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Author Topic:   (love)midpoint-complexes
Ceridwen
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posted January 22, 2015 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While the midpoint of two planets need a planet or angle to ACTIVATE them, I think it might be interesting to check in which complexes of midpoints they "bundle" together.

For example you may have Venus/Mars at 10° mutable, which would be activated by anytime a transiting planet or someone`elses planet was at 10° mutable as well.
However if your Venus/Mars-mp was in a lump together with Uranus/Neptune-mp (let`s say on 11 mutable), or Saturn/Pluto-mp or any other midpoint, those wuold of course be activated simultaneously.
It means that your ver ypersonal love midpoints come together with a certain theme.

For example my Moon/Venus-mp comes together with Jupiter/Neptune and Jupiter/Node.

Moon/Venus 26°37 cardinal
Jupiter/Neptune 25°35 cardinal
Jupiter/Node 25°41 cardinal

(orb is 1°, 1°30 max.)

What it means is I won`t get Moon/Venus without Jupiter, Neptune and Node. Now could be worse I suppose, but could be more pragmatic either.

I do not have a planet in my own chart at about 25-26 cardinal (though my Jupiter, Neptune and Nodes are making semisquares to it, which is usually counted in midpoint astrology as well, I just like to keep things simple and focus on the conjunction, opposition and square for midpoints, they are the strongest or most dynamic aspects anyway).

However whenever something transits it (or through synastric planets), this complex gets activated.

Moon/Venus has of course to do with the emotional-romantic side of a personality, the receptive relationship planets, hence is telling us about how I feel affections (does not mean I would show them, for that I guess a masculine planet would need to be part of it).

It also of course speaks of the "feminine archetype" and sais something about me as a woman. here it sais that my feminity or feelings of romance are coloured by the idealism of Jupiter/Neptune, and some rather grand dreams and possibly delusion. lol
and also indicates the connection to Jupiter-emphasized people or relationships that have a Jupiter-like vibration (nodal axis is primarily about connections in midpoint astrology and quite frankly in every other kind of astrology as well).

Of course this just emphasizes the fact that I have a lot of SAg in my chart, and also reminds me of my Neptune and NN in cojunction to my SAgittarius-ASC with Jupiter in Pisces squaring it. So nothing really new here, just a condensed picture.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 22, 2015 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
However I do think it might be interesting to check what midpoints overlay each other in synastry as well; even though they may lie dormant for most of the time, everytime a Transiting planet passes them he will bring them to life, and it might be quite different energies!


For example, the Ariespoint is important in that it signifies your relation to the public, and what of your personality becomes publicly known (in more general terms than ASC or MC of course). What the public sees of you, things that are just so obvious.


in my case I have two midpoints configured with the AP (1°30 orb).

Mercury/Venus 00°35 cardinal
Sun/Venus 01°02 cardinal

(in short words some of the more obvious traits of me seem to be my idealization, diplomacy and my interest in the arts of course - there is more of course. Sun/Venus on the Aries point, is a bit like a loverelations with or in public as well. lol)


Now Mr Sag also has midpoints configured with the AP.

Moon/MC 88°40 (1°20 off the AP)
Jupiter/Pluto 00°46 cardinal
Mars/Pluto 1°15 cardinal

(interestingly enough his own Mercury/Venus is on 2°39 cardinal, so not that far off my own, which means, if a transit is basically in the middle between them, for both of us Mercury/Venus is being activated).


Anyway he has of course different energies tied to the AP. the Moon/MC is interesting, as it speaks of a very emotional and personal relationship with the public, and that is really one of the things he always does and emphasiszes, the need to connect with his audience on a more personal level.

Anyway, int his case the Jupiter/pluto and Mars/Pluto-mp is more interesting, as it is closer to my set of midpoints.

In fact his Mars/Pluto on 1°15 is REALLY close to my Sun/Venus on 1°02

While on its own that means basically NOTHING, I did notice how often, when interesting events happened between us, some major planet or axis would transit 1 cardinal.

This actually started with our first meeting chart which has:

Pluto 0°32
Moon 1°59
and funny enough Moon was on the Venus/Mars-mp that day
Ve/Ma (but on 2°14)

other midpoints that day configured with the AP were
Uranus/MC 1.00
Jupiter/ASC 1.13
Moon/Pluto 1.16

(those would be important in interpreting the first meeting chart, as they were tied to AP plus Moon and Pluto).


