posted July 12, 2015 07:18 PM            

I've a Kite in my chart, formed by a grand trine between Chiron, Pluto-Mercury, and my North Node, with the opposition (to chiron) coming from my Moon-Neptune conjunction...

My present romantic/soul-teaching/difficult/wonderful/diiiifficult/still pretty nice but darn, difficult relationship activates this kite, with his moon conjunct my chiron, opposite my moon-Neptune, and trine my pluto-mercury and North node.

It's... intense. It feels like his moon is raking along the exposed vulnerable chiron going look, look! Work on this! And I'm like owwww, owwww, my heart! It is so painful. Physically painful in my heart, just like my last relationship where it was his North Node on the chiron.. same feeling. The last one was definitely irredeemable and now I'm wondering about this one of course. The difference is that this person is still emotionally present and at least somewhat willing to work on things with me, whereas the last was impossible to talk to... mostly because he ****** up so badly... On purpose... and couldn't face it at all.

But at the end of the painful conversations/incidents/revelations I'm integrating the lessons and grateful for what I've been shown (I think)... feeling more space in my heart chakra and a new groundedness and self awareness... I'm learning not to take everything so personally.. I'm learning to TRULY give a f about the emotional reality he is experiencing--something i haven't honestly been mature enough to really do in my past relationships which involved passion and attachment issues, where I was too blinded by my own need to truly see through my pain to their being ness... learning to honour his experience but still maintain boundaries and identify cruelty... This is tricky though because it really hurts to be facing our insensitive Mercury aspects and his sagittarius South node being all blunt.. my sensitive moon-Neptune is aching... He grew up in an abusive household and I was mainly molly coddled... Well it wasn't all easy but it wasn't what he got that's for sure... I probably alternately make too many excuses for others and overreact...

Especially as his moon is the same planet as one of the ones forming the opposition... It really is highlighting my natal moon/chiron opposition and catalyzing what is turning out to be an often uncomfortable amount of growth and healing (this is healing, riiight?).

posted July 12, 2015 08:00 PM            

The synastry (I'm KP)

posted July 12, 2015 08:15 PM            

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted July 12, 2015 08:21 PM            

You can hurt because of the ways in which you're seeing you don't 'measure up' to your internal ideal, but it should never be -- how to put this -- paraded in front of you, or used in a way that makes you hurt.

posted July 12, 2015 09:02 PM            

quote:

---

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/000093.html

---

posted July 12, 2015 11:30 PM            

The angles are of great importance as part of patterns, yes, maybe even more than planets. Because then the whole configuration will sit on an angle.

posted July 13, 2015 12:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by FmVenusWLove:
From the other thread:

[b] The angles are of great importance as part of patterns, yes, maybe even more than planets. Because then the whole configuration will sit on an angle.

Would this also include the Vertex if it completed a Grand Cross for someone in synastry? Didn't see anything mentioned specifically about the vertex/anti-vertex axis (at least from reading up to page 7, lol). Is it just as important as the AC/DC/MC/IC or is it more minor?[/B]

---

posted July 13, 2015 02:11 AM            

So his mars is on his MC and my MC, in proud, proud Leo, being right aaall the time. Natally my Pluto is in my 1st house in Scorpio (square my MC--and his Mars of course) conjunct my Mercury, yknow?

So intense...

posted July 13, 2015 05:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
I say NN/SN and Vx/aVx are every bit as important as AC/DC/MC/IC. But its also going to depend on how strongly those are in your chart to begin with.

