posted February 17, 2015 05:48 PM            

... if the AVX is essentially about the self-containment of whatever point it touches, (which I've yet to see, personally) then how is this to operate in terms of relationships?

Would we incorporate the Sidereal AVX for the karmic perspective? The Draco AVX for the soul-centred interpretation? And so on.

posted February 17, 2015 06:09 PM            

The Vertex relates to unexpected fated experiences, that open our eyes to new possibilities.

The Antivertex relates to expected fated experiences, where something we suspected or hoped for all along takes place.

Conjunctions to the Antivertex indicate that the person in question shows us things we suspected were true, or gives us something we have previously hoped for, in a fated syncronistic way. Connections to the Antivertex confirm our preconceptions. If we have preconceptions about what our ideal mate is supposed to be like, a person hitting our Antivertex can represent that (at least with respect to the planet on our Antivertex).

This is different form what happens at the Vertex, where potentials we've never really considered before blindside us with some type of unexpected twist of fate. In love relationships conjunctions to the Vertex give us perspective altering surprises in a fated, syncronistic type of way.

posted February 17, 2015 06:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
The Vertex Axis as a whole relates to fated experiences.

The Vertex relates to unexpected fated experiences, that open our eyes to new possibilities.

The Antivertex relates to expected fated experiences, where something we suspected or hoped for all along takes place.

Conjunctions to the Antivertex indicate that the person in question shows us things we suspected were true, or gives us something we have previously hoped for, in a fated syncronistic way. Connections to the Antivertex confirm our preconceptions. If we have preconceptions about what our ideal mate is supposed to be like, a person hitting our Antivertex can represent that (at least with respect to the planet on our Antivertex).

This is different form what happens at the Vertex, where potentials we've never really considered before blindside us with some type of unexpected twist of fate. In love relationships conjunctions to the Vertex give us perspective altering surprises in a fated, syncronistic type of way.

The main difference between the Vertex and the Antivertex seems to concern how the unexpected (crazy surprises) contributes to our fate, versus how the expected (our suspicions and hopes) contributes to our fate.

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I agree 100%, Lotis. That's exactly how I've seen the Vertices, since I began studying them in the '90s. Thank you for confirming.

AVX has always felt like 'wish-fulfillment' whereas the VX can have such an impacting bolt-from-the-blue sense, it feels undoubtedly fated, but unexpected.

posted February 17, 2015 06:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I agree 100%, Lotis. That's exactly how I've seen the Vertices, since I began studying them in the '90s. Thank you for confirming.

AVX has always felt like 'wish-fulfillment' whereas the VX can have such an impacting bolt-from-the-blue sense, it feels undoubtedly fated, but unexpected.

I was a bit thrown by the notion that the AVX is a point of 'self-containment' in a chart. It seems contrary to synastry, since it's indicating a preference for solitary activity or lack of involvement. And yet, when someone hits our AVX, it's even less expected than the VX? That just doesn't jive with me -- and goes against the bulk of my research / work on the subject.

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Wow! I'm so glad someone else has noticed what I've noticed!

I think because the AVX is close to the Asc that it's thought of has a type of Asc. I think this is partly true. The Avx shows what we suspect our fated path is going to entail. Our fated path as we envision it involves not just ourselves, but also the type of people we've always suspected we were supposed to meet. In love relationships this seems to be a 'wish-fulfillment' thing, just like what you said. The the Avx is where we walk our fated path as we've envisioned it to be, and connect with people we've half expected to connect with. It's not self-contained at all.

I think the Vx is the opposite. Here it's like we have fated experiences where we are changed by others and external events. I think the Vx is like an Dsc in the sense that we are influenced or coaxed towards stepping outside of our own expectations when something or someone touches this point. We might not have envisioned what the Vx has to offer us, but once we recognize the opportunity for what it is our expectations can change fit our new reality. The Vx seems to divert us from our expected path, and alter us in some way. We are convinced by others and external weird happenings to try a new take on things.

A Vertex story would be... A girl grows up thinking she wants to be a nun, and then she winds up becoming a fashion model (due to vertex synastry and transits). With the Vertex we get fateful unexpected opportunities, and unexpected solutions.

posted February 17, 2015 09:18 PM            

The other person and I are not together, but that person has set the standard for how I should feel before I ever get involved again.

I was in a serious committed relationship when I met the person mentioned above, let me call him V. My interaction with V helped me to realize I wasn't being true to myself in my partnering choice (Vertex?), and that if I met my dream partner once in real life, then either he is the one, or it can happen again (Anti-Vertex?).

