Posts: 2962
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: May 2002

posted December 11, 2003 02:06 PM         

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I think in many markets a formal education is nothing more than a foundation to build on in the real world.

In other subjects, it is an absolute requirement. Since I am in the realm of research and I have to work with chemical, bacterial agents and other toxic substances a degree was necessary. It was in my formal training that I learned about the proper practices and issues regarding the lab and the organisms I work with. I still find myself referring back to my Biochemistry notes and textbooks for more information, but if I had not taken those course, I would not have the foundation to know where to look.

In the same respect, I would not let a brain surgeon perform my operation because he "felt the real world provided enough training for him" or that "she saw enough procedures that she could just remove the tumor herself".

Nope, in this day and age a formal educational degree is very important depending on what path you choose to follow.

The university I attended was a very "hands on" school that put us into the lab within the first year. It was the same for the people majoring in education (they hit the classroom within their first year or freshman year) and business - internships started by the 2nd year of school.

I now work in business serve as the laison that takes the products from research to the market. I learned business from within the company, not through a business school program. I think somethings are common sense and one either has the talent or they don't. All the school in the world will not make a teacher great or a businessman savvy, it takes the education, skill, and natural born talent.

Okay, that's my two cents.

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 12, 2003 03:04 PM         

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Well-said, Pidaua. Obviously, in some specialized fields, education is important.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 897
From: North Carolina
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 17, 2004 02:11 PM         

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Star Signs, the Forgotten Melodies chapter, pages 286-7 in my trade paperback edition:
"When one's Third Eye is opened as widely and functioning as effectively as Backster's, orthodox higher education can be more of a hindrance than a help, in blocking clear thinking by restricting the imagination. In the same way that Abraham Lincoln became a lawyer, Cleve is mainly self-taught. Even without pursuing a Ph.D., one needs to master bushels of reading and study, but more true knowledge is gained when one studies what one is intensely interested in than from being forced to take courses of study for "credits" prescribed by others simply because this was the custom during the past decades in what was, quite literally, a completely different world. The Aquarian Age has changed all the rules.
The majority of those who have discovered or invented concepts that speeded up the evolution of Earth didn't possess the sheepskin many people today consider a necessary insurance policy for career success. But being deprived of that big degree can turn out to be a big plus. Let's make that a Big Plus.
If he had not been "deprived" of a master's degree in whatever scientific "discipline," Cleve Backster, the father of primary cell perception, might never have sired this miracle "child" destined to change the basic thought process of cynical modern science - and that he is surely doing! Then the scientists all over the world, not to mention you and me, would never have known that you can't cut your finger without it being felt and registered by the celery and brussels sprouts in your refrigerator, or more poetically ... that "you can't touch a flower without trembling a star."
There's always a compensation for every apparent "curse," ready to turn it into a blessing .... I happen to consider this "degree or not degree" of importance to high-school graduates today, who, for financial reasons, have been unable to enroll in college. You "deprived" ones must remember that Alexander the Great had conquered the world by the time he was eighteen, and had never taken a single course in "conquering"!"

Well, yet again, I must agree with our dear Linda ... and apparantly most of you here, too. I don't really think it matters whether or not you want to be rich or famous or whatever ... as long as you are doing what you love ... helping others and helping to make our world a better place ... then you will certainly be provided for, with or without someone else's seal of approval. I don't necessarily feel that everyone should strike against higher education ... certainly, for some people, it is a wise decision. If you really have an interest in psychology, have always been a good listener, are very perceptive, have a great deal of empathy, and would like nothing more than to help people work through their personal problems ... and you can afford the cost of a high level education ... then by all means, go on and get your Ph.D. and get doing what you were born to do! If you fit all those criteria except for the money for school, well then, get on out there and try to help as best you can anyway. You're sure to find a way to live your dreams if you just follow your heart!
I don't think degrees matter for much more than ... I guess what could loosely be called a reputation. Yes, sure, it is understandable that you wouldn't want a surgeon operating on you if he/she had never made it past high school. However, what about all the holistic healers out there, the shamans even, who have an innate gift for healing that is not taught in expensive medical schools? Perhaps their services could be of more use to you. You won't know until you try it, but nevertheless, the option is there.
I think that's the difference in this topsy-turvy Aquarian Age ... perhaps, once people listen to their Higher S-elves and set out to do what they love and were born to do, that the ways with which we currently live our lives, from health to recreation, will be vastly different. Perhaps that's all we need to do ... follow our hearts, do what we love, forget about the restrictions other people try to place on our dreams ... and we will see a whole new world unfold before our very eyes ... well, at the very least, there would plenty more happy people out there, I think!

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Posts: 165
From: south wales
Registered: Jan 2004

posted March 17, 2004 05:01 PM         

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My sister has a degree and has been told she's overqualified for jobs she's wanted. She is currently unemployed after ebing through many jobs she hates. She cannot be happy in a job !
I dropped out of university and found I learnt so much life experience, more rewarding than a qualification !
I began studying last year to get my foot in the door of careers I wanted to get into, now I've decided to set up my own business. I ahve no experience or education in that dept, but what the hey !! I guess it depends on what you want to do. If you have your heart set on something, I guess it's worth it.