Anyway, I also noticed this in other event charts

On the day we first saw each other, though did not talk
Mercury 0°34
NN 1°30

----------------------------

On the day he first approached me and talked to me during one of his shows
Sun 1°21
(and Uranus 2°38 lol)

------------------------------------------

last june when he was commenting on that I was driving him crazy:
Tr Moon 1°51
Tr Mercury 1°46

--------------------------

in august, when he came down to ask for my name and just basically drive me nuts during the whole evening, because I felt too much on display, there was no planet directly on the AP, however, if we use the 8th harmonic as well (45 and 135 degrees), then we find

Tr Venus 44°01 (0°59 off the AP)
Tr ASC 45°26 (0°26)
Tr Mars 46°24( 1°24)

Of course that means that the transiting Venus/Mars-mp was once again on the AP (0°13)


The reason that is of interest to me is that, on these occasions for each of us our natal midpoints were being triggered, but very different ones.

Everytime my Sun/Venus is triggered, his reaction is more Mars/Pluto, so I suppose that is a very different experience of the same occasion.

Well I suppose it could be even worse, whily my Sun/Venus being triggered, his Saturn/Neptune could be triggered which in the worst case scenario could mean a rejection-scenario.

I mean seriously who would want that.
You feel in love (Sun/Venus) and the other person feels weakened, disillusioned and sick (Saturn/Neptune). (of course just a worst case scenario - they could also work for the materialization of their dreams).

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Ceridwen
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posted January 22, 2015 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some keywords for love midpoints (and some others).

Sun/Moon:
Yin-and-Yang, whole personality

ASC/MC:
projection and manifestation of Self (externally, as opposed to the Sun/moon-mp which is not necessarily becoming very visible to others).


Sun/Venus:
expression of love and admiration; "in love"

Sun/Mars: the masculine archetype

Moon/Venus: feminine archetype
receptivity to romantic and emotional impulses, affection, caring etc. (can be very internalized, the Sun/Venus-mp wuold be more demonstrative in most cases)

Moon/Mars:
emotional impulses; emotional passion; fertility-midpoint

Moon/Jupiter:
feeling (emotionally) good, supportive and supporting (not necessarily romantic)

Moon/Pluto:
emotional intensity
(though generally not a romance-midpoint, the combination of soul and intensity can make for deep passionate feelings that run very very deep, oh and obsessive)


Moon/Node, Moon/ASC and Moon/MC all speak about emotional connections, feeling like family

Mercury/Venus:
flirtative playful vibes; verbal eroticism as well


Venus/Mars
sexual or erotic passions and instincts; can be purely physical though (for the running-deep-primal passions we would look to the Moon/Mars or Venus/Pluto or even Moon/Pluto-midpoints.)


Venus/Jupiter
the joy of love
just that romantic honeymoon feeling, about feeling grand with each othr, but with the romance factor included.

Venus/URanus
the thrill of love, love at first sight
sudden, electric magnetism; might not last forever though.

Venus/Neptune
the dream of love
soulmate or grand delusion - both very possible
glamourous dreamy magical feelings of love, very much idealization

Venus/Pluto
the power of love
kathartic, passionate, transformative or destructive
what is sure is that this is intense attraction, often experienced as fated (sometimes even somewhat tragic) love

Venus/Node:
love connection

Venus/ASC
attraction-midpoint, oftentimes also the appeal we exude towards others and/ or being attracted to appearances mostly.
It does not need to be superficial though.
sometimes also denotes a love-relationship.


Venus/MC
loverelationship.
This one is actually the clearest sign of a loverelationship/marriage in midpoint astrology.
I suppose that is so because the inclusion of MC makes things very official, very visible.
In fact I noticed the connection between Venus and MC in predicitive charts even more often than Sun-Venus (second best) or Venus-ASC (though still frequent) at times of marriage or committed relationships.

Mars/Pluto
well sexual passion for sure, powerplays sometimes as well. And actually the intensity of the sexual impulses can get so intense....
Well I suppose there is a reason some astrologers associated Mars-Pluto with sexual violence and/ or rape.
it does not have to lead to that obviously, but I suppose the intensity of this aspect is really strong and/ or there is a strong thrust into manifestation. The energy has to express somehow.
Nevertheless, one of the more exciting ones to check I think.

Mine is actually conjoined with my ASC/MC-midpoint, both in Scorpio; well in my daily life I am pretty known for that quiet determination, I mean if I made up my mind about something, there is no way to stop me. Not that I will run over anyone like a bulldozer, but I have a lot of persistance.

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Keela
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posted January 22, 2015 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keela     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Some keywords for love midpoints (and some others).

Sun/Venus:
expression of love and admiration; "in love"

Sun/Mars: the masculine archetype

Moon/Venus: feminine archetype
receptivity to romantic and emotional impulses, affection, caring etc. (can be very internalized, the Sun/Venus-mp would be more demonstrative in most cases)

Venus/Pluto
the power of love
kathartic, passionate, transformative or destructive
what is sure is that this is intense attraction, often experienced as fated (sometimes even somewhat tragic) love

Venus/Node:
love connection

Venus/MC
loverelationship.
This one is actually the clearest sign of a loverelationship/marriage in midpoint astrology.
I suppose that is so because the inclusion of MC makes things very official, very visible.

