posted January 08, 2023 11:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by girlwiththerainysoul:
Wow, that is one intense synastry!

And and I LOVE the composite Sun/chiron conjunction.

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posted January 09, 2023 01:06 AM            

Regarding the objects, there are too many lines and aspects on the grid for me to look at this.

The details are interesting, but the skeleton is the bones of the rapport between two people.

posted January 09, 2023 07:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by edenhardwicke:
I don't know what feelings are due to what aspects astrologically, but I will say that the relationship as a whole is very intense, very important, and feels inescapable (in a positive way that is sometimes intimidating).

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I love your love story- and you are so grounded and wise in your perspective. I hope that comes across as the deep complement it is intended to be.

I think you defined your Chiron pain quite clearly in the story of your relationship. What pain to experience watching the love of your life need to break free, and learning to trust she will come back to you.

Perhaps that's the meaning of her Saturn/Pluto on your ASC after all, how this would weigh on you, change and transform you should you choose to continue the relationship right now.

Also, as for the above quote, I don't know that it matters what is attributed to what when it's all so interconnected. Your chart is telling a story, and to pick it apart piece by piece would dilute and numb the story. It's full of feeling and intensity, a complete picture!

posted January 09, 2023 11:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:
You sound very mature at handling relationships edenhardwicke : )

Regarding the objects, there are too many lines and aspects on the grid for me to look at this.

The details are interesting, but the skeleton is the bones of the rapport between two people.

The skeleton is hard work on it's own, let alone the rest!

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Thank you, and here you go. I took out all of the aspects to the objects and things like Chiron, Nodes, etc. Below the main charts I'm also putting the Yods in Synastry that I think are the most significant.

This is our Synastry chart:

This is our Composite chart:

This is my Natal chart:

This is her Natal chart:

posted January 09, 2023 12:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StoneMoon:
I love your love story- and you are so grounded and wise in your perspective. I hope that comes across as the deep complement it is intended to be.

I think you defined your Chiron pain quite clearly in the story of your relationship. What pain to experience watching the love of your life need to break free, and learning to trust she will come back to you.

Perhaps that's the meaning of her Saturn/Pluto on your ASC after all, how this would weigh on you, change and transform you should you choose to continue the relationship right now.

Also, as for the above quote, I don't know that it matters what is attributed to what when it's all so interconnected. Your chart is telling a story, and to pick it apart piece by piece would dilute and numb the story. It's full of feeling and intensity, a complete picture!

(I am so sorry, but all my mom feelings are coming out here and I just feel this huge maternal hug toward you.)

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Thank you! I really appreciate your perspective. I think you're onto something with Chiron, and how it relates to our relationship story as a whole. In synastry we have double whammy Chiron square Sun, and in composite they're conjunct at the Midheaven.

My parents, who have been married 22 years, also have double whammy Chiron-Sun in synastry. One is an exact semisquare, one is a wide square. And their composite Chiron is the apex of a T-Square with Mars and Moon (it's square both).

I read that Chiron in composite is a couple's greatest area of limitation but also the area of their greatest wisdom and experience. I feel like that can probably shift over time? In our case maybe because the relationship began so young but with such a lofty and prominent identity (Sun conjunct Midheaven in Capricorn... SO serious!!) it's kind of a burden to bear at this point (wounded aspect of Chiron) BUT as we get older and more prepared to take on the challenge, we will have learned so much and we will have a ton of understanding about our relationship itself and how it operates (wisdom aspect of Chiron)?

As for the Saturn/Pluto on my Asc/Dsc, I think you're right that she is transforming my understanding of how relationships work. I think she's also helping me understand my worth and know how to set boundaries, which can be a challenge for me with Pluto in my 7th. Because I can be too clingy, and put up with too much because I'm afraid of being abandoned. I'm also somewhat easily controlled and manipulated. But in this situation that arose, despite her being the last person in the world I would ever want to let go of, for some reason I was okay breaking up with her. It just felt like what I needed to do, and like the Universe was saying "It's okay, trust me, just do this, everything will be fine in the end."

