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Author
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Topic: Do We Need To Reform Our Schools?
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted January 28, 2001 10:13 AM
 
Schools strip away individuality and encourage compliance. Are we preventing future Einsteins by insisting that our children conform? We need schools, but we also need to reform the outdated ways in which they "program" our children!  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
sadoi
Knowflake Posts: 27
From: Chicago, IL
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted January 28, 2001 07:30 PM
Completely agree with you there, Randall! Right now, our education system sucks. If you go into any class in hs, I bet you that more than half the kids are struggling just to stay awake -- and it's not the kid's fault, it's because the lectures are so _boring_, and the teachers, for the most part, are just mindlessly repeating the same things over & over again -- and don't even get me started on how completely inaccurate and _wrong_ the textbooks are! I was lucky: my last three years, I got the chance to go to a boarding high school, where the teachers were so wonderful, and so passionate about what they were teaching. It was Mr. Hamburg who made Calculus fun and understandable for me, Dr. Skinner who made history come alive (to teach us about how wars in Classical Greece were fought, we went to the cornfields at the back of the school, & he split us up into two groups, once, & we duked it out using the methods & strategies used then. It was _so_ much fun, & he was always comin' up w/stuff like that!), & Ms. White who taught me to love poetry. The week after we got back from Christmas break was called intersession, where we signed up for a short one-week course on a subject we were interested in. Some ppl went abroad, some ppl stayed & learned HTML, etc. One of my best experiences was when Ms. White took me & four others to this Artist's Retreat in Kentucky -- was on the grounds of a Franciscan monastery, and there were acres and acres of woods all around; it was one of the most peaceful places I had ever been to, & I'll always be grateful to her for that experience. I'm sure that there are some really dedicated public school teachers out there, but for the most part, they aren't doing a very good job. And how do you expect a student to get interested in a subject, & learn enough to master it ('cause you gotta know _something_ about math before you can be the next Einstein, and _something_ about writing before you can be another Pound or Eliot), if the teachers show no love & enthusiasm for the subject, instead making it incredibly boring? To reform our schools, we need to reform the way we think 'bout the teaching profession: to choose our teachers more carefully, and to give them our respect. 'Cause if you have a good teacher, who loves teaching & loves _what_ he's teaching, he's gonna care about each student, and try and make each one feel the same passion he has, & find creative ways of making them _think_. Not just mindlessly repeating the (at times inaccurate) stuff in the textbooks! So school becomes more than seven hours of boredom -- it becomes a place where you have the freedom to find out who you are, what you're passionate about, & pursue it. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted January 28, 2001 09:36 PM
Amen, Sadoi! And awomen!  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
gooberlily
Knowflake Posts: 2296
From: Brooklyn, (and Norwich) NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted January 28, 2001 11:36 PM
I agree with you Randall, and I most certainly agree with you Sadoi...those were great stories too! Thanks for sharing them.It's sad now how much pressure children (and people of older ages) are put through in order to pass their subjects. I hated school. I had one or two teachers when I was younger that really made a difference in my education, and value for it. One teacher was Ms. Nicolaysen, my fifth grade teacher...who sometimes just sat and talked with us about her travels around the world, and taught us through stories. My other favorite teacher was also when I was in 5th grade. Mr. Greenberg came to class once a week to introduce us to poetry and encourage us to write, using all different kinds of poetic styles. He was the first teacher I had, who I felt believed in me, and loved what he was doing as a teacher. When I was in high school, I was sick a lot, so I had home instruction. I basically had home instruction from the ages of 13 to 17. I was in and out of regular high school. My home-teacher Ms. Cosmai was and is a wonderful person, we still send each other cards on Christmas and stuff. She fought with the New York City board of Education (not a wise or easy thing to do) because they didn't want to give me credit for my art history and art courses with her. She actually took some of my paintings from my house and marched down to the Board of Education, fighting tooth and nail for me. What an  woman she is! I admire her so much, she really helped me with my Spanish, by making it conversational (she speaks seven or eight languages), and she never pressured me or made me feel like I was dumb...which I felt a lot of the time, especially when I was trying to do math  This country, and world, need dedicated teachers who want to help others by sharing what they know. I salute your favorite teachers, as well as mine, because they have helped and are helping to make the world a great place to learn. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted January 29, 2001 12:25 AM
Salute' to the few, the proud, the teachers who really care. There is no greater honor than that of helping to give children hope and the means to attain their dreams.  ------------------
Consider the circle, measure it please,
All its three hundred and sixty degrees.
