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Author
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Topic: @stoika
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LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 28, 2020 02:34 PM
  
Hey girl! Lol another request  hope you don’t mind
You have a different way of reading charts than me which I appreciate! And I’m curious to see what you have to say about these ones. I won’t give you any context or background if you wanna test you skills and see what this dynamic is like or what is or was likely to happen etc, and I’ll be sure to provide feedback after! Both TOB accurate Female on inside http://imgur.com/a/sdRQUIa http://imgur.com/a/NfMzBSt IP: Logged |
Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted January 28, 2020 05:38 PM
Hi LunaIscariot, thanks for your request!
Aaah, tricky :-)) It's not an easy one, but I will try!
At first I had the feeling that this was a long distance relationship or with strong platonic traits, cause of the Uranus and Mercury placements and aspects... but if it's not, it's a difficult relationship at psychological level cause of the strong Chiron aspects, and it can potentially turn out toxic or abusive... He's emotionally "wounded" since his childhood and with his Chiron conjunct her Moon/NN he subconsciously finds an ideal mother figure he seems to have missed, and since this aspect is trine to his Neptune (which is opposite his ASC/Cupido) she is idealistically a nurturing figure empowering his sense of individual Self and direction in life. But his Moon is conjunct her Chiron which is square to her Sun/Uranus, a very independent Aqua trait, so this aspect can negatively her inner psychological balance that she might hardly find cause her ASC is square her Sun and together with her Chiron in 6th house square to her Uranus in 8th house she might need to dedicate herself to a much stable path towards her independence, which he might emotionally hinder. It might be that he feels like she emotionally "withdraws" from him and this is highly frustrating for him (her Moon square his Jupiter)... He has Mars square Pluto natally and his Saturn is square to her Pluto, so this is a potential abusive trait, if not in physical terms, at psychological level given the Chiron picture... They might have felt a lot of similarities and a strong sense of soulmate and intimacy at first, but with time all these subscionscious dynamics might arise.... Apparently from the Composite, their relationship has a strong intellectual trait and they seem to nurture their intellectual skills through their emotional relationship, and this might be very satisfying with the Aqua Sun... either, this can be a relationship good for learning, teaching, studying, reseaching or about foreigner culture and language, travels, in any case a relationship through which they explore new realms and where they find in each other a perfect union of the minds. Also, the Composite Juno in the 10th house looks like this could be an actual marriage. They also have a very deep intimacy and strong sexuality, and with the Chiron Moon conjunction they find the soulmate feeling again through deep intimacy, here the NN in the 5th house suggests also a playful intimacy or that their relationship started at young age or again they might potentially have a child, but again the Chiron/Moon is afflicting the Jupiter/Venus conjunction is the 7th house, so there's a strong painful side to this all damaging the relationship, especially cause Saturn in 11th house Pisces conjunct Amor gives a sense of imprisonment and painful restrictions being also opposite to Mars, and since Saturn is also quincunx North Node, this might even point to a failed marriage or in any case it looks hard for this bond to be on long terms without turning frustrating. IP: Logged |
LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 28, 2020 06:53 PM
Damn, I’m impressed! You nailed it! Almost everything resonates! 😁
This my ex and i’s charts
This WAS an extremely toxic and abusive relationship. Emotionally, mentally, and even physically (he pushed me a couple times during heated arguments, he has bad anger issues always has even as a small child), that’s the mars square Pluto TIGHT natally like you mentioned 👍 plus his moon in Scorpio (they have tempers too!). Lots of conflict, pain, brought out the worst in each other, but at first it was like a soulmate deep bonding almost instantly. And it was platonic after we broke up, FWB, for a couple years after.
It’s funny you mentioned the mother things too, because I was extremely nurturing to him and me and his mom are very similar and he would even compare us lol in a positive way. He absolutely adores his mom and they have a great relationship. He once said “he loves me as much as his mom”, which was a huge deal because he literally said he will never love anyone more than her, she’ll always be number 1, but I was equal. He puts his mom on a pedestal and for him to compare me to her and say that really matches the “idealized mother figure” thing. I also felt that unconditionally love that a mother has for her child even during our ups and downs. I’ll always care about him, just not in a romantic sense.
