posted October 20, 2014 06:02 PM            

I am my own laboratory. My relationships are my lab rats( said with affection). If you see yourself in this article, know that Chiron relationships just seem to blow up. Neither person is the good guy. Neither person is the bad guy. I think I found some insights on why they blow. Look at all your relationships which get close very quickly and have a very deep intimacy. If there is a strong Chiron in synastry, most likely, they will not last.

First of all, let me define a Chiron relationship. One person’s Chiron must conjunct a PERSONAL planet or angle in the other person’s charts. Chiron may conjunct asteroids, too.In these cases, it would be the bad asteroids. By bad, I mean asteroids like Sedna( severe betrayal by men), Medusa( destruction by women), Dejanira( the victim) and Nessus( the abuser) I use the conjunction because it is the strongest aspect. In my research, I do not look at other aspects with Chiron. It is not because they do not count, just that the conjunction trumps all other aspects in intensity.

So, the Chiron relationship could be all manner of aspects. It could be Sun/Chiron, Moon/Chiron, Mercury/Chiron/ Mars/Chiron, Saturn/Chiron,Venus/Chiron, Ascendent/Chiron. MC/Chiron, IC/Chiron, DSC/Chiron or various asteroids conjunct Chiron. The conjunction must be close. It must be 2-3 degrees, tops, in my experience.

Now that we have defined a Chiron relationship, let me share about some of mine, how they started, progressed and failed. One of my most recent ones was with a woman. It got close fast. It felt the way best friends feel, warm and safe. It started going bad when I had a very different philosophy on life. She did not agree. I stood firm. It got tense. She acted poorly to me. I stood up. However, in this case, we had an unusual outcome in that we were able to make a peace, not a friendship, but a peace. Once Chiron relationships break, they never go back to what they were. That is another defining trait.

However, when I looked more closely, I saw that she was reacting from pain of a mother whom she saw as rigid in the same belief system I had. *I* was reacting from not being allowed to have a voice as a child. She was saying”Don’t be rigid like my mother”. I was saying, “I WILL have my voice and you are not going to stop me” Hence, the core pain of each person played out. This is another trait of the Chiron relationship i.e the core pain will play out. Again, no one is the good one and no one is the bad one.

I will describe another recent Chiron relationship. This was Saturn/Chiron. I was the Saturn. This relationship got close very quickly. I felt as if we would be best friends forever. He did, too. I helped him when he was in a lot of pain. He came to some profound spiritual insights. It was very exhausting for me as I gave a great deal of my primal energy. However, I was very happy.

The problem arose when he said that maybe he did NOT believe what he had accepted. I said that was fine but I did not want to hear about it. He said that he could say what he wanted. I said that I had a boundary and did not want to discuss this ONE point. He said that he did not want to talk to me anymore.

Again, no one is right and no one is wrong. It is a situation where pain comes out and controls the outcome. His pain was that he could not say what he wanted. My pain was that I had a mother who I kept trying to show various truths.. She would seem to see it and then after all my efforts would act like she saw nothing.

Please, don’t get lost in the details of this, look at the larger point of pain intersecting. I give the details, just to make it clearer about how pain intersects.

If I go back to my Venus/Chiron relationship that failed, I have some new insights. I was the Venus. She was the Chiron. I am not sure who comes to whom for healing, the planet person or the Chiron person. The planet person may be the one who learns the lessons more. At any rate, in this relationship, we got close fast. We felt like we were best friends. We shared all sorts of intimate details, some we never shared with others. I thought she dissed me but in retrospect, she didn’t. She needed space. She thought I violated her space but I did not.

She has Chiron in the 12th. She has hidden pain. I was bringing up her hidden pain. I don’t think she knew what exactly was happening. The person with Chiron in the 12th cannot put his finger on his pain as can the people with Chiron in the other houses. Hence, I brought out something in her and she exploded. The funny thing was that the incident was very, very small. This is classic for Chiron blow ups, too.

Ronnie Valentine, a wonderful Astrologer said these kind words to me. I put them up here with gratitude and humility( and because I need a little TLC )

Chiron brings madness to earth in a tantalizing way. I like how you translate it to relationships…You carry on tantalizing us all!

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posted October 20, 2014 07:06 PM            

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Originally posted by astra7:
I love your Chiron articles.
Thank you for putting your stories up, they are fascinating. Real stories are so much better than reading a cookbook aspect descriptions.

