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Author
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Topic: Why the emphasis on outer planets in synastry?
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wheresthemoon
Knowflake Posts: 623
From: Texas
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted September 06, 2015 12:41 PM
  
I'm interested in this. Why do you guys put so much emphasis on outer planets (especially Pluto) in synastry? What I find interesting is that I've read many times Pluto always "has the upper hand" in synastry. I feel very much the opposite. I think the planet person usually has the upper hand. If Pluto always has the upper hand, with it being so slow moving, there is an entire generation of people who would have the upper hand with a particular person whose planet aspects a particular sign/degree. For instance, I have a natal Venus Pluto opposition. This means that everyone born within a couple years of me would be the pluto person in our relationship. But I always felt like I had more power. Probably because with my Venus aspecting the Pluto of so many people, I was used to the energy. However, for the Pluto person, the energy from me would be a new feeling or at least a rare one. Similarly, I've met a guy recently whose moon was conjunct my Pluto. For me the energy was intense. He intrigued me and I felt somewhat addicted from day one. He seemed to hold more power in the interaction, being that I was very likely one of many he'd experienced the aspect with. I didn't like that feeling of vulnerability and quickly pulled away and weened myself off of him. Which I suppose is very Plutonian, but I only did it because I didn't want to be the weaker one...the one who needed him when he obviously didn't need me. My moon is conjunct Neptune with many many people who are 5 - 6 years older than me. I feel it more with these people simply because until recently I'd never dated anyone that much older than me, but I imagine soon, if I keep dating within this age range I wouldn't feel it as much. I would get used to the Neptune energy and it wouldn't be anything new to me. But I, the planet person, would nearly always be a new experience for them. Am I making any sense? What is the logic behind assigning so much "power" to Pluto when the Pluto person is just one of a million? IP: Logged |
athenaia
Knowflake Posts: 162
From: USA
Registered: May 2015
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posted September 06, 2015 02:50 PM
I agree completely with you. It is a bit goofy to assign too much weight to an outer planet (the slowest of them all, at that) when someone only dates people within their generation (1 to 9 years). If the orb is within 0-2 degrees (not Pluto-to-Pluto but NN to Pluto or Moon to Pluto)... that's a different story altogether. Its only really exceptional when the OP is dating intergenerationally - say a mid-range Pluto in Scorpio with a Libra moon dating someone with an early degree Pluto in Libra who also happens to have Venus in Scorpio at 15 degrees (then that would be a true-blue DW to me). Or a Virgo ASC who happened to have incredible chemistry with someone from the Pluto in Virgo generation within 5 degrees of their ASC. IP: Logged |
FmVenusWLove
Knowflake Posts: 187
From: It's cold here
Registered: Jan 2015
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posted September 06, 2015 05:18 PM
I found a previous thread on LL about this topic. There are a few different ideas, but it seems that most people agreed that outer/inner planet aspects should not be discounted entirely, but other aspects should be looked at first. I'm paraphrasing here, but house overlays were seen as significant and personal midpoints to outer planets were viewed as being more significant. Additionally, a small orb was used when looking at outer planets in order to judge whether or not aspects would be felt in that relationship. Here's the thread: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/010221.html In Rod Suskin's book, Synastry: Understanding the Astrology of Relationships, he writes this about outer/outer planet contacts (which are generational): "...Aspects made between one outer planet and another are less pertinent to the everyday details of a relationship, but as the relationship becomes more committed and longer-lasting these aspects can be used to understand individual growth patterns and karmic lessons." When talking about inner/outer contacts, he claims it is important to note that: "...The majority of relationships take place among people of a similar age. For that reason, each of the outer planets in a chart is usually very close to the position of the same planet in the partner's chart. Therefore, many of the aspects between the outer planets of one chart and the planets of a partner's chart are the same...It is easy to unintentionally give the clients a sense they are dealing with karmic issues of huge proportions when realistically these could be issues they have been familiar with all their lives and are possibly pretty ordinary." Hope that was interesting. I'm curious if any one else knows of another book/has information on this topic. IP: Logged |
starmoon
Knowflake Posts: 1746
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted September 07, 2015 01:03 AM
pluto rules scorpio. in synastry we'd be interested in the planet ruling scorpio because that is what a romantic relationship will have a lot of - sex, passion, lies, manipulations, etc. things we associate with 8th house/pluto/scorpio. uranus and neptune aren't ruling sexual houses. of course very small orbs make a difference - i also come upon many men who have pluto close to my venus, but at various degrees... the men are the same age, but some conjunct my venus by 0-1 degree and others by 6 or 7+. you'd look at the closer contacts and disregard the wider ones. you also look at the house overlays, which will make pluto more/less important. pluto has 'the upper hand' because it generally becomes the obsessive person in the relationship and takes control - not always the case, but more often than not. the energy can be new to them, which makes them react quite strongly towards the other person. if someone has never experienced pluto contacts in synastry they can be very affected by them, because it brings forth a passionate energy, moreso than the other outer planets. once someone experiences that pluto-planet connection it's very heady and so.. pluto gets a reputation for being greater somehow than the other outer planets. the pluto person won't always be powerful because there are natal chart factors that could inhibit that. for example, i dated a man who i had a venus-pluto exact conjunction with, but he was the weaker partner because of his own natal placements. the dynamic will be different in every pluto relationship because you're bringing together two whole charts, not one aspectIP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 12968
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted September 07, 2015 10:10 AM
Maybe if you think of the planets like flashlights...the ones up close only illuminate a small area, like a face...the further away a flashlight is, the dimmer it gets, but it also has a bigger effect, lighting up a larger area, like the whole body, within a room. quote:
My moon is conjunct Neptune with many many people who are 5 - 6 years older than me. I feel it more with these people simply because until recently I'd never dated anyone that much older than me, but I imagine soon, if I keep dating within this age range I wouldn't feel it as much. I would get used to the Neptune energy and it wouldn't be anything new to me. But I, the planet person, would nearly always be a new experience for them.
