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Author Topic:   @Todd and you lot wise mates, urgent advice needed!
Moonbeth
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posted November 01, 2019 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Anyway, this obsession you have for this guy is not healthy. I hope you let him go in your heart soon. 💓

Thank you lovely! 💓

My problem is that... as I was explaining to athenaia, in my case it was somehow healthy, even though it sounds weird. But this obsession for him actually saved me from something much worse, which was a longtime severe hopeless health condition that caused me a severe depression with suicidal plans. Falling in love with him, possible or impossible, saved my life. My depression has gone and I started to react against my illness... the depression and hopeless state has gone, three books were born and have been published, I'm still alive... the physical health issue is not over yet, but my greatest fear is that whether I lose this "obsession", I am going back to that hopeless state. And that is the least healthy thing I have experienced... but, of course, I am aware I cant go on this way forever, this is why I need to face "him". [/B][/QUOTE]

If him abandoning you didn't trigger the depression back then falling out of love with him won't. You'd be doing it, it wouldn't be done to you.
😉😘

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Hikaru29
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posted November 01, 2019 07:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
Of course this is very possible and a good explanation! And the quincunx to my Mars is not good at all

In attraction I consider all aspects good because it's better than no aspects, although this is a tense aspect.

quote:
Oh, I didnt understand you were talking about your current rs about Saturn square Moon!
I see now what you mean... so, it is challenging somehow, but not impossible to work on ? :-)

Not impossible. It's good that I don't have much Saturn harsh aspects in my chart so I'm usually not overly hard or critical. Usually when he shows me his upset face I melt.

quote:
Yes, well... Pluto square Venus and Pluto square Moon with the same person is a little too much!! For some reason, I think Pluto square Moon is even worse, cause it gets obsessive in a more intense emotional out of control way... I dont like it at all, while I can deal with Pluto square Venus much better somehow... but as you said, it depends on how individually we deal we those aspects.

Power when you put the 2 together. He was Pluto and he has a Scorpio Venus. VERY manipulative and vindictive. I almost died.

quote:
Thank you lovely! 💓

My problem is that... as I was explaining to athenaia, in my case it was somehow healthy, even though it sounds weird. But this obsession for him actually saved me from something much worse, which was a longtime severe hopeless health condition that caused me a severe depression with suicidal plans. Falling in love with him, possible or impossible, saved my life. My depression has gone and I started to react against my illness... the depression and hopeless state has gone, three books were born and have been published, I'm still alive... the physical health issue is not over yet, but my greatest fear is that whether I lose this "obsession", I am going back to that hopeless state. And that is the least healthy thing I have experienced... but, of course, I am aware I cant go on this way forever, this is why I need to face "him".


I think this is really nice, how he has helped and inspired you. I know of people who avoid having any contact with other guys/gals (depending on their sexual orientation) because they don't wanna cause strife with their partners. If that's the reason for blocking you, will you respect his decision and just keep him as a nice memory?

I think you should go and meet him and hopefully put this chapter behind. But remember to give him some shock value so he remembers you forever.

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Stoika7
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posted November 01, 2019 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
Hey love 💕,
Just go.
You want to.
You want to see him.
You're obsessed with both him and those bonkers feelings you have for him, so much so it seems the only thing that makes you hesitate is that going wouldn't live up to the 'bonkersness' of it all.
Just go.
It's not rational so don't reason, what is that thing about temptation that the only remedy is to yield to it?
Just GO lol
You need closure, can going provide it? I don't know for sure, your obsession is intense, but not going will for sure entertain it, so just go 😊


Hi darling, so good to hear from you!
Thank you so much for your encouragement!
Well, actually... My doubts are not so much about my feelings, if I could just follow my heart I would go right away... I have other problems in traveling those days, first of all my health issues, but not only that... Such a trip right now would take quite an effort so I really need to think through this and understand how worth it is or if its just crazy, lol. But your words really help, thank you!

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Stoika7
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posted November 01, 2019 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
If him abandoning you didn't trigger the depression back then falling out of love with him won't. You'd be doing it, it wouldn't be done to you.
😉😘

I dont know Moon... What you say is logical, but any time I try to "detach" and erase him from my mind, I fall in that hopeless state again... Last week I found myself wishing to leave this world again, after I had tried to erase him from my mind for few days... Its like he became my only "support"... Of course this means I have not really healed... But this is it.. And last week I was so scared to find myself in that state again. And this edpecially happen any time my physical issue comes back, unfortunately very often...

