posted September 23, 2015 05:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Yeah, it really does require on the astrologer's own discretion; almost how we know our own charts. We know when a certain pattern is being activated in some way. It's our own discernment that's going to make the final call.

In your case, I agree. Certain patterns may have parts which are otherwise further than we'd like, but we've yet to find the reason for it. Usually, something else -- like a midpoint -- is dead-on; or it'll align with another pattern very tightly.

In this way, I see why JUNO is the stronger influence than VENUS -- and yet, while, yes, it's ambient. So much of the 9H energy is both being generated into JUNO-related things, as well as a Venusian direction: art. There's probably something else around there that's bang-on which I've yet to even find.

Ahhh, astrology. It is the gift that keeps on; the endless journey -- the road ever unfolding before us; that -- sometimes brightly, sometimes dimly -- lit path through the dark.

---

That's a brilliant point, Auby, absolutely marvelous one.

Let's say Venus/ASC would be on 17 Scorpio, the degree of his Moon/my MC.
According to orb theory, it would be an ideal placement, or at least the strongest influence BUT

looking at the composite, I see not a single 17 deg in there, apart from Lust 16 Libra

Venus/ASC would be out of the fixed cross they are making with Priapus and Ceres. and the other connections

because

the degrees I see in my composite are most of them between 20-25, and the position of Venus on that degree allows for an almost perfect Yod with Sun and Chiron in sextile, releasing on DSC, and other aspects: such as with Pallas, Anteros, etc.

it's not exactly on his Moon and my MC, but it is the exact mdp of

his Saturn/Vesta
his MC/Vesta
his Vesta/NN (1)
his Uranus/NN
his NN/Chiron
his Jupiter/Juno
his Sun/Lilith
his Venus/Valentine
Mars/Amor
Jupiter/Ceres
Sun/Pallas
Neptune/Amor
Sun/Psyche

mentioning only major mdp

my
Uranus/Karma
Moon/Amor
Sun/Cupido
Uranus/NN
Sun/ASC
Sun/Pallas
Juno/Psyche

posted September 23, 2015 05:27 PM            

ME:

My sun, mercury, Chiron fall in the c8th house.

My Jupiter, pof, NN fall into c5h.

My Venus in c9h.

Conjunctions only (within 2 degree orb
Neptune conjunct cNNode.
Moon conjunct cUranus.
Mars/saturn conjunct MC.

Wondering if that last one might make me push for the relationship to survive since it touches the comp MC

HIM:

His sun, mercury, Venus fall into c7h
His moon in the c8h
His chiron in the c9h

Conjunctions, same orb as above:
Mercury/venus conjunct Sun/ Jupiter in comp 7h.
Juno conjunct cMoon.
Jupiter conjunct cMars
SNode conjunct cMercury.

Adding the overlays gives me more to ponder as I grow in this relationship. I think using tighter orbs when comparing to the composite, since its already a merged chart, would help one to focus on the most prevalent energies one brings to the relationship, and in turn what they get from it. I like to look at it as what the native brings to the relationship, and what they can get out of it.

posted September 23, 2015 05:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by llewsacm:
After reading this wonderful thread, I checked out overlays to the composite with my own intimate relationship...

ME:

My sun, mercury, Chiron fall in the c8th house.

My Jupiter, pof, NN fall into c5h.

My Venus in c9h.

Conjunctions only (within 2 degree orb
Neptune conjunct cNNode.
Moon conjunct cUranus.
Mars/saturn conjunct MC.

Wondering if that last one might make me push for the relationship to survive since it touches the comp MC

HIM:

His sun, mercury, Venus fall into c7h
His moon in the c8h
His chiron in the c9h

Conjunctions, same orb as above:
Mercury/venus conjunct Sun/ Jupiter in comp 7h.
Juno conjunct cMoon.
Jupiter conjunct cMars
SNode conjunct cMercury.