Mars/Pluto
well sexual passion for sure, powerplays sometimes as well. And actually the intensity of the sexual impulses can get so intense....
Well I suppose there is a reason some astrologers associated Mars-Pluto with sexual violence and/ or rape.
it does not have to lead to that obviously, but I suppose the intensity of this aspect is really strong and/ or there is a strong thrust into manifestation. The energy has to express somehow.
Nevertheless, one of the more exciting ones to check I think.

Mine is actually conjoined with my ASC/MC-midpoint, both in Scorpio; well in my daily life I am pretty known for that quiet determination, I mean if I made up my mind about something, there is no way to stop me. Not that I will run over anyone like a bulldozer, but I have a lot of persistance.


Saturn/Neptune is that negative, really? Great, basically conjunct IC, have fun losing at home, what?

ASC/MC was always at 4 Gem conjunct Mars-Talent, Sun/Venus is around 3 Virgo square it and Moon/Venus at ~3 Sag to make for more square-set things. No idea if I ever felt transits more (or less) with such things since I either don't keep track of transits or fail to see anything observable from them the way they should supposedly be felt, according to big hoopla warnings or more.

Have known a ton-load of early Virgos over the years and always seem to pick them up (as friends, pals, acquaintances, whatever) more easily than other people, but with a late Leo Sun, 0.30 Pisces Moon and 6.57 R Virgo Venus, early Virgos fall in the region of all that whether midpoints or not. Probably also with the Mars square, but apparently the Virgos deal with it if any sort of a problem to them. In Gemini, possibly less of a problem than it otherwise might be. No idea.

Mars takes precedence over possible transits, overrides them?

----

Sun/Mars 16 Cancer, Venus/NN 16,5 Libra, Moon/Mars 17 Aries.

I have a traditional "pull" or habit of honing in on or drawing in people (especially males) with something at around 15-17 Cancer, but so far it's mostly (only?) been Cancer only. Everybody else in the family has something big and visible there (father's ASC + Mars+Saturn so big male stuff from what I recall, brother's Sun so more male contacts), while I have nothing but asteroids and midpoints and my Valentine contrascia at 15 Cancer. Amor trine the spot from 16 Pisces, Mercury sextile from 16.53 Virgo. Always wondered what I supposedly had to hit the spot since there was nothing big or visible to explain any of the synastry contacts. Would a Sun/Mars in your opinion be enough to pull in male contacts to the spot?

Venus/Pluto around 22 Virgo and no recall of anything touching it. Even with it contrascia Pluto and opposite the usual Lilith given by Astrodienst. Venus/ASC around 22 Leo and whether for that or other things, have had some attraction toward 22-23 Aquarius people over time. Mostly Suns, some other things.

Venus/MC around 20 Gemini, opposite 19 Sag Vertex and Moon/Pluto 19,5 Sag. Quite near a square to the Venus/Pluto but seems off at the two degrees. There's also one marriage Arabic part at 18 Sag, but then Nessus/Mars MP is ~18 Gem, too, so what are you going to do? Don't **** me off in intense affairs or Nessus kicks in actively? Nessus/Pluto at ~20 Leo.

My ASC on my Mars/Pluto beats you all in any case. Potentially near literally if you don't submit to "Oh yeah? Well F. you and the horse you rode in on, too" double Leo Mars/Pluto charms. Or whatever you'd call it. Trust me, it's a good thing to have. At least from the point of view of the person who has it. All the better with my two name asteroids also having their MP the same place. I looove Pluto and Mars, also trining the DC. Certainly not sex negative here if nothing else, although not running around rampant either.

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Gabby
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posted January 23, 2015 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting Ceri!!

I have these midpoints lumped together. Looks like love and pain trigger each other a lot in my chart...
--Venus libra@19.05--
Moon/NN libra@19.50
Chiron/Jupiter aries@19.38
Pluto/Chiron cancer@17.38
Venus/Jupiter cap@17.03
Pluto/Venus libra@15.(<~deepest love of my life had cap AC@15)

--My Vertex aries@21.30--
Chiron/Venus cancer@21.39

--My Chiron aries@24.14--
Jupiter/Uranus cap@24.53
Sun/Moon, Moon/Mercury, Venus/Uranus-libra@26.(<~deepest love of my life has Karma aries@25.26)

Nep/Moon libra@29.55(<~deepest love of my life had Jupiter scorp@0.10)
Uranus/Chiron cap@29.29

Mars/Venus leo@24.18(<~deepest love of mine had taurus venus@25)
Moon/Saturn leo@25.42

Uranus/Neptune scorp@22.59
Mars/Jupiter taurus@22.18
--NN scorp@21.44--(<~deepest love had his Vertex leo@21.29/Mercury taurus@21)
Pluto/Mars leo@20.18
Sun/Uranus scorp@19.36
Merc/Uranus scorp@19.10

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Gabby
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posted January 23, 2015 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Keela:
Saturn/Neptune is that negative, really? Great, basically conjunct IC, have fun losing at home, what?