And yes, we had a good intellectual connection, we both like to think we’re pretty smart, in terms of being able to have intellectual or philosophical convos and share information and concepts and be on an equal level mentally to keep up with each other.
We haven’t been in each other’s lives for awhile now, I had to cut the cord because it was just that unhealthy despite how much I loved him at one point. It was for the best and I have zero regrets.IP: Logged |
Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted January 28, 2020 09:13 PM
Oh I am sorry you had such an abusive relationship, I know what a nightmare it can turn out, since I have been throught this as well and I am Aqua like you! ❤️Apparently I thought he actually had an awful relationshio with his mother cause of the Chrion placement in his 4th house square to his Jupiter/Pluto midpoint in the 5th (conjunct Vertex!) and the Moon again in the 5th square his Sun !! So I am wondering whether this strong attachment/exclusive love he feels with his mother is somehow toxic as well or something traumatic happened in his childhood triggering such attachment but in a way that hinders his emotional balance given those aspects, if I can ask ...?
Or, is she an hyper protective type of mother? Yes his Pluto/Mars square is a very aggressive aspect and with Saturn involved square to your Pluto it looks typically abusive... then your Pluto is conjunct his Vertex in your 7th and sextile to his Sun, so somehow you felt you could not escape and deeply affetcted you subconsciously..... also, with his Venus on your 8th house square to your Moon conjunct his Chiron in 5th, the dynamic mother/child was a strong subconscious projection but with those negative aspects unfortunately doesnt look like it was "healing" but painful instead.... and this is reflected in the Composite Moon/Chiron square to Jupiter/Venus, but I bet in the end you made it to defend yourself well, gained strenght and moved on, with your Mars trine your Aqua Sun/Uranus, making you free from such burden :-)) With your actual love you have such a lovely Composite stellium with also Amor and Neptune involved, this looks like the ideal love/dream come true! Also, the Saturn/Juno/Cupido trine Jupiter is a strong bond of love and very favourable for long term/marriage. This looks like a reward and lucky fate with Vertex also involved... it is also sextile to Mercury, so you have a wonderful communication and instant understanding... Also, the Ceres/Eros conjunct DSC gives a very deep and sweet intimacy, with a strong sense of caring towards each other, and with NN trine Mars and sextile to Mercury/Venus you might enjoy making plans together and share common activities/intellectual interests... You might feel emotionally "distant" sometimes as you might experience diffierent feelings in different times, and so you might be puzzled or wondering about how he feels in some circumstances, since he has a moody side but he doesnt lack of self assertiveness so in the end whatever might leave you wondering about him is inspiring rather than frustrating.... He seems to feel the bond with you strongly and he is sexually very attracted to you, I see a strong pull in the synastry Mars/Pluto opposition with Amor involved, Mars trine Mars/Eros, and obviously Composite Mars sextile Moon and trine Pluto... Composite Mars square Jupiter shows a strong individuality, this might point to some selfish attitude from his part or that he might rule on decisions or some kind of stubborn attitude, but it might just be an acceptable personality trait. Honestly, my only concern in the Composite is Saturn square North Node, this looks like an external energy might hinder some of your future plans or that some earthly common projects might not work out well.
But it's sooo good to know you have found this wonderful person, it does look like true love !!! ❤️❤️❤️ Oh, if you dont mind and have time, I had asked your opinion about my "impossible love" who I cannot move on from since three years :-( ...but I guess you missed the post since you werent around those days!! Would you mind to give a check? ...I am aware it's all highly very difficult, but I'd like mainly to understand how he feels about me and why I can't move on... I met him again in december and it all was wonderful like the first time we met, and I strongly felt that something very intense and powerful is between us.... but unfortunately he's married and we live far away, and most of all, it seems impossible for me to forget him 😢😢😢 It is here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/009364.html 🙏❤️
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LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 28, 2020 10:08 PM
Actually yes I think you’re on to something with his mom. I know they went thru some struggles when he was younger, would butt heads. But he was SUCH a difficult child!!, lots of behavioural problems it was insane. But I think there might be some unhealthy attachment/co-dependency.