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Stoika7
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posted November 01, 2019 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hikaru29:
I think this is really nice, how he has helped and inspired you. I know of people who avoid having any contact with other guys/gals (depending on their sexual orientation) because they don't wanna cause strife with their partners. If that's the reason for blocking you, will you respect his decision and just keep him as a nice memory?

I think you should go and meet him and hopefully put this chapter behind. But remember to give him some shock value so he remembers you forever.


Sorry that you had such an horrible experience... But obviously glad you finallt moved on! I understand perfectly cause something similar happened to me with another person (we had moon square pluto!) and that was only very painful...

I do respect if he ghosted me to protect his relationship. In fact I didnt try to contact him again after he blocked my messages... I'm not sure though this only fact can help me move on, cause I had considered this since long already.

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Hikaru29
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posted November 01, 2019 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hikaru29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You don't have to erase him. Just remember him as a nice memory. You may feel that you need him in your life but it doesn't have to be like that.

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athenaia
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posted November 01, 2019 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenaia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you so much for that incredible and insightful feedback!! It helps me improve my practice

I would say that the composite definitely has very heavy, karmic energies that are so transpersonal it can be hard to ground this composite back into the physical, material world between you both. The reason I think that is such:

There is a (very wide) grand cross between Jupiter, Neptune, Mercury, and Mars.

Jupiter being the chart ruler
Mercury being the DSC ruler
Mars is the IC ruler
Neptune being the ruler of the 3rd house

So you have a whole entire axis (ASC/DSC), the most sensitive point of the chart (IC) and the ability to communicate on a basic, mundane level (3rd house) all resisting the impulse to work harmoniously together in the composite. They struggle against one another for domination, particularly with Mars as it is a malefic, and this naturally effects the composite Sun/Chiron/Venus, because Mars is the dispositor of everything in the 4th house.

So even the Sun/Chiron/Venus, so gorgeously sitting in the 4th, is fraught due to the Martian energy being so stressed in the chart.

But the Sun on the IC... so cozy, comfortable, fun, audacious (Aries-energy), the kind of energy that makes you feel alive, that makes life worth living, that breathes new purpose into your soul (Aries-IC). It's being frayed because it has an opposition with Pluto, which can either be obsession (in your case or in both of your cases) or it can be repulsion (not like disgusted, but a sense of running away, which is what he did with his messages - simply dropping them without explanation - because the 3rd house ruler is in a grand cross!)

The Moon is beautiful in Cancer, and in the 7th house she operates charmingly, but she is square Chiron and Venus in the 4th. So the ability to love is tempered with a sharp, humiliating sort of pain (square to Chiron) and the love cannot operate well with the style of seduction (square Venus) in the composite.

I hate to see Saturn on an angle and I speak from experience as my ex boyfriend and I had it conjunct the IC. With it on your DSC, I would imagine that the romantic aspect of this relationship is anchored down into the deep blue sea, in that Mariana Trench, and unwrenching the anchor is a task that is not fit for any mere mortal. It's also anchored down by the SN, giving it an even more karmic flavouring.

This is conjunct his natal Venus in Gemini, so things could have felt SUPER heavy for him from the very beginning, like the bells of fate were tolling, and Gemini Venus (stereotypically) tends to run away from such baggage out of some primal, feral, instinctual fear that is difficult for them to explain


Your Sun/Venus/Juno falls into the 2nd house of the composite and is even conjunct the c. Juno so it makes sense why you desire to possess him, make him yours, why you feel an innate ownership over him and a deep and abiding loyalty towards him (2nd house being the house of Taurus)

His Sun falls into the c.H5 and his Moon falls into the c.H9 so certainly talking to you was extremely fun and stimulating for him, I'm sure he gleaned a lot of artistic insights from you (H5) as well as probably loves your culture, ancient Rome even, mid-century Italian movies (H9)

Thre is a cardinal t-square between Uranus, Venus, and the Moon (somewhat wide, but still) so the nature of this connection was never going to have stability, which both of you desire (you're super fixed and so is he, though you can role with the Uranian punches better than him because you're an Aquarius)

There is a loose mystic rectangle between Pluto, Neptune, Sun, and Mars so certainly not all is doom and gloom here, this is the alluring and harmonious siren's song that pulls you both in and creates the sort of rare harmony that seems like destiny, for sure..