---

Yes but the NN-SN has a bit of a more "growing" effect. It might not be as obvious when you first meet (but will be very important, even if on a below-surface-level).
The Vertex/Antivertex is like lighenting striking you down.

posted July 13, 2015 06:27 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
yungang_grotto,

what you describe sounds more like an effect of your synastric Mercury-Mars hard aspect double whammy (square/opposition), which in the case of the square is merely being "enhanced" by Pluto. Don't underestimate the effect of Mercury strain (and you don't have an aspect between your natal Mercuries, indicating fairly different modes of communication.) Fighting over watering the plants in any case is not something I would connect with Mars-Pluto hard aspects

I can relate; my SO and I have opposed Mercuries (me Gemini, him, Sagittarius) and on top of that, my Neptune is conj. his Merc and his Neptune, opposite mine. Also, Merc is my 8H Ruler, Neptune, his 8H Ruler….so what happens in practice is that sometimes we have this otherworldly ESP-type communication flow, astral communication even, and sometimes, the weirdest f!ck-ups which initially caused a lot of friction - things like: "Why weren't you there yesterday when we were to meet?" and the other would be like: "YESTERDAY? What do you mean, I thought it's tomorrow….?" And nobody would be able to say for sure what was initially agreed upon. The remedy to this sort of thing was not making assumptions; spelling out practical details clearly, preferably in writing (text messages, mails), and giving a gentle reminder ahead of time in case of important things. Most important, never to assume bad intentions and always to be mindful of the possibility it was one of those Neptune fog events (and most often it afterwards turned out it indeed was). If I were you I'd study Mars-Merc aspect manifestations closely, in other words...

---

Yes, and I forgot to add this to your aspect interpretation, I only looked at the whole conglomerate, but Mercury/Mars is prone to fighting or very energetic verbal/physical interaction.
Let's not forget both Mars and Mercury rule "movement" so everything moving is also enhanced, becomes much faster or more energetic, for good or bad.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted July 13, 2015 06:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes but the NN-SN has a bit of a more "growing" effect. It might not be as obvious when you first meet (but will be very important, even if on a below-surface-level).
The Vertex/Antivertex is like lighenting striking you down.

The angles however are the skeleton of your chart and it them who really anchor the planets into earthly manifestation, ro to put it more simply, they determine how and where you will experience the aspects, as they are the lenses through which you look at the sky and experience the aspects, spanning the net of houses over your chart.

---

Also mentioning that planets on the Vertex axis or Vertex/angle contacts are however of great importance, they are a constant marker in significant synastries.
------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted July 13, 2015 08:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vajra:
yungang_grotto,

what you describe sounds more like an effect of your synastric Mercury-Mars hard aspect double whammy (square/opposition), which in the case of the square is merely being "enhanced" by Pluto. Don't underestimate the effect of Mercury strain (and you don't have an aspect between your natal Mercuries, indicating fairly different modes of communication.) Fighting over watering the plants in any case is not something I would connect with Mars-Pluto hard aspects

---

I totally hear you and until last night I was actually blaming the Mercury aspects whole hog... However, I have been reading accounts of mars-pluto hard aspects and they are described as petty fighting too... But that which is based on control issues, and rather insidious and cutting (especially from mars *grr* lol... and competitive) not mere misunderstandings, and in this case it is all rolled into one... The pluto-mars square is exact I'm afraid, and falls along our midheaven axis...

But I can see how it might just be enhancing this Mercury thang--I guess--still, with it being described as one of the most intense and, frankly, awful, synastry aspects I am having trouble viewing it as secondary Trying not to view things in good/bad, black/white, but I snapped last night and my pluto (or was it my saturn square his merc? or my mars? urgh) dug up something really mean to say in response to his plant watering comment and I'm just worried about things I literally can't control--it was out of my mouth before I could even think ("are you stupid?" I said to him ). I apologized and made no excuses and made it clear I didn't mean it... But I guess my Saturn, judging his Mercury harshly, did get it from somewhere... And mars retaliated and Pluto just went for it... Oh an uranus is in there too, Squaring his Mercury... My Mars is no catfish either I guess, at 0 Aries, so I do see where you're coming from... Anyway...

Our Mercuries actually do aspect one another; it is a novile, 0'13 applying, and the closest orb of any aspect to his Mercury between our charts. I feel like this is significant somehow, like there's something similar after all, or something profound for us both to learn about communication given the significance of the 9th harmonic chart...