But she’s DEF the overprotective type. I heard her say once “you hurt my kids, I’ll hurt you!!”. She’s typical Scorpio moon overprotective mom lol.
I know Scorpio moon has a bad rep for relationship with mom, but for some reason it’s actually the opposite a lot of the time in the charts I see,
They have one of the best parent-child relationships I’ve ever seen.They’re like best friends. He still lives with her by choice, they just get along. She is the ONLY human on this planet he respects, trusts or that can tell him anything. He’s such a mush ball with her and vice versa. I swear, one Christmas he was upset he didn’t have money to buy her anything, so I got her some stuff and said it was from him. He’s never been nicer to me!! and the way he looks at her is like pure love, his whole face softens and he looks like a puppydog lol. He’s hella protective of her too, she’s a twin and I’m honest so I seen a pic of her twin and was like “they’re both pretty but her sister just a bit more, there’s always one better looking one lol” not mean or anything and he was like “don’t talk **** about my mom!” 🤣.
Even if it is unhealthy in some way, I think every parent hopes their kid loves and cares about them that much. I know I do! He would take a bullet for her and vice versa.
Like he’s the type that when she gets old. He will go over their everyday to visit and make sure she’s ok and take care of her. Any time we would go get food somewhere, he would be thoughtful and make sure to get her something too etc. She calls him the best son everyday and he honestly is to her.
Funny enough; he actually HATES his dad. Mom and dad separated when he was like 6. Never had a good relationship with him, and is currently (and he said at least the next 20 years) not on speaking terms. He almost got into a physical fight with him 2 years ago at a dinner. His dad is a prick though haha I don’t like him either. I think maybe it’s because even when he acted unlovable as a kid like some demon spawn, for whether reason. She never stopped loving him. Never sent him away to his dad, or to foster care etc. Like she knew deep down he was good (because he is), he can be extremely sweet, considerate, thoughtful, generous, loyal, and trustworthy etc. He does have strong water after all, he is deep down really sensitive and does have feelings and he does TRY to be a good person and better then be used to be, I know this. He’s way better than he was when he was a kid that’s forsure lol. So that’s a good thing 👍. It must be a karmic thing he has to work through, the anger thing.
Especially with his mars being R. They say R planets can show that. Honestly, I wonder if he was sexually abused in his childhood and that’s why he acted out. I know mars square Pluto almost always show up that way in girls charts, maybe same for men. IP: Logged |
LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 28, 2020 10:25 PM
And yes I’m happy to take a look at yours. i will look at your charts right now! Check back in a couple hours! 😊IP: Logged |
Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted January 28, 2020 11:39 PM
Very intersting Lunal about your ex and his mother and his father, his saturn is square to Jupiter in 5th and Jupiter is square to Chiron in 4th, so these aspects match with the fact he had/has such a bad relationship with his father and this is what likely affected his childhood and maybe explains why he was "unlovable as a kid", and actually his Chiron is also opposite Saturn in Pisces, which is also a painful placement for Saturn and gives a deep inner wound since childhood, so maybe he wasnt abused physically but pshycologically, and that's why he developed such attachment to his mother who was so lovely in any case and overprotective... Big thank you for checking my chart, obvioously no rush !!! 🙏❤️ IP: Logged |
LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 30, 2020 10:11 PM
Stoika I was meaning to ask you, and I think this will be very helpful for others as well,
What are the main abusive or toxic/bad relationships aspects, pattens or asteroids you see?