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todd
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posted November 01, 2019 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for todd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:
hi Stoika7
well the first I noticed, is your Uranus will be square the transiting node on dec 11 by a few arc minutes... so I think you will go no matter what the transits say.

looking at the composite again, it certainly looks like a past life connection with the vertex on the descendent and opposed to pluto. but it may be that you were just peripherally known to each other.but ebeven with familiarity in a past life,it looks like a harsh connection with orucus/moon/Lilith conjunct, square to chiron. orcus adds to the likelihood this was a past life connection which may account for the spell this has put over you.the chiron square though emphasizes the contentious nature of this past life interaction.
with venus square to Uranus, the sexual/emotional component is very intense but not stable. it is not difficult to see a violent past life here.

(edited)

todd


hi again
rechecking my work in light of the discrepancy to your experience, I found I used the wrong meeting date in the tricomposite, so I will interpret the transits for dec 11 2019 noon over.

first off, amazingly ixion is again exactly conjunct the ascendant to 1 arc minute.though I used the noon time and I don't know when the meeting will happen in actuality, I still feel ixion will color the proposed meeting. ixion is prone to wilful aggression and violence if offended. though venus is here trine to ixion which likely would ameliorate the harsher sentiments of ixion .
but still with the Pluto/orcus square and with the midpoint opposed to venus and square top the node,the emotional interactions would be cordial at best and potentially very cold.mercury is square to pluto and orcus a great distance would be present and I would not expect him to be open to explaining his feelings or past actions.

Jupiter is opposed to chiron and eris which could give a enjoyment to your discussions. chiron and Jupiter show very intellectualized conversation with critical analysis of the subject matter of this meeting. so professionally ,you might gain insight to common interest.

pallas is conjunct to juno and these are trine to Saturn so the existing longing for a substantial relationship are still here..
in addition the sun is square to the Lilith/vertex. again this is using noon as the defining time of the meeting.so the sun's position shows the deep upwelling of feelings between you.
along with the Jupiter aspects ,these pattern show a very social and pleasant interactions, though the emotional reservation between you would remain.it might be a these "intellectual" musings might reignite the sense of friendship and lead to some of the healing you need with him.

the Jupiter/juno midpoint is conjunct to ixion. this could show that professional; difference might cause some friction and it definitely emphasizes to not try to open up the past.

the mars/Venus midpoint is square to Uranus so the strong sexual/emotional attraction and affection will still be strong, but obviously it is unrealistic to expect anything to come of this.

with pallas conjunct juno sextile to the sun and the sun, sextile to Saturn, and Saturn sextile to the moon, the transits are very favorable that the meeting would advance your knowledge of the nature of the meeting and very possible would establish a common supportive understanding with each other. this might even establish a basis for future collaborations or friendly social correspondence.

so I would have to say you should go to the meeting, but again to not let any emotional yearnings intrude into the platonic nature of the interactions with him.

this is pure speculation but he might have his own misgiving about "ghosting" you when he became involved with his current amore, and this meeting might be a good chance for him to realize you have been affected by him on much higher level than just the physical plane.

todd

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Moonbeth
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posted November 01, 2019 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
I dont know Moon...

Always lovely to hear from you too my lovely 💕
even though I wish I didn't have to read that your health is giving you such a difficult time...

I agree with Hikaru, you don't have to erase him. If you forgive someone for taking something that's yours, it doesn't mean they have returned it, if you let your children go and follow their dream in a foreign land, it doesn't mean you stop being their mother... in time you'll find a way to let him go without erasing him, you'll still witness those synchronicities you've mentioned, you'll still feel the love and inspiration, but you won't necessarily consider chasing him flights away from home or feel that your well-being depends on him. I know Pluto loves "all or nothing", but Pluto also love regenerating and starting again from scratch, that trip could be that, a decision to tackle this head on and sort it out once and for all. Whether he reacts positively doesn't even matter, just like how you reacted didn't matter when he ghosted you, you just confront and take your closure, it can work.
Going cold mean seeing him physically ghost you, that would be violent but crystal clear, or he could just talk to you as if nothing weird had happened, maybe he doesn't realise how much you've been affected, if he talks to you casually, it could hurt you just as much as the ghosting, but in both cases you'd have concrete closure (even though, we've agreed ghosting pretty much is closure), so, is it worth it?
No, because you already know. but...
Yes, because he apparently doesn't.
Maybe it's worth having a confirmation.
Maybe it's worth yelling at him and showing him how stupid he's been, every girl has an Alanis "You oughta know" in her somewhere 😝.
Maybe it's worth just re-engaging with the side of interaction that went well, professionally...
But you won't know in advance. It's a leap of faith, because if you go you put your faith in him and his power over you to give you absolution from those feelings, but also, if you go you also prove yourself that right now, despite your health and everything, you can organise and follow through with your travel plan.
So the only question really is: whether it is from him or you, are you ready to be free? 😊

