Aigyptios 16.50, whatever it's worth. Indulge me, I have a weakness or fondness for this.

It's semi-relevant to *me* here because of the character of the Technomage Galen from Babylon 5 and more so the spin-off series Crusade. Galen loses the love of his life Isabelle and spends the rest of his years raging over her loss at the universe, if nothing else. He doesn't go to Hades but he looks up the mythical "Well of Forever" to take her ashes there because the place was her yearning while alive, the story having mythological proportions from certain angles.

Galene obviously isn't named for that Galen, but for stories of loss, it resonates. Even if I considered Galen a far too angry a "young" man from my angle in the end, and hoped he would have followed Isabelle's words about the universe not being cruel despite taking her away from him. That there was still love even so, her finding a way to get him the message of it even beyond death.

My Isabella 15.43 Virgo square Galene and a skipped step to his nodes again. My drac Isabella 19.34 Cap, dGalene 20.39 Lib

His Galene 21.00 R Can, drac ~5 Scorpio?
Isabella 5.17 Aries, drac 20 Cancer

My Magion (technomages? :P ) 3.35 Leo with Logos-Randi-Hubbard OPP his Sun
His Magion 4.55 Tau

quote:

---

Isabelle: "You must learn one day to forgive God for his decisions. I am sure it will greatly relieve him."

Galen: "Every technomage knows the fourteen words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she [Isabelle] only needed one.
Gideon: What word?
Galen: Hello."

Galen: "Then when the time comes I will help you keep your promise Matthew, as you have helped me keep mine. Perhaps then we can both forgive ourselves our common crime.
Gideon: What crime is that Galen?
Galen: Being alive."

Lt. John Matheson: "We received a message for you a little while ago.
Galen: That's not possible. How could anyone even know how to find me?
Lt. John Matheson: I don't know, but the message is incomplete. It just has your name ... and the word "love." The rest of it just got lost in static.
Galen: Could you tell where it came from?
Lt. John Matheson: No. The computer said it didn't come from any specific location.
Galen: Just out there, in general, somewhere?
Lt. John Matheson: Yes.
Galen: Not possible.
Lt. John Matheson: I know.
Isabelle: [in Galen's memory] If there is a purpose, if there is a design, if there is a way - after I'm gone I will call to you and say your name and send you a message. And you will know I was right."

---

Quotes (The Well of Forever, Path of Sorrows mostly relevant):

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0027076/quotes

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Crusade_%28TV_series%29

Galen's reactions to the loss move very much so in the Eurydike, Orpheus, Pluto regions I imagine. Deep, unending and volatile perhaps, but lasting and true at least. Also one big on keeping a vow or his word, if promised and given. Something I can relate to or appreciate.

http://youtu.be/b2E71P76lWk

Here's to treating fictional figures akin mythological ones. ;P

There's another reason why something with a loss of a loved one and the name Isabelle/Isabella resonates. I had a dream with a knightly figure losing his love, drowned in a river (Flood?), and having no reason to go on living after that. So he allowed himself to take the blame for something to save the life of his higher up queenly sort relative, sister or niece or cousin or something, for him to be blamed for treachery or treason and lose his life for it, but save or spare her and her children through that. Something such, but the impetus for it coming from the loss of the love of his life, my remembering the loss or grief in the dream, sorrow and how it felt with him in the river with her body in his arms.

It's one of the rarer "Feel so much the feelings last even when you're awake" dreams, hence having posted about it here as well.

posted September 11, 2014 11:17 AM            

Additional note about his myname-Pholus-Chiron/Isis/Orpheus thing on my DC. He also has Yeshuhua 6.13 Aquarius before Isis, so that's quite a bit of resurrectional energy with all that "Fetching your wife from the underworld + the woman who brings her husband back from the dead" energy already there. His Jessie is 6.01 Taurus square all that on top.

My Yeshuhua's 24 Libra opp his Magdalena, his Maria at 25.33 Sag
My Jessie 20 Sag, drac 24 Aries
My Mary 15.54 Sag conj his NN
My Maria-Qumran 22 Virgo trine his drac Yeshuhua from 20 Tau

COMPOSITE Yeshuhua 15.12 Sag exactly conjunct my Mary and one from his NN.

I guess we're doing a resurrection blues or something with all this then? The Davison has an 16.02-17.36 Virgo Isis-Osiris conjunction but that's about as close as things like that get. Opposite Chiron, square Psyche.