Adding the overlays gives me more to ponder as I grow in this relationship. I think using tighter orbs when comparing to the composite, since its already a merged chart, would help one to focus on the most prevalent energies one brings to the relationship, and in turn what they get from it. I like to look at it as what the native brings to the relationship, and what they can get out of it.

---

I like and use the overlays concept too.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 24, 2015 01:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
This seems so rudimentary a technique, I'm shocked I've not considered it before, and I hardly expect to be the first to do so. Nonetheless, it could prove tremendously enlightening, and help garner greater understanding into the core dynamics between a couple through the vehicle via which they relate: the relationship.

The composite, after all, is the separate entity created by the energies in combination -- the literal midpoint of each individual. It only makes sense that we would analyse the synastry from each natal to the composite, as well as vice versa: overlay the composite positions in each natal.

Why treat the composite as a viable means of studying synastry? Let's first consider what it is with which we truly become fascinated when experiencing romantic attraction. Is it the person, or what we may hope to experience with them? Are we entranced by the way they check their email, fold their socks, and parallel park? Probably not. The stirrings of infatuation allow us to begin creation of a fantasy within our heads of how that same person might hold us, smile at us, yearn for, and make love to us. But, at the time attraction begins, none of these things are realised; they might not even be feasible. But the dream nonetheless takes flight.

After all, how many times has an individual said that it's the way their partner made them feel which brings them such feelings of romantic love? The truth is that it isn't the partner so much as the relationship the two are having. We are truly influenced, altered, shaped, and affected by each other to a point of being multifaceted with more than a single persona or schema of behaviour. It's this schema for romantic relations that becomes activated when we've entered into a romantic relationship. That may prove best viewed via synastry from the composite to the natals.

I'll begin with the 'composite synastry' with my boyfriend and I, who is also my twin flame -- or whatever the hell you want to call that. Nothing is ever truly perfect here on Earth, alas, and we have issues just as anyone else. It's merely our commitment to loving one another unconditionally that sets us apart from many other relationships.

Hopefully, this technique will reveal some of that.

Heh, 11:11 again. That's befitting.

---

posted September 24, 2015 04:09 PM            

My perspective
-------------------
c-SN conjunct nChiron 0.44

c-Avx conjunct nBML 0.28

c-Sun conjunct nSun 0.30
c-Sun conjunct nMercury 1.23

c-Moon conjunct nAvx 1.21
c-Moon conjunct nSun/Moon

c-Saturn opposite nBML 2.39

c-Venus opposite nSaturn 0.55

c-Mars oppospite nChiron 3.05

c-Jupiter conjunct n DESC 3.37
c-Jupiter conjunct nSN 0.31
c-Jupiter opposite nNeptune o.44

c-BML conjunct nASC 0.48
c-BML conjunct n NN 3.54
c-BML conjunct nMars 1.05
c-BML conjunct nNeptune 3.41

c-Chiron opposite n Uranus 1.32

his perspective
------------------

c-ASC conjunct nVenus 5.16 yes, know very wide - and I know I have to answer Leeloos questions about orb still,b ut Iam too tired to do now

c-DESC conjunct nJuno 3.32

c-NN conjunct nPluto 0.36

c-Sun conjunct nMC 1.44
c-Sun conjunct nSun 0.30
c-Sun conjunct nMoon 2.11
c-Sun conjunct nSun/Moon

c-Moon conjunct nVenus 3.02

c-Mars conjunct nPluto 1.44

c-Mercury ocnjunct n Neptune 3.14

c-Jupiter opposite nMercury 1.18

c-BML conjunct n Mercury 3.07

c-Juno opposite nUranus 1.05

c-Ceres conjunct n ASC 2.00
c-Ceres opposite n Saturn 3.22

c-Uranus opposite nChiron 2.47

posted September 24, 2015 04:11 PM            

c-Jupiter conjuncts my DESC
c-Jupiter opposes his DESC-ruler

c-Sun conjuncts my DESC-ruler
c-Moon conjuncts his (intercepted) DESC-ruler

posted September 24, 2015 05:25 PM            

quote:

---

c-Jupiter conjunct n DESC 3.37

---

quote:

---

c-SN conjunct nChiron 0.44

---

And that Sun-MC thing. Ehh, I was hoping for more.

posted September 24, 2015 10:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Sign-resonance definitely counts, though not as strongly as tight aspects.