I'll also add that (and this is not synastry) in 2010 tPluto aligned with my Vertex. I did meet someone who changed the way I saw things. I was already changing the way I live my life, and my outward appearance as well. These were positive changes. I was making the changes because they were the healthy thing to do. The person that came into my life during the Pluto transit, brought love. To work with the nun analogy, it was as if I had entered the convent for respectable reasons. I was living the life and it was a good healthy life. Enter this new person, and I learn about loving my devotion. He opens my eyes to pure love.

posted February 17, 2015 09:20 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Liliya:
Are we discussing Natal or relationship charts too?

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Hi Liliya,

posted February 17, 2015 09:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
Hi Liliya,

I think it is a synastry discussion, but it seems like because of the complex nature of the Vertex/Anti-Vertex, the natal is also being discussed (?).

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Thank you.

Yeah, I saw your post after mine, and felt kinda silly

posted February 17, 2015 10:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I agree 100%, Lotis. That's exactly how I've seen the Vertices, since I began studying them in the '90s. Thank you for confirming.

AVX has always felt like 'wish-fulfillment' whereas the VX can have such an impacting bolt-from-the-blue sense, it feels undoubtedly fated, but unexpected.

I was a bit thrown by the notion that the AVX is a point of 'self-containment' in a chart. It seems contrary to synastry, since it's indicating a preference for solitary activity or lack of involvement. And yet, when someone hits our AVX, it's even less expected than the VX? That just doesn't jive with me -- and goes against the bulk of my research / work on the subject.

---

Somehow this has been misunderstood.
It's not a solitary point or lack of involvement it's the opposite of that!
It's a point of so much involvement that you cannot be just shallowly involved, anything less than being inspired by something so much greater than us is unacceptable.
You cannot have shallow involvement with what conjuncts this point.
It means so much to you and you feel so deeply that anything that is not at the same level and depth that you are regarding this, feels fake and is repulsive to you. The deeper you grow, the more inspired you become the more intense the desire to accept only truly evolved situations, relations or whatever it is that's aspecting this point.
I would think a monk who choses a life of solitary or someone who goes off alone to devote all their energy to finding life's higher meaning might have Neptune conjunct this point.
They become so involved with this that it takes over their entire being and human needs become second to them being this higher cause.

I feel this place very deeply!
Libra Venus and Destin conjunct Anti-Vertex in my 1st house,
Venus my Chart ruler
Venus conjunct Pluto
Pluto conjunct AC 3 degree
Venus is 12 degrees from my AC

I listed my aspects because I have a personal insight on how this feels.
I love so deeply it hurts to have a shallow love, it hurts more than being alone. I find love in everything and I don't need something fake just to have that "human way" that love is expressed. It would be fun and nice but having a fake version of that love would feel like a stumbling block, something id have to overcome, it would be a drain on my ability to love and make it harder for me to continue growing.
I hope that makes sense??

posted February 17, 2015 10:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lotis White:
Wow! I'm so glad someone else has noticed what I've noticed!

I think because the AVX is close to the Asc that it's thought of has a type of Asc. I think this is partly true. The Avx shows what we suspect our fated path is going to entail. Our fated path as we envision it involves not just ourselves, but also the type of people we've always suspected we were supposed to meet. In love relationships this seems to be a 'wish-fulfillment' thing, just like what you said. The the Avx is where we walk our fated path as we've envisioned it to be, and connect with people we've half expected to connect with. It's not self-contained at all.

I think the Vx is the opposite. Here it's like we have fated experiences where we are changed by others and external events. I think the Vx is like an Dsc in the sense that we are influenced or coaxed towards stepping outside of our own expectations when something or someone touches this point. We might not have envisioned what the Vx has to offer us, but once we recognize the opportunity for what it is our expectations can change fit our new reality. The Vx seems to divert us from our expected path, and alter us in some way. We are convinced by others and external weird happenings to try a new take on things.

A Vertex story would be... A girl grows up thinking she wants to be a nun, and then she winds up becoming a fashion model (due to vertex synastry and transits). With the Vertex we get fateful unexpected opportunities, and unexpected solutions.

An Antivertex story would be... A girl grows up longing to be a fashion model, and she winds up becoming one (due to Antivertex synastry and transits). With the Antivertex we get fateful expected opportunities, and pre-considered solutions. Yeah, like a dream coming true.

---

Bingo. All of the above. Thank you for clarifying. I was intrigued by the 'self-containment' notion, but I really think it's more derived from the 'secondary ASC' presumption of the AVX's operation. And, like you've said, I feel there's some truth to that -- but not in the sense that it's so wholly opposed to the VERTEX that it no longer operates in a 'fated events' context.

You'll get a kick out of this.

When I finally wrote the conclusion to a story that had been in development in fits and starts for 15 years, tJUPITER had just conjoined the tSUN on my nAVX. 0º00! I'd literally typed 'the end' when the conjunction happened. Granted, that's a person with a screenplay; how could it not be considered 'self-contained'.