---

He has Iduna (of the golden apples of youth) at 3.45 Aquarius so he's an Iduna-Sun just like me. At least we're eternally young whether dead or fetching the other from lands thereof? His draconic Brage 28 Aqua sextiles his Juno, opposes my Iduna-Sun. My Brage quindeciles 5 Aquarius so with his Iduna-Sun.

There's also his Iduna conj myname1 in his chart, and his Brage 2 conj hisname in my chart for other markers. His myname2 19.39 Cap opposite my Brage.

(Same name, spelling closer but three letters before it, and both asteroids matter at my end.)

Comp Iduna-Sun 1 sextile 16.38 Virgo Brage between the Uranus-Pluto.

So, in synastry it's Iduna-Sun conj Eurydike-Pluto and Orpheus-Persephone trine Sun-Iduna. Mixing regions, but the charts have it.

---

Btw, as said, I have Pyramus conj Venus and his Pyramus is 4.01 Gem on my Mars, 2 opp his Mars. More lovers dying. Your call if you want to count his Siva on my SN losing his beloved Sati(e) near his SN. His at 14.37 R Gemini and mine at 17.44 Gemini. My draconic Siva opposite his Parvati, Kaalis antiscia, Kaali 2 trine Rudra, not much.

posted September 11, 2014 12:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Keela:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aubyanne:
[b] I'm often surprised how little people want to talk about this. It must be more rare than you thought.

---

I know people bring up Orpheus in relation to muses and creation, but can only guess that a fear of not wanting to know if there is even a threat of loss or something perhaps comes up with things like these otherwise. I wasn't sure why Karmic_Moon was worried about offending me in another thread either when I myself had brought up less pleasant sides already, not painting the most sugary picture. If it's there and something highlights it, seems like it's going to come up one way or another then. Forewarned is forearmed?

Then again, I'm the worst example. Orpheus-Persephone on IC. Requiem-Pyramus on Venus, Thisbe-Goethe on Mercury (or the other way around with P&T, I forget). Loss all around. Must be more used to finding "uglier" things somewhere I guess. Thanks for the quick pitching in in any case. [/B][/QUOTE]

Orpheus is both. You can`t split it apart. In fact I think I read in the myth that after experiencing that grave loss, his art/ music gained even more depth and haunting intensity, until he was being torn apart by the maenads I think. Not sure if I remember it right.

posted September 11, 2014 12:35 PM            

Orpheus' music had a haunting or sorrowful quality after Eurydike's death since he was mourning her, and the animals/everything/everyone around him (gathered by the music/singing) told him he should go ask Hades if he could have Eurydike back. He could apparently even soften stones, according to some.

Once "downstairs", he's the only one to have made the Erinyes weep or cry, same as softening Persephone and Hades with his music to get back his wife. In another bit even after he was out and the worst was done, the Maenads (Bacchai?) couldn't make spears or stones to reach him because his music repelled them, so they had to scream or make noise enough to drown out the music to get at him.

There's talk of his being portrayed as a bit of a coward for not killing himself to be with his wife in one text it seems, the gods not appreciating his "arrogance" in trying to win back his wife either. In any case and in all versions, after Orpheus dies he is reunited with his wife in the underworld and they are apparently happy again there, whatever it's worth.

Actually, if not taking Orpheus just for creativity in general, I have a disconnect since I'm not that particularly interested in music. At least not in creating any. I did like the myth as it was used in N. Gaiman's Sandman novels with Orpheus the son of the Dream of the Endless in it though, Lord Morpheus and Calliope. It played out the same but with Orpheus's head living on for centuries after the body was torn apart, having gotten the boon of Death of the Endless, his aunt, never taking him, to allow him to enter Hades' realm.

posted September 11, 2014 01:17 PM            

I was aware of bits of it, but was actually wondering if he was being reunited after death.

posted September 11, 2014 01:52 PM            

My ORPHEUS is on 10 Aqua in 2nd house, conjunct my Pallas and trine Pluto, but nothing too gobsmacking.

and only widely parallel AMOR (1°06)

my EURYDIKE is on 15 Scorpio in 11th, which is interesting as it falls onto my LANCELOT, MOIRA; SIVA; LONDON etc.
also makes a GT with Saturn on 16 Cancer and Juno on 16 Pisces.

But nothing too important in reltaion to Orpheus.
(sextile Persephone by 2 degrees though, and I just notice my PERSEPHONE is parallel Pluto 0°31)

as for mr sag
his ORPHEUS is on 8 Cap making a GT with his Chiron on 9 Taurus and Mars (11 Vg), Jupiter (10Vg), Amor (9 Vg) and sextile EROS on 8 Pisces.