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Stoika7
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posted November 02, 2019 12:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by athenaia:
I would say that the composite definitely has very heavy, karmic energies that are so transpersonal it can be hard to ground this composite back into the physical, material world between you both. The reason I think that is such:


Hi dearest athenaia, thank you so much for taking your time to read also the Composite!!

it is amazing again, cause you had a very similar interpretation to my own reading of it, but you know, it's not easy to read your own chart, for me at least, while I find much easier to look at others' charts than mine... and so you noticed a few details I hadnt noticed at all and you give a very particurlar and enlightening take that rings very true!

That Grand Cross was always my curse, I hate Grand Crosses, but I agree with pretty much everything you said. Fact is that I can't grasp what all those controversial and mixed strong aspects show in the big picture, I mean where is this heading to, what is the purpose of this, what is the link between that Grand Cross and that Mystic Rectangle, what is this weird "unearthly" karma and psychic connection about, this all still looks confused to me, or maybe it just shows an "impossible" situation, not just doomed, but simply "hard to ground this composite back into the physical, material world between you both" as you said... even so, especially if so, I cant help to wonder what is the purpose of this, "beyond" my own awareness and love, drive or "obsession, i.e., what is really connecting us two in such a powerful karmic way? The Composite chart looks unclear to me in order to find such a core nature of this connection...

Thanks again and, just wanted to ask you, did you make it to move on from your situation with that guy? How did you cope with that? I'd be curious to look at your charts if you like! ❤️

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Stoika7
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posted November 02, 2019 01:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by todd:
hi again
rechecking my work in light of the discrepancy to your experience, I found I used the wrong meeting date in the tricomposite, so I will interpret the transits for dec 11 2019 noon over.


Dear Todd, cant thank you enough for taking your time again about this !!

If exact time changes anything in the tricomposite, the event will occur at 6:00 PM and it will last about two or three hours, in London, so I guess I would set the time at 7:30 PM.

Your update looks much more encouraging, and thank you also for all your lovely advices.

The intellectual and common interest is certainly there, and I certainly expect some distance and coldness from his part (and me likely acting so as well in order to control my emotions!), what I am not sure about is if I can be in control of my emotions enough to not go in panic as soon as I see him, this means (I know myself!) my initial reaction might likely be to run away or just to not have the guts to approach him foolishly screwing it all up, more than his attitude towards me, lol

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Stoika7
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posted November 02, 2019 01:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:

So the only question really is: whether it is from him or you, are you ready to be free? 😊

I'm eager to be free!!! But not ready to be free from him, lol

❤️

quote:
Going cold mean seeing him physically ghost you, that would be violent but crystal clear, or he could just talk to you as if nothing weird had happened, maybe he doesn't realise how much you've been affected, if he talks to you casually, it could hurt you just as much as the ghosting, but in both cases you'd have concrete closure (even though, we've agreed ghosting pretty much is closure), so, is it worth it?

I expect him to be nice, since he's always nice, but like as if nothing has happened and I am sure 100% he doesnt slightly imagine how much he has affected me. So, no, it wouldnt hurt me, cause just having a chance to talk to him for five minutes would be a dream come true. Am I "too" adoring him? Of course!

If I have a closure, this wouldnt depend from his attitude. This would depend on my feelings only towards him, cause I need to understand what I feel, not what he feels, first of all. So, I have no clue if I will find closure. It might even be that seeing him doesnt change anything at all of my feelings, no matter how he acts, and so I wouldnt really find any closure, also cause his behaviour might mean thousands different things that I just could not understand... I can only understand my own feelings, not his.
I cant really predict anything, honestly my only drive to go there is only about seeing him, seeing the man I madly love since four years. And understand what I feel.

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Moonbeth
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posted November 02, 2019 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
I'm eager to be free!!! But not ready to be free from him, lol

❤️


That, right there, everything is in there, when you solve the contradiction in this sentence is when you heal from it all.

That said, I do understand, when we are trapped in things we have no control over, especially health, it can feel easier to trap ourselves into other things, just to have control, it's how some addictions work too... but as you see, it doesn't help the core of the matter. Freedom isn't a part time thing, chaining yourself to your feelings for him won't ever make you free from your health issues, you know that. You have merged these two things because of how beneficial falling for him has been, but they remain two very different things that need to be addressed separately.

