posted September 08, 2016 05:50 PM            

Well, the last square in the synodic cycle approaches, sept 10... and my next Venus return also is coming up.

I've known since I realized our timing in November that this last square would be a time of deciding what is real about our relationship (in its present incarnation).

I was lying in bed with.him.last night thinking it has to end, and when he called me today I knew he was thinking the same. It took him some time to get around to.it. but then those words,"I'm not sure about us," you know.. and of course not, because there has been.SO much pain, and awkwardness, and difficulty...

Transiting Saturn is presently conjunct his Jupiter (for the last time in our 9.5 month long relationship), and Neptune is square his Jupiter. Jupiter rules his Sagittarius descendant, so these transits are pivotal for relationships for him. He has a natal Jupiter Uranus conjunction square my nodes, and so Saturn is again squaring my nodes, of course.

I just wanted to come on here and sort of open this thread so that if I have to I can write it out, and maybe receive encouragement whatever happens.

We both cried a lot and said we loved each other, but we know something.needs to change. I have Jupiter conjunct vertex, he has Saturn conjunct vertex... I'm always the one to be posi and optimistic... so of course think things have been changing for the better... but the fact remains that there is all this pain all the time.. it just isn't flowing... can't tell whether I should focus on the positive or let the reality of the difficulty overwhelm everything...

It just is still super awkward and painful so much of the time trying to coexist and just.lying beside one another is this exquisite torture... It's been.so long.and we're both still terribly insecure, but sometimes it's so beautiful and the deepest security and love comes through..

It was nice.how we cried on the phone and he spoke of past breakups being terrible and violent and final.this isn't that way which is a blessing.

We're trying to see things realistically... we have SO MUCH in common and our experiences of the relationship seem congruent with one another's... the double whammys from each of our charts to the composite (draconic included) are staggeringly numerous, so that is no surprise.

But anyway Saturn Neptune is absolutely demanding this realistic assessment.. and I know it's a very good thing, really. So really.. I'm ok... It's going to be for the best whatever happens.

I dunno even whether to post this but I guess I'll go ahead and maybe add things as I find them/think of them/as they happen.

posted September 08, 2016 05:59 PM            

Jupiter will be exact at 0'00 Libra for me tomorrow morning at 6:52 am... conjunct my true lilith, opposite my mars, square my Saturn... it will be opposite his natal Moon very tight.

Thinking this could be an auspicious time of commitment or dissolution, especially given Saturn conjunct his descendant ruler.. it seems very much like a one or the other scenario... although he's talking about just changing something, not wanting it to end.. and neither do I, REALLY.. and yet we are both unhappy. There's pain which helps growth and there's pain which drags you down. For us with composite Pluto conjunct south node in Scorpio square our love stellium, it's hard not to be dragged down by the hard stuff.

It's his Mars in taurus and my descendant on the composite.north node in taurus... that's our main hope,

Even if it ends. It will be beautiful to let go gracefully

And a resolution of a lot lot lot of karma

Strangely though, maybe it's the composite moon trine uranus and mars... whenever we let go completely we get closer... it gets more healthy.

We both need a certain amount of detachment for the relationship to work... and yet commitment...

posted September 08, 2016 06:16 PM            

Dawn told me to look at transits to.the progressed Davison to see when stuff would happen..

posted September 09, 2016 07:46 AM            

however for some weird reason I was recommended a video of a couple therapist on you tube yesterday (I never even watched such videos. lol), and one of his videos was titled: Love is a choice.

posted September 09, 2016 10:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

We both need a certain amount of detachment for the relationship to work... and yet commitment...

Such a delicate balance

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If you both see that and agree to terms based on that, maybe there is hope?

As in, "let's only see each other on the weekends"...or something?

Might be hard to prevent yourselves from getting more entangled, reaching for the phone more often....but even harder to lose everything...

posted September 09, 2016 02:32 PM            

Saturn-Neptune, very tricky to find the right balance.
But it can also be a good thing, making intangible things tangible, but maybe only those that serve you in some way (and those are not always the ones we WANT unfortunately).

It feels to me sometimes like there is a too great pessimism and disillusionment coming with it, which is NOT a realistic perception either!
Of course living in clouds and fantasies is not realism either as well.

What CAN you change? What CAN you accomplish in this phase of your relationship`? Where do you both WANT it to go?
You`ve got to ask tough questions, yes, that`s for sure.

