posted December 24, 2009 08:48 PM            

Personally i wouldn't count any of your orbs as significant. I would use a 2/3 degree orb MAX!

For instance, i have with my twin flame a DW eros/psyche (not conjunct) but at 4/5 orb, a saturn/neptune 3' orb opposition and a DW venus/pluto trine and bi quintile, both at 0' orb.

posted April 06, 2010 07:56 AM            

great quote ♥

And this is a great thread with a lot of great information.

I was wondering if anyone was still with and/or interested in the people they were Plutonic about during this thread? How did everything turn out in these relationships? What did you learn? What did your soul mates come to teach you/give you/help you with?

posted April 06, 2010 08:53 PM            

Pluto is SO slow moving, so if you had a scorp venus, you would have your venus conjunct EVERYBODY's pluto that was born within a few years of you -_-

I would think eros tightly conjunct psyche to be a better aspect by far.
And of course moon conjunct psyche or sth. Cos moon moves pretty fast.

posted April 08, 2010 12:31 PM            

If you use Pluto, might as well use the other transneptunian dwarf planets of large size.

My maternal Uncle Eddie's Venus is in exact conjunct to my Pluto.

He and I are not twin souls.

how in the world do people come up with this stuff

also I'd use small orbs for Pluto. No more than 30 minutes of arc. I believe that I have to consider how slow the object moves.

the slower the object, the narrower the orb.

The slowest moving object in our solar system, Sedna has over 10,000 year orbit. Therefore,a 5 minute maximum orb.

Linda Goodman wrote this stuff before other transneptunians were discovered in 1992.

A lot of astrologers based their work on the notion that Pluto was a planet and not knowing that Pluto had lots of neighbors in the transneptunian region.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 12, 2010 09:13 PM            

Pluto is just one of over 1,000 transneptunian objects in our solar system. Astrologers came up with certain views about Pluto based on the outdated knowledge that Pluto was a planet and the only object in our solar system.

If Pluto has influence, then so do the other transneptunian objects.

it shouldn't matter what size. Astrologers always said that size doesn't matter. They use Pluto to make a point. This was when Pluto was thought to be the only transneptunian in our solar system. Many objects orbit like Pluto. Many orbit beyond Pluto, especially Sedna.

Many astrologers ignored the transneptunians just like Vedic astrologers ignored the outer planets. When Eris was discovered, a lot of astrologers came interested. They didn't care about the other transneptunians that were discovered since 1992 because they weren't as large as Pluto.

I feel that as an astrologer that wants a 21st Century Astrology, I should adapt to the times of today with the astronomical discoveries.

Astrologers adapted to the discoveries of astronomers. After all, they use the outerplanets and Pluto. Those weren't used by the ancients.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

posted April 12, 2010 09:47 PM            

I once read in an Astrology book that Pluto's power is demonstrated on how it effected the orbit of Uranus. It was based on the notion that Pluto was Planet X which was said to cause perturbations in Uranus' orbit. Then later on astronomers realized that Planet X was actually based on errors of the calculations of Neptune's mass. Pluto's discovery was based on chance.
The astrologers were making a point about Pluto's power based on outdated theory. Now there are still astrologers that use the same emphemeris for that outdated theory,naming the hypothetical planet Transpluto. Some call it Bacchus.

Makemake was the only other dwarf planet that was bright enough for Clyde Tombaugh to have possibly detected during his search for trans-Neptunian planets around 1930 At the time of Tombaugh's survey, Makemake was only a few degrees from the ecliptic, near the border of Taurus and Auriga,at an apparent magnitude of 16.0. This position was also very near the Milky Way, and Makemake would have been almost impossible to find against the dense background of stars. Tombaugh continued searching for some years after the discovery of Pluto, but he failed to find Makemake or any other trans-Neptunian object.