I don't find you too adoring, you're in love (I have venus sextile pluto remember? I get big feelings lol), it's the lack of reciprocity I don't compute very well. It is one definition of true love to love regardless of what you get, but at a certain point, it's almost self-abusive. You deserve your feelings to be requited. Even if he doesn't romantically love you, you deserve him realising your feelings for him and him treating them right, not ghosting you, apologising for having done so, respecting you enough to address those. He doesn't have to return the love to return something, and I know you'll say he's given you so much, but love isn't a one way street, it's quite selfish at times and I feel here you're not being selfish enough and it's nothing noble, it's just short selling you.
Of course closure comes from within, but that doesn't mean you can't ask of people to make their move in that direction, I'm pretty sure it's called friendship


I do expect a Brit to always be nice too if just seeing him is a dream, then go, we can all need a bit of dream
Only you can decide how much it will affect you anyway, I think you should do what you know you want to do, whatever that is

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Stoika7
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posted November 02, 2019 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moonbeth:
That, right there, everything is in there, when you solve the contradiction in this sentence is when you heal from it all.

That said, I do understand, when we are trapped in things we have no control over, especially health, it can feel easier to trap ourselves into other things, just to have control, it's how some addictions work too... but as you see, it doesn't help the core of the matter. Freedom isn't a part time thing, chaining yourself to your feelings for him won't ever make you free from your health issues, you know that. You have merged these two things because of how beneficial falling for him has been, but they remain two very different things that need to be addressed separately.



Yes, I am well aware of this. Fact is that my health condition has no solution, and my lack of freedom as well. So, yes I have no control over this. But I prefer love as an addiction, than to chemicals, such as anti-depressant which most people with my same issue usually have to become addicted by in order to not wishing to die. And, I also prefer art and writing as an addiction. Much better an addiction than to live forced in lying down and spend your life in looking at the ceiling.

quote:
I don't find you too adoring, you're in love (I have venus sextile pluto remember? I get big feelings lol), it's the lack of reciprocity I don't compute very well. It is one definition of true love to love regardless of what you get, but at a certain point, it's almost self-abusive. You deserve your feelings to be requited. Even if he doesn't romantically love you, you deserve him realising your feelings for him and him treating them right, not ghosting you, apologising for having done so, respecting you enough to address those. He doesn't have to return the love to return something, and I know you'll say he's given you so much, but love isn't a one way street, it's quite selfish at times and I feel here you're not being selfish enough and it's nothing noble, it's just short selling you.
Of course closure comes from within, but that doesn't mean you can't ask of people to make their move in that direction, I'm pretty sure it's called friendship

My problem is that I am not sure at all it was unrequitted. But even so, I dont see how the only awareness of that can make you stop loving someone. I dont think love is about recirpocity, as the average mindset dictates. I am unable to erase my feelings, that would be suppressing, not "moving on", I feel that suppressing my feelings is much more self-abuse than just accept of not being reciprocated. I think this is also a form of freedom. I am still in love with my exes, I moved on and detached from those unhealthy relationship, but I have never stopped loving them. How do you stop loving? At almost 50 years old, I have no clue really. But everyone has their own way to love or stop loving or selfish reasons to love or to stop loving, I guess.


quote:
I do expect a Brit to always be nice too if just seeing him is a dream, then go, we can all need a bit of dream
Only you can decide how much it will affect you anyway, I think you should do what you know you want to do, whatever that is

I had a friend who followed a dream and he was killed. But what he did in following his dream saved other people's lives. He used to say, "A winner is a dreamer who never gives up" ;-)

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Moonbeth
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posted November 03, 2019 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
...I had a friend who followed a dream and he was killed. But what he did in following his dream saved other people's lives. He used to say, "A winner is a dreamer who never gives up" ;-)

Exactly, that's why I was saying it, it was not judging in any way, I perfectly understand, if you can't be free you should at least be free to choose your chains. But addiction-love and love-love are not exactly the same, that's the big Pluto lesson. It doesn't mean you have to forego of yours, addiction-love is a form of love and if you're not healthy why should your love be? I have a ****** up relationship to one of my cousins, but she is a royal **** -up, so why would any of us try to alter the relationship? lol It works brilliantly, we both are ourselves in this, all incompatibility and different lifestyles included xD The key is "as long as it's not detrimental"
What matters is that you find what you need and want in this. Healthy or not comes secondary in your case, because the cards you have in hands are not fair, so why should you play fair?