Ive been thinking about this, and a thought struck me this morning and that was: It is not so much about letting him go, but about giving myself/ yourself the permission to grow, even if it means growing apart, growing away from the relationship or may simply growing away from what the mental picture that exists of the relationship, how it works in the mind, how it should be.

Maybe you even can grow together. Maybe you will grow closer to each other (no matter in what form of relating), or you might grow apart.
But you have to take the risk.

You can`t keep stuck in the fog and mud, it drains your energies to hold to a dream that maybe isnīt even your dream anymore, at least not in the way it might have been before.

Things have to change.

It does not mean they have to break or disappear. It means they have to change.

Both options are equally possible though. Moving on without each other because you donīt share the same dream anymore, or working together on manifesting your dream or the real dream that has emerged from the old one.
(the real dream is always the present one btw, never the one from one year or 5 years ago).

yes, things have to change. And they do change.
Best to make the best of it and grow the way we are meant to be, even if it means having to leave the past behind, to leave our past thought patterns and wishes behind maybe.

Sorry it is Mercury rx, I cannot describe well what Imean.

Well I was sort of looking for a certain video on you tube, and what was recommended to me`?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVK6Kmaoxyk

Sorry but that was pretty much the opposite of what I was looking for to share!

But so be it then, if the universe speaks, it`s time for my mind to take a walk.

posted September 09, 2016 03:21 PM            

Natally we are both rather affected by the Saturn-Neptune-square.

Neptune conjuncts his Eros and my name in his chart (opposing his Mars, name, Jupiter and Amor) and his pVenus

Saturn conjuncts his Mercury, ruler of his DESC

Neptune conjuncts my Ceres and Jupiter, ruler of my ASC

Saturn conjuncts my Neptune, NN and ASC (3 degrees separating though)

What also struck me as significant is the transits to our respective names in the charts.

Tr Neptune conjuncts my name in his chart
Tr Pluto conjuncts his name in my chart.

But that is the progressed Davison

[/URL]

For us a T-square is formed and it involves

Tr Saturn opposite pBML 0°13 a
Tr Saturn opposite pValentine 0°15 a

Tr Neptune square pBML 0°08s
Tr Neptune square pValentine 0°10 s

There is of course more, but I just checked for the transiting Saturn-Neptune-square.

posted September 09, 2016 03:29 PM            

[/URL]

What got my attention first was the Grand trine of

[Valentine conjunct Atropos] trine Chiron trine Moon on DESC.

And yes of course I saw the nasty T-square of

posted September 09, 2016 07:12 PM            

Amazing insights here. About to go over it.point by.point.

posted September 09, 2016 07:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I guess the Grand Cross of the transiting Saturn-Neptune with your pr Davison Ceres-Chiron-square must be quite hard. a lot of painful experience being brought into the open affected by or affecting the way of nurturing each other and the relationship.

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Lol you mean our Ceres Chiron Saturn t-square (with Sun grand cross)??

I had overlooked the Ceres component...

But of course. You're absolutely right.

It's our major work in our composite, a tight Saturn Ceres square.... well apart from that lovely Pluto-SN square everything, thing.

And yes it relates to nurturing although we have some.good compensating factors (his Ceres conjunct composite Moon, my Ceres conjunct his Juno... hmm..., actually I dunno if I all the way like that one :P.. composite Ceres conjunct Jupiter (but square Saturn o course)...

Indeed a certain coldness and fearful insecurity arises which is very difficult to quell, each of us feeding our own anxiety and sense of disliking ourselves... what really needs to change is that we both need to get OVER our feelings of unworthiness because the truth is we both REALLY like each other and don't really want to be without the other...

But indeed, the mother love factor being squashed on by Saturn totally isn't helping... It's like transiting Saturn is to our Davison Ceres right now what davison/comp Saturn is to davison/comp Ceres...fascinating.

Really though, I think it largely references our struggle to parent my daughter together harmoniously.. I find Ceres often speaks to parenting dynamics specifically... And this is a HUGE source of tension...

Which is actually improving...

posted September 09, 2016 07:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Orange:
Chin up, hunny.
Saturn on Neptune is facing the reality. The hard way. My advice is - do not hold him back.
Btw, mine doesnt look flowery either.

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he still broiling over the Scorpio in the wings? That's hard stuff.