(it is also conjunct his ARTHUR-MERLIN on 11 Cap)

his Orpheus is parallel his Mercury (0°34) - and he is a singer after all
and widely parlalel Venus (1.10)

and more tightly parallel his chartruler Neptune (0°16)

(actually it is funny how he has this close Mercury-Neptune-parallel natally and my Neptune conjuncts his Mercury exact in synastry)

it is also parallel PROSERPINA (0.20)

his EURYDIKE on 26.58 Sag in 10th house is conjunct his Sun by one minute!
Also conjunct his Moon and MC closely (1-2).
squaring his Saturn on DESC exact (26.42 Virgo)

also sextile PSYCHE

Eurydike is out of bounds in his chart at 26 S.

posted September 11, 2014 04:10 PM            

So, I finally checked the composite. (Remind me to tell you about how a lot of the story my Twin and I wrote feature Eurydicean/Orpheus ... -ean(?) themes.) As usual though, this one's with my Guardian.

Well ... let's just get right to the meat of it, shall we?

cSUN is super-conjunct cORPHEUS, 3º. Wide, but also parallel, so definitely of note.

What's most intriguing? cEURYDIKE is parallel cORPHEUS, even if they're not conjunct; they're not even really making a trine. It's kinda no-aspect. So that parallel is very telling.

But furthermore ... cEURYDIKE is antiscia cORPHEUS, 0º30.

Ahhhhhh.

Now, the cARISTAEUS conjunct my drHADES (0º) and his drLEWISCARROLL (2º) -- and opposite cPERSEPHONE is an intriguing pattern.

And, of course, cARISTAEUS is parallel cLEWISCARROLL, which trines the cSUN 1º.

But I think it's most interesting how cSUN, cORPHEUS, cEURYDIKE and cVENUS are all parallel.

cSPHINX is at 8ºPIS'49, and parallel ASC-URANUS-DESTINN.

Gah!

Hey, now, THAT would explain the wild swings.

The very relationship is dependent upon the riddle -- and its answer.

cORPHEUS is trine cVERTEX-CHIRON (2º), too. But square cHADES (2º30).

Hmm. What's up with cPERSEPHONE opposite cARISTAEUS?

:forehead-slap:

IT'S EXACTLY CONJUNCT my nTISIPHONE-LACHESIS, and 2º his nSUN.

No wonder! The CHIRON-VERTEX is activated by the ASCENDANT-URANUS-DESTINN. And THAT, my fellow stargazers, is triggered by cSPHINX -- which is not only parallel, but also antiscia 1º.

And suddenly, the variability makes TOTAL sense.

Especially that MADHATTER-PSYCHE at the apex of the chart, quindecile ALICE, opposite MOON and EROS, and most importantly -- parallel HADES. Which is close enough to ALGOL for me to pay attention.

Fortunately, cEURYDIKE is trine cVENUS-JUPITER, which, we know ORPHEUS links into that with a conjunction to the cSUN.

And ... ah! cARISTEAUS is parallel cLEWISCARROLL and cSNODE opposite cTISIPHONE.

The 'Snakebite'. Especially since cARISTAEUS is on my drHADES conjunct his drLEWISCARROLL, square his drHADES-TISIPHONE, and conjunct his nSATURN.

We're talking exact, now. Nothing over 0º25.

Well, THAT's clarity. The cVERTEX-CHIRON is activated by how decisions affect 'The Riddle' (the SPHINX) which then determine how that cASC-URA plays out.

posted September 11, 2014 05:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
So, I finally checked the composite.

cSUN is super-conjunct cORPHEUS, 3º. Wide, but also parallel, so definitely of note.

What's most intriguing? cEURYDIKE is parallel cORPHEUS.

But furthermore ... cEURYDIKE is antiscia cORPHEUS, 0º30.

But I think it's most interesting how cSUN, cORPHEUS, cEURYDIKE and cVENUS are all parallel.

---

Composite Orpheus 21.4 S and on parallel levels, tied to Persephone and True/Mean Node on the S-side. Also contraparallel Venus. All as in the chart otherwise I guess.

6.14 S cEurydike contraparallel Uranus and Ceres, parallel Juno that it was conjunct. Uranus the odd one out from Virgo.

posted September 11, 2014 06:11 PM            

Now I'm trying to figure out what the method is. Once we see there's a Eurydices/Orpheus 'conflict', we then need to identify the source / AKA 'the snakebite' (ARISTAEUS) and ...

... and then what? See how each are positioned in synastry and composite?

For example, cORPHEUS on the SUN shows that this is a BIG focus. cEURYDIKE trine cJUPITER-VENUS is encouraging.

But then would we need to look deeper to see ... how?