However I do think that if there is a composite planet tightly conjunct a natal planet, it will trigger the aspects of that natal planet in general, even if the other planets, participating in the aspect, might not be very closely in orb. However still, the planet making the tight connection will be the focus.

---

I agree, Ceri. That's what I've found to be true in my experience. You'll still feel the planets in a bit wider of an orb, but if there is a natal planet making an EXACT aspect to the Composite, it will take center stage.

Example:
In my Composite with T, we have the Composite Moon in Cancer 1°07'
His natal Venus is Cancer 1°07'

So, Cancer Moon-Venus energy is what is felt the most strongly. It just permeates the air when we're around each other. Other people feel it strongly, too, and notice it. It's in the 10th house in the middle of a Mars-Venus conjunction, so I think that makes it stand out more.

His Venus is his Chart Ruler and 8th house ruler, so I think that exact conjunction to the Composite Moon hit harder than if it had ruled something else.

I think all the natal aspects to the Composite play a part, but if one is super, super tight, then it will be the definite "Theme" of the relationship, so pay extra close attention to them.

posted September 25, 2015 03:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wild Horses:
I agree, Ceri. That's what I've found to be true in my experience. You'll still feel the planets in a bit wider of an orb, but if there is a natal planet making an EXACT aspect to the Composite, it will take center stage.

---

I am waiting for Ceri's ideas, but personally I am not sure tight orbs always prevail as center stage. I feel it's more complicated than this. A luminary in a wider orb, an important configuration such as one involving angles, a wider conj to an angle for instance, probably prevails over an exact conjunction with some asteroids, for example; even an important and complex sign symbolism may prevail over an exact Alma conj Lust (0). Of course, in your case, this is a major conj. Moon Venus.

By prevailing, I mean the center stage in the economy of the entire composite and the entire relationship. They are in order of importance for me.
We still need to determine what is the actual, real life impact of tight orbs vs. not so tight ones.

I remember I did a thread some time ago asking people what aspect they felt first when they met ( I need to find that one). Most of them identified they felt the aspects to their luminaries, angles and their nodal axis, no matter the orb, and not necessarily their tightest aspects in their synastries.

Some parts of our charts are always more receptive than others and always center stage, despite the orbs.
------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 04:18 AM            

Moon 14 Leo
Neptune 7 Sag
Mercury 11 Libra

There's no question with me this 7 deg trine is an integral part of my personality and that it totally works. But this also happens because as you can see, Mercury is exactly on its mdp, 10.54 Libra; I wouldn't look at just the trine here, or the sextiles, and consider the trine is weaker than the sextiles based on the orb; I look at the configuration and see it as a whole; on the contrary, I think the trine is stronger here because of the mdp configuration; Mercury is perfectly activating the trine, creating a complex structure with great importance and power in the economy of my chart and if I had just the trine in exact orb, it wouldn't mean I had a stronger trine.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 04:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I am waiting for Ceri's ideas, but personally I am not sure tight orbs always prevail as center stage. I feel it's more complicated than this. A luminary in a wider orb, an important configuration such as one involving angles, a wider conj to an angle for instance, probably prevails over an exact conjunction with some asteroids, for example.

---

posted September 25, 2015 04:43 AM            

her Sun 8 Pisces
his Moon 2 Pisces

his Sun 6 Aqua
her Moon 24 Aqua

an orb + sign DW

giving a 6 deg conj in the composite, no less valid though

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 05:20 AM            

Example:
the total phase of a solar ecclipse for example happens only with a very tight orb between Moon and Sun.
(approxmiately 30 minutes applying and 30 minutes separating, minutes as ORB not TIME!)