The only reason that Clyde Tombaugh was able to find Pluto is that Pluto was on the ecliptic at the time. Pluto's inclination is 17 degrees. That means that Pluto orbits up to 17 degrees away from the ecliptic. If Pluto was well off the ecliptic in 1930, Tombaugh would not have discovered it. Astronomers were only looking at objects close to the ecliptic where Sun, Moon and planets appear to lie in, as seen from Earth.
The zodiac constellations are the 13 ecliptic constellations which tropical and sidereal zodiac astrologer base their 12 zodiac based systems on. Pluto tends to orbit constellations that are not of the zodiac. For example, when I was born, Pluto was 14 degrees away from the ecliptic in the constellation of Coma Bernices. Another thing is that with Pluto being so far from the ecliptic at the time, there were no true conjunctions nor oppositions around that time. There were only apparent conjunctions and oppositions. True Pluto conjunctions and oppositions are actually very uncommon due to Pluto tendency to orbit far from the ecliptic.

I think the power behind Pluto is that Pluto has lots of transneptunian neighbors which are orbiting in our charts. The whole transneptunian region could be about transformation,regeneration,and other things that astrologers have associated with Pluto before the discovery of Pluto's buddies in the 1990's. It was the discovery of big transneptunian objects starting in the turn of the 20th century that really challenged notions of Pluto being a planet.

but astrologers not knowing that Pluto was one of many transneptunians and thinking that Pluto was big as Earth, gave Pluto rulership over Scorpio and 8th house. Pluto turned out to not be big as our Earth. It turned out to be smaller than our Moon. It took the discovery of Charon in 1978 to discover the truth of Pluto's size and mass which opened the door to debate about Pluto not being a planet. It showed that Pluto's size was too small for its gravity to affect the gas giants, resulting in a brief search for a tenth planet.

What did the astrologers do. They wrote "Pluto is so powerful...even with its very small size, it causes pertubations in Uranus' orbit" That was their example of Pluto's power.

but

The search for the 10th planet was largely abandoned in the early 1990s, astronomers found that the irregularities observed in Uranus's orbit were due to a slight overestimation of Neptune's mass.

so what the astrologers wrote about Pluto's power was based on errors of the measurement of Neptune's mass.

After 1992, the discovery of numerous small icy objects with similar or even wider orbits than Pluto led to a debate over whether Pluto should remain a planet, or whether it and its neighbors should, like the asteroids, be given their own separate classification. The latter happened to Pluto just like it happened to Ceres.

of course, as I said earlier, in the turn of the century, astronomers discovered big transneptunian objects. Then they found one larger than Pluto in 2005 that got astronomers arguing for Pluto's demotion which occured in 2006. The object that got Pluto demoted was named Eris. Eris didn't just get Pluto demoted. It got Ceres promoted. The discovery of Eris led to Ceres and Pluto being equals. Ceres was once classed as a planet,and it got stripped of its planetary status because it had lots of neighbors. Pluto was once classed as a planet,and it got stripped of its planetary status. It's only fair.

It's about Astronomy progressing. Astronomers make mistakes based on old knowledge and they correct them based on new knowledge. Just think how there used to be a geocentric view ...the Sun evolved around the Earth. Galileo said "Earth evolved around the Sun", and he was forced to take back his statement by the Roman Catholic Church.

I have Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio, but I don't care about Pluto being ruler of Scorpio and 8th house. I don't cling to that. Astrologers was generalizing how Scorpios are ****** off about Pluto being demoted. I didn't feel that way. I was actually glad,and I thought it was about time. I was one of those small minority of astrologers that agree with Pluto's demotion. I am fine with Mars being ruler of Scorpio. I am actually changing my views of rulership. I am just going by traditional rulerships now. Even when astrologers assigned rulerships to Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto, they didn't observe the complete zodiac travel of these objects before they even determined their influences and made them rulers over signs and houses. It was like they did this from the New Age perspective of "I feel the energies,and so they must have influence" and looked at events and said that they correlated with the discoverie.
They based these things going on in the Western world too. A Vedic Astrologer who wrote a critical piece on the use of trans-Saturnian objects made good points about that. I do think that he was rigid in that he didn't leave room for the progression of Astrology as Astronomy progresses. He only went by what religious scriptures say about is used in Astrology. Vedic Astrology is based on the Vedas, religious scriptures. Mainstream Astrologers do the same thing in regards to going by what astrological authors wrote in books. Some of the authors stuff is outdated like I made a point about the astrologer talking about Pluto's power effecting the orbit of Uranus when it was actually astronomers making errors on Neptune's mass.