Omg!!! My Neptune/Saturn libra@7.02
My AC libra@7.05
IC cap@7.56
That's just lovely!!

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Gabby
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posted January 23, 2015 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Planets activating the Saturn/Neptune midpoint
Principle: Psychic sensitivity, which can manifest in irrational fear, paranoia, feeling drained, confused, etc. The need to take one's psychic sensitivity seriously, and to protect it. Physical problems whose roots are to be found in one's psychic sensitivity, and which can therefore be difficult to diagnose by traditional medical means. The attempt to combine the ideal with the real, that is, to bring one's ideals into physical manifestation. The feeling of being let down, frustrated, or sad when one's ideals fail to become a reality. The need to stand firm and true by one's ideals and to purify them by purging them of any delusions or distortions, so that one may clearly see the relationship between one's hopes and dreams and physical reality.

Process: The clearing away of confusion and misconceptions. The realization of the relationship between one's ideals and the limitations of the physical world, which leads to the ability to hold on to ideals while yet also being able to live them in some practical, real way.

Sun: One feels that it is important to bring one's ideals into physical manifestation. One's vitality and physical health are easily disturbed by discordant or negative psychic energy.

Moon: The tendency to take in negative psychic energy without knowing it, and then to experience all sorts of negative emotions. One's emotions are soothed by being in simple, natural, calming and supportive environments. The ability to instinctively see those subtle forces that oppress other people.

Mercury: To communicate in a way that is both serious and subtle. Negative psychic energy has a disruptive effect on the nervous system. Frustration due to others not picking up on the subtleties one is trying to express. One's ideas have a confusion and/or chaotic structure to them.

Venus: In love one feels a need to deny the self by putting the other person first. One who is seriously idealistic about romance. The ability to appreciate suffering, and to have intuitive insights into its spiritual meaning and purpose.

Mars: One is capable of acting with subtle caution. Working hard to make one's ideals a physical reality. To be inhibited or repressed when it comes to asserting oneself, and the need to look deeply into the roots of this. It may be because one expects too much from oneself and is too idealistic about the potential outcome of what one does, making it simply easier, psychologically, to not act.

Jupiter: An enthusiasm for making one's ideals manifest in physical reality, and a confidence and optimism concerning the possible fulfillment of this.

Chiron: One can potentially heal others by helping them to experience the gap between their ideals and reality, and to perceive that this gap serves the purpose of fostering soul evolution. Helping others to see deeply into their fears so they may be released.

Uranus: One has original and unique insights into problems and their underlying and/or hidden nature, and into the structure of things in general. A genius for finding ways of bringing the products of one's imagination into physical reality.

Pluto: One may be plagued by fears, often of an inexplicable nature, and is driven to get to the bottom of these. A transformation of your life can occur if you are willing to take your own intuition seriously.

Node: To experience strange and/or inexplicable uncertainties and insecurities when connecting with other people. The need to clear discordant psychic energy accruing from connection with other people. The need in this lifetime to clearly define one's ideals, and to work to bring them into physical manifestation.

Ascendant: One who has about them the aura of a being sensitive and delicate. One plays the role of a serious and dedicated idealist.

Midheaven: One's spiritual goal in this lifetime is to define and clarify one's imagination so that it may become a vehicle for one's spiritual growth.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 23, 2015 01:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, the Saturn/Neptune-mp was just one example.

Ebertin called it the "sickness" midpoint (but he also called Mars/Saturn the death-midpoint, surely loved some drama. lol), and while it is true Saturn/Neptune can be indicative of some unpleasant things, most of all depression, it has its good sides as well, bringing together the dreams of Neptune and the structure of Saturn, a good one to make your dreams (Neptune) come true (Saturn). Under the best of circumstances. Depends a little how it is configured natally.

For me personally the Saturn/Neptune is lumped together with Saturn/Node, Saturn/ASC (and Uranus/Lilith. lol)

So a real heap of joy

Hopefully the fact that Saturn is biquintile my Neptune-NN-conjunction makes things a little more bearable.
Well my Mars/Saturn-mp is not that far away either, and in fact Mars/Saturn exactly configured with my Sun. Luckily I am very much alive, I think Mars/Saturn might also be indicative of me being able to work really hard and have a lot of tenacity.


