posted February 09, 2021 02:33 AM            

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Originally posted by Librapurr:
Graham, do you have a theory what makes one Pluto synastry more special and transforming than the other? Should it be DW, exact degree, hard composite aspects with it?

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In my opinion, it can only be the extent to which each of the two souls has already learned to use the Pluto energy positively rather than negatively.

posted February 09, 2021 02:39 AM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Graham, it wasn't just friction between you and them. That person has major, major issues. I got very serious manipulator vibes from said person.

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posted February 09, 2021 05:15 AM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Yes, you did sort of walk into their sort of concealed spider web, but if hindsight is not 20/20, it is usually better than foresight. And yes, a good example of unregenerated and unconscious Pluto.

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Yes. ... "Come into my parlour" said the ranting spider to parlour-loving fly.

posted February 14, 2021 10:43 PM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Oppositions often show up as "other people/particularly affecting relationships", you know that right? Opposition aspects have a 7-7 House connotation. So having Pluto in Scorpio opposite Taurus Sun, for especially a relatively straight [b]woman, indicates doubly that she tends to be attracted to and/or attracts strongly Plutonian and/or Scorpionic partners.

Now, the question is, what is it about these types of men/partners that you are suppose to be learning and/or integrating from? In a very neutral sense, you are indeed suppose to become more "Plutonian" through these connections and relationships. But exactly how so and why, the chart cannot answer. Just can say that this is the balance to strong Taurus and Venus. In a very real sense, there is really more so 6 major Whole Signs that are split up into two pairs of opposites that are two sides of the same coin. Almost like shadow reflections of each other.

The opposite Signs more than any, have a real need to consciously integrate the best, most constructive, most positive of their opposite Sign. This is especially so when a person has major opposition aspects of that energy to a major, sensitive part of the symbol. And in a relatively straight woman's case, especially so when that opposition is to her Sun or Mars (these indicating in a woman's chart, the kind of man/partner she is most attracted to or attracts, besides the more gender neutral DESC/7th for both genders).

(For a relatively straight man, when the opposition is to his Moon or Venus. I say relatively straight, because I do not yet know if it works similarly for more fully gay people etc. Just haven't seen enough charts and examples to form a working hypothesis yet.)

Somewhat related to the above whole concept. Remember earlier when I said I have some folks with strong Cancer in my life, even though I don't have a lick of Cancer in my chart, and it's because Capricorn is my strongest Sign energy. The interesting thing, which I didn't mention earlier, is that these connections/relationships with people that have strong Cancer, are not particularly close and affecting (the one exception being my Mom, who had strong Cancer in her chart).

They don't need to be, because I have that energy already pretty strongly integrated, balanced, and conscious in my chart and psyche. This is symbolized by the Moon being conjunct the ruler of my Sun and Mercury Signs. Hence, I don't unconsciously search for people or partners strongly attuned to Moon and/or Cancer to gain that integration and balance from. Now, if I had been born with Moon opposite that ruler instead of the conjunction, chances are, I'd probably be in closer, more affecting relationships with such strongly Lunar and/or Cancer attuned people.

[/B]

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posted February 15, 2021 01:26 AM              

If you become conscious to what it is you need to integrate, you can come to do it on your own, without being unconsciously drawn to partners that strongly express what you yourself are lacking, but need a balance of.

posted February 15, 2021 09:48 AM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
Why do you feel and/or think that is? What do you feel and/or think you are meant to gain and integrate from these type of partners?

If you become conscious to what it is you need to integrate, you can come to do it on your own, without being unconsciously drawn to partners that strongly express what you yourself are lacking, but need a balance of.

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posted February 15, 2021 10:23 AM            

Evolving and integrating new energy through relationships is a strength. It can be done in other ways, but through relationship with others I would argue is the most effective way, provided the person is conscious that this is what they are doing. Without that awareness, one can give away too much power to the person who represents the energies to be integrated, and that's when the relationship becomes all manner of other things, helpful and unhelpful.

posted February 15, 2021 12:45 PM              

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Why is it a problem that I want or am attracted to those kind of partners? I don’t see this as an issue.

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It's not necessarily a problem in a general way.

However, when one is dealing with a strong combo of Pluto and Scorpio more specifically, one is dealing with fire in a sense. Because these are heavy, testing energies, and because it takes great strength of will and strong spiritual attunement to attune to the more positive and Love attuned side of these energies. Unfortunately for those drawn to these types, one runs a higher chance of running into unsavory types among this crowd.

I.e. "bad boys".

And unfortunately, these cannot but hurt, disappoint, and/or do damage. It's a bit like expecting a croc, to not be a croc. "Hey Mr. Croc, I find you mighty attractive (for some reason), and I really need you to be nice, to behave, and treat me well." Mr Croc replies, "Oh yes darling, I will, I will (wink, wink). I will love you to death" and at the beginning you get "love bombed" and it feels AMAZING, you feel super special, the most important and loved Lass in the world, but then the control through fear and manipulation starts to happen, and it quickly becomes apparent that Mr. Croc, that dastardly b@stard lied and stayed a Croc all along, gasp...

Hence, good idea to have a "back up plan", and also learn how to integrate it consciously on your own as well. In fact, if you do that, you run a higher probability of eventually attracting one of those more rare, more positive/transformed types of strongly Plutonians, like our own Kannon here. Not a "bad boy", but a pretty good guy, unusually so.

posted February 15, 2021 02:40 PM            

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Originally posted by GalacticCoreExplosion:
It's not necessarily a problem in a general way.

However, when one is dealing with a strong combo of Pluto and Scorpio more specifically, one is dealing with fire in a sense. Because these are heavy, testing energies, and because it takes great strength of will and strong spiritual attunement to attune to the more positive and Love attuned side of these energies. Unfortunately for those drawn to these types, one runs a higher chance of running into unsavory types among this crowd.

I.e. "bad boys".

And unfortunately, these cannot but hurt, disappoint, and/or do damage. It's a bit like expecting a croc, to not be a croc. "Hey Mr. Croc, I find you mighty attractive (for some reason), and I really need you to be nice, to behave, and treat me well." Mr Croc replies, "Oh yes darling, I will, I will (wink, wink). I will love you to death" and at the beginning you get "love bombed" and it feels AMAZING, you feel super special, the most important and loved Lass in the world, but then the control through fear and manipulation starts to happen, and it quickly becomes apparent that Mr. Croc, that dastardly b@stard lied and stayed a Croc all along, gasp...

Hence, good idea to have a "back up plan", and also learn how to integrate it consciously on your own as well. In fact, if you do that, you run a higher probability of eventually attracting one of those more rare, more positive/transformed types of strongly Plutonians, like our own Kannon here. Not a "bad boy", but a pretty good guy, unusually so.

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posted February 15, 2021 09:12 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
Moonbeth was my friend, and she had no more issues than the rest of us. She isn’t here to defend herself, so please don’t talk about her that way.

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posted February 15, 2021 10:02 PM              

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
I never said I was into or that I attract bad boys you seem to assume a lot lol. And just because a guy is a Scropio or because they have heavy Pluto aspects doesn't automatically make them a bad boy. What is your definition of a bad boy? I think the most important thing is if the guy treats me well. I've talked to men who weren't Scorpios who treated me badly. So I don't think it's about a particular sign any sign or placement can be a bad boy.

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I agree with you that you can't just go by Sign alone. There are many different kinds of Scorpios out there depending on their strongest Planet(s). Venusian Scorpios, Jupitarian Scorpios, Neptunian Scorpios, Solarian Scorpios, etc are going to be very different than Saturnian Scorpios, Plutonian Scorpios, or Martian Scorpios for example.

Planets are stronger, more concentrated, and more directly "Soul" related symbols--Signs are more personality related and thus are more "wavering" indications. In your case, not only are you attracted to Scorpio energy, but specifically strong Plutonian AND Scorpio combo energy. Whole other Scorpio beast.

Scorpio is the Sign/stage of the war/battle between the ego and the "higher self". Unfortunately it seems in a slight majority of people with very strong Scorpio, often times the ego wins out. But, you also do get Eagle and Phoenix type Scorpio folks. For a good example of one of those, Bob Monroe, who had Scorpio Sun.

But when you mix powerful Pluto into the mix at the same time, the energy tends to shift more and more to the ego and selfishness. Like I said, it takes a very strong will and spiritual attunement to transform such a double combo "whammy".

As to "bad boys" in general, of course strongly Plutonian-Scorpio combo men are not the only astro patterns that can align to that, but before I go into that, a definition would be helpful. I consider any guy a "bad boy" who has lower than average felt empathy and conscience, while higher than average selfishness a "bad boy". It's a spectrum, and one can also find different personalities within that general category.

Basically any guy that tends to treat women like crap and/or without love and respect.

But yes, Pluto-Scorpio is not the only combo that can indicate that. Very powerful Mars and/or Saturn, for example, can also align with that. Even a predominant Mercury, if there is a lack of the more empathy oriented symbols can to some extent. Edgar Cayce's guidance "called out" Mars, Saturn, Pluto, and Mercury as being the unduly/potentially destructively so, self centered symbols par excellence.

If you want a specific, real life example of someone with both Scorpio AND Pluto highlighted simultaneously, and who got overly called to the dark side, I suggest watching the documentary series, "The Vow". Keith Raniere, the leader of the cult, has Scorpio ASC, with Sun conjunct Pluto, and faster moving ruler of the ASC aka the "chart ruler", Mars, in the 8th House.

By the end of the series, one comes away with the impression that Raniere was likely a sociopath and an intense sex addict.* Not all Plutonian-Scorpio combo men are going to be that extreme, and I'm not saying that. However, issues of power plays, control and manipulation through fear, vengefulness/grudge holding, potential for intense rage, quiet/introverted but deeply conceited/arrogant egos, etc, are going to be more common among this group than many others.

Powerful but unregenerated Pluto is not usually a pretty picture and tends to the extremes and to the dark side.

posted February 15, 2021 10:43 PM              

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
I liked her she was always so sweet and friendly towards me.

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Yes, she love bombed/flattered the crap out of many people here. Part of her social manipulation tactic. Beware people that overly flatter you and/or others, with a saccharin sweet manner.

I'll give a very recent example. I just finally figured out that my housemate (who is moving out), is likely in the NPD spectrum. He was/is often quite charming and flattering with us and other of our friends. With his ex girlfriend, he was constantly love bombing her, saying things like she was the prettiest woman in the world, etc. Facially, she is plain/average looking and similar body wise.

Anyways, over time, we caught him in more and more lies, both little and some big. He would tell us one story and his girlfriend another, and because we were all friends and she would ask us questions, we'd find these major contradictions between the versions he was tell her and us. Right after they broke up, he ended up sleeping around with multiple women, and also sometimes sleeping with his ex, and telling her things otherwise.

For another example, I let him borrow my car ramps so he could do an oil change. A week or so later, when I went to do an oil change, I found them busted. My spouse confronted him about that. He did admit that he accidentally broke them, but when she asked "why didn't you tell us when it happened?", he replied, "Oh, I forgot".

Or another example, when he first moved in, we very, very clearly stressed, "hey, we don't mind if you want to do month to month and if you want/need to move out for whatever reason, fine, but please give us the standard 30 days, it really helps us in the process of finding a new person. Well, 10 days into February (after we found out about the ramp thing), he all of a sudden tells us, he's moving out within a week or so. Not long before that though, he had told us, "oh, I'll probably be here for another year or so". There was no major thing going on, no emergency, no crisis of any kind wherein he had to move out within the next couple of weeks. No new job he had to travel for, etc. His aunt offered him a better deal (ironically, he says she and her husband are sociopathic), and he felt like taking it, never mind the pre agreement of 30 day notice.

Anyways, I put all the puzzle pieces together finally and realized what his issue is. Problem is, he's a very friendly and charming guy when he wants to be (doesn't help that he is unusually good looking, tall, etc), and most people wouldn't suspect his deeper issues. This is why he is so flattering to people, to get on their good side, to build up "social credit" and make people's egos feel good. I saw/felt her doing similar, and got major manipulative vibes from it. Now, if you disagreed with her, or challenged her, like both Graham and I had, we saw a very different side. She started ganging up on me with another forum member awhile back after some disagreements between us, saying and implying some pretty extreme and negative things about me. I for the most part, ignored it or made light of it.

Being sincerely friendly, helpful, and positive is one thing, but going that far in such a pathological manner, well speaking of Pluto, I suggest reading up on Stephen Arroyo's "Astrology, Karma, and Transformation" and specifically the chapters on difficult Venus and Moon Pluto aspects, because her behavior was a classic example of what he was describing in the book. And perhaps not surprisingly, she has Cap Moon closely square Libra Saturn Pluto conjunction.

I had the "benefit" of spending 10+ years under the same roof with a sociopathic step father, which really helped me to train my intuitive sense of projected masks and deeper issues within people. I was forced to look below the surface of people's projected appearance. I initially was "charmed" a bit by her (because she appeared warm, friendly and charming), and we had some pretty strong and interesting synastry, like her Moon is almost exactly conjunct my Sun, but I soon started seeing and sensing a very different side than the one she was projecting in a very conscious and manipulative manner.

Anyways, to some extent, I agree with Teasel, in that she is not here to defend herself, etc and it's bad form to talk bad about her in such a case. I felt like giving a more full explanation of what I felt and saw though, since it got re-brought up.

Perhaps this is one of the ways that you need to become more Plutonian? To look deeper into people, beyond their projected masks and outer friendliness, charm, etc, i.e. to not judge a book by its cover? My spouse is a bit like you in a couple ways. She has very strong Venus energy (Venus in the 1st, ASC/chart ruler in Libra, and Taurus IC), and sometimes she doesn't look deeply enough into people despite her strong Aquarius, especially if the person is outwardly charming, friendly, and attractive. She has been tricked by such people to her detriment on more than a few occasions. I always tell her, "you got to look deeper, use your intuition, don't accept things at face value."

Almost every boyfriend she has had that I either met or tuned into, I accurately called out their various issues ahead of time, and sometimes she disagreed with me, until their behaviors/actions.

Though, to be fair and honest, in the earlier days, we both got fooled by some housemates, and I especially fell for some "sob stories" because I have a very keen sense of empathy. But I've become more discerning and discriminating over time. In fact, if someone tells me a major sob story right away, I often see that as a major red flag. Or if they are overly flattering and/or charming, I often see that as a red flag.

posted February 22, 2021 09:09 AM            

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Originally posted by kani:
@Galactic:
is the person from the forum you are talking about (moonbeth) from the UK?

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posted February 22, 2021 09:27 PM              

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Yes but I don't know why she seems like a nice person.

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Like I said earlier,

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Perhaps this is one of the ways that you need to become more Plutonian? To look deeper into people, beyond their projected masks and outer friendliness, charm, etc, i.e. to not judge a book by its cover? My spouse is a bit like you in a couple ways. She has very strong Venus energy (Venus in the 1st, ASC/chart ruler in Libra, and Taurus IC), and sometimes she doesn't look deeply enough into people despite her strong Aquarius, especially if the person is outwardly charming, friendly, and attractive. She has been tricked by such people to her detriment on more than a few occasions. I always tell her, "you got to look deeper, use your intuition, don't accept things at face value."

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This issue fits right in in what I was hinting at when it comes to you needing to more consciously integrate Pluto and Scorpio. Pluto and Scorpio don't accept things at face value, they probe deeper, they ask questions and use their gut to feel what is below the surface appearance.

I had to learn this the very hard way. In my last life in the Earth, I was a very open hearted, naive, and trusting kind of person. I looked for and generally saw the best in others. I was very Solar, Jupiter, Pisces, and Venusian combo in that way.

I ended up getting set up by some very different people, some very Machiavellian type people near or in the ASPD spectrum. And I fell for their trap hook, line, and sinker. And not only did it affect me in a very negative way, but it also affected many others because I was in a position of power, influence, and authority at the time. And because of all the polarization and drama that ensued, I became extremely stressed and depressed.

All because I didn't look deeper into others, and allowed myself to get fooled. I believe that I specifically help set up my Life plan to include being exposed to a sociopath at a young age, to really get this lesson down pat in this life i.e. "Look deeper into others! See the shadow in self, others, and life!"

Because, before my Mom met my step father, I had experienced a more pure empathy and universal Love consciousness state (though I had started a shutting down/turning within process by that time). In other words, if I hadn't had that childhood experience, and then later a pathologically lying girlfriend, I may have turned out just as naive, trusting, open hearted as I had been in my past life.

posted February 25, 2021 04:27 AM            

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Originally posted by ChildofVenus:
Yes but I don't know why she seems like a nice person.

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Beware the nice people who have a history of encounters with "toxic" others.