And now, even though on a deep/spiritual level it doesn't feel like the connection has been severed, I'm doing well on my own and I have proved to myself that I'm capable of being independent and standing up for my own needs, not tolerating any disrespect, and operating with foresight. And maybe that is something that both of us needed to witness me do, and be okay with doing. Otherwise my presence might have felt suffocating to her; if I still carried a core belief that I wouldn't be okay without her in my life. Now I understand that I would be completely fine, it's just that I *want* her in my life, but I don't even need to try hard to make that a reality, it will just happen because that's how our connection is. So there's no reason to cling or worry, essentially.

posted January 09, 2023 07:50 PM            

You are quite the technician, edenhardwicke! Hopefully, more to say on that later

Honestly, it's so complex and there are many questions you have here. I request to you that you place the synastry grid again, please. And with reduced orbs (I guess to the standard 100%). It's very noisy and hard to extract the pertinent details.

Composite -
The composite.. the Sun opposite Venus, even if it was interpreted as a conjunction, it's very wide to the Sun and therefore provides reduced intimacy and fondness when together. Instead you have Chiron conjunct Sun. That's just pain and distain with no reprise to the core vital forces of the relationships = draining. And that Venus, nor the Moon, are there to soothe anything, or support intimacy, emphasises this pain many times over.

The Sun of the composite, it's in a Tsquare (potentially with Jup or Ven). It's square the Moon of all the most important planets. And that composite Moon is conjunct your Mars. I haven't looked more than this at the composite. But, there exist indications to explain why someone may pursue a relationship, and your Mars on the composite Moon is but one that I have seen here. Also with the composite, that the Sun is on the SN sounds to me like this relationships is in the past.

I'm not one for looking at composites before there is an actual relationship. But, I've come to see some value in a quick glance, because sometimes when they are complicated, the two people will just get a vibe, and the rapport between them, simply fizzles out. I think then I've seen enough of the composite, here. Any more looking is not useful time spent and will be too tiring

Synastry -
Q. The yods that you have drawn up yourself obviously didn't show on astro synastry. You mentioned this. This is weird of course, but more importantly, they will be able to be assessed via a synastry grid with reasonable orbs (80%-100%) when you post one. Which applies to all of the aspects here.

Because of her own inconjuncts, there are 2 yods that I see which you complete in her chart. Which of course, you would be aware of I'm sure:

Her Jupiter and Pluto and your Mars: her Pluto at apex
Her Saturn and Mars, with your Juno: her Mars at apex

There are others: with your Nep, her Plut, and her Jupiter at the apex - but they would be considered too wide. Something I usually dispute though as I find they still have focus, just that it's soft and in the background.

She's a complex person with those inconjuncts. I'm thinking you may be also.

There seems to be a balance of friendship - or, peer recognition - and tense elements. For eg: your Pluto square her Venus, and some Chiron contacts, along with a weird composite. I don't know your ages, but at young ages, some challenging aspects can make you enemies. So there's a lot to think about here.

There's a fair bit going on with the synastry:
Grand Earth trine: Her mars and Venus, with your Mars - her Mars on your Chiron.

Some t-squares of course, and probably some kites too, given you have the talent triangles and there's so much scope for hits with her splay (or bucket or seesaw.. whatever) chart.

Oh, yes, there's a kite involved with her sun, and your Venus at the apex.. hmmm... This is significant.

I will come back and continue to look.

I would prefer if possible, that you don't quote me as I tend to come back and edit here. It can make the thread messy in my opinion, with many quotes. Makes it hard for others to follow, either now or in the future. And, it's confusing when I go back and change it!

I hope to get back tonight and look closer. Please stand by

Update: The more I look at the synastry, the more I'm intrigued and the more I like it. In a soulful way, that is. You both need each other.. But need can turn into brother/sister vibe, so, I'm still looking carefully.

posted January 10, 2023 01:20 PM            

I believe it's my Venus that is on the composite Moon, while my Mars falls into the composite 2nd house. Your comment about the relationship being in the past is interesting, and I think the houses play a role. The 9th is the house of higher education (so, college) and that is where we met and started our relationship. I can see a story unfolding with it, where things began in college but the ultimate "future" of our relationship is down in the 3rd house in everyday life, with NN exactly conjunct Venus. I obviously don't know how it will play out yet but that's one potential interpretation.