awww don't make me say what I didn't. I certainly am not a "I love you if you love me" person, I find that repulsive and egotist. That said, it's just as low and "fake" to think that as humans our true love is loving others with no reciprocity at all etc... I mean we can, but it's a different type of love. Again, not judging, but let's have everything where it should be. The worst thing about the human ego is it never wanes. Even with the lowest self-esteem, not able to wipe your own bum... the human ego will demand its birth right; it's a part of the survival instinct. What I'm saying is don't pretend it's not there in you just because you can't fulfil all of its desires in this situation. There's a difference with loving someone from a distance not knowing whether it's unrequited or not and being fine with them ghosting you. I am not opposing two radical concepts; I am talking about the grey here.
Knowing for sure that it was unrequited isn't what makes you stop being so in love. I was basing this on personal experience, but I can completely hear that what is true for me may not be for you and that's all ok, it still doesn't make me some kind of fake trash who only loves conditionally IF they love me back
For me love is everything, it's whole and pure and doesn't need anything in return, so naturally I did love people who didn't love me because I too felt that my love needed no reason. Then one day I began to think of these overbearing mothers who smother their children with love and literally make them dysfunctional adults simply by loving them the "wrong way". I never thought there could be a wrong way to love, but you have to admit there are inappropriate ways to, when the love simply doesn't match the person. In your case the way you love matches you so it's all good. In my case, it didn't, because I need to respect and honour as I love and I felt lusting over someone who didn't lust over me, having profound love feelings for him while he was developing similar feeling for others... it was almost like raping him, as if I was intruding in his feelings. I started to feel bad when he smiled at me and I felt so happy, because I knew that to him it was just polite smiling and it reminded me how I felt when I politely smiled to men and they took it for a cue to touch me or try to force themselves on me, and I felt even if I would never behave that way, the perversion of what was given to me was exactly the same. And like that loving him became about respecting what he was giving me, honouring it as it was and not about my selfish feelings (because in love the line between selfless and selfish is so thin and it snaps into its opposite so fast, it's quite amazing lol). What I felt was selfless love, was selfish projection. I ended up loving him in a way that made me fall out of love with him because I loved him for what he was and he was not in love with me, so this part of it lost strength as it had no echo. I still love him, like the good person he is, but I don't "love" him like "OMG my impossible love" anymore. Reciprocity isn't a transaction, it's not I love you because you love me, I go down on you if you go down on me.... those are rubbish. Reciprocity is a wonderful phenomenon that happens when true love is around and knowing it's not at hand because the person doesn't love me (not back, just doesn't love me), it pushes my feelings on the friendship side because in time, I know love that isn't reciprocated won't live, just like a conversation where only one person speaks will wane. It's exactly like that; loving with no return is like talking alone. It's not bad, but it's not about the other person, it's not something pure and benevolent, it's just adoration that you nurture within yourself. And again, it's fine, but it's not human love, it's divine love, love for idols.

You get this wrong, no one mentioned erasing the feelings but you, what I said was redirect them. Of course erasing your feelings is stupid and inefficient and just as toxic as entertaining them, but it doesn't have to be black and white (you hear me Pluto? There are other options than life or death ) You can be in a place where you don't bother so much (either by thinking about him at every synchronicity or by actively trying not to, and I agree, that is such a pointless effort)
Accepting the feelings aren't reciprocated isn't self-abusing, it's keeping on not accepting that, by doubting it and looking for more "last talks" when all has already been said, that is.
I'll be the devil's advocate here, Stoika, dear, if you really had accepted it's one way love as you've said, would you have made this post? If as you say just talking to him for 5 minutes would be a dream come true, then you wouldn't want to know more, it would be enough, you'd be ok with you being in love and him not, and you'd just go, like any person who adores the pope or Chris Hemsworth goes to meet them at an event, full of love that those people couldn't even begin to reciprocate as they don't know them, and bask in their casual thankfulness for the adoration.
If you accepted that he ghosted you and married someone else, and you still love him regardless and it's noble selfless love, then you wouldn't doubt it was or not unrequited, you wouldn't want to know what the stars think of the energies of the meeting because you would accept that the relationship is set regardless of the energies: you love him and he doesn't.
Of course it's a form of freedom, when you decide to be a prisoner, you made the free choice to be shackled, no question about that. But then you should accept the chains, not try to find subtle ways out. Isn't trying to talk to someone who ghosted you resisting the shackles you have chosen to put in yourself a bit too much?
That's what the devil's advocate say.