However, the one time I got REALLY sick (typical Virgo sickness ), Tr Saturn was exactly on my Mars/Saturn-mp on 26 Virgo and squaring my Sun-Mercury-conjunction naturally.

Transits of Saturn to Neptune (square and opposition) have usually been indicative of the toughest times in my life, spiritually mostly, usually triggered by grave losses, sometimes even the death of friends/ aquaitances.

So I am not espeically looking forward to Saturn conjunct my Neptune soon enough (Neptune is on 10 Sag).
But who knows? Maybe it will be better this time.

While the Tr Saturn conjunct and opposing my n Moon in the years before led to endless depressive moods, the square of Tr Saturn to Moon was really better compared to that. Well no walk in the park, and I have had my fair share of feeling rather down (though nothing beats Tr Neptune squaring my Mars in this regard, hate that swamp-feeling), somehow it turned out to be more constructive.

In fact the three times the square got EXACT, some really good things happened that pushed me forwards in my development.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 23, 2015 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
one of the mor positive takes

"Principle: Psychic sensitivity, which can manifest in irrational fear, paranoia, feeling drained, confused, etc. The need to take one’s psychic sensitivity seriously, and to protect it. Physical problems whose roots are to be found in one’s psychic sensitivity, and which can therefore be difficult to diagnose by traditional medical means. The attempt to combine the ideal with the real, that is, to bring one’s ideals into physical manifestation. The feeling of being let down, frustrated, or sad when one’s ideals fail to become a reality. The need to stand firm and true by one’s ideals and to purify them by purging them of any delusions or distortions, so that one may clearly see the relationship between one’s hopes and dreams and physical reality.

Process: The clearing away of confusion and misconceptions. The realization of the relationship between one’s ideals and the limitations of the physical world, which leads to the ability to hold on to ideals while yet also being able to live them in some practical, real way. The breaking down of old, worn out and/or needlessly limiting structures."

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kaianna
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posted January 23, 2015 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kaianna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh i didnt know midpoints on angles counted lol i thought they were significant though

what do you think about sun/moon=ic?

the sun/moon persons pluto is also their sun/moon midpoint conjunct the other persons ic exact and the other persons sun/mercury at 1 degree and 50 minutes, would you only count the ic or would you also count the sun/mercury conjunction especially since the midpoint person has a planet at their midpoint?

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Ceridwen
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posted January 24, 2015 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"h i didnt know midpoints on angles counted lol"
Sure why not?
Well Ebertin, Tyl and some other authors counted them,s o I include them as well.
We could ponder about the validity of a midpoint of planet and angle though, as those come from different calculations. But so far even something like Venus/MC-mp seems to be valid in my observation.
Angles right on the midpoint of planets most certainly count, and in fact bring the midpoint to the foreground.


"what do you think about sun/moon=ic?"
It usually is being written as MC= Sun/Moon (if the midpoint is on IC, it is also aligned with the MC).

ONe interpretation would be this
"M.C. TO MIDPOINT SUN/MOON
Mind at peace with itself. Fulfilment and consummation of partnership."

Of course these interpretations are mostly for individual charts, however with a little thinking you can adjust them for synastric purposes.

In your case it is even more significiant as a planet is part of it.

"the sun/moon persons pluto is also their sun/moon midpoint conjunct the other persons ic exact and the other persons sun/mercury at 1 degree and 50 minutes"

So person B would bring the configuration of Pluto=Sun/Moon for person A to the foreground, which is what person A experiences.

This probably relates to a very intense consuming, maybe also a bit obsessive relating of person A to person B. A feeling of kathartic transformation of the soul and at the same time is probably experienced as extremely passionate, intense and fated.

Now, person B would not experience it this way.
In fact for them their Sun/Mercury-mp is triggered, which happens to be on the IC (or MC)

So the combination would be MC=Sun/Mercury, so for them it would be more about communication, sharing of thoughts etc.
It does depend also what Mercury rules, should mercury rule a relationship house that might be interesting.

However since person A`s pluto is there, of course person B experiences A as a very transformative, powerful influence. Since Pluto is on their IC, that reaches deep t scary.
But at the same time person A changes, intensifies, transforms, influences greatly person B´s way of thinking (Sun/Mercury-mp). While person A is feeling it more on a relational-emotional level (Sun/Moon-mp).

" would you only count the ic or would you also count the sun/mercury conjunction especially since the midpoint person has a planet at their midpoint?"
I would count it, but be aware that midpoints under one degree are stronger.

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Gabby
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posted January 24, 2015 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a composite that had the Sun sitting in his Sun/Moon midpoint and the Moon on my Sun/Moon midpoint.
In composite his Moon sat on my Sun.
I've never been able to find an interpretation on this, any thoughts?

