posted September 12, 2016 03:46 PM            

Your sophistication as an astrologer and thinker can have a flip side--you see so much depth and potential for personal growth in this situation, and astrologically, you're doing advanced work with partner charts that's way beyond my knowledge. and I don't know the whole backstory of your relationship---but ultimately, you're looking so deeply into the mutual dynamics of your partnership, when the problem is really your partner's natal and where he's at in terms of working with it. A lot of the behaviors you've described on various threads are red flags, and I have a feeling those behaviors and tendencies aren't exclusive to your relationship, but problems he has in other contexts and has had with exes.

You've said what you're describing are examples of his worst behaviors, and that of course there's a wonderful and loving side----which is part of a pattern with controlling people who act out physically and verbally---but you're also talking about a less-than-year-long relatuonship, and these red flag behaviors have taken place over the course of a few weeks, not a few years----yelling and throwing things, panicking after acting abusive and texting ten times begging you back, punishing you for his jealousy by taking another woman to his cabin with him, calling you an "energy sucking witch" (which might be light to you, but your Aries daughter might take some of his verbal messages harder), engaging in power struggles with a child, and competing with your daughter for your attention (that one haunts me, it reminds me so much of the family dynamic I had at your daughter's age.)

You frame the pain in your relationship as a dynamic you're both working with---but those red-flag behaviors on his end that leave you up all night crying with jealousy or driving off after he's kicked you out are him crossing lines that just are not okay ever period. You say he wasn't fathered well--I think for people who have family of origin issues like that, it takes a LOT of work to be healthy partners, let alone parents---and he is still acting out physically and verbally.

If you do look at partner dynamics with him, I think it makes sense to lead with looking at the Davidsons etc between him and your daughter. He's so intimately in her life already. She shouldn't have to compete with an adult man for her mom's attention or hear her innocent childhood games called "stupid", or have him standing over her angry about what she's doing with her book---if any of the screaming and throwing things and saying your relationship is over is happening in front of her (or happens in front of her in the future), she shouldn't have to witness that.

Witnessing that kind of thing is NOT strengthening to a little girl. If you were describing 3 or 4 incidents like that over 9.5 YEARS, I would think, this is a guy who's struggling with his dad issues and his super-challenging FIXED Mars-Saturn opposition, and it gives him a tendency to be controlling and impatient sometimes, which he'll have to work with conscientiously if he's in a father-type role or in any kind of romantic partnership ever-----but 9.5 months? He's not ready to be a healthy partner to anyone yet. He acts out too much physically and verbally. Those things escalate over time rather than get better.

posted September 12, 2016 04:15 PM            

I've broken up with several people for my daughter's sake. I might well have continued if it had been just me. I would have ended it with D. by now if I truly believed that my involvement with him was compromising my abilIty to be the best parent I can be. I truly believe he helps me be more responsible, see things I might have missed. Hefills in certain gaps in my thinking and helps me be a stronger better more ethical person, overall

He helps me be a better parent in many ways. He has been the one saying we can't talk about.our relationship in front of her lately... even though he basically causes the situation which makes me feel like talking to him even when she's around.... He is trying. We're doing our best. He just came here this morning and played with her for hours, which IS change... normally he stays the night, leaves in the morning. So that was alright. And he and she get along pretty well and she's learning to read and loom with him...

I do indeed look at their charts. They have nodes reversed, very tight orb, within minutes, and lots of other... things... the composite and Davison are, really intense.

You would need to see her chart.. And meet her... And be Here... to know what I mean by how strong she is, how she understands. And how I talk to her about it all really honestly and clearly and how ok she really is... if she weren't, I would have finished it by now. I can't protect her from everything, and I can't shame myself for having relationships which do indeed help me grow in patience, humility, strength, and compassion. No matter how hard or awful another person is,I have learned that my actions are within my.power... even when I'm terribly triggered I am learning to.remain calm and compassionate (because he absolutely requires it... otherwise he goes crazy... so I see it as really hard training. Which I am wishing would end sometimes, but I'm not fully in control (yet!))...

I hear your judgments re the situation and I see why you've made them, I agree with you on some levels for sure.

I've set these boundaries because they needed to be set, and I'm in the process of trying to navigate the desire of my heart and the attachment issues I have. I told him it's over on the phone last night... over and over I said it.

Because yes, he's playing power games. And he doesn't admit it. I've been very patient and stuff but I can't listen to him hurt me saying he doesn't want to be here, and keep showing up here... it is all just so nonsensical...

I can't sum things up here. It's been a process of softening again and again, forgiving and having compassion again and again.

At this point I wish I could "end it" but I feel that in order to heal the world and live in community the way I want.to do, I need to continue navigating and not indulge in the illusion that I can just "end it"... I can change it. And he knows it needs to change. And we are changing it.

It's taking a LOT of work to do but neither of us seems able to give up on trying.

I know his issues are being activated but so are mine.