I have Venus conjunct Neptune. Even though it's wide, 6 degrees, I believe this aspect had a significant effect on my interactions with classmates. In Venus-Neptune synastry, the Neptune person is initially attracted, but also usually does the rejecting in the end. So the power shifts here, from the planet person to the outer planet person, if "power" is taken to mean, "the ability to reject." (That's a line from the movie Ghosts of Girlfriends Past, I think: "Whoever cares less has all the power." I guess so.) Cafeastrology describes this dynamic perfectly, in case anyone's interested: http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/venus_neptune_aspects.html But it's true, I wasn't even aware of this energy until I studied astrology...and it's taken me a while to learn how the different outer planets feel. Now I really do start to get a strong sense of being in "familiar waters" when I'm talking to someone whose Neptune and Pluto are conjunct mine, in Sag and Libra respectively...and I get a wholly different feeling from the other Plutos, than I get from Libra Pluto. With a range of experience and knowledge about how the outer planets feel, NOW I am getting a much clearer sense of how the synastry is working. For instance, my Pluto is conjunct my husband's moon. That used to just be a dead fact to me, or a +1 on the synastry scorecard, with no qualitative analysis behind it. But now I see how my Pluto insists on balance, and sort of monopolizes his moon accordingly. What is simply a matter of emotional preference to him feels almost like life and death to me. So we are working together towards ideals that pay him back emotionally and personally, but it feels like second nature to me, rather unconscious even (not FULLY unconscious, but it did take astrology to make me aware of this at all.) He has more power in that he is more conscious of the energy and can work with it. If he feels aggravated he can take measures to calm that feeling. But I can't really shut my Pluto off. So my Pluto is more powerful in its insistent quality, but less powerful in terms of being malleable and responsive to the conscious directions I'd like to give it. (My sun is square Pluto, so yes, I'd like to tell it to buzz off...but it won't.)
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LeeLoo2014
Knowflake Posts: 15689
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted September 07, 2015 10:26 AM
Generational is important. Those from your generation will activate your outer aspects like none other (those from other generations can do it too IF they fit your outer-to- personal geometry and energy, and your significant romantic profile). Most people live and interact and date within a generation anyway, right? There are shared values, shared generational life events and energy. Out of those, the ones closer in orb to your outer aspects + matching your profile are usually the most attractive when it comes to the activation and solution of your outer planets aspects.------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... AstroMandala New Profiles IP: Logged |
LeeLoo2014
Knowflake Posts: 15689
From: Venus cornering Neptune
Registered: Mar 2014
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posted September 07, 2015 10:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
My moon is conjunct Neptune with many many people who are 5 - 6 years older than me. I feel it more with these people simply because until recently I'd never dated anyone that much older than me, but I imagine soon, if I keep dating within this age range I wouldn't feel it as much. I would get used to the Neptune energy and it wouldn't be anything new to me. But I, the planet person, would nearly always be a new experience for them.
My view on aspects is that you want someone ON your aspect (the same harmonic) not someplace else. And you feel this when the energy is missing (someone from another generation, if they don't have something there), you feel your aspect being left aside in the synastry. ------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms... AstroMandala New Profiles IP: Logged |
StillTippin
Knowflake Posts: 83
From: Houston, Tx
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted September 09, 2015 01:20 PM
I agree with the OP. I honestly hate having synastry with ppl that involve outer planets. I feel like ppl do it as a means of being exact or finding reasons to explain something instead of accepting it for what it is. I feel the same way about asteroids tooBut I do disagree about the Pluto upper hand statement. I always seem to be the Pluto person and its not as ppl think it is. Its the Pluto person that either gives or makes the ultimatum. At least in my case it has. But I will say I had to deal with alot more pain than the planet person. This us why I hate the outer planets, they get complex and things carry over. But when I have synastry between personal planets, its more simple and much more passionate and real. IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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