You mentioned Saturn square Pluto, any others? IP: Logged |
Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted January 31, 2020 12:18 AM
Hi lovely!!Do you mean in your charts with your ex or in general? I think Saturn square Pluto on its own mainly signals a clash of wills and a sense of heavy oppression... with the Mars square in the picture it all becomes much more aggressive and I think even Mars square Pluto on its own can be more toxic/abusive than Saturn vs Pluto, always depeending on the context. But let's say that a Mars/Pluto/Saturn square on its own, without other awful aspects, I believe to be enough "toxic" on its own. Added to this, in the Composite with your ex, we also have Chiron/Moon square Lilith, which on its own can suggest a very deep intimacy and "true love" feelings but with a subtle psychological dynamic of conflict, but in addition to the picture we have Chiron square Venus and Mars square Psyche, so it is the man (mars) who puts a psychological burden and possible heartbreak (Chiron square Venus) to the woman, or deep unhappyness to her (Moon square Jupiter), and this all is worsen by Saturn opposite Mars, which can again bring an abusive trait to the relationship suggesting the man is ruling and putting restrictions... Other general abusive aspects can be given from Nessus and Orcus hard contacts, and Pluto squares to Chiron, Saturn or Moon or Mars, and I would consider also Lilith. And then Saturn and/or Mars and/or Nessus in bad aspects to Chiron. EDIT: I forgot! I think that also a Neptune/Saturn or Neptune/Pluto square if there are also other nasty aspects can signal abusive/toxic traits... IP: Logged |
LunaIscariot
Knowflake Posts: 3570
From:
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted January 31, 2020 05:14 AM
Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Appreciate you insight 😊 I’m going to go look at my charts of known abusive relationships and see if I find those pattens there  What do you think of these charts? Curious what you think of this synastry in general. And that Dw moon hard aspect to Chiron.... does it look like it can turn abusive or toxic?
http://imgur.com/a/xQtW1Ww
http://imgur.com/a/bRe30vo These are my parents charts. Super abusive... cheating, violence etc. Classic narcissist/codependent relationship. Unfortunately still together too 25 years. http://imgur.com/a/0WCQWpV http://imgur.com/a/O0Bna5P IP: Logged |
Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted January 31, 2020 07:18 PM
For the first couple, it doesn't seem highly toxic, but not even much healthy... The Composite Mars/Neptune opposition is a bit frustrating, with the Kite it could have been worked through, but the Saturn square to Neptune makes any attempt fail... Here the male might be ruling things in a way that she's emotionally turned off, maybe he has some kind of inferiority issue in dealing with her, he might need impose his ideas, with Composite Mars in third house square Chiron and Uranus square to this their communication is harsh, it might become aggressive and painful words might be used against each other, leaving cold feelings. Also Chiron square NN in 4th house and also square MC gives a deep sense of failure to the relationship... With the stellium they seem to have felt true love, but Saturn in Aries square to Neptune seems to give a subtle malicious trait, with lots of control issues. Saturn in 12th house can also signal that a real stability and direction/future plans are hard to find.As for your parents, the Composite Chiron conjunct ASC square to Mars/MC literally says that this is a very painful union. Chrion in 12th house with the Sun in the same house opposite Pluto looks like it's almost impossible for them to let go, but with Pluto square to Mars/Jupiter midpoint, it is almost a masochist/self-damaging pattern in keeping to stay together... Saturn in 2nd house quincunx Jupiter shows that this all is very unstable and they might have tried to break up many times, but somehow the bond was kept... Neptune square Mercury square Saturn signals also big misunderstandings and painful words... with Jupiter square Pluto opposite Sun the man's or both their career might have been a reason of conflicts and arguments. the Pluto/Uranus midpoint is conjunct Vertex, square Mars and opposite Chiron, the feeling is that such a toxic pattern is fated and none of the two is able to escape it... Pluto quincunx Moon/Venus is again a strong controlling aspect and difficult to let go. In symastry there's also a clear toxic pattern. The blue Chiron is conjunct the red Saturn in Aries, and this is square to the red Orcus/DSC... The blue Moon/Nessus in 12th house looks very painful, this is someone who might be abused since childhood and have accepted the same abusive pattern all their life, this is square to the red Sun and Pluto, and quincunx to the red Mars, so they have suffered big oppression and aggresion from the red person, also verbally cause the red person has an aggressive way to express themselves with their natal Nessus square Mercury and Mars... But this is all very karmic cause of the NN conjunct Sun and NN conjunct Mars aspects. The blue person might suffer from depression and might always feel guilty for things they have actually no fault. They can also be harsh against the red person, but then they regret and forgive...