My staying up all night jealous may have been triggered by him... but it's STILL my attachment and jealousy issue. I am learning how to discern really clearly when it's my.problem and when it's somebody else's.

posted September 12, 2016 04:27 PM            

I live by these principles, with full responsibility for what I attract.into my life, because it empowers me. I have learned from him how not to engage in a victim mentality. It is now time to put this very much into practise.

My weakness is still over attachment. But whose isn't... Chiron in Cancer opposite my Moon... my mom was ALWAYS there full on with me, amazing, doting... And then suddenly poof. Abandoned. I ripped into that babysitter for 3 straight hours. I couldn't believe it. I did the same thing with my boyfriend in high school, even though it was illogical to like him at all.

I'm still healing from that!

And the illusion of separation is the cause of suffering.

I don't just say that, I really know it to be true. And I try not to regress from my seamless awareness of this reality because when I engage with this in mind the people around me are more peaceful and joyful.

He may be troubled. But I am a Scorpio Sun, Capricorn Moon. I thrive on extreme challenge. It's my bread and butter. That's the way I am.

It hurts. It sucks, it's hard. I'm not punishing myself, I'm not intentionally hurting myself.. its hard to describe the way my life balances out, but it kind of does.

It hurts a lot to think of just pushing him away. My blood hurts. it hurts to be around him too.

So I need to master my feeling of need, my anxiety at being left by him, my missing him, my projecting my attachment wound and my illusion of separation schism onto him. I need to free myself from all that, and free him from it in the process. At least so I can say:."you are truly free.I don't need you. I want you." Type thing. So that his guilt at leaving is truly baseless.

He has much work to do and he sees it and knows it.

His mars and mercury are in his 12th house. People don't understand but he is a channel for enormous societal energies, through which I am working alchemically. He also has Sun and Moon in the 11th...

posted September 12, 2016 04:33 PM            

In terms of this particular dynamic, we've identified the need for them to strengthen.their relationship outside the triangle. And that's been working really well, when we remember to do it.
But it's a slow process. And harried.

Triangulation occurs in many familial situations, and it's always difficult, and there aren't really clear cut answers. It's very situation dependent.

My daughter is not a new soul. Neither is he. Neither am I. Important to see this all in the context of soul growth...

With the primordial rather than the temporal awareness.

I also am applying my logic and reason and setting boundaries (and attempting to end it! And surrendering to the workings of time and space... And actively engaging... etc etc.)

I appreciate your insights, I do. Thank you. Please know that I'm fully aware of how dangerous and bad his actions and behaviour actually are. They are representative of thousands of years of patriarchy and I never expected to heal them in 9 months.

I hear your words as exhibiting the principle of "zero.tolerance for disrespect," which I am fervently in favour of.

However, you can not request something of others without erecting yourself as a model.

I am quitting smoking. I am working on biodiesel systems so that when I drive around I'm not poisoning everything. I am trying to establish a paradise, a food first, an artist's retreat, a healing place, an intentional community...

But until I stop flushing my poop into drinkable water and start composting it, I am part of the problem. I am purchasing plastic. I am disrespecting mother earth. I have mostly quit now, but I smoke--I disrespect my body.

As I raise my energy, my participation, those around me change too...

posted September 12, 2016 04:58 PM            

When I set those strong boundaries, he can't help but adhere to them,or be banished. He will try to find ways to exert power over me but I'll be merciless in my kindness towards myself and my daughter and him, by not indulging in my own need and desire which would facilitate his powrr plays.

posted September 12, 2016 08:11 PM            

I LOVE juno-Pluto.... lovelove love. So empowered. So done with the crap.

Also I'm kinda falling in love with a woman right now, and when I realized it's my Venus return tomorrow, aaand I'm meeting her tonight, aaNd... it was my Venus return with D. When I met up with him last year..

I broke down crying in my kitchen.

posted September 13, 2016 12:48 AM            

I played a show. I improvised on the piano and it was really nice... The girl he loved showed up.... showed us around her studio... My friend who I love was there....

What a roller coaster ride.

posted September 13, 2016 12:52 AM            

What it really means to me, the energy with which that thought comes, is like this:

When I honour myself, others sense it. When I respect myself uncompromisingly, others can't but do so...

When I leave holes, when I indulge.. When I do things to myself I know aren't good... (I see us each as a microcosm of the earth herself), I create spaces in my life for others to disrespect me... my disrespect creates waves.

His Pluto Hygieia on my Dejanira...

Dejanira is not an innocent victim... she knows what she does...

I have been healing myself of casting blame on others for that which I knowingly subject myself to...

It's shadow work, and I don't really expect everybody to understand.

I'm not really saying people deserve what they get either, it isn't black and white like that...

posted September 13, 2016 01:51 PM            

I want to live with trust and such... in the goodness and openness of people, but I just am being made aware of how things get twisted (other circumstances, long story).

posted September 13, 2016 02:10 PM            

Other people can just lend their lenses and view of a situation and sometimes it is what you need to hear, (usually when two people are in sympatico), but ultimatively noone else IS you, and can really judge the situation from across a keyboard.