Maybe the antiscia of ... cEURYDIKE? Of JUPITER-VENUS?

posted September 12, 2014 02:20 AM            

I am reading Charles Janye at the moment and he gets me to check the parallels, which I usually forget, but oh God, they do flabbergast me.

Jsut this time, I could have done without the Orpheus-Eurydike theme.

Anyway composite

EURYDIKE 6.07 Sag in 10th
(conj. natural LILITH on 8.38 Sag and mean LILITh on 6.16 Sag)

ORPHEUS 24.44 Cap in 12th
(conj. Moon on 22.53 Cap)

While they are not in any obvious aspect, what I managed to not see - ME, who usually always sees the antiscia THIS one managed to conveniently elude me. lol

Anyway antiscion of ORPHEUS is of course 5.16 Sagittarius (hence EURY is on its antiscion).

antision of Moon is 7°07 Sag.

antiscion of EURYIKE is 23°53 Capricorn.

the interesting thing is that both are configured with lunar symbols.

Orpheus directly with Moon and per antiscion with the dark side of the Moon, Lilith.

Eurydike directly with Lilith (which sort of makes sense her being in the underworld and all) and per antiscion with Moon.

The sabian of Eurydike-Lilith
Cupid Knocks At The Door Of A Human Heart

the sabian of Orpheus
A Store Filled With Precious Oriental Rugs

It is funny how the "celibacy-Sabian" is being left out in the conjunction.

Moon on 22 Cap
A Soldier Receiving Two Awards For Bravery In Combat

as for the parallels/ contraparallels

EURYDIKE 21.19 S
mean LILITH 21.21 S
natural LILITh 21.44 S

ORPHEUS 21.10S
Moon 21.29 S

This is simply too "orchestrated" to ignore, too close, and too aligned with the Moon-Lilith-theme.

It gets even creepier in its alignment with our natal charts

EURYDIKE conjuncts my ASC by 0°54 and my mars by 0°57
(of course that means both Liliths are conjunct my ASC as well, and the natural one is on the same Sabian as my ATLANTIS, and also conjunct my Neptune-NN with about 1,5 degrees)

ORPHEUS conjuncts his Venus 1°11 and sextiles his ASC (usually I do not look up sextiles of a composite to the natal charts, in this case however I did cause it was already mentioned in my chart).

of course that means that the antiscia are also at play.

ORPHEUS-Moon being on the antiscion of my ASC on 7.01 Sag and Mar son 5.10 Sag

EURYDIKE-LILITH being on the antiscion of his Venus on 25.55 Sag

And naturally that means his Venus is on the antiscion of my Mars (1°05)

as for parallels, on the 21 degree in declination we have

my Mars 21°13 S
my NN 21°58 S
my Avx 21°43 S
my ASC 21°29 S

his Neptune 21°45 S
his ORPHEUS 21°29 S

contraparallel

my Saturn 21°56 N
my Vertex 21°43N

synastrically his ORPHEUS falls onto my Venus-ISIS-OSIRIS-conjunction with his Draco ISIS.

Orpheus and both Isis being on 8 Cap
An Angel Carrying A Harp

his Eurydike is conjunct my Sun and my CIRCE, SEKHMET and REIKI oh and Caesar and Nofretete and King as well. And Tesla, Jung and Robinhood, the asteroids are having a party on the GC and just a degree off or on my (and his) Sun. lol

posted September 12, 2014 02:30 AM            

"During A Silent Hour, A Man Receives A New Inspiration Which May Change His Life"

trine Jupiter in 5th house exactly
square Uranus in 9th house by 2 degrees

quinkunx KAALI in 7th (0°28)
opposite KARMA in 7th (0°36)

Kaali:
Two Heads Looking Out And Beyond The Shadows

KARMA
Early Morning Dew Sparkles As Sunlight Floods The Field
(my Draco Chiron is there too)

Well of course it is also contraparallel KARMA (0°10)

posted September 12, 2014 02:47 AM            

you made me look up Sisyphus, Orcus and Fides in our composite.

FIDES 27.11 Cap in 12th
cojunct ORPHEUS 2°27

and our ASC is on 1 Aqua

ORCUS on 28°01 Cancer

of course that makes a Grand Cross with

UNIOn 29.39 Libra

Chiron 29.49 Aries
ATROPOS 00.10 Taurus

Sabians:

FIDES
A Large Aviary

ORCUS
A Greek Muse Weighing Newborn Twins In Golden Scales

UNION
Three Mounds Of Knowledge On A Philosopher's Head

Chiron
A Duck Pond And Its Brood