Interestingly too, given the discussion of the vertex being 'like lightning striking you down,' we have mars conjunct vertex in composite, and that vertex is trine our composite moon at 0'00... I dunno.

posted July 13, 2015 11:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
noticed his karma is conjunct his mars/my mc. That's good I guess, makes me feel like my sense that I have something to teach him is correct...

---

Ooof. I had KARMA-SNODE conjunct my MARS-MOON before.

I wouldn't say it's about teaching as much as it's being hooked into their karma, meaning something is outstanding. He feels that I owe him a degree of fame, in my field, as it's all on his MC, too; that he won't be successful without me.

My KARMA is conjunct my boyfriend's SNODE exactly. That's an interesting combination; we share things at that level. I'm not sure whose karma it is, per se -- it's likely shared. But his KARMA-VENUS is on my NNODE, so I clearly need to incorporate his understanding of Leonine traits to optimise my soul's lessons for greatest evolution.

posted July 13, 2015 12:10 PM            

Not to mention, his chart has a huge stellium of nearly nine points (it gets ridiculous) across the degrees of 14° to 19° Taurus, meaning all their Midpoints are 0° conjunct my CHIRON: not only the yod apex, but also my skipped step!

There's been quite a lot of confronting deeply buried issues and healing negative patterns. It's just been constructively and with love and compassion. What a huge difference that makes!

His yod is a little different. MOON is the apex (with NYMPHE-BML) with NEPTUNE and URA-PLUTO on the legs. Of course it's his T-Square that's quite the business, shall we say. Heh! MOON-MERC-MARS. In a less evolved person, I can't imagine. Honestly.

posted July 14, 2015 04:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
I say NN/SN and Vx/aVx are every bit as important as AC/DC/MC/IC. But its also going to depend on how strongly those are in your chart to begin with.

---

Very interesting.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The angles however are the skeleton of your chart and it them who really anchor the planets into earthly manifestation, ro to put it more simply, they determine how and where you will experience the aspects, as they are the lenses through which you look at the sky and experience the aspects, spanning the net of houses over your chart.

---

What a beautiful explanation. I'm not always sure how to interpret angles. Some astrologers seem to say that VX/AVX/NN/SN aren't as important..but I may be reading old information. I haven't been very methodical in my research admittedly so this is probably the case. I'm just starting to scratch the surface of what these points represent in a chart - thanks for putting this into perspective

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I give most importance to aspects, when one or mroe planets will be conjunct (only the conjunct) the angles, as these will take centre stage and be very much in the foreground.
And in a second step I also take into account if there are aspects where planets conjunct the Vertex/Antivertex and/ or nodal axis.
Those are the aspects bringing the heavenly aspects (after all planets are all up in the sky) in touch with earth (which is what hte calculated points are about) and therefore our here-and-now-experience.

---

Interesting. I have a question then: Would you consider the Vx as part of a natal T-Square if it opposed Neptune (3 degrees) and both squared Jupiter (4 degrees)? Or would you only consider the AVx Conjunct Neptune...even though that's a wider orb?

posted July 16, 2015 10:28 PM            

I think there's a whole lot of energy and direction in this relationship and although last week I was so annoyed I wanted to throw in the towel I am realizing that this relationship is really important for its capacity to activate the energies of my chart.. And I really signed up for it at some point, despite my discomfort....

In our composite Kite we have

Juno
Jupiter-Ceres
South Node-Ascendant-Pluto(chart ruler)

trine

and the opposition is of course to the north node at the descendant axis...

In his natal chart he has his moon on that juno, I have my chiron there... his juno is on the north node (my descendant is there), his black moon lilith on the jupiter/ceres conjunction (my north node is there), his Saturn-Pluto-Ascendant on the composite south node-ascendant-pluto... And right there is my Ascendant-Vesta.

Aaaand there is another Kite in our composite, formed by the same Grand trine but with the opposition being made from the composite Juno (my chiron, his moon), across to the composite neptune, and my moon-neptune conjunction.. so of course all this is on my natal kite.