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Hikaru29
Knowflake Posts: 2397
From: Asia
Registered: Nov 2018
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posted February 03, 2020 05:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Stoika7:
I think Saturn square Pluto on its own mainly signals a clash of wills and a sense of heavy oppression... with the Mars square in the picture it all becomes much more aggressive and I think even Mars square Pluto on its own can be more toxic/abusive than Saturn vs Pluto, always depeending on the context. But let's say that a Mars/Pluto/Saturn square on its own, without other awful aspects, I believe to be enough "toxic" on its own.
Hi, do you mind if I jump into this discussion? My guy has Pluto square Mars in natal and my Saturn conjunct his Mars square his Pluto. Does it mean he'll abuse me or I'll abuse him? You also mentioned composite Saturn square Nodes. Some said this is a difficult aspect, while others said it's very binding. I don't quite understand what you mean by external energy hindering future plans...can this be overcome? Also, I've been wanting to ask you about composite outer planets square/opposition among Jupiter/Saturn/Uranus/Pluto/Neptune. In your opinion which is the worst to find in a composite and which can possibly be worked out? I've found some of these squares in long-term couples. Thanks, Stoika, always enjoy reading your analyses. quote:
And then Saturn and/or Mars and/or Nessus in bad aspects to Chiron.
Omg we have Saturn square Chiron! 😱 I saw another composite with Chiron conjunct IC square Moon on DSC. Is this abusive? How about Chiron/Saturn on DSC opposite Uranus/Pluto/Venus on ASC t-square Jupiter on MC?
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Stoika7
Knowflake Posts: 786
From: Rome, Italy
Registered: Mar 2019
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posted February 03, 2020 02:52 PM
Hi Hiraku,
The Mars-Saturn conjunction might work as a counterbalance to the Pluto square, even though it all is a little "explosive", not necessarily in terms of abuse, but the Pluto square Mars person is someone impulsive who doesnt control his feelings too well and can act sometimes a little aggressive out of the blue or impose their will/point of view/direction, while the saturn person would try to control and put a wall against them or so, in a sort of push and pull dynamic, which can be good in balancing such aspects, or can turn to a constant and toxic power struggle and clash of wills, depending on the two people lack of "wisdom"... if there's any kind of abuse, with natal Mars square Pluto I believe this person would be the aggressive one.Saturn square NN can suggest that a relationship is challenged in the long run for whatever reason, it can be external energies, if we take the nodal energy as a karmic one or "fated", but depending on other aspects it can point to just the inner stability of the committment... it is certainly binding in a karmic challenging way, as the relationship would still be a significant experience in both their lives. Among those outer planets aspects you mention, I think the worst one is Composite Saturn square Pluto, cause it suggests a core incompatibility and conflict hard to be worked out, but there are people who stay together all their lives in horrible relationships :-) or, there might be other strong aspects of harmony and compatibility that can make any bad aspect work out, so it is always matter of considering the whole picture and the two people "wisdom". Saturn square Chiron might suggest that a wound or negative traits of the relationship is hard to get solved and a painful dynamic might be underlying, it might suggest a toxic pattern whereas there's a strong psychological co-dependence. I dont think Chiron on its own is toxic, but Chiron/IC square Moon/DSC can suggest a painful break up or strong subconscious reasons will affect negatively the relationship or that emotional involvement is not actually there. But again, it is difficult for me to understand the meaning of one aspect without considering the whole chart picture... Chiron/Saturn/DSC opposite Uranus/Pluto/Venus/ASC square Jupiter/MC seems quite an extreme situation and it would take to look at the whole chart carefully to understand what can possibly be about, it gives me the feeling of a situation where career or professional or earthly/environmental reasons keep the two separated or can create a lot of struggles and challenging situations giving turbolence to the relationship, those are certainly very unstable traits especially if Saturn is in 7th house, it doesnt look necessarily abusive, but one of the two might impose/follow his own needs and ambitions and the relationship might suffer/be damaged by this. IP: Logged | |
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