but yeah...Pluto has power, but I don't believe it has nearly as much that Western Mainstream Astrologers say that it has.

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

A Different Mind Is Not A Deficient Mind.

posted April 13, 2010 12:23 PM            

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dwarf_planet_candidates

A trans-Neptunian object (TNO; also written transneptunian object) is any object in the Solar System that orbits the Sun at a greater distance on average than Neptune. The Kuiper belt, scattered disk, and Oort cloud are three divisions of this volume of space.[1]

The first trans-Neptunian object to be discovered was Pluto in 1930. It took more than 60 years to discover, in 1992, a second trans-Neptunian object, (15760) 1992 QB1, with only the discovery of Pluto's moon Charon before that in 1978. Since then however, over 1,000 trans-Neptunian objects have been discovered, differing in sizes, orbits, and surface composition. 198 of these (as of November, 2009) have their orbit well enough determined that they are given a permanent minor planet designation.[2][3]

The largest known trans-Neptunian object is Eris (discovered in 2005), followed by Pluto, Makemake and Haumea.

History
[edit] Discovery of Pluto

The orbit of each of the planets is affected by the gravitational influences of all the other planets. Discrepancies in the early 1900s between the observed and expected orbits of Uranus and Neptune suggested that there were one or more additional planets beyond Neptune (see Planet X). The search for these led to the discovery of Pluto in 1930. However, Pluto was too small to explain the discrepancies, and revised estimates of Neptune's mass showed that the problem was spurious.

Pluto was easiest to find because it has the highest apparent magnitude of all known trans-Neptunian objects. It also has a lower inclination to the ecliptic than most other large TNO's.
[edit] Discovery of other trans-Neptunian objects

After Pluto's discovery, no one searched for further TNOs for a long time. Indeed, it was generally believed that Pluto was the only major object of the Kuiper belt. Only after the discovery of a second TNO, (15760) 1992 QB1, in 1992, systematic searches for further such objects began. A broad strip of the sky around the ecliptic was photographed and digitally evaluated for slowly-moving objects. Hundreds of TNOs were found, with diameters in the range of 50 to 2500 kilometers.
[edit] Eris

Eris is the largest known trans-Neptunian object. Currently lying at 97 AU away, Eris is one of the farthest known objects in the solar system, and the third brightest of the TNOs. Classified as a scattered disk object (SDO), Eris follows an orbit at 10 billion kilometres from the Sun, completing it in 560 years at an unusual 45-degree angle.
[edit] Distribution and classification

According to their distance from the Sun and their orbit parameters, TNOs are classified in two large groups:
Distribution of trans-Neptunian Objects.

* The Kuiper belt contains objects with an average distance to the sun of 30 to about 55 AU, usually having close-to-circular orbits with a small inclination from the ecliptic. Kuiper belt objects are further classified into the following two groups:
o Resonant objects are locked in an orbital resonance with Neptune. Objects with a 1:2 resonance are also called twotinos, and objects with a 2:3 resonance are called plutinos, after their most prominent member, Pluto.
o Classical Kuiper belt objects (also called cubewanos) have no such resonance, moving on almost circular orbits, unperturbed by Neptune. Examples are 1992 QB1, 50000 Quaoar and Makemake.

* The scattered disk contains objects further from the Sun, usually with very irregular orbits (i.e. very elliptical and having a strong inclination from the ecliptic). A typical example is the largest known TNO, Eris.