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted March 20, 2004 10:55 AM         

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 31
From:
Registered: Jan 2003

posted March 20, 2004 03:14 PM         

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I'm a teacher, so I guess I'm kinda biased. I teach kids with emotional and behavioral problems who take learning for granted. They are in 9th grade but miles behind other kids their same age. Yes, the school of life definitely teaches lessons, but I believe that without formal education, one doesn't know how to pick and choose which lessons she should learn. I often have to teach basic social skills to my students. Yeah, most kids probably learn these skills through osmosis, but the bottom line is that we learn so much in the classroom that I feel we take for granted. You've got to be participatory though. Education is only as good as you make it, so if you don't want to learn, you probably won't. Henry Ford said: "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right!" Some people go into their classes (high school and college) and just sit there not wanting to learn anything. Others take the harder courses and put time into their education. I think with so much knowledge out there to learn, it's not a good idea to stop learning, so whether you get your knowledge from books or formal schools or the school of life, it's the learning that counts. Oh, and I also believe that as tough as it may be to get a job with a college degree (a stupid piece of paper), it's probably a lot tougher to get one with a GED or a high school diploma.

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted March 23, 2004 01:41 PM         

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Wisely stated, Mortega.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted April 05, 2004 07:50 AM         

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*bump*

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 950
From: California
Registered: May 2004

posted June 08, 2004 01:15 PM         

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You could have the best formal education in the whole world, but if you cannot apply it, it's totally useless.

I know an absolute genius in physics who can barely fuction in every day life. It's sad because he can't put any of it to good use.

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Posts: 4448
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004

posted June 08, 2004 06:37 PM         

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I believe a person can give themslef an education, whether it be formal or not. Finding topics that interest you and seeking more knowledge IS education IMO.

In that respect, I do think that it is very important to keep our minds active and learning.

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Posts: 1837
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted June 08, 2004 10:56 PM         

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Ok.
"When the student is ready the teacher will
appear".

Song writer, Janis Ian wrote in one of her songs, "You say, I'll take what I want, I say you'll get what you need".
Whatever your needs are, that is what will come to you. It may take time, but every step along the way, you will learn what you need to learn, and move on to the next thing you need to learn... When you are content, you will have mastered the most important lesson in life...... who you are.
Degree or no degree.

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted June 09, 2004 01:35 PM         

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 2911
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: May 2003

posted June 10, 2004 12:15 PM         

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Women often get trapped into the overqualified department:< My cousin was the first woman in our family, besides me to go to college and she still can't find regular employment. She has to wait tables, normally, she is a publicist. But she is starting her own business, so that;'s good,

More and more women are starting a business because that's the way to use those skills. If I didn't own rental properties I couldn't make a living with my degree, if I didn't paint and produce fabric for stores, what would I do? It's a good thing I am a lousy waitress.

Yes life is a good experience but it's unkind to those who do not have skills. A skill is more important, something you can use.

Natasha
Taurus

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Posts: 3
From:
Registered: Jan 2003

posted June 10, 2004 01:47 PM         

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When I was a teenager I dropped out because I wanted to grow up and live my life. I really had no support or vision for myself as to what college could do for me. After 10 yrs and a Ph.D in streetology and trade schools. I found my niche and honed it to perfection. Continued education whether it be self learning or higher education is still a viable option. I don't think we ever quite learning. Currently, I have no bachelors degree. But I have talent and enthusiasm to learn and get the job done right. Overall, I believe you have to willing to work hard for whatever you want. And not be afraid to ask for a raise when you know you are doing a good job. And don't be afraid to switch employers if your at a dead end job. I have worked with many an idiot with MBA's ( so an education without common sense is useless). Bottom line you have to be hungry for success.

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Posts: 1837
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted June 11, 2004 11:39 AM         

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Natasha,
Have you ever seen the movie "Being There" with Peter Sellers and Shirly McClaine? It's a good movie about innocence and the education everyone thought this man had. He compared all of his conversations with people to his experiences as a gardner. He know nothing else. You have to see the movie. At the end he walks on water because he does'nt know he can't.
My point is I have taken jobs, bull******* through the interview, with knowledge about people and life. Not job skills. Once in, I just pretended to know what I was doing, until I picked up on what was really happening. When I got bored, I moved on to the next job. Iwas never fired from a job. I'm not suggesting you go out and run for president, But I'm sure you could get into the CIA, if you didn't know you couldn't do it. My IQ isnt that high and never had book smarts, so I used what I had to make it through life. Don't let your mind set your boundries, use that third eve!. Best of luck!

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted June 12, 2004 11:08 AM         

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Tash, I don't think people realize how difficult a job being a server is.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 4448
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004

posted June 12, 2004 03:46 PM         

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I think waiting tables is one of the most difficult jobs out there. Not only is it fast paced and stressful.. but you have to deal with the condescending tones and BS from people that somehow think they are better than you because you wait tables for a living. I am an excellent waitress, but I have a real problem holding my tounge when I am being disrespected, and have been fired for doing just that.