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Thanks Astra. You made my day!

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posted October 20, 2014 07:08 PM            

Chiron In Synastry

Chiron in synastry i. e. in the chart of the relationship, is a very strange thing. When I see my Chiron touching another person or vice -versa, I brace myself. Something strange is going to happen. This can be a male or a female. I have to laugh, now, because this has happened with every Chiron relationship I have ever had except for one. The relationship feels very close. You feel as if you have known the person for a very, long time. Then, something small will happen, usually, to make the whole relationship break up and it never comes back.

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posted October 20, 2014 07:32 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Here is another little short one, Astra. This was several years ago when I was beginning my study of Chiron.

Chiron In Synastry

Chiron in synastry i. e. in the chart of the relationship, is a very strange thing. When I see my Chiron touching another person or vice -versa, I brace myself. Something strange is going to happen. This can be a male or a female. I have to laugh, now, because this has happened with every Chiron relationship I have ever had except for one. The relationship feels very close. You feel as if you have known the person for a very, long time. Then, something small will happen, usually, to make the whole relationship break up and it never comes back.

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posted October 20, 2014 07:39 PM            

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Originally posted by astra7:
I love your Chiron articles.
Thank you for putting your stories up, they are fascinating. Real stories are so much better than reading a cookbook aspect descriptions.

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+1

posted October 20, 2014 07:40 PM            

Astra--Pay attention to Chiron and you will see how it FEELS different. It has it's own unique feel!

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posted October 20, 2014 11:19 PM            

Also we dont have a bunch of chiron aspects but we did get close quickly and very intimate and I feel this is the case bec his draco juno activates a heartbreak Yod in my chart. His Draco juno conjuncts exact my natal chiron which is at the apex of a yod involving chiron apex-cupido-saturn.

We do have composite chiron in the 7th at the apex of a Yod as well.

posted October 21, 2014 12:51 AM            

I don't think they have to come apart or fail. That sounds a bit pessimistic, in my view. If you both want to heal the past and help each other, why need it fail?

posted October 21, 2014 01:27 AM            

Though, on further reflection, our first relationship did technically end -- after six months. Then it resumed, briefly, for another six months. Then, it faded into returning to a platonic dynamic for the next two years.

Since last October, it's resumed in a legitimate, and now rather committed capacity. Neither of us see that changing.

posted October 21, 2014 01:31 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Interesting.

I don't think they have to come apart or fail. That sounds a bit pessimistic, in my view. If you both want to heal the past and help each other, why need it fail?

I think it just takes awareness, honesty, and mutual dedication.

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posted October 21, 2014 07:15 AM            

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Originally posted by twinflame1914:
My bf has Chiron in the twelfth and we have a lot of Chiron contacts

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Don't despair!

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posted October 21, 2014 07:19 AM            

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Originally posted by twinflame1914:
So i don't have to tell my bf we have to break up because of Chiron?

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Twinflame, some of the things you say REALLY concern me. It sounds as if you're perpetually waiting for the other shoe to drop in your relationship, or are looking for 'justified' reasons to end it.

I have to ask -- are you happy with this man? Truly? Or, conversely, are you SO happy that you're terrified of it ending so that it's become an obsession? In any case, one should NEVER use astrology as justification to end a relationship. Period.

I think you'd be a bit happier or less stressed and anxious if you didn't approach it so fatalistically.

posted October 21, 2014 07:21 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Put up the synastry, if you want Twinflame!

Don't despair!

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posted October 21, 2014 07:31 AM            

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Originally posted by twinflame1914:
So i don't have to tell my bf we have to break up because of Chiron?

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50 years of love for this couple, very close to me:

she has Venus conj Chiron, he has Venus opp Chiron

in synastry:

chiron conj Mars trine Pluto sextile Lilith
chiron opp Mercury sq Juno sextile NN/DSC exact and Ceres/Vertex

composite Chiron conj Union opposite Amor square Venus trine Pholus sextile Vertex

impressive Draco Chiron contacts to luminaries, vertices, Venus and Mars etc.