There might be vital thoughts however, that you might think about and then either agree or disagree with. Only you can know what is true and what not.

posted September 13, 2016 02:21 PM            

I know you don't judge me ... your wisdom and perspective is so good though... and if people do have constructive criticism or a new perspective I VERY much want to hear it, very much value it... so that's why I share I guess, to get that support and stuff... I take it all as a helpful process... but... pros and cons...

Just I wish I were a little more anonymous I think.. I don't know.

I want it all to be ok I found out this morning that my friend's ex read her personal message thread with me, and it's just created so much turmoil on so many levels...

Like... D. Is a very private person... you can see from his 12th house placements, and he is very sensitive to criticism... I just shudder to think what could happen.. I on the contrary need a LOT of outside support and simulation, I believe relationships thrive from wise loving measured support from friends..n he doesn't talk to ANYONE about ANYTHING... this forum is like my anonymous safe haven.. but..

I feel guilty about exposing him energetically even on here... am going to stop sharing about him if I can.. I want to honour him not do anything to hurt or compromise trust you know..

Although honestly I think he knows I talk about our relationship on here... actually he totally knows... so it's freaking confusing... what's even going on? Argh..

posted September 13, 2016 02:38 PM            

So we can just shut up to make them happy, but then we will be less happy and have to end it. As it often happens.

Unless the guy is perfect.

Which may be the whole point. Find someone who doesn't make you feel like you have to ask others for advice about him, or reassure you about him.

(?) Just tossing out some ideas.

posted September 13, 2016 02:47 PM            

You are so wise!!

We shouldn't have to fear our intimate partners. We need to have outlets, we need to have support. We should keep on finding it. If people aren't strong enough to answer for their own meanness and be accountable to a community of people who are supporting those they've hurt, that's their problem, and shouldn't be put upon the one seeking support.

If you don't want people to know about your actions then you should change them! Own up, realize everybody's on the same side, looking out for each other and being understanding.

I don't think many people are capable of trusting others to be loving and unbiased and non judgmental, which we actually are... because we all know that it takes two to tango... and we are all learning and growing through these relationships..

posted September 13, 2016 02:54 PM            

It's the thing we all need to learn to do... share. That's what heals the world.

I have this beautiful vision of a large enough tribe or community, where when you have enough people together every single point on the wheel is illuminated, everybody is having their needs met....

The choice is between isolation and fear of judgment, or openness, trust, compassion, understanding, transparency, accountability and love!

I want to choose the latter. Both have risks but as you say the effects of giving into the first one are.. well.. separation and isolation!!

We need friends. So do men! This is part of the revolution which needs to occur if we're going to heal the terrible societal gender programming which has isolated men and made them fearful of themselves! They have been programmed to not share about their feelings and that's so hard for them...

posted September 13, 2016 03:01 PM            

That's just it...WE all know that your intentions are good, and that you love D, and this is just YOU, your perfect self working on a problem...but he might not have all that information up front if he stumbled on this. Maybe there would be misunderstanding and fear, because he wouldn't know the whole context immediately. And maybe he wouldn't stick around to grasp the full context. (?)

Just like with my husband. He might see me talking about how much I loved my ex, or even tossing out a slightly minorly flirtatious comment to a guy here once in a blue moon, but the major story is: everyone knows I'm married, and I've said many many good things about my husband. And too bad there are some things that aren't perfect about him, but hey NOBODY is perfect, so let's just face that reality and it's okay.

My husband might think I'm worse than I am, that my eye wanders more than it actually does...but he might be encouraged by how much devotion I've exhibited here, over the years. If he stuck around to analyze it.

Just like, who knows, maybe D would actually be touched by how intricately you have studied him, and genuinely taken his side, even when you had nothing to gain with him by doing so. So perhaps he would see even more of the depth of your honesty.

posted September 13, 2016 03:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Haha Lindaland is my primary relationship... :P I get too much benefit from sharing.

It's the thing we all need to learn to do... share. That's what heals the world.

I have this beautiful vision of a large enough tribe or community, where when you have enough people together every single point on the wheel is illuminated, everybody is having their needs met....

The choice is between isolation and fear of judgment, or openness, trust, compassion, understanding, transparency, accountability and love!

I want to choose the latter. Both have risks but as you say the effects of giving into the first one are.. well.. separation and isolation!!

We need friends. So do men! This is part of the revolution which needs to occur if we're going to heal the terrible societal gender programming which has isolated men and made them fearful of themselves! They have been programmed to not share about their feelings and that's so hard for them...

They try to make us also clam up, because that's what they were taught to do.... perhaps...

---

posted September 13, 2016 03:09 PM            

Oh noooooo!!!

But again, WE all know how much you love him so what's there to fear?