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Ceridwen
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posted January 24, 2015 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you have a Sun-Moon-conjunction in synastry?

BTW it is the situation between Mr Sag and me.
c-Sun on his Sun/Moon-mp, and c-Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp.


EDIT:
whenever two people shrae a rather close Sun-Moon-conjunction in synastry, this will happen.
Does not mean it is insignificant, quite the opposite, I find it to be pretty significant.

If we remember what the Sun/Moon-mp is about, a point of integration, relationship needs, the balance of yin/yang, composite Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp might signify that the emotional quality inherent in this certain connection triggers a feeling of emotional balance, fulfillment and belonging in me. And possibly the feeling of being able to be genuinely myself.

The composite Sun doing the same for him.


I find it almost funny that when we first met Transit Jupiter was conjunct our composite Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp, while Transit Juno was on our composite Juno on his Sun/Moon-mp, both were under one degree of orb.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 24, 2015 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also if you see it like a mathematic term

c-Sun= his Sun/Moon

you can rephrase it as

C = his Sun/moon minus Sun
C = his Moon

it`s a way of saying that the emphasis is really on his Moon (of course fuelled by the shared Sun), and of course synastrically it is HIS Moon conjunct my Sun.

(well of course Sun is important here, as both Suns are participating in this aspect, after all that is what the composite Sun is, the SHARED Sun-energy. And it is like both Suns are working together to illuminate Moon-energy for him - not for both of us, as it is only HIS Moon who is participating in this aspect).


Well this is a very complicated way of just describing of what the synastric Sun-Moon-conjunction is about anyway.

But that`s the thing about composites, they are really a fascinating mathematic tool to highlight the key-areas in a synastry (even though it might not be that obvious on first glance).

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Gabby
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posted January 24, 2015 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Did you have a Sun-Moon-conjunction in synastry?

BTW it is the situation between Mr Sag and me.
c-Sun on his Sun/Moon-mp, and c-Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp.


EDIT:
whenever two people shrae a rather close Sun-Moon-conjunction in synastry, this will happen.
Does not mean it is insignificant, quite the opposite, I find it to be pretty significant.

If we remember what the Sun/Moon-mp is about, a point of integration, relationship needs, the balance of yin/yang, composite Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp might signify that the emotional quality inherent in this certain connection triggers a feeling of emotional balance, fulfillment and belonging in me. And possibly the feeling of being able to be genuinely myself.

The composite Sun doing the same for him.


I find it almost funny that when we first met Transit Jupiter was conjunct our composite Moon on my Sun/Moon-mp, while Transit Juno was on our composite Juno on his Sun/Moon-mp, both were under one degree of orb.


Yes I'm sorry I said that wrong in synastry we had Sun/Moon conjunct exact.

The composite had the sun/moon on our personal sun-moon midpoints.

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Gabby
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posted January 24, 2015 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gabby     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Also if you see it like a mathematic term

c-Sun= his Sun/Moon

you can rephrase it as

C = his Sun/moon minus Sun
C = his Moon

it`s a way of saying that the emphasis is really on his Moon (of course fuelled by the shared Sun), and of course synastrically it is HIS Moon conjunct my Sun.

(well of course Sun is important here, as both Suns are participating in this aspect, after all that is what the composite Sun is, the SHARED Sun-energy. And it is like both Suns are working together to illuminate Moon-energy for him - not for both of us, as it is only HIS Moon who is participating in this aspect).


Well this is a very complicated way of just describing of what the synastric Sun-Moon-conjunction is about anyway.

But that`s the thing about composites, they are really a fascinating mathematic tool to highlight the key-areas in a synastry (even though it might not be that obvious on first glance).


So do you think this aspect is more about them then it is about us?

It my Sun conjunct his Moon in synastry...saggy like you if I remember correctly.

Then it's comp Sun on his S/M midpoint
Comp Moon on mine

His Moon/Mars and Moon/Neptune are aspecting our Sun/Moon conjunction


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Ceridwen
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posted January 24, 2015 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If there is a Sun-Moon-conjunction in synastry at tight orb, there will ALWAYS be c-Sun on one partner`s Sun/Moon-mp (the one who is the Moon in the synastric conjunction) and c-Moon on the other partner`s Sun/Moon-mp.

It`s not MORE about them than us, just differently.

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kaianna
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posted January 25, 2015 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kaianna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
"h i didnt know midpoints on angles counted lol"
Sure why not?
Well Ebertin, Tyl and some other authors counted them,s o I include them as well.
We could ponder about the validity of a midpoint of planet and angle though, as those come from different calculations. But so far even something like Venus/MC-mp seems to be valid in my observation.
Angles right on the midpoint of planets most certainly count, and in fact bring the midpoint to the foreground.