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Posts: 1837
From: Douglas, AZ. USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted June 12, 2004 07:34 PM         

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Tasha,
As you can tell I love movies. I understand them better than books. Did you ever hear of a movie called "Good Will Hunting? The charactor Will didn't have a formal education but was a math genious.He worked as janitor at a college. The Math professor would post math problems on the wall outside his classroom for his students to solve, One of them was a problem only two or three people in the world could solve. So at night when Will was mopping up in front of the board, he casually solved one of the problems, and then another. After the instructor found out he was solving the problems he asked Will where he weht to school. He said something to the effect of "why would I waste thousands of dollars on an education that I can get at the local library for $1.50 in late fees?. Love the movie. That line has really had an impact on my outlook on my life.
Good Luck!

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Posts: 950
From: California
Registered: May 2004

posted June 19, 2004 02:27 AM         

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I had a pretty good formal education.
Has it really helped me that much in life?
Has it really helped me at all?
Nope! Nope! On both of those.

I was not educated in the things I ended up doing, nor was educated about life. I taught myself hands on, as I trotted along my journey. I educated myself by making mistakes along the way. I did pretty good at school, but that was only cause I was good at reading and transferring borrowed knowledge. You can do anything if you can do that and you want to enough.

I'm a kind of rogue scholar. I don't really believe that a BSc, or a PhD singles you out from the rest of humanity. I hate people who shove those in your face all the time. They are such academic snobs. Well, not all of them are like that I suppose, though most of them think if they can dicuss Dante's Inferno at any great length, it'll change the world as we know it!

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted June 20, 2004 12:35 PM         

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 6
From: st. louis, mo
Registered: Oct 2004

posted October 05, 2004 09:26 PM         

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i went to one of the most expensive private schools in st. louis, then i got kicked out for beating some kid who was antagonizing me. i then went through public school and ended up dropping out after some severe bouts with depression and horrible grades one semester.

ive learned so much more in the real world and never would have crossed paths with my 'teacher' as it were, had i not. though, i am only 18 so i will still most likely get some degree, when i have money... ha

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted October 05, 2004 11:54 PM         

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Welcome!

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 47
From: New Jersey
Registered: Nov 2003

posted October 06, 2004 02:56 PM         

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Hi everyone!
Wow, what a timely topic for me to come across. I've been struggling with this issue my whole life, but especially now. I have ached for a Bachelor's degree (external validation, perhaps?)and after a long absence from so called "higher education" I returned two years ago and got my associates in English at a community college. Best thing I ever did! Why? Because I learned that I have a talent for the written word. All five of my English professors told me "DON'T STOP WRITING!!" and it's something I love to do. So I decided to go for the Bachelors at a regular university. Ugh. The red tape and regulations and "advisement" ("no, don't take the classes you WANT, you NEED to take others") have made me wonder why I'm doing it. I have a love for learning, but this institution has deflated my joy in it. I read one of my short stories to my Education class (thought about teaching) and the professor told me "You have a gift, use it." My financial aid is making things difficult to continue on. I'm considering dropping out, again, and just trying to sustain myself on my massage therapy career (which I put on hold) and writing. I don't know what's going to happen, and I have self-doubt alot (what makes me think MY writing will be accepted and even paid for?) but I almost remember a quote I read years ago, and the gist of it was that every person is unique, and is a channel through which things are expressed, and if you don't use that channel to communicate it to the world, it will be lost forever. I guess that means there is room enough in this world for one more writer.

(my Libra ascendant is still weighing my options...)

Love to all,
Kat

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Posts: 20479
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted October 07, 2004 01:30 PM         

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Posts: 701
From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
Registered: Nov 2003

posted October 11, 2004 12:28 AM         

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I think some people need a degree whlie others don't. I'm one that needed it. Plus there is sometimes a lot of stress to get a degree from teachers, parents etc. I ended up with a Bachelor in IT which is helpful for my career as you can't do what I do without one. That said, other people have got into the industry with only one year certificate which is fine. I sometimes envy these people as they paid a lot less and somehow have more freedom. That said, I think the "lower" you are academically, the more competition there is. The more people at your level. IT is so broad now days and companies expect you to know everything and that they can just throw anything at you and expect you to fix it 24/7. I'm very happy with my career though as it gives me time to learn and talk to you guys as well as stability. My only problem is whether I want to stay here forever. There is still a lot of life out there. And other things to do and see. I think at the end of the day, you should get the perfect job you've always wanted. Until you want something else. I sometimes want to go back and study other degrees but I've learnt as everyone else here is saying that you can self teach yourself anything. For example, sometimes I'd like to study phyisics, and if I did, I could go to forums or research problems out there and go about solving them privately like Good Will, but then, you don't have the lab facilities or computer software which could help with simulations etc. Hence uni can be useful in getting you into certain doors, but they're not really necessary - it really depends on what you want to do. I sometimes think apprenticeships would be great, but the pay is fairly low.

Anyhow, my 2 cents.

Dean.

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