Indeed we all have reasons and ways to love and not love and all those ways are BOTH selfless and selfish, that's what we are as humans. But you looking for a handbook on how to stop loving at almost 50 is not sincere. You know deep down inside how to move on, we all do, we decide to or not. I carry a few big wounds with me, one in particular I have decided not to heal from, because.... for so many deeply personal reasons I don't want to move on. If I wanted to I know I would, it's as simple as that, moving on is all about truly, sincerely wanting to. That's what triggers your inner creativity and makes the Pluto in you direct its nuclear energies towards creation rather than sinking into dark depth. But you need to want to and right now it's not what you want, you want to see him and you want to know how he'll react seeing you. It's neither accepting of his earlier reaction nor wanting to move on at all. You just are not there, yet or not, time will tell, but as of now, you are not there, and it's all alright, you don't have to explain it, defend, it or argue in its favour, it's just where you are now

>>>>> "A winner is a dreamer who never gives up" ;-)

And Einstein said "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

Only you know which one applies to you love, I sure know bonkers is fine

I'm probably not going to be around a lot because of work, please do let us know if you decided to go and how it went. Whatever you decide all I wish for you is you own to your decision and celebrate it

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Stoika7
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Posts: 635
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted November 03, 2019 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Moonbeth,
I appreciate you share and care, but I do think you're judging indeed, since you seem talking like if you know already everything about the situation and my intentions and his feelings and everything that has happened, but I dont think this is a place where I can tell all the story and I have said even too much... I made this post on an astrological forum to have advice about transits for a meeting, not on a psychology forum where I ask advice for how my love is sane or insane, or opinion if my intention is sincere or not and what kind of love it is (this is enough judging to me).

That said, it's really much simplier than that. I need to see him because I have been wandering in the darkness for four years, wondering what the hell is going on with someone who I had an amazing time with and who, when I told him I was going to leave in three days, was very disappointed, and then searched me and established a scary and crazy telepathic connection (I didnt believe in these things before and I cant explain how much I have been scared by this), and then ghosted me with no explanation. If the feeling wasnt so powerful between us, I wouldnt certainly care. But it's not only that, it has been many other things, as I explained, this person changed my life in many ways. My problem is not if he loves me or to accept he doesnt, my problem is that I have to understand what really happened and what the hell is this powerful connection we have that keeps me stuck to him, I havent seen him since almost four years and until I meet him again I wont have answers for ever and I wont be able to accept anything or understand my feelings (true love? love for an idol or for someone who saved my life or inspired my books? I have no fxxxxx clue! )
So, very simply, I need to meet this person in real cause otherwise I dont even have answers to what you are talking about.

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Moonbeth
Knowflake

Posts: 369
From:
Registered: Jul 2019

posted November 03, 2019 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moonbeth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
Dear Moonbeth,
I appreciate you share and care, but I do think you're judging indeed, since you seem talking like if you know already everything about the situation and my intentions and his feelings and everything that has happened, but I dont think this is a place where I can tell all the story and I have said even too much... I made this post on an astrological forum to have advice about transits for a meeting, not on a psychology forum where I ask advice for how my love is sane or insane, or opinion if my intention is sincere or not and what kind of love it is (this is enough judging to me).

That said, it's really much simplier than that. I need to see him because I have been wandering in the darkness for four years, wondering what the hell is going on with someone who I had an amazing time with and who, when I told him I was going to leave in three days, was very disappointed, and then searched me and established a scary and crazy telepathic connection (I didnt believe in these things before and I cant explain how much I have been scared by this), and then ghosted me with no explanation. If the feeling wasnt so powerful between us, I wouldnt certainly care. But it's not only that, it has been many other things, as I explained, this person changed my life in many ways. My problem is not if he loves me or to accept he doesnt, my problem is that I have to understand what really happened and what the hell is this powerful connection we have that keeps me stuck to him, I havent seen him since almost four years and until I meet him again I wont have answers for ever and I wont be able to accept anything or understand my feelings (true love? love for an idol or for someone who saved my life or inspired my books? I have no fxxxxx clue! )
So, very simply, I need to meet this person in real cause otherwise I dont even have answers to what you are talking about.