Here is the synastry grid with normal orbs and aspects to objects included. If you want me to take away all of the aspects to objects I can replace this image.

We are both young, in our early 20s. She is a very complex person and my mom, who is an astrologer, looked at her chart and went "PHEW! This is rough, it's going to take time to grow into."

You are right that the core of our relationship is friendship, and sometimes it does slip into feeling kind of like sisters or just like two sides of the same person, but the strong sexual and romantic attraction balances that out pretty easily. And we are different enough, and both complex enough, that things never get boring (plus she is a natural comedian).

I also am certain that we could never be enemies; we have way too much adoration and respect for each other as people for that to occur. Plus we're both generally level-headed and reasonable, and can look at the big picture instead of reacting to little things. We're also very good at laughing at ourselves.

I love that you picked up on her flighty-ness, and scattered-ness. I don't think any of that is helped by the Out-of-Bounds Mars (Declination 25°39' 0" S) on her Ascendant with lots of strong aspects to personal planets and angles. But it gives her a ton of energy that can be used in astonishingly creative ways (she's a very talented visual artist), or it can be channeled into less than ideal activities (like impulsively acting on sexual attraction to people). She has moderate to severe ADHD, which she was only diagnosed with after meeting me because I recognized it immediately and then insisted that she go through the diagnosis process (and I helped her with doing paperwork, etc.)

You are absolutely correct that I'm a rock for her, and I enjoy being that rock, but only when I am appreciated for it and not resented or taken for granted. She did take my existence for granted towards the end (which she acknowledged when apologizing for it), kind of assuming I would always be there, so she started putting in less effort and simultaneously tried to convince me to be fine with "opening the relationship." I was like um, no, absolutely not. She had a very naive idea of how that would turn out, kind of assuming that as long as she got to do what she wanted and what felt good to her, then everyone else would/should be fine with it. Not realizing (or wanting to acknowledge) that her own capability to manage an arrangement like that is sub-zero.

Part of me walking away was giving her a reality check, basically a way of saying: "I am not just going to exist in your life in perpetuity, keeping your feet on the ground and head out of the clouds, if it is thankless work and my boundaries just get steamrolled, and I'm not being cared for myself. This needs to be a relationship; I cannot be the one keeping the wheels on the bus while you just sit back and enjoy the view."

Now, it was not always like that (and even when it was, there were many moments where she broke through the mental fog to demonstrate care for me). She gave me so much (everyone in my life noticed an immediate shift in my personality when I was with her- I got so much more bubbly, happy, social, and outgoing), and when she was in a mentally healthy state she was more than capable of being grounded and stable and helping me with my own problems, etc. I would not have stayed with her for 2 years if that weren't the case.

But like you said, she wants to know what is out in the world first before she goes further with this. And I think that flightiness is in large part the reason she wasn't putting in the proper effort to maintain our relationship- it's not that she was incapable or hadn't in the past, it's that she didn't want to stay in the relationship at this moment in time and didn't know how to articulate that because on a deep soul level we both know that this relationship is never going away. So I think it confused her, the contradiction in those feelings. Wanting to explore right now, but wanting to be with me in the future, yet knowing that if she were to let go of me right now there's not a guarantee that I'd be around in the future. But we both recognized that there *definitely* wouldn't be a future if we tried to stay together right now (it would be so dysfunctional), so we had to break up to give ourselves a chance essentially.

She unfortunately does not play any sports and pretty universally dislikes all forms of exercise, except for bike riding. I think the lack of physical outlet or desire to do any physical activity unless it's giving her an immediate dopamine hit is probably one of the reasons she has such a hard time managing all of her Mars energy. I have the same problem as her (both of us have Mars in the 12th in Earth signs- stubborn as hell with lots of inertia), but luckily my mom got on me from a very early age and I've been made to do exercise like martial arts, rock climbing, hiking, etc. that I actually enjoy, and now I'm a very big advocate for daily exercise. When we were together sometimes I would make her go on a walk with me, if I knew she was flopping around in her room with no fresh air or movement.