"what do you think about sun/moon=ic?"
It usually is being written as MC= Sun/Moon (if the midpoint is on IC, it is also aligned with the MC).

ONe interpretation would be this
"M.C. TO MIDPOINT SUN/MOON
Mind at peace with itself. Fulfilment and consummation of partnership."

Of course these interpretations are mostly for individual charts, however with a little thinking you can adjust them for synastric purposes.

In your case it is even more significiant as a planet is part of it.

"the sun/moon persons pluto is also their sun/moon midpoint conjunct the other persons ic exact and the other persons sun/mercury at 1 degree and 50 minutes"

So person B would bring the configuration of Pluto=Sun/Moon for person A to the foreground, which is what person A experiences.

This probably relates to a very intense consuming, maybe also a bit obsessive relating of person A to person B. A feeling of kathartic transformation of the soul and at the same time is probably experienced as extremely passionate, intense and fated.

Now, person B would not experience it this way.
In fact for them their Sun/Mercury-mp is triggered, which happens to be on the IC (or MC)

So the combination would be MC=Sun/Mercury, so for them it would be more about communication, sharing of thoughts etc.
It does depend also what Mercury rules, should mercury rule a relationship house that might be interesting.

However since person A`s pluto is there, of course person B experiences A as a very transformative, powerful influence. Since Pluto is on their IC, that reaches deep t scary.
But at the same time person A changes, intensifies, transforms, influences greatly person B´s way of thinking (Sun/Mercury-mp). While person A is feeling it more on a relational-emotional level (Sun/Moon-mp).

" would you only count the ic or would you also count the sun/mercury conjunction especially since the midpoint person has a planet at their midpoint?"
I would count it, but be aware that midpoints under one degree are stronger.


thanks ceri!!!

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 27, 2015 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very nice, Ceri. Can't wait to have more time to take another look at those...I think it's interesting to see a composed myth/theme in those. It's a great way to find your very own archetypes in one's chart

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Ceridwen
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posted January 28, 2015 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I find Sandbachs interpretations nicer than the traditional one. I really get tired of reading that Mars/Saturn=death-midpoint thing (my Sun is exactly square it btw).
http://johnsandbach.com/?page_id=7243

Sandbach has it spot on for me though

"Sun: Ones long-term goals are reached by focusing one’s energy in a practical and organized fashion. A lack of self-confidence which creates a fear of asserting oneself.

Mercury: One communicates in an assertively logical fashion. To speak with a concentrated aggressiveness. The fear of acting creates nervousness."


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Ceridwen
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posted January 28, 2015 06:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I find it interesting that he also includes Chiron, especially since Chiron is square my Sun/moon-mp natally (1°30)

Chiron: One has the ability to bring new aliveness to other people, and to revitalize whatever one comes in contact with. Healing by bringing to light the contents of the subconscious.


That sounds nice, well nicer than I suspected it before. lol


Chiron also aligns with my Moon/Mercury and Uranus/Pluto


Your energy helps other people to talk about and think about their feelings, and to be more connected to their emotions. You naturally induce a freer and warmer flow of interchange with others.

One’s vibration helps others to open up and to be more free, and even eventually to instigate profound changes in one’s life.

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Ceridwen
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posted January 28, 2015 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My natal midpoints
----------------------

Sun=Moon/Uranus 1°42 - a tad wide
Sun=Mars/Saturn 0°08
SunJupiter/Pluto 0°47
Sun = Saturn/ASC 1°03


Moon=Sun/Pluto 0°24
Moon= Sun/MC 1°39
Moon= Mercury/Pluto 0°02
Moon=Mars/Uranus 1°10


Mercury=Moon/Uranus 0°49
Mercury=Mars/Saturn 1°01
Mercury=Jupiter/Pluto 0°06

Venus = Sun/Saturn 0°19
Venus = Merucry/Saturn 0°07
Venus = Jupiter/Uranus 0°10
Venus = Pluto / MC 0°54


Mars=Venus/Uranus 1°26

Jupiter=Moon/MC 0°11
Jupiter=Neptune/Node 1°10


Saturn=Uranus/MC 1°13


Uranus = Moon/Saturn 0°40

Neptune = Moon/MC 1°05
Neptun e= Saturn/Uranus 0°49
Neptune = Node/ASC 1°21

ASC = Mars/Neptune 0°32
ASC= Mars/Node 0°39

MC= Sun/Saturn 1°29
MC = Mercury/Saturn 1°02
MC= Jupiter/Uranus 1°19

Node= Saturn/Uranus 1°01
Node= Moon/MC 0°52

Chiron=Uranus/Pluto 0°11
Chiron= Moon/Mercury 1°03
Chiron = Sun/Moon 1°29

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LeeLoo2014
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posted February 01, 2015 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Midpoint analysis is an amazing tool to create a profile, the "archetype" in the natal ( and the tools to achieve it), synastric compatibility or how someone impacts that archetype, their role in your life. It is also an awesome profiling for the composite.