The diagram to the right illustrates the distribution of known trans-Neptunian objects (up to 70 AU) in relation to the orbits of the planets and the Centaurs for reference. Different classes are represented in different colours. Resonant objects (including Neptune Trojans) are plotted in red, cubewanos in blue. The scattered disk extends to the right, far beyond the diagram, with known objects at mean distances beyond 500 AU (Sedna) and aphelia beyond 1000 AU ((87269) 2000 OO67).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Neptunian_object

------------------
Raymond

Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted April 05, 2011 12:34 AM            

I've had a few Venus/Pluto contacts in synastry as well.. but one of them really stood out from the crowd.. touched me deeply, like no other. And.. guess what? We're both heterosexual females! Yup lol. She's happily married with kids. We met at work; it was both of our first day on the job! In synastry her Venus conjuncts my Pluto/SN. That was what stood out the most for me whenever we were together. Our friends felt the intensity too and commented on it a few times. We were so emotionally charged around each other, it was overwhelming! As for Twinflames.. don't believe we are. But I can honestly say.. I fell in love with this girl, her personality.. her soul.. just who she is as a person. It's a deep, unspoken love that damn Venus/Pluto conjunction! Too bad she doesn't have a pen!s LOL.

posted April 05, 2011 04:51 AM            

We have an exact Venus/Pluto trine in synastry. It does feel like no other.
I have an unaspected Venus so anything that touched my Venus is magnified,I think.

posted April 05, 2011 08:10 AM            

It is unlike anything I have had

posted April 08, 2011 08:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dallas:
My partner and I have a Venus (mine) conjunct Pluto (his) @ 5 degrees. We also have a Venus (his) opposite Pluto (mine) @ -8 degrees.

The way it is playing out with us is almost like feeling trapped. We should probably let each other go for now until we can get our own stuff worked out...but we just cannot let go no matter how hard we try. It is intense as intense can be. Both of us have insecurity and trust issues that rear their ugly heads from time to time. We have gone from just dating to being full fledged partners to dating to being friends and back to just dating for now. At one point we were going to just part ways and it was just too painful to do and so we decided to just date. We have alot of other aspects in synastry...Venus (me) sextiles Mars (Him). Being just friends is totally outta the question because our synastry is just too strong for just that. Its totally like an all or nothing thing. Its unsettling to say the least.
Sounds intence and interesting. Good luck.

---

posted April 08, 2011 11:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dallas:
My partner and I have a Venus (mine) conjunct Pluto (his) @ 5 degrees. We also have a Venus (his) opposite Pluto (mine) @ -8 degrees.

The way it is playing out with us is almost like feeling trapped. We should probably let each other go for now until we can get our own stuff worked out...but we just cannot let go no matter how hard we try. It is intense as intense can be. Both of us have insecurity and trust issues that rear their ugly heads from time to time. We have gone from just dating to being full fledged partners to dating to being friends and back to just dating for now. At one point we were going to just part ways and it was just too painful to do and so we decided to just date. We have alot of other aspects in synastry...Venus (me) sextiles Mars (Him). Being just friends is totally outta the question because our synastry is just too strong for just that. Its totally like an all or nothing thing. Its unsettling to say the least.

---

posted May 21, 2011 03:31 AM            

Linda in her book Relationship Signs says "whatever the connection- family,buisness, or friendship-these three(Venus Counjuct,Sextile or Trine pluto)aspects are evidence of a deep karmic bond from numerous past associations.
These aspects indicate either Twin Souls of Soul Mates.
Soul Mates usually have other aspects in common like the moon conjuct the sun or ascendant in the other's chart, as well as multiple ties and conjuctions shown in both charts.In addition ,they meet after a major crisis in one or the other's life.True Soul Mates are much more complex and rare than the idea that is commonly referred to in our culture."