She knew, and she did actually say to me, that she cannot be the person I deserve to be with right now. She knows that she needs to figure out a lot of things on her own, like how to manage her impulses and discover what she really wants & what her goals are in life. We talked about all of this openly (our communication was incredibly good), so everything I've written about here is stuff we've discussed with each other. I have never said anything about her to anyone that I have not already said to her face. And she takes it in stride, which I love.

Back to astrology- mainly I'm wondering what it is about our Synastry and all those Yods, that lends itself to the underlying feeling of stability and longevity in our connection, despite the obvious difficulties involved and despite the fact that there is no guarantee that we'll ever actually get together again? Part of it is just stuff she's said to me that makes me think this isn't over, for example, her saying "I feel like I'm on a mission [for you]" regarding us breaking up and what the future might hold. What she meant by that is that she feels like she's on a mission to discover more about herself and get sorted out and more internally grounded/stable.

posted January 10, 2023 02:26 PM            

Sass is talking about composite sun conjunct sn and Chiron… then I started looking more at Chiron in synastry. I don’t know if this relationship is in the past, but I feel strongly it’s from the past.

posted January 10, 2023 03:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by StoneMoon:
I’m sure this was mentioned but…

Sass is talking about composite sun conjunct sn and Chiron… then I started looking more at Chiron in synastry. I don’t know if this relationship is in the past, but I feel strongly it’s from the past.

Her Chiron is on your sn, and your Jupiter is on her NN. This makes me feel like she may have provided healing in a past lifetime and your soul contract is for you to teach or guide her with some important soul evolving in this lifetime. I am starting to feel like you came here and together to help her along. This may not be permanent togetherness, but it’s significant… which we already know.

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I agree that this feels like it's from the past. That's one of the things I said to her in our last few conversations when I was digging deeper into the astrology stuff. It feels like our soul contract has not been fulfilled yet (I think double whammy North Node semisquare Juno is one reason for that). I also think that the double whammy Jupiter/POF conjunctions play a very significant role. One of our conversations towards the end went like this:

Me: "I don't know if all of this is going to get resolved in this lifetime, but I will say that based on these charts, it seems like if we don't reconnect, we're at least going to be together again in the next lifetime to finish this mission."
Her: "But what if we don't get that chance?? I'm scared! My soul isn't me!"
Me: "What do you mean?"
Her: "Confession time: I still want to marry you."

I think my 7th house SN conjunct her 11th house Chiron could be her teaching me about how to effectively be in relationships without losing myself and my ultimate purpose (1st/7th axis stuff), and highlighting the importance of maintaining friendships, being involved in the community, and thinking about the big picture when in partnered relationships (11th house stuff). And my 8th house Chiron conjunct her 12th house Mars/Ceres conjunction could be me teaching her about how to balance her base-level drives and desires with the sacrifices, contracts, agreements, etc. plus the intimacy and vulnerability necessary to be successful in a partnership (8th house) and teaching her how to get more in-tune with the spiritual dimension of things (12th house stuff but also 8th tbh).

posted January 10, 2023 06:13 PM            

Also, I did mean from/in the past. Which still holds the same implication, mind you.

Ugh.. Astrology is amazing.. This is no help but, I feel so emotional just reading all of that and need a break to compute. As ever, I'm so touched by the human story behind this.

And I'm in awe of edenhardwicke - where did you learn to grow up so fast as be so thoughtful?

I've only made quick notes so far and I'll be back. I'm excited to see that synastry grid, it's very helpful.

posted January 10, 2023 10:07 PM            

I don't know where my perspective/maturity comes from, maybe my chart has some answers on that LOL. Could be Jupiter in my 1st house trine my Mercury in Pisces next to my Midheaven? Saturn on ASC too, that might have something to do with it.

I agree, dance and martial arts are a great idea. They've both been great for me, and I have the same kind of easily fried-up nervous system she does. I've done Karate the longest but I have also done Kung Fu, Tai Chi, and a year of Aikido. When I was a kid I did ballet for several years and then took an African dance class. Now I'm learning sean nós Irish dancing through YouTube tutorials, LOL.

posted January 11, 2023 12:29 AM            

It kind of feels like what you've said about my guidance as a repayment for healing is sort of what we've been doing in this lifetime, actually. I've been guiding her through emotions and helping her find herself, while she has been healing my core wound of abandonment and making me feel unconditionally loved and cared for. I'm autistic (diagnosed in childhood) and physically disabled/chronically ill, and one moment we shared before we started dating really epitomized that dynamic of care.