Ceri, I found your description here about midpoints in the composite:

romantic attraction / affection / closeness
-------------------------------------------
Sun / Venus
Moon / Venus


physical attraction
---------------------
Sun / Mars
Venus / Mars
Moon / Mars (merging of physical and emotional attraction)


emotional and romanntic passion, sometimes control, posessiveness, jealousy, power issues; sometimes compulsive soulmate-feelings
-------------------------------
Moon / Pluto
Venus / Pluto


"magical" romantic feelings, feeling of unity, spiritual, feeling like soulmates, sometimes too dreamy and even deceptive
--------------------------------------
Moon / Neptune
Venus / Neptune


love at first sight
---------------------
Venus / Uranus


compulsive sexual attraction, sometimes destructive
---------------------------------------
Mars/Pluto

"feeling good" with each other, emotional pleasure
------------------------------------------
Moon / Jupiter
Venus / Jupiter


friendship, supportive
-----------------------
Sun / Jupiter
Mars / Jupiter


lastingness, bonding, but sometimes stifling, depressing, frustrating, blocking, could arouse the feeling of being rejected
-----------------------------------------
Sun/Saturn
Mars/Saturn

Moon/Saturn
Venus/Saturn

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/205455.html

I'm also linking the previous thread where we discussed midpoint clustering and synastry:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/001161.html

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Blind writer
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posted February 01, 2015 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blind writer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My natal midpoints. I included the VX and the big four asteroids (plus CHIRON). I have a fair number due to tight planet conjunctions in my chart.

SUN
---
VENUS-MARS 1°18'
JUPITER-AC 1°18'
JUPITER-SN 0°56'
SATURN-AC 0°30'
SATURN-SN 0°08'
URANUS-NEPTUNE 1°20'
NEPTUNE-MC 1°02'


MOON
---
MERCURY-VESTA 1°09'
MERCURY-VX 0°05'
MARS-CERES 0°50'
JUPITER-JUNO 2°30' (very wide)
SATURN-PLUTO 1°07'
SATURN-JUNO 1°41' (wide)
URANUS-VESTA 0°26'
URANUS-VX 0°48'
NEPTUNE-NN 0°49'
VESTA-MC 0°08'
VX-MC 1°06'


MERCURY
---
SUN-VENUS 0°22'
MERCURY-URANUS 0°43'
MERCURY-MC 1°01'
SN-VESTA 0°44'
SN-VX 0°31'
VESTA-AC 1°06'
VX-AC 0°09'


VENUS
---
SUN-SATURN 1°24'
MERCURY-PLUTO 1°17'
URANUS-PLUTO 0°34'
URANUS-JUNO 1°08'
PLUTO-MC 0°16'
JUNO-MC 0°50'


MARS
---
none


JUPITER
---
JUPITER-SATURN 0°48'
URANUS-NN 1°16'
NN-MC 0°58'


SATURN
---
VENUS-VESTA 0°26'
JUPITER-SATURN 0°48'


URANUS
---
SUN-VENUS 1°04'
MOON-MARS 0°41'
MERCURY-URANUS 0°43'
MERCURY-MC 0°25'
URANUS-MC 0°18'
SN-VX 0°55'
VX-AC 1°18'


NEPTUNE
---
CHIRON-CERES 1°04' (far point)


PLUTO
---
SUN-VESTA 0°10'
SUN-VX 1°05'
VENUS-JUPITER 0°00' - tightest major MP
VENUS-SATURN 0°48'
PLUTO-JUNO 0°34'


AC
---
SUN-PALLAS 1°07'
VENUS-CHIRON 0°09' (far point)


MC
---
SUN-VENUS 1°40' (wide)
MOON-MARS 0°05'
MERCURY-URANUS 1°19'
MERCURY-MC 1°01'
URANUS-MC 0°18'
SN-VX 1°31'


NN/SN ("skipped step")
---
VENUS-CHIRON 0°36'


CHIRON
---
SUN-MOON 0°53' (far point)
JUPITER-NEPTUNE 0°31' (far point)
SATURN-NEPTUNE 0°17' (far point)
NN-SN 1°22'

====================

I'll get around to the degree clusters in a little while, when I've got the time. But having CHIRON opp my VENUS, as a skipped step, and at my SUN-MOON MP is no fun.

Composite MP degrees will hafta be done manually, boo.

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Ceridwen
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posted February 01, 2015 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I forgot I did that list. but quite handy. lol

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