The couple we always use as example:

Joanne Woodward/Paul Newman

her Chiron conj his IC opp his Saturn exact square his NN
his Chiron square her Pluto and Juno trine her Vertex

Composite Chiron conj IC square Mercury trine Juno/Pholus sextile Moon/Amor exact

In my experience, at least one two hard aspects between Chiron and major personal planets are always present in significant, lifetime relationships, in combination with a bunch of soft aspects. But the HARD ones, are always there.

posted October 21, 2014 08:58 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
50 years of love for this couple, very close to me:

she has Venus conj Chiron, he has Venus opp Chiron

in synastry:

chiron conj Mars trine Pluto sextile Lilith
chiron opp Mercury sq Juno sextile NN/DSC exact and Ceres/Vertex

composite Chiron conj Union opposite Amor square Venus trine Pholus sextile Vertex

impressive Draco Chiron contacts to luminaries, vertices, Venus and Mars etc.

The couple we always use as example:

Joanne Woodward/Paul Newman

her Chiron conj his IC opp his Saturn exact square his NN
his Chiron square her Pluto and Juno trine her Vertex

Composite Chiron conj IC square Mercury trine Juno/Pholus sextile Moon/Amor exact

In my experience, at least one two hard aspects between Chiron and major personal planets are always present in significant, lifetime relationships, in combination with a bunch of soft aspects. But the HARD ones, are always there.

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posted October 21, 2014 09:19 AM            

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Twinflame, some of the things you say REALLY concern me. It sounds as if you're perpetually waiting for the other shoe to drop in your relationship, or are looking for 'justified' reasons to end it.

I have to ask -- are you happy with this man? Truly? Or, conversely, are you SO happy that you're terrified of it ending so that it's become an obsession? In any case, one should NEVER use astrology as justification to end a relationship. Period.

I think you'd be a bit happier or less stressed and anxious if you didn't approach it so fatalistically.

This is my best, honest, advice.

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posted October 21, 2014 09:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Interesting.

I don't think they have to come apart or fail. That sounds a bit pessimistic, in my view. If you both want to heal the past and help each other, why need it fail?

I think it just takes awareness, honesty, and mutual dedication.

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posted October 21, 2014 09:26 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

In my experience, at least one two hard aspects between Chiron and major personal planets are always present in significant, lifetime relationships, in combination with a bunch of soft aspects. But the HARD ones, are always there.

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Yes they are.

But like always it depends so much on the overall mix and makeup of the chart.

Of course hard Chiron aspects can bring pain and nothing else. But then we will find serious setbacks at other places in the synastry as well.

For example a Chironic T-square to relationship planets without strong interconnectedness between luminaries, angles, Venus, dESC-ruler etc.

A chiron hard aspect on its own will not make a relationship crash and burn (as will no isolated aspect, no matter what), but how it is being experienced depends a lot on what else is going on in the synastry.

BTW I like her take on chiron here:

"When Chiron is prominent in a synastry, particularly if it makes conjunctions to relationship planets or hits an angle, both people are drawn into the relationship because the healing vibe is strong for both parties. We sense that something is missing in our lives, and we want it back, now. We may not recognize Chiron’s pull as a healing vibe, but we get the sense that this relationship is the only thing that can make us feel whole again, just in the place where we feel most empty and forlorn. This is very seductive. The other person promises to become the vehicle for all the transforming powers, our own personal conduit between the earth and the stars and back again. This person can deliver the goods that I didn’t think I would/could ever get. It’s not the illusion of spiritual melding that Neptune implies, or Uranus’s promise of perpetual stimulation. The initial vibe with Chiron contacts is deliverance: this person appeared in my life specifically to take me where I need to go. The implied thought being: ‘and I don’t have to be hungry anymore. This relationship is the answer. The Struggle Bus stops here.’

Chiron contacts are powerful and passionate at first, with the combined promise of innate hungers fulfilled and innate flaws mended. There is also a physical, earthy element to Chiron that taps into his animal nature, and Chiron contacts can be highly sexual. Like any planet or asteroid in the chart, Chiron has his good and bad side, and Chiron contacts indicate that a great deal of healing can be achieved. Unfortunately, the process involves hitting all the most sensitive, painful buttons whilst trying not to lose love for one another. Chiron can be a real test of the depth of feeling between two people, because the hurt, usually, is inadvertent. I’m not so much targeting you in a Plutonian way as I am constantly, accidentally, shredding your heart, because I can’t help it. Chiron contacts can be remarkably long-lived as well, depending on how much we have associated pain with love.

posted October 21, 2014 09:50 AM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
hahaha cool gif, Selene

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