We were at a protest together, and we were standing listening to the speakers. I kept shifting my weight, and I guess I was clearly uncomfortable/in pain. We had known each other for a grand total of 3-ish days, but she knew that I have a condition that affects my joints and remembered me talking online about having trouble standing for long periods of time (she told me later that she had read through the entirety of my social media accounts because she wanted to know me so badly). So she, who was standing behind me, said, "Eden, do you need to sit down?" And I said, "No it's okay, I think I'm fine for now." Because I didn't want to get in the way of anyone and I thought it would look awkward if I was sitting by the feet of people I had just made friends with the week prior.

About three minutes later, (evidently after watching me continue to shift my weight) she tapped my shoulder lightly and said, "Eden, you know you can sit down if you need to, right? Here, there's a spot right by my feet. You'll be fine, everyone here cares about you. I don't want you to be in pain." So I was like, "Okay, yeah... thank you." And I sat down next to her legs. Then she kept periodically looking down at me to check on me, and I kept looking up at her, so sometimes we'd make eye contact and smile behind our masks. I wanted to lean my head against her legs so badly, and later she told me that she had the urge to run her hand through my hair and hold me there, but neither of us did anything.

A couple days after is when we just kind of... fell into being together. After five hours straight of talking in my room, one tiny gesture led to another and then my head was in her lap and we were hugging lying down in my bed saying, "Oh... this is happening. Oh my god, this is happening. This is real." And we just knew immediately what it all meant. Then we talked for another five hours (until 3 am) before falling asleep together in my tiny little dorm bed. There was never a "do you like me?" conversation, and never even time for one of us to ask the other out (although she kind of had done that the day prior, asking about the weekend, but then we skipped a step by kissing the night before we had plans!). We still went on that date the next day though, and while we were there, she said "So is this a date?" and I went, "Um, yeah, what else would it be? We literally kissed and slept in the same bed last night?" and she said "Okay yeah, fair point. Just clarifying." And we laughed.

Technically, the timeline was short. Just five days from when we first met until when we first kissed. But it felt like we were resisting hard for the first four days until we finally couldn't. That day at the protest, before she even did that beautiful thing of persuading me to sit down, she went to help one of my new friends swap their sign out for another one, and I spontaneously had the very strong thought, "I want to marry Anna [not her real name]. Wait, no, that's way too severe. I just met her. Okay, I want to marry someone *like* Anna. But- ANNA is like Anna... oh god..." and then I got a little lightheaded from the adrenaline rush and had to stop thinking!!

Anyway, all this to say- she has healed and cared for me, in immeasurable ways that I've had the privilege to experience firsthand. It kind of makes me wonder what the circumstance was of our souls in past lifetimes. Did we just never quite get to be together in the way we wanted to? We fit together so well, and did from the start. But we're both female and we're both disabled (her mentally w/ ADHD, me mentally w/ autism and ADHD and physically w/ various things), so maybe that could play a role in the previous lifetime scenarios, if homosexuality was illegal where we lived, etc.? Does all that relate to the Chiron-Sun-South Node stuff in composite?

posted January 11, 2023 01:08 AM            

Here's my incredible rundown on why she should do it. Hear me out, as you will see I have a very convincing argument, lol.

First, we were talking about the Moon, right. I take her Moon ruler as Mars - her (fast) Moon would've moved into Aries within minutes of her birth

Her Mars is:
In Cap = structured movement that has rules and method
Trine Venus: Mars trine Venus = dance is the obvious one, but it applies also to MA
The ruler of her Mars is in Gem, which represents her Mercury, which is having the issues with her Moon!
In 12H: Nep = music, grace and art = dance or MA works here: dressing up happens for both
In 12H: Mars in 12H is notoriously "stuck", doubly so as it is inconjunct (like mine too, which is also in my 12H) - it needs expression and it's an intense Mars (MA is intense). Traditionally, it's hard for women to access their Mars at the best of conditions, in the 12H it can go inward, and yes "artistic", but also depressive.