SO many things had 'conspired' to allow me to write this story, building and evolving over time. It's almost collaborative in that sense. All of these experiences brought it to bear across many years.

The day I actually wrote the ending was the ultimate culmination. And, in my book, the APEX of wish fulfillment. Amazing opportunities then followed, which would allow it to finally see real development here in the industry.

It wasn't unexpected, because I'd been working towards that goal for awhile. I happened to notice to coming to fruition on the day the tSUN was going to hit my nAVX, and I thought, 'well, this'll certainly help me better understand what's up with that point.' Along with the tJUPITER, it was a magical day, and a potent week. I was networking like mad and making the greatest connexions.

This year, the New MOON was in 0º AQU, which hits my VERTEX 0º. It was a powerful day, too, but more the likes of which had me paying close attention to what messages, signs, and signals might be coming through.

I was a walk-in at an urgent care to get an issue that had suddenly crept up in regards to my medical care -- nothing serious, but with a long-term impact. This was an issue that had been resolved, incidentally, before this happened. I was pretty frantic, and, this was my last ditch effort. I ended up getting in to see a doctor who, unfortunately, couldn't help me -- but -- he said that one of the regular doctors could, and, so long as I didn't mind registering as a new patient, he could see if he could squeeze me in. AMAZING. He did so. I remain completely grateful. But, my new doctor (who's absolutely incredible!) wouldn't be back from lunch for an hour, so my husband and I took a walk to find a restaurant to stop for lunch, and even ended up stumbling into a cheese counter at a local grocer that has the best Grand Margaux triple creme Brie I've ever had.

Then, as I'm walking back to the clinic, we end up on the wrong side, in the driveway. It's 12:34 -- which is always a cool time for me. There's something shiny in the road, right by my foot. I mention it, but my husband isn't really listening; he's more paying attention to the fact that we're at the wrong entrance. I almost walk by it, but then decide to stop. I pick it up. It's a bright clear faceted stone -- a solitaire pendant, that's been run over, maybe even more than once, and the prong that allows it to hang straight on a chain is bent. The stone itself is fine; it's a little loose in the setting.

My immediate thought was, 'this could be real,' and I wanted to deliver it back to its owner somehow. But the offices where we were were closed. There's no telling how long it had been there, and my doctor's office was on the other side; they'd have no clue, either. So, I just picked it up, and thought, well, if it's meant to be it will be.

Turns out I now own, for the first time in my life, a real, brilliant cut round 1.25 carat diamond solitaire. I deliberately refuse to buy diamonds for all of the reasons one can imagine: just so, so expensive, and who knows who might've suffered in the process? But, hey, I'm a Libran. We Venus girls do love beautiful, brilliant, sparkly things!

And, ohhhh, how it does shimmer, sparkle, and shine.

I'm having my trusted family jeweller set it for me as a diamond solitaire ring which I can wear with my combo wedding/engagement ring (long, looooong story on that one).

So, I ended up with an amazing doctor, AND a diamond!

posted February 17, 2015 11:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Somehow this has been misunderstood.
It's not a solitary point or lack of involvement it's the opposite of that!
It's a point of so much involvement that you cannot be just shallowly involved, anything less than being inspired by something so much greater than us is unacceptable.
You cannot have shallow involvement with what conjuncts this point.
It means so much to you and you feel so deeply that anything that is not at the same level and depth that you are regarding this, feels fake and is repulsive to you. The deeper you grow, the more inspired you become the more intense the desire to accept only truly evolved situations, relations or whatever it is that's aspecting this point.
I would think a monk who choses a life of solitary or someone who goes off alone to devote all their energy to finding life's higher meaning might have Neptune conjunct this point.
They become so involved with this that it takes over their entire being and human needs become second to them being this higher cause.

I feel this place very deeply!
Libra Venus and Destin conjunct Anti-Vertex in my 1st house,
Venus my Chart ruler
Venus conjunct Pluto
Pluto conjunct AC
Venus 12 degrees from being on my AC

I listed my aspects because I have a personal insight on how this feels.
I love so deeply it hurts to have a shallow love, it hurts more than being alone. I find love in everything and I don't need something fake just to have that "human way" that love is expressed. It would be fun and nice but having a fake version of that love would feel like a stumbling block, something id have to overcome, it would be a drain on my ability to love and make it harder for me to continue growing.
I hope that makes sense??

Not sure how Draco plays out but my Draco Vertex is leo@29.40....

---

It does, Gabby. Thanks for sharing your experiences with it.

posted February 17, 2015 11:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
It does, Gabby. Thanks for sharing your experiences with it.

I guess mine have simply only been via transit, or involving the VX. Seems that in synastry the AVX just doesn't seem to have that sort of impact. Which is rather bizarre. I've certainly felt ALL of that. But, for me, it's just not AVX-related.