I have studied this particular aspect a lot with various couples charts.My counclusion is: only these aspects without other significant aspects does not indicate soul mates. I have seen couples without sun -moon connections having venus-pluto aspects living an very low rommantic life.
I feel positive aspects with Ascendents of each other and positive aspects of Mercury for communication ,Mars for sexual chemistry, Venus for rommance, And jupiter for general good luck along with
Karma Lord saturn and Mystic neptune aspects are all very important to consider Soul Mates.
Pluto is a very slow moving planet so all people born in specific periods will have these venus-pluto aspects. Here we have to listen to ourselves , we have to listen to our Higer s-elf who knows it all. Counjuctions even of 0 degrees show karmic connections but the depth of this connections will depend on yout other aspects in astrological charts and counjction of pluto -venus 12-14 degrees apart still can be a Soul-Mate if other aspects in both charts are favourable. Also if venus is in a sign before or after pluto but both these planets can be in counjuction if degrees of both planets allow it.Example: venus in leo 27 degree and pluto in virgo 4 degree. It is still a conjction.

With love.
Milindkumar.

posted May 21, 2011 02:11 PM            

"All Hail The Heartbreaker"

I had the notion that you'd make me change my ways
My bad habits would be gone in a matter of days
I had the feeling that you'd open up my eyes
To a whole new world that had since been in disguise

But that day will most likely never come for me
And it's just my luck to end up getting stuck
To everything you are

So tonight I'll sit and pick apart your pictures
And overanalyze your words
But the truth is that I've never fallen so hard
It's taking everything in me
Just to forget your sweater so far

I had the notion that you'd make me forget the world
But your undecisive mind shows me that
You are "just another girl"
I had the feeling that those looks you gave me were real
What if I ripped your heart apart at the seams
Maybe then you'd know how I feel

But that day will most likely never come for me
And it's just my luck to end up getting stuck
To everything you are

So tonight I'll sit and pick apart your pictures
And overanalyze your words
But the truth is that I've never fallen so hard
It's taking everything in me
Just to forget your sweater so far

I can honestly say
That I never, ever, ever felt this way
Your lips, your eyelashes, your skin
These are the parts of your body
That cause my comatose to begin

I can honestly say
That I never, ever, ever felt this way
Your lips, your eyelashes, your skin
These are the parts of your body
That cause my comatose to begin

I will sleep another day
I don't really need to anyway
What's the point when my dreams are infected
With words you used to say
I will breathe in a moment
As long as I keep my distance
I wouldn't want to go messing anything up

So don't go worrying about me
It's not like I think about you constantly
So maybe I do, but that shouldn't affect
Your life anymore
I knew it the moment you walked into the door

So don't go worrying about me
It's not like I think about this constantly
So maybe I do, but that shouldn't affect
Your life anymore
I knew it the moment you walked into the door

I'll let you get the best of me
Because there's nothing else that I do well
I'll let you get the best of me
Because there's nothing else that I do well
I'll be the giver and you'll be the taker
I guess that's how this one's gonna go I'll be the giver and you'll be the taker
You've got me down on my knees and I proclaim
All hail the heartbreaker

posted April 29, 2013 06:45 AM            

this one guy...i was the pluto and he was the venus conjunct 1 degree, he definately pursued me and i felt such a strong attraction to him. o my gosh yesss. but i felt like i couldnt throw myself out there too much with him even though i felt sooooo utterly and completely into him, i had to keep my control (pluto), but it caused me to have love/hate with him for sure. we also had moon square venus and that just got so annoying. regardless ill never forget out chemistry and the way he made me feel, it was like he was made for me he was everything i ever wanted. ended ovbiously, his not mature enough we'll just say that lol

posted April 29, 2013 02:27 PM              

Especially if it is in such tight orbs.

I have experienced the square and the trine, and yes, I felt it big time.

For some reason I don`t seem to be drawn to other`s Venus on my Pluto though; however there were some instances when I reacted strongly to someone`s Mars on my Pluto. Curiously the aspect was always exact (under one degree).
Not sure why I am not into Libra-Venus though.