Jupiter -
Mars is opposite Jup - Jup on 7H = dance or MA as both are 1:1. Jupiter and Mars are incredibly competitive, 7H is also very competitive (open enemies) and 7H is not team sports - again, it's 1:1
Mars opposite Jup is a heap of intense energy - again
Jup needs to engage the mind and have some philosophy to chew over - which is the case for dance and MA
Jup is into heightened and peek experiences - you def get this from karate, and through using and directing the body, and you learn to focus it
Jup is a good outlet for emotions because it is the higher octave of Moon

7H -
7H represents the other - which can also be the outside world, it doesn't have to be a relationship perse
The ruler of her 7H is Moon - which needs support and where this conversation began
Her Mercury (which is having the issues with Moon and again, how this conversation started) is in Libra = 7H = graceful(Lib) movement(Merc). Mercury is fast, agile, and technical movement = dance MA and again, 7H interactions = 1:1

And that's a wrap! I was thinking this over while doing weights, LOL..

I'll get back to the synastry next.

Edit: maybe the healing and caring you talk about above with StoneMoon is coming through from the Chiron-Sun conjunction in the comp? I would not have gone there, but Girlwithrainysoul said she liked it..

posted January 11, 2023 11:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sassaqua:

Edit: maybe the healing and caring you talk about above with StoneMoon is coming through from the Chiron-Sun conjunction in the comp? I would not have gone there, but Girlwithrainysoul said she liked it..

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posted January 11, 2023 12:43 PM            

And yes, I think the Chiron stuff does relate to all the healing that our relationship did for both of us. But I also think it reflects the fact that our partnership has a strong connection to the collective wounds that we're all dealing with in this time period. This is something Liz Greene wrote:

"Sun-Chiron contacts in a composite suggest that the relationship itself carries an unhealable wound, usually from the past of both parties, or from the nature of the world in which the two people are living. At the same time, the relationship may provide deep healing for both people, or for others who come in contact with the couple, because the inherent limits invoke suffering and consequent understanding and compassion... There might be a physical handicap in one partner which may be genuinely and deeply accepted, but which limits the mobility of both people. Yet another example might be a racially mixed marriage, or a homosexual relationship, both of which may provoke animosity among neighbours who are xenophobic or too rigid in their definitions of normality." http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_composit_e.htm

We are both disabled (me more so than her, and my disabilities limit both of us in terms of activities we're able to do together), it's a same-sex partnership, and it's racially mixed too which I hadn't mentioned yet.

The only other thing I can think of as an inherent limitation of the relationship that actually caused us pain, is the fact that she wanted to have a non-monogamous relationship and I didn't/don't. But I feel like that's going to change over time on her end, which could be wishful thinking, but I just don't get the sense that she really wants to work that hard to keep up multiple long-term partnerships. Plus she keeps entering relationships with people who want monogamy, and she hasn't even tried searching intentionally for other people who are interested in non-monogamy. So I could be wrong about the direction that tendency of hers is headed but that's my take on it right now at least. She's someone who starts relationships organically in-person with people she meets through school and other activities, and the chances of her meeting someone in that manner who enthusiastically wants to try out polyamory with her are slim.

I had a conversation with her about it, and she said, "This would be an issue in any relationship I enter in the future, too." and I said, "But it doesn't have to be, not if you start a relationship with someone who also wants to be polyamorous." and then she went, "Yeah but that's rare, and I want to meet people organically and be in relationships with people who I actually like, not just because they also want polyamory." so I was like "Okay, then at some point you're going to have to come around to monogamy because if that's the way you're planning on meeting your partners then that's the relationship style you're going to end up in."

Anyway, that was a big source of pain for us but it seems more like a byproduct of her youth and desire to explore than a permanent fixture of her personality, especially given that she doesn't seem to have the desire to even try finding other people who want an arrangement like that! The guy she started dating after we broke up (who I assume she is still dating now) also wants monogamy, so she just put herself in the same exact situation as far as that goes.

posted January 12, 2023 09:28 AM            

Normally, I just go over the grid aspects and leave it there because anything more is generally too tiring, and, too complex for most people. The effort taken is lost on many people who ask for readings.