The maximum phased does not happen until at that very specific orb, not 5 degrees before or after.
It is a very specific timing moment, which is what the exactness of orb really is about.

The partial ecclipse however, did start at about 1,5 degree applying and ended after about 1,5 degrees separating (it`s not always the same figure, as ecclipses have different durations, but it is roughly in that area degreewise).

Before or after that there was no celestial event.

Tight orb is like a flashlight being directed on a specific point (or planet), of course the light is spreading to the sides as well, but it loses intensity of light. The coherence loosens.

Howeer aspects are not working like a switch, they are phasal. They start subtle, increase in intensity and fade out again.

And then additionally, while this is prinicipally so, there are certain factors coming into play as well, especially midpointpictures and parallels/ contraparallels, which often justify a larger orb.

posted September 25, 2015 05:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
"if an aspect feels as if it's in orb, then it's in orb";

---

I can see the merits of this saying, HOWEVER I do also see the danger in it, things become rather arbitrary and a justification of what we WANT to see rather than what is really there.

posted September 25, 2015 05:51 AM            

Just kidding of course

While I agree that the eclipse in the eclipse analogy is the celestial event, I think we should also consider that an event is not made just by the precise second of the alignment, but the whole phase, the whole built up of energy and then the way it is used afterwards. Which you mentioned, of course. The actual moment is rather symbolic, and a point in the countdown, but I'm not sure we can say the phase before, when the event is being prepared, or the one afterwards, when many times it begins to show results, are less important. In other words, the actual event is dramatic and meaningful precisely because there is this whole story before and after it.

As for the self-deception, I agree, but I also think ignoring wider aspects because we stick to a tight orb is an equal form of self-deception

Of course, we are not talking about us here, the brilliant minds discussing these things but since I mentioned an astrologer using too large orbs for my taste (Liz Greene) I also know some astrologers ignoring a whole geometrical structure and seeing only a sextile just because the others are not 3 deg. which leads to an impaired interpretation, IMO.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 06:00 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Oops Ceri is already here to kick my azz, but I need to stand my ground

Just kidding of course

While I agree that the eclipse in the eclipse analogy is the celestial event, I think we should also consider that an event is not made just by the precise second of the alignment, but the whole phase, the whole built up of energy and then the way it is used afterwards. Which you mentioned, of course. The actual moment is rather symbolic, and a point in the countdown, but I'm not sure we can say the phase before, when the event is being prepared, or the one afterwards, when many times it begins to show results, are less important. In other words, the actual event is dramatic and meaningful precisely because there is this whole story before and after it.

As for the self-deception, I agree, but I also think ignoring wider aspects because we stick to a tight orb is an equal form of self-deception

Of course, we are not talking about us here, the brilliant minds discussing these things but since I mentioned an astrologer using too large orbs for my taste (Liz Greene) I also know some astrologers ignoring a whole geometrical structure and seeing only a sextile just because the others are not 3 deg. which leads to an impaired interpretation, IMO.

---

posted September 25, 2015 06:19 AM            

DEFINITELY. 3 and 4 degrees are absolutely reasonable orbs.

Leeloo,

I agree with you, however there is a distinction between the build-up-phase and the culmination, just like there is a difference in a story between the exposition and the climax. (not sure these are english words, too).