It is not judging in terms of I'm not saying it's good or bad, that's what I meant by not judging (and it's not just "not saying", I honestly have no opinion, I don't even think it is good or bad). Now, of course I used fixed/stable elements to ground observations in, otherwise I'd pointlessly loop on forever, and those elements I have used are exclusive facts that you have provided, sometimes contradicting themselves, because, as you've said, you couldn't write the whole story. I apologise for any upset I have caused you, please hear it was no intention of mine and I only did my best with what I had, I am sorry I failed and can promise I won't do it again.
Apologies about the "insincere" comment, I didn't mean it as insincere in the heart of anything, but more like a false move, clumsy, I should have expressed myself better and which much more care if I was to open my mouth. Sorry about that too.
Please do not associate any simple analysis of simple words I would perform with psychology though; please; psychology is a very serious field and I wish not my name be associated with it as if I pretended to have any skill or credit or whatever in the matter. I am not a professional at anything and offer nothing professional or even educated. I only speak from my brain, heart... all very individual, all very subjective. Nothing I write here is worth anything regardless of whatever time or experience I'd have put into it, it remains a commoner's input.
I expected no answers from you, as I've said you needed not defend or argue about the points, I was only suggesting questions that I thought might help you if you found their answers. I am sorry that my pathetic attempt at some form of rhetoric came off as a bit of a pressuring interrogatory. You do not owe me anything, and again I am very sorry that I made you feel that way and any other unpleasant way.
I do appreciate that you made it very simpler now, because remember my first reply very simply was "just go", which fits exactly what you explain now and we ought to have both left it at that
I will be very honest saying I wasn't wishing to re-open that discussion as I feel everything I could say has been said in that other older post, but we got there, which is as much your responsibility as mine. I will honour my side and not express myself about this topic of yours anymore.

I will also take into account the larger scale of your comment and question my presence here regarding my competence, or lack thereof in terms of astrology. It makes absolute sense and I shan't question it.

Wishing you all the best in your endeavour and will be lovely to see you around about other topics
Sweetly,
Moon

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Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 635
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted November 03, 2019 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lovely Moon, it's not big deal really! I wasnt upset at all, but I just think that some speculations might just be off topic here since it would "distract" the post from the main reason it was made, which was about the transits and whether they suggested better to go or not to go... This obviously doesnt prevent anyone to express their own opinion and advices on the situation on its own, of course it all helps me A LOT and I am aware you had no bad intention! I just needed to furtherly make clear what is the point for me. Consider that I'm into this madness since 4 years but it's not that in the meantime I havent considered all the reasonable things you say, they just weren't so useful in the end, so this is why I really need a "break it or make it" situation. (I have even considered the psychological support, btw, since questioning myself very harshly is what I have mainly done all this time, so much that questions from any other are really much simpler than the ones I have been asking myself !)
So please feel free to say whatever you feel like, I'm Aquarius anarchist and I'm a strong supporter of freedom of expression, I just usually feel uncomfortable when people think to be aware of situations they have never experienced (like, for instance, how the human mind can react after 17 years of seclusion for a chronic and very physically paniful disability...).
But this doesnt mean you're not completely right. I just wanted to say that I'm still trying to understand my madness and so at this moment honestly I have no answers to your arguments. ❤️

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Stoika7
Knowflake

Posts: 635
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019

posted November 03, 2019 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stoika7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Moon, just need to answer to a point though, cause I think this is the misunderstanding! I never really said that I wanted to "move on". This is what others have said. I have said "I actually need especially to understand my OWN feelings and make peace with it once and for all." To make peace with it means that I can move on or that I just realize I CAN'T move on or that I don't want to move on. I dont know yet. Obviously right at this moment I don't want to move on, and I explained why. Because he's my only support and when I tried to move on, I found myself in a much worse psychological condition. You said that this is no real solution and I agree, but the reality is that I have no better solution at this moment, and if meeting him again can help me find a better solution, then it's ok. I just know that NOT meeting him ever again is likely not changiing anything since this is what has happened for four years, nothing has changed and I havent moved on. Maybe, meeting him can be even worse, I wont be able to move on at all, or maybe I see him and realize I dont like him at all, I have idealized him completely and I am suddenly happily moving on. So what is your point exactly? That I dont want to move on ? Of course I dont want, I want to go there and see him and this will make me extremely happy and I will come back home that nothing has changed cept for the fact that maybe I'll be very inspired to write another book, and you know what, this is the only thing I really expect to happen if I go. Come back home happy for having finally seen him again, maybe I wont even talk to him, it doesnt matter. I will come back and I will write another book. :-D

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