In this case though, I've gone a bit deeper/broader. Just jotting notes now, and I will edit tomorrow.

The synastry I didn't much like initially. I didn't like the lack of nodes or the harshness to her Venus. Pluto AND Saturn - this is not great.
But we see that all up it's a grand square, which includes her own Tsquare with the same planets. This will be (another) central theme for you individually, and in synastry. Something that supports growth (as they say).

Finally, the lack of aspects to the Sun and Moons. Her Moon is zilch. But it's same for your Moon and Sun too....

But, when you think about it - whose got perfect synastry? I mean, I like it, but the obvious issue is the lack of contacts to the most intimates: Sun and Moon. But, again, on the other hand, marriages can go for decades and achieve so much without being perfect in the synastry. So, who's to say?

Moving on then ...

It's the positioning of the planets in the houses where I find repeating reflecting themes here, found also in the synastry. Therefore, there is weight added here, to the overall rapport between you both. There also exists tonal reflections in each natal charts that are supportive and deepening for your relationship. Everything together, adds up to something substantial.

Things like:
Her grand air trine with her Sun in your 5H and Saturn (her chart ruler) on your ascendant
The grand earth with the 2 Marses and her Venus - your Mars in her 4H her Venus in your 4H | her Mars in your 8H - on your Chiron
Her Moon (her desc ruler) in your 11H and your Pluto in hers - 11H = "love received"
I like that her Moon applies to your Venus and in the same sign
The strong Jupiter and Saturn tones in both your natals
Nodes on Saturn and Jupiter (wide aspects are gentler)
Both your chart rulers have the Gem theme
Ruler of your desc in same sign as her desc
Her ruler aspecting your Venus

Things like that ...

Overall, themes of companionship, and support and friendship. But, it's not shallow like I've seen in some interactions with mostly Venus and Mars or 5H overlays; depth exists here with the Chirons, Plutos, 8H, and it's got room to grow with your Saturn at 0-degrees which is strong, and hers on your Asc is also strong, and the Jupiter tones. Not overly exciting, but all just nice, and not likely to burn out. And nice is probably preferred for a Libran and Pisces Sun.

I'm trying to stay objective.. and not be influenced by the impressions already received in the posts you have provided on the relationship. I'm not sure how objective I am being. I'm trying!

What impressed me initially was that, your Sun conjunct her Moon and how both these lights are lacking in the natals. And, they are still and very lacking in the synastry.

I suspected to start with, and now I still do after thinking about it to be certain before writing it, that this is a strong element of recognition and empathy with you both: you recognise a lostness, a uniqueness, a dis-anchoring from functional normal life. But also here, a purity exists that shines through one another and that you recognise and value: you value it in each other, but it also reminds you both of your own purity. There is purity and innocence that comes with low-aspected planets, you see.

Again, there is sweetness here, because they are the lights, and, like the rest of the chart (where Venus and Mars are repeating themes), here too, the male and female archetypes are involved. But the grown up ones - Venus and Mars are young, body-focused, narcistic, "taking" energies, and with a focus on breeding.

Sun and Moon on the other hand are full-bodied. They encapsulate developing and growing psyches and that grow and change over time; they are more dynamic then, and have greater longevity through the decades of a life lived.

All hard to explain ..

Also significant here, is that it is your Sun and her Moon. Which is the traditional balanced roles of male and female.

I know these planets are aspected natally btw, but I'm just saying they are significantly not integrated with the other planets in the natal charts.

Further, given they aren't so integrated, it makes sense that you find solace in each other, AND maybe too, in a synastry that also has these lights low aspected! Pretty incredible. Anything more aspected would be overwhelming for these low-aspected planets.

What I'm saying is that, you not only recognise the isolated planets, these planets remain low aspected planets, even when you interact (ie the synastry). And, I suggest that, you both probably couldn't take too many aspects to these natally low aspected planets (I'm talking about her Moon and your Sun right - incase I have lost you, lol). I find this definitely remarkable. So you will appreciate each other as you just naturally, by being yourselves, don't overwhelm each other.

posted January 12, 2023 08:35 PM            

I think you're right that the house overlays are very important for us, and that the Sun-Moon conjunction is key. And that Earth trine with Mars/Mars/Venus, that's a big one too.

When you said, "this is a strong element of recognition and empathy with you both: you recognise a lostness, a uniqueness, a dis-anchoring from functional normal life. But also here, a purity exists that shines through one another and that you recognise and value: you value it in each other, but it also reminds you both of your own purity. There is purity and innocence that comes with low-aspected planets, you see." I was like YES!!! EXACTLY!! We bring out the parts of each other that are just... wholesome, and un-conditioned by the world. When we're together we appreciate the parts of each other, and ourselves, that are sometimes seen by others as "too sensitive" "too intense" and "too abnormal" but which are really just raw and unblemished aspects of our humanity.

Some images/mental movies I have of that dynamic include blowing dandelion fluff at each other, giggling hysterically at a drawing one of us did, holding hands and spinning in circles outside, me taking a video of her licking a dew drop off a hanging leaf, lying down under a pine tree at night and looking at the stars, and randomly picking flowers for each other to put in our hair (that happens often- she'll show up to meet me and have a flower in her hand that she picked on her walk, then tuck it behind my ear).

I didn't know all that about low-aspected planets, but it makes sense and you're right, if there were many more aspects to her Moon she might get too overwhelmed by being around me for extended periods of time (and she can be really reclusive as it is, especially when she's feeling emotionally sensitive). But because I "get" her Moon (conjunct Sun), and the only other major aspects are wide squares to my Jupiter (benefic) and Chiron (healer?) in water and earth signs so they feel more trine-y and sextile-ish, I think she feels a lot more comfortable being vulnerable with me. Of course the magnification of Jupiter and the mentor-ship of Chiron are not always wanted, but they're good resources to have. Conjunctions can be harsh, too, but it's in Pisces so I feel like that softens everything.

That and, what you said about being in our own world together. That's true. And we sometimes need to escape it so we don't get stuck there (and right now we're both on long voyages to different places), but it is such a cozy little world. A Piscean one.

One thing I noticed is that her Ceres is conjunct her Mars, and my Ceres is conjunct my Mercury. My Mercury/Ceres falls into her 2nd, while her Mars/Ceres falls into my 8th, and that is the same house axis. I think it's like, I nurture through words and ideas, she nurtures through actions.

Her Mars/Ceres nurturing helps me deal with all my 8th house/Chiron stuff. I think it is why she very instinctively understands, and just *gets* how to care for me, without me needing to say anything- she's in my 8th (with the added intuitive power of being in her 12th) so she can perceive all of it. If anything is physically or emotionally wrong with me, she sometimes realizes it before I do, and she instinctively knows what to do. If I can't speak and can just use gestures, she gets what they mean without having to ask. It's not something I can put my finger on how to describe, but it can be uncanny. So yeah, Mars/Ceres to Chiron in the 8th. That's an important one because of my disabilities (which I suppose are represented by Chiron).

Meanwhile, with my Mercury/Ceres I help her build a secure sense of self-worth, and build up a foundation of general physical/mental security as well. I care with my words and ideas, by noticing things and pointing them out, and making up theories/asking questions. Problem solving, troubleshooting, being curious and playful. That's how I got her to go in for a neuropsych evaluation, helped her get started on medication for anxiety and other things, etc. Sometimes it's like I have to wrangle her Lilith before she listens to me (at first there was a bit of a battle to get her to regularly take her medication, for example) but once she does, she feels a lot more stable and comfortable. Also, the house overlay there is my 10th/her 2nd. That makes perfect sense, because I know that I am going to be financially secure in my career and would be able to provide for her in that way.

posted January 14, 2023 06:05 PM            

And, her Sun completes my natal T-Square with Venus, Jupiter, and Chiron- also forms a Grand Cross.

Ahh! Her Sun is also in a T-Square natally, with Mars and Jupiter. My Venus opposes her Sun and forms another Grand Cross that way.

So, since her Mars and my Chiron are in the same place and our Jupiters are also close together, our Sun-Venus opposition provides the finishing touch to both of our natal T-Squares in those areas. They overlap.

posted January 14, 2023 08:12 PM            

Challenge of astrology is extracting and prioritising the main themes. You have a few themes in your synastry.