They are both necessary ingredients of the story, but different stages of the process.

and as you have to stand your ground, so I have to stand mine.

the climax, the moment of exactness (within that tight orb I mentioned) IS the most condensed, crystallized moment in the story; of course there had to be a leading up to it, and you are right, often we get awareness of the event in the aftermath-phase, which has probably soemthing to do with the human mind processing things.

posted September 25, 2015 06:38 AM            

I agree, Ceri in the end, it is about having a sound reason (mathematical, symbolical etc.) for the choice (of orb) in that particular case (which includes a sound reason for ignoring a wider one too - it being more than 3 is not automatic exclusion for me), and also, quite important for me, an interpretation that verifies with reality AND seeing the whole picture. It's noticeable for an astrologer that some people display some wide aspects such as wide oppositions, but usually there is some complex structure in there, a web of aspects, midpoints, declinations etc. surrounding it and a precise reason for the necessity of that orb being wider for the whole architecture of the chart, and this web is usually very tight and takes us to some precise mathematics, beyond a first glance.

On the other hand, I still stick to my view for now, when it comes to prevalence not being just based on orbs and what I said in my previous posts. This is not opposed to what Ceri says, necessarily, for we usually find common ground "in the field" so to speak, and even when we don't, she is still my guru

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 07:10 AM            

In this case, it means the synastric orb (and natal, of course, for natal positions) combined with the speed of those particular planets, would be an important "timer", and when two people are bound to meet and do certain things together, what is destined for them, the orb range may also be related to this timer (not just natal synastry architecture), and it being more or less makes for a different timer.

There's probably perfect architecture in the synastric charts per rapport to what those people are meant to experience, sometimes just a punctual lesson, other times the relationship of a lifetime, ultimately, nothing is to be ignored in the charts, and sometimes we have to dig very deep to find what is separative and what is connective in there, or to see how perfect the structure is, such as how messed up the things would have been if an orb had been tighter. (this of course doesn't mean we have to automatically embrace wide orbs gratuitously from now on, just a reminder of flexibility, at least when it comes to the idea: "the tighter, the better")

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted September 25, 2015 07:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by tgem:
Here's the synastry overlay between me and Cusp:
[IMG]http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag47/tgem1/c0797649-75a0-490d- abe4-43e18cf088fd_zpsyqbuimne.jpg[/IMG]

I think it's interesting that the significant signs houses in our composite activate the same houses in our natals in one way or the other (mostly 5th and 11th) but the difference is our composite activates my 10th but his 4th.

---

Our composite sun and moon are in 7th house Pisces..a union based on spiritual and unconditional love ....and sacrifice (I think).

Our DSC/VTX/moon conjunction sits on top of his natal venus in 14Pisces in his 4th house. What so significant about this is that his VIP is the apex of his natal Yod.

Now for me, even though it's a bit wide at 5 degrees, our composite DSC is conjunct my natal MC. Interesting that our DSC/VTX (11/12 Pisces) conjunction is exactly conjunct my natal alma (11 Pis.) Our composite Alma at 25Cap in the 5th is conjunct his natal sun/union conjunction at 24 and 27 Cap respectively.

Our composite Valentine at 17 Tau in our 9th house of spirituality is exactly conjunct my natal sun in my 11th! Our composite Juno at 29 Sag in our 4th is conjunct his natal moon at 26Sag in his 2nd.

As Auby indicated, "the basic identity of the relationship illuminates the area of life concerning principles, philosophy, higher education and academics, as well as spirituality, the evolution of the soul, and even the legal system."

How appropriate for us in that we both faced morals/ethics and even divorce in order to be together.

And I love that our composite Jupiter at 14 Gemini in the 10th is exactly conjunct my natal venus at 14Gem in my 12th. Plus our composite MC is at 5 Gem which conjuncts my natal moon at 3 Gem.

posted September 25, 2015 09:47 AM            

I agree with that, yes, good point. I mean about the timers.

In fact I noticed that as well, in terms of solar arcs. Since P and me are 5 years apart, the 5 degrees aspects (in a certain direction) result in our solar arcs occupy the same degrees (irrespective of sign).
There is a rather "fixed solar arc synastry", which will of course then trigger natal planets now and then.

posted September 25, 2015 12:29 PM            

btw you are sweet.

No Gurus here, though, just exchanging thoughts on eye-level, which I prefer.

And I want to emphasize what you wrote here: