posted May 09, 2021 12:45 PM            

We are getting married sometime this year or the next. Due to the latest bad fight we had, he already suggested doing couple's therapy and I am willing however, I would like to know if someone could see, astrologically, the reason we argue so much or more like, the reason we hurt one another without meaning to whilst expressing ourselves.

Everything else is incredible. We want marriage and children. We fit perfectly, domestically. We love each other very much. He tells me that I will be the one who will have to end the relationship because he cannot do it.

But, in spite of all that love, it is as if we mirror or project. In the sense that for whatever reason, the way we express ourselves to one another ends up causing us pain. Mind you, we have incredible conversations. It is more in the lines of when we express something the other did that caused us pain and then, things escalate. It is as if we are triggered.

I find that at times, he comes across as uncouth and rude and he finds my way of expressing myself as too logical and cold (a lecturer). It is as if when we try to say something to one another, we take it the wrong way. There is something about communication that triggers or makes us feel attacked and be in the defensive.

Synastry, composite, pcomposite, SA and SRs are attached. Any insight and even ways to mitigate challenging aspects are welcome. He is open to astrology too. We are doing couple's therapy because we want to build a future with one another but if there is anything in the stars that can be a source of illumination, we are more than open.

Thank you.

Synastry

[img]https://i.ibb.co/tbnYKwk/Synastry.png[/img]

Composite

[img]https://i.ibb.co/Z8Y3C9V/composite.png[/img]

Progressed Composite
[img]https://i.ibb.co/MSwtFRC/PComposite.png[/img]

Solar Arc Her

[img]https://i.ibb.co/fQWSwMN/SAHer.png[/img]

Solar Arc Him

[img]https://i.ibb.co/kSkMntC/SAHim.png[/img]

Solar Return Her

[img]https://i.ibb.co/sv0vstq/SRHer.png[/img]

Solar Return Him

posted May 09, 2021 03:23 PM            

Both of these can create arguments, but can be resolved by other aspects.

The most challenging aspect I see in your synastry is Jupiter square Uranus.

"There can be differences in your understanding of freedom in your relationship which can lead to some conflicts. Although your different goals and approach to life can be appealing and intriguing at first, over time, there can be some difficulty finding things in common. There can be some intense periods of restlessness at times when you are unfocused about what to do as a couple. Try to avoid expectations that the other person in your partnership is responsible for your excitement. Another possibility in this connection is a tendency for one of you to resist taking responsibility or to be typecast as the rebellious or unreliable one in the relationship..."
--from cafeastrology.com

posted May 09, 2021 08:13 PM            

There may be some differences in your personalities that can bring to disagreements and instability since Mars/Saturn is square to Jupiter and the Juno/Jupiter midpoint is square to Mercury, so your communication can be harsh sometimes and the man may be ruling things and acting selfish sometimes.
Moon/Chiron is square to Venus and opposite Uranus, so disagreements can bring coldness or on-off times of emotional distance, also criticism can be harsh between the two.

posted May 10, 2021 09:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by comdoc:
Your Mercury is square his Venus.
His Mercury is square your Saturn.

Both of these can create arguments, but can be resolved by other aspects.

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Which other aspects?

quote:

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The most challenging aspect I see in your synastry is Jupiter square Uranus.

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Interesting. Couldn't this aspect manifest itself also as religious or spiritual differences?

quote:

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Your overall synastry potential is 70% (7/10). Positive (above average) but still requires some work and mutual commitment.

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posted May 10, 2021 10:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:

There may be some differences in your personalities that can bring to disagreements and instability since Mars/Saturn is square to Jupiter and the Juno/Jupiter midpoint is square to Mercury, so your communication can be harsh sometimes and the man may be ruling things and acting selfish sometimes.
Moon/Chiron is square to Venus and opposite Uranus, so disagreements can bring coldness or on-off times of emotional distance, also criticism can be harsh between the two.

Remember that transiting South Node is heading towards composite Saturn, triggering the Saturn/Jupiter square, which may become divisive. [/B]

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Hello Stoika!

The bolded is the main issue. It is not intentional but for whatever reason, we are triggered when we express ourselves at times.

posted May 10, 2021 06:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by chocogold:
Hello Stoika!

The bolded is the main issue. It is not intentional but for whatever reason, we are triggered when we express ourselves at times.

I do not know if I am correct but it feels as if the issues we have with one another are the same. As if we are mirroring each other. It is hard to explain.

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The mirroring issue is very possible because you have natal Chiron/psyche conjunct Chiron square to the Sun/Jupiter opposition, in synastry. This is a double-edge sword cause you may have such an intense knowledge of each other's vulnerabilities and may unconsciously use it against the other, at the same time here Jupiter may signal that if you're mature enough to gain self-awareness, you may actually learn to understand *yourself*, your own issues, and find key for healing, through each other. This means to be completely honest to yourself and look at your own wounds with no fear, which may be exposed by the other but unconsciously "rejected".

posted May 10, 2021 11:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
The mirroring issue is very possible because you have natal Chiron/psyche conjunct Chiron square to the Sun/Jupiter opposition, in synastry. This is a double-edge sword cause you may have such an intense knowledge of each other's vulnerabilities and may unconsciously use it against the other, at the same time here Jupiter may signal that if you're mature enough to gain self-awareness, you may actually learn to understand *yourself*, your own issues, and find key for healing, through each other. This means to be completely honest to yourself and look at your own wounds with no fear, which may be exposed by the other but unconsciously "rejected".

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I need to re-read this and will respond later.
But for now, in terms of the following:

quote:

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Remember that transiting South Node is heading towards composite Saturn, triggering the Saturn/Jupiter square, which may become divisive.

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posted May 11, 2021 09:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
It's quite wide now, it will get closer at the end of summer and in autumn. It may bring resolution to your divisive issues, but it may also bring definitive separation if you don't work on these issues meanwhile...

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Thank you, again.

A couple of things. Do you see anything in his chart that might be impacting him in the following? I know he is stressed out because he is not stable right now. But, one issue is that it is not always easy for him to admit fault. He does not bring up grievances randomly but when I bring up a grievance, sometimes he is empathetic and understanding but, there are other times where he just has this knee jerk reaction, as in, he feels he is being attacked. And the entire discussion escalates because I am trying to obtain validation but he is too busy being dismissive, criticising my points, pointing out the grievances he goes through too (which I do not mind) but I tell him not to take advantage of when I am bringing up a grievance to show "how I make mistakes too." He sometimes says that I provoked him, etc., and when the arguments get worse, no one likes it. But what he fails to see is that had he just validated me, the discussions would be easily solved.

posted May 11, 2021 09:38 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by vansio:

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posted May 11, 2021 09:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
is he the red one in synastry? if so, ...consider he has Chiron in second house and Mars in 10th house square (scorpio) Sun, so his vulnerability may be about his self-worth and you may be triggering this wound of his. Transiting Saturn is also square to his ASC and going to be square to his Moon in Taurus, again Taurus having to do with achievements and self-worth... transiting Saturn is square to your composite MC/IC axis, so there's a big burden or a stressful moment, maybe he's feeling he's carrying too much weight and can't take more... I'd suggest to try to be more understanding about his reactions and try to let go when these arguments start, if it's just a temporary situation he will get aware of his behaviours. I think the issue you're explaining is related to your Chiron contacts in synastry. But also Uranus square Jupiter and saturn square mars in synastry can create such issues...

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Thank you so much for your help, stoika.

No, I am in the red and he is in blue.
Would you please reinterpret? I will let you know more because I think there is a transit that must be affecting his emotions/reactions. Something or maybe he suffers from an undiagnosed mental illness.

posted May 11, 2021 10:08 PM            

In this case though, your Jupiter is square to his chiron and opposite his sun, and your saturn is opposite his chiron and square to his mercury, so this is a trigger from your part to his self-assertiveness, maybe arising his guilty feelings or frustrations...

posted May 11, 2021 10:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
I see, sorry about my mistake, i was focusing on the red!! If he's blue, he has Chiron in gemini square Sun, but this wouldn't be enough to understand if he has some serious mental issue...

In this case though, your Jupiter is square to his chiron and opposite his sun, and your saturn is opposite his chiron and square to his mercury, so this is a trigger from your part to his self-assertiveness, maybe arising his guilty feelings or frustrations...

If you like, you could post his natal chart for a better check, including Psyche, Nessus and Orcus.

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Thank you, Stoika.
When we first met, he had a few outer planets opposing his moon in cancer. So, I thought that maybe, some had to do with this.
Yet, there is something in him.
He does not know how to fight fair very well. For some reason, any grievance I air makes him get very defensive. It used to be worse in the past. He would get defensive, hit below the belt, deflect, tried to even out the score (you do it too!), throw insults.
Like children and teenagers who cannot take constructive criticism at all. Do you know how when you try to discuss with a teenager something they did wrong and instead, they never admit fault but keep derailing the conversation?

This is not my fault at all. If anything, this is a toxic pattern that I wish he would work on harder. Even though things are better. This pattern comes up and lately, he is so stressed out and frustrated that he is just getting angrier when reacting. Very angry.

Something in him makes him feel horribly inadequate (and as if he never does anything right, that he is always to blame) when I bring up a grievance to him. So, I wonder if there is an aspect in his chart that affects his self-esteem or sense of self-worth. I do not sense that his defensiveness is from him seeing himself as perfect and the only oasis in the desert but I could be wrong.

Regardless, I am really getting tired of this because if he cannot validate and acknowledge my grievances then he is not husband material.

Please see the chart below.

posted May 12, 2021 10:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by comdoc:
Chocogold, Helpful mitigating aspects are:
your Mercury sextile his Sun
his Venus trine your Uranus
your Saturn sextile his Jupiter
his Mercury sextile your Venus/Pluto and trine your Neptune

Yes, Jupiter square Uranus could be religious or philosophical differences.

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Thank you. Yes, I see those but, he has some work to do on his own. I do too but, I feel I am more flexible and he is just gravitates from taking personal accountability to blaming everyone else.

posted May 12, 2021 10:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:

I'm looking at his chart, which now looks clearer to me... well, he certainly has a self-worth issue, because Chiron/psyche afflicts his Sun, but also Saturn is in first house square to his Mars, MC and Nessus. Saturn in first house is a heavy burden to his personality and self-assetiveness, even more so since it is square to Mars/MC, this may suggest a strong inferiority complex, he may look more assertive than he really is because with Jupiter square Pluto, Pluto ruling his first house, he appears ambitious, but the truth may be that he struggles in having his life under control and he may not feel equal to his ambitions...

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Yes, he has said he is a loser to himself. He does not have his life in order at all. It is just unstable. During the time we have been together, he has seen me accomplish things whereas he barely gets a win. I feel it must be hard because as a man, for his age, he is behind his peers. I think this must make him feel insecure and, he knows I cannot wait forever for him. I sense that he would be very successful but, sometimes, he gets stuck in fearing making the wrong decision and takes a long time to do next step. Sometimes I see it as lack of confidence but he says he just wants to make sure. Maybe it is his saturnian aspect making sure he is doing things correctly instead of rushing things. You see, I am more impatient.

quote:

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Saturn square to Nessus is also an aspect of victim of abuse but also able to abuse in turn.

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This is what worries me because due to him not verbalising things, he is using more of his body to intimidate.

quote:

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Since Nessus is opposite IC, I'd think his lack of selfesteem comes from his family environment, someone in the family may have unconsciously made him feel inferior and not equal to his ambitions/talents... in fact, his MC is in Leo, and his Sun in afflicted by Chiron. So basically he's very proud and wishes for other's support and validation for his talents. now since your Saturn is square to his Mercury and opposite his Chiron, with mercury ruling his Virgo Sun and his Gemini Chiron, the communication (gemini/mercury) between you two becomes a weapon against his inner wounds (Chiron/psyche square Sun, Saturn in first house square Mars/MC/Nessus), literally hitting his pride/sense of inferiority,

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It does not matter how I do it, it breaks him. He would say it was my tone, so I changed my tone. The change in tone did not work out. I even read Gottman's just to learn ways of expressing a concern. Sometimes he is receptive but there are times, when it just breaks him. In the past, he was rarely receptive. It is unbelievable. As in, he reacts as if airing a concern means that he is a bad boy who never does anything right. But that is a personal distortion he has. Certainly, no one likes to be criticised but in a relationship, people need to learn and grow through their differences. He barely airs grievances but I find that he bottles them up and they come out in a passive-aggressive way or, he is under the impression that I should not air grievances because he rarely does? It is bizarre and abnormal--his reactions, I mean. I think it was his mum who put him down a lot as a child.

Another thing, all or most of his past relationships have been co-dependent.

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just to put it in simple words.... this negative communication dynamics likely affects all his romantic relationships since Chiron is in 7th house, venus is square DSC, and Moon is square Juno, so he likely has this issue especially with women, from whom he'd wish to receive respect and support instead...

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Interesting you write this because he says that this is the only relationship where this has been a problem for him. Yet, he has had four committed relationships (lived with all of them), the last person he was with (they were going to get married) and all of them have failed. His last breakup was horrible. I have been trying to dig in if this is something new because he makes it seem as if it is just me and I am the source. But deep down, I doubt that this is something he has never struggled with before.

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Now I am not a psychologist, but astrologically he has Orcus/Moon midpoint square to Pluto. This could be a strong obsessive element added to the dynamic I have explained... usually a toxic aspect with a very controlling and demanding trait, very oversensitive.

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I am not understanding this paragraph very well. Are you saying he can be obsessive, controlling, demanding and oversensitive?

quote:

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this aspect may have to do with your main concerns about his reactions... but as a superficial expression of deeper issues, which I think are rooted in his Chiron square Sun and Saturn in first house square Mars/MC/Nessus.
Then he also has Sun square Uranus, which is a "rebel" trait of someone who usually feels out of ordinary, thinks differently, is very independent. In this case, it's possible that by this aspect he looks for setting himself free from the Saturn and Chiron aspects to his Sun, by just following his own way and he can be quite abrupt in his reactions as this may be his only way out from the obsessive pattern. Since Mercury is so important in his chart given his Virgo Sun and Gemini Chiron, I think that his true way out is through logical mind and communication instead, at least this is what Chiron would suggest. I also think that with Saturn in first house, he needs to find his self-assertivenss and esteem without others' validation, he needs to nurture his talents and achievements, and he also needs to feel encouraged to do so.

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Yes, I agree. I think there is something about verbalisation and emotions that is blocked within him.

quote:

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He's having transiting Saturn in 3rd house square his ASC/DSC axis, so he likely finds very difficult to express himself and communicate, especiallly with his partner cause tr. Saturn is opposite his Venus. He's also having tr. Uranus conjunct North Node square to his Jupiter which may give unexpected reactions and abrupt decisions from his part.
I hope it helps!

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posted May 12, 2021 05:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by chocogold:
Sometimes I see it as lack of confidence but he says he just wants to make sure. Maybe it is his saturnian aspect making sure he is doing things correctly instead of rushing things. You see, I am more impatient.

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Saturn in first house square to MC certainly gives him this "slow" energy and constant need to "make sure", but this is also a typical Virgo trait, which in this case becomes lack of confidence cause of Chiron square Sun and Saturn square MC. Virgo tends to analyze things a lot before going ahead, but then they just go ahead with a certain self-assertiveness as soon as they have a clear picture. He believes in is Virgo Sun when he says he just wants to make sure/analyze situations, but in reality in his case Saturn and Chiron completely block him and analyzing becomes a no way out trap.

quote:

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Originally posted by chocogold:
This is what worries me because due to him not verbalising things, he is using more of his body to intimidate.

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Sorry I didn't mean abusive in a physical way, because from his chart he doesn't look like a plain abuser. I mean that this communication dynamic may become emotionally/psychologically abusive... but it's also against himself, because of Chiron. So the more he "reflects" his own frustrations against you, the more he's clinging to his own inferiority/loser complex. He feels a victim of abuse just because your (absolutely normal) grievance unconsciously reminds him of his own issues, which he makes a big deal about.

When I talked about your Saturn square to his Mercury and opposite his Chiron I didn't mean that it's your fault at all. It's how he perceives your tone, not how you use it or change it. He just feels you hit his wound, no matter how you say it. It's his own issue, not yours... here's the mirror aspect, he needs to react against your criticism because he can't handle to be reminded of his wound....

quote:

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Originally posted by chocogold:
he says that this is the only relationship where this has been a problem for him

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with Chiron in 7th house, and Moon square Juno, with Moon/Orcus midpoint square to Pluto, I highly doubt you're the first one he has such an issue. It is possible that with your Saturn square his mercury and opposite his Chiron, he feels this issue particularly with you. But it is an issue with women and his self-worth that he clearly has in his natal chart in any case...

quote:

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Originally posted by chocogold:
Are you saying he can be obsessive, controlling, demanding and oversensitive?

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Yes. I especially mean that Moon/Orcus square to Pluto can reveal an obsessive pattern in his mind, related to his past emotional wounds, which can very well come from his mother. This is an aspect that can reveal a psychological toxic issue, giving those kinds of reactions you are describing, passive aggressive, denial, oversensitive reactions, personal distortion of your words/tone, making big deal of your slight criticism and so on... so this aspect is the "toxic" expression of the deeper Chiron and Saturn wound, and it may be related to your concerns about his mental balance.
When you deal with someone with this aspect (Moon square Pluto but especially with Orcus involved), you may feel like you have to walk on eggshells... that you have to be careful to choose your words and tone
carefully in order to not disturb their sensitiveness, because they are oversensitive and usually react excessively.
In this case, I suggest to learn how to deal with such a person in order to avoid such reactions... you need to learn to walk on eggshells :-) for instance, you may need to balance your criticism with encouragement and appreciation :-)
You have Composite Chiron conjunct Moon, so I am sure you can find a "healing" way for this issue.

I think Saturn in first house square MC is what makes him feel like a "loser" and at the same time pride and in need to have their talents recognized (MC in Leo). I don't think he's a loser, I think he has to apply Saturn discipline and Gemini Chiron mental clarity to overcome his fears of failure.

posted May 14, 2021 12:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:

When you deal with someone with this aspect (Moon square Pluto but especially with Orcus involved), you may feel like you have to walk on eggshells... that you have to be careful to choose your words and tone carefully in order to not disturb their sensitiveness, because they are oversensitive and usually react excessively.
In this case, I suggest to learn how to deal with such a person in order to avoid such reactions... you need to learn to walk on eggshells :-) for instance, you may need to balance your criticism with encouragement and appreciation :-)
You have Composite Chiron conjunct Moon, so I am sure you can find a "healing" way for this issue.

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You think? I can be very impatient.

Further, I think this is where I am not sure if it is healthy to live a life when you are walking on eggshells. Is that really healthy for me? The fact that I have to be careful otherwise, "he might be provoked"?

Simply, I do not want to take responsibility for his reactions and emotions instead of him working on them. We cannot control everything in life but we can at least control how we react to things, right?

By the way, overall, do you see that things will be alright? It seems I am having some uranus transits too. So, I wonder how these transits will impact the entire relationship dynamics.

Below is my chart with psyche, nessus and orcus, just in case.
Thank you.

[img]https://i.ibb.co/NmsR9Yj/HerNC.png[/img]

posted May 14, 2021 12:56 PM            

going to be honest, i didn't really look at the charts, sorry about that, been a long time since i've really bothered with synastry and composites so my opinions would be pretty useless there anyway

but you asked for a tarot reading and that's something I can do

first pic left side deck is him, right side is you wanted to see where you both were coming from

what i can see here is a tendency for him to be a little immature in his ways of communicating things that are issues for him, his anxieties and problems (page of swords with the moon) there's some definite issues that he's having

nothing too bad but some emotional issues and stuff for sure, definitely that he doesn't express well but i think he does try his best to express it and you can trust that he's honest when he does given the ace of swords here

he does see you as someone he wants to build a life with for sure

on the other side of it i think you might have a tendency to overlook and be a little dismissive of him when he expresses himself in ways you don't like, but you're definitely willing to change and work on that (something you have to do, keep in mind he does seem to be trying his best) because what you really want is balance

ultimately i do see you both have a desire to stick things through though for sure that's coming up

he has to work on his maturity levels but you have to work on really hearing him too when he's expressing himself in ways you disregard and instead of moving away try to reach an understanding

there's a willingness though on both your parts to make things work and this does seem to be a deep connection (though he may be a bit self centered here because i see more balance of you both on your side whereas on his side i see him and you if that makes sense

like he's a bit more self contained and wants things with you and sees you as perfect to achieve those things but you have more of a "team" mentality coming into this

overall though i do see a rather binding connection

now with the second part i asked about the connection in general and where it's headed and from what i can see the efforts you're both putting in will pay off, i think when you hit that next level together especially it'll be a new beginning

seems like making it more "real" will make things feel new and give things a different spark, there's a definite need though to sort of find the time to look at the simple things you both enjoy about each other and find pleasure in those and think about what first brought you two together

hope that helped, if you have more questions feel free to ask, i'm leaving this thread open to check back on you

posted May 14, 2021 04:43 PM            

I completely understand you! I wouldn't want to live my life walking on eggshells either and it's not healthy at all, very stressful indeed, and I can say this 'cause somehow I was forced to do it with a sister, with a ex husband and with a close friend, they all having harsh Pluto/Moon in their natal chart, lol
Sometimes though it is the only way to deal with such oversensitive and overreacting people... on the other side, it's true that if you always walk on eggshells, they won't ever get aware of their issue... so yes, it's very difficult! Maybe what I meant is that you also need to understand what in your communication doesn't work and why he gets so stressed out about your grievance, I mean that maybe you also need to understand his reasons, even if he overreacts, it may still be sign of a core lack of mutual understanding (composite Juno/Jupiter midpoint square Mercury and Chiron in Gemini).
(I have just read Dumuzi's tarot reading and I am curious to see what you have to say, I think it's a very interesting reading!)

As for the future, as I said I see some uncertainties about the wedding especially cause of transiting south node approaching composite Saturn and triggering the square to Jupiter, which is unfortunately a strong divisive aspect... since transiting Saturn is square to composite MC after being square to comp. Pluto, and since tr. Saturn is going to be retrograde and going to square Pluto again, it seems that there are issues to be worked out before you can go peacefully head with your shared plans... Saturn is giving a block at this moment, which was already announced by tr. saturn square pluto, clearly making your individual differences surface in a conflicting way. Usually a Saturn/Pluto square transit happens in order to reveal issues and find solutions, it forces you to address and solve things. in this picture, transiting south node in autumn can be a turning point, either you solve your relationship issues at that point, or there may be definitive detachment, it looks pretty black and white, "make it or break it".