When I feel the jealousy pangs... things get so hot and angry and insensitive so fast... during our phone convo I began thinking about him getting back with his ex and although I know it's so unlikely it made me feel furious and like totally pushing him away for a second... I've got a calm place to observe my reactions from these days and I have been really observing with some amount of interest (usually in retrospect ), just how much jealousy changes my entire approach and perspective. It is really like a great roaring beast as J.K. Rowling describes it... it can set up such intense barriers to intimacy. Especially for those who demand loyalty.

posted September 09, 2016 07:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
If you both see that and agree to terms based on that, maybe there is hope?

As in, "let's only see each other on the weekends"...or something?

Might be hard to prevent yourselves from getting more entangled, reaching for the phone more often....but even harder to lose everything...

Anyway, I was just reading and sympathizing with you.

---

Well one thing I made clear after our recent spats was that I don't have expectations in terms of when and how he shows up here. He had begun apologizing for leaving during the day, and seeming ashamed for showing up late at night, and I just... don't care. I have assured him that I actually REALLY appreciate the space, and when he apologizes I feel confused cause it's like... no, I'm good... see you later!

Assumptions are just the death knell for healthy relating... never assume!!

I'm a night owl anyway, so is he, and I have a kid whose dad is far away and almost no relatives here, never have childcare, and free school/homeschool... so night time is our time to be together, and that works for us... mostly. I'm working on cooperating more with my awesome freeschooling mom friends, and getting more time to go out and be a free agent, so I could actually surprise him somewhere and just BE together for a bit...

But yeah that's one little change, is my having assured him I don't expect him to fulfill specific roles (he speaks of fearing the father role, or rather he just says roles... but his examples of fathering were abominable until he was quite a bit older)-- that actually I have always been happy about being in control in terms of huge decisions regarding my daughter, and numerous times very grateful I don't have a 'dad' who I need to consult on everything... it's just how I roll.

So that clarity is helping...

But then the fact remains that he DOES help stabilize me, he DOES catch things I don't, some of his insane safety consciousness actually really helps me (his Saturn in his natal 6th house on my ascendant, folks )

... and he can be really great with my kid. Aaaand we have a shot at actually building a life together because we have such commons dreams and goals and inspirations and stuff... LIkely it will involve living on my land, not in teh city, having separate spaces, or somewhat separate anyway... more space... and COMMUNITY around! We have an Aquarius focus in the composite for a reason! I think any relationship thrives on a healthy community surrounding it, because each individual is having their needs met in countless ways... and we KNOW we're kinad holding out for that beautiful reality. Sometimes he doubts it is going to happen, he speaks of me selling the land possibly. I have assured him recently (last night) that I am NOT going to do that and that seems to give him some more security... Anyway. rambling.

We are, as Ceri noted in the other thread, clearly both committed to continuing dialogue, and it's really good that we had that big cry on the phone really exploring peaceably and lovingly whether breaking up woiuld be the best thing... cause it opens us up to all kinds of conversations about all kinds of things, if we're capable of having THAT conversation from a loving place.. then what's there to fear?

So that was really nice

posted September 11, 2016 07:27 AM            

And I love how this is all song long about saying goodbye practically, and then there is the twist of, this is not the end, but actually it is the "end" that you have to move on from as well.

posted September 11, 2016 09:22 AM            

quote:

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Our composite Jupiter/Saturn square assures us that these ups and downs are just part of the package. One day it's amazing, one day it's hopeless... it's been that way all along...

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Yes, I understand. My husband and I have that, too.

When I love him I feel guilty for ever complaining.

When I hate him I feel like a total idiot for ever staying this long.

I don't like this up and down, and wouldn't choose it again no matter how cool the guy is. :-/

posted September 11, 2016 12:59 PM            

Faith... it's sooooooooo haaaard. I know exactly what you mean. I feel the same way.... suuuch love... And suuch... argh!!.incredible this is the same person!!... Except it makes me sad to think of going back and changing it! Or choosing something else. Yet I totally get how tempting that is... I think these ups and downs must be strengthening... they show us the highs and lows of life and guide us into an indomitable sense of our own inner strength.. maybe ... I know how tempting it is to wish it away but it's probably important facet of the whole, yadda yadda. My mom says "never regret!" Regret is the worst.

I admit it is discouraging to hear that after all these years you're still experiencing the extremes of the ups n downs! Argh! (I hope this isn't too much like quoting, I'll delete if you like--I think I really need to talk about it!)

posted September 11, 2016 01:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
I'm feeling it, too, Yun. I'm feeling it, too.

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posted September 12, 2016 10:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
I think these ups and downs must be strengthening... they show us the highs and lows of life and guide us into an indomitable sense of our own inner strength.. maybe

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Maybe.