---

True, in synastry planets hitting this point in my chart have never produced like I would have thought.
I recently broke up with a guy who's Pluto was exact conjunct my Venus.
I would have thought this would be "fire works lighting up the sky" type aspect....but no, he was just another lost soul that wanted to act out and blame his childhood for his bad behavior. Ugh! What a disappointment!

posted February 17, 2015 11:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
True, in synastry planets hitting this point in my chart have never produced like I would have thought.
I recently broke up with a guy who's Pluto was exact conjunct my Venus.
I would have thought this would be "fire works lighting up the sky" type aspect....but no, he was just another lost soul that wanted to act out and blame his childhood for his bad behavior. Ugh! What a disappointment!

---

posted February 17, 2015 11:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Hey, I have a corneal abrasion in my left eye as a subtle reminder that VENUS conjunct MARS (1º30) and PLUTO opposite VENUS (0º) ain't all it's cracked up to be, either. We live and learn, right?

---

posted February 18, 2015 01:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

When I finally wrote the conclusion to a story that had been in development in fits and starts for 15 years, tJUPITER had just conjoined the tSUN on my nAVX. 0º00! I'd literally typed 'the end' when the conjunction happened. Granted, that's a person with a screenplay; how could it not be considered 'self-contained'.

SO many things had 'conspired' to allow me to write this story, building and evolving over time. It's almost collaborative in that sense. All of these experiences brought it to bear across many years.

The day I actually wrote the ending was the ultimate culmination. And, in my book, the APEX of wish fulfillment. Amazing opportunities then followed, which would allow it to finally see real development here in the industry.

It wasn't unexpected, because I'd been working towards that goal for awhile. I happened to notice to coming to fruition on the day the tSUN was going to hit my nAVX, and I thought, 'well, this'll certainly help me better understand what's up with that point.' Along with the tJUPITER, it was a magical day, and a potent week. I was networking like mad and making the greatest connexions.

This year, the New MOON was in 0º AQU, which hits my VERTEX 0º. It was a powerful day, too, but more the likes of which had me paying close attention to what messages, signs, and signals might be coming through.

I was a walk-in at an urgent care to get an issue that had suddenly crept up in regards to my medical care -- nothing serious, but with a long-term impact. This was an issue that had been resolved, incidentally, before this happened. I was pretty frantic, and, this was my last ditch effort. I ended up getting in to see a doctor who, unfortunately, couldn't help me -- but -- he said that one of the regular doctors could, and, so long as I didn't mind registering as a new patient, he could see if he could squeeze me in. AMAZING. He did so. I remain completely grateful. But, my new doctor (who's absolutely incredible!) wouldn't be back from lunch for an hour, so my husband and I took a walk to find a restaurant to stop for lunch, and even ended up stumbling into a cheese counter at a local grocer that has the best Grand Margaux triple creme Brie I've ever had.

Then, as I'm walking back to the clinic, we end up on the wrong side, in the driveway. It's 12:34 -- which is always a cool time for me. There's something shiny in the road, right by my foot. I mention it, but my husband isn't really listening; he's more paying attention to the fact that we're at the wrong entrance. I almost walk by it, but then decide to stop. I pick it up. It's a bright clear faceted stone -- a solitaire pendant, that's been run over, maybe even more than once, and the prong that allows it to hang straight on a chain is bent. The stone itself is fine; it's a little loose in the setting.

My immediate thought was, 'this could be real,' and I wanted to deliver it back to its owner somehow. But the offices where we were were closed. There's no telling how long it had been there, and my doctor's office was on the other side; they'd have no clue, either. So, I just picked it up, and thought, well, if it's meant to be it will be.

Turns out I now own, for the first time in my life, a real, brilliant cut round 1.25 carat diamond solitaire. I deliberately refuse to buy diamonds for all of the reasons one can imagine: just so, so expensive, and who knows who might've suffered in the process? But, hey, I'm a Libran. We Venus girls do love beautiful, brilliant, sparkly things!

And, ohhhh, how it does shimmer, sparkle, and shine.

I'm having my trusted family jeweller set it for me as a diamond solitaire ring which I can wear with my combo wedding/engagement ring (long, looooong story on that one).

So, I ended up with an amazing doctor, AND a diamond!

THAT, my friends, is the [b]VERTEX at work![/B]

---

These are good examples, I totally see the correlation between Vx and Avx in these examples.

Finally coming up with the end to a story you knew you were going to write anyway, and making connections needed to get your story out (which was a goal all along), fits well with the Avx bringing us what we hoped for in a syncronistic way.

Unexpectedly connecting with the right doctor, and finding a diamond on the road (especially when, as you say, you would never buy diamonds yourself), fits very well with a Vx synchronicity. Something surprising comes to us in 'fated' way.

posted February 18, 2015 03:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Would we incorporate the Sidereal AVX for the karmic perspective?

---