Wasn't that fun, and haven't you found
You can do it again, the other way 'round? Now that we know how many degrees,
Must be accounted for nice as you please
Here come astrologers, what do they say?
Divide the degrees in precisely this way.
Take thirty degrees for each of the signs
It makes a nice wheel divided by lines. Chris Angelino IP: Logged |
Grasshopper
Moderator Posts: 285
From: Vermont
Registered: May 2001
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posted May 14, 2001 06:00 PM
Schools suck ... ? Not really. Not in perspective. Think about it ... School as an institution is relatively young. They haven't been around all that long compared to education as a whole. This isn't Plato sitting in the village square. This masses of young bodies and a handful of teachers. Kinda wild concept by comparison. Schools are trying by comparison. But U have two important things going on. One is that schools are looking for an identity. There are a million and one theories of education, and they are all valuable, but poorly researched. It's like school as an institution is in its adolescence, looking and searching for identity. Further, schools understand that there but two lasting bequests we can grant our children. The First is roots. And the second is wings. In desperate need for structure, as much to secure its own identity, schools often forget that today is a good day to fly. Shame on U teachers that let that happen!!!Ok Ok ... there are a world of problems with the school system today. And I don't know how to handle them. I want my elfs homeschooled. But I'm also studying to be a teacher in the public school system. Hmmm ... maybe all that needs to happen is for Schools as an institution to ... Stand out of Their own Light! IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 14, 2001 07:20 PM
I agree, Grasshopper, but with some qualifiers. A good teacher can really make a difference, but a bad teacher can cause irreparable harm. Schools have created an underlying mission that supercedes all others--that of BRAINWASHING. We induct children into conformity, and when they don't fit this mold (when they try to spread their creative wings and soar), we drug them into submission. Modern education could learn a lot from Plato.  ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Grasshopper
Moderator Posts: 285
From: Vermont
Registered: May 2001
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posted May 14, 2001 08:54 PM
Brainwashing, eh? I don't buy it. Show me a motive ...IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 15, 2001 12:54 AM
The motive is simple. Conformity. We even created a dis-ease to give us a reason to drug children that rebel against the rules of society. I highly recommend The Myth Of The A.D.D. Child by Dr. Thomas Armstrong (the well-respected educator who created Multiple Intelligences).  ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Marigold
Knowflake Posts: 771
From: England
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted May 15, 2001 03:48 AM
I don't think it's necessarily the teacher's fault if school are conformists and boring...
If you don't do Text 3 after Text 4 because you work on a more interesting topic, you have an army of housewives waiting at the gate to ask you why. Tiring. Have you seen that teacher who was attacked by parents of other classes in the school because she used a book they considered as racist? I saw that on the Montel show.
And difficult to always do creative stuff when you have several levels to teach in a same class, like those learning how to read and older ones at the same time, that's what happens in small schools. It's possible but exhausting, then you have the Administration wanting paperwork, reports of all kinds, and you have to spend your week-ends preparing activities when it's not helping at the school fete...Premature aging I tell you!I haven't read Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich is it? but it sounds good! IP: Logged |
Grasshopper
Moderator Posts: 285
From: Vermont
Registered: May 2001
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posted May 15, 2001 07:16 AM
Randall ... I'll press again ... Conformity is not a motive so much as a result. I'm not clear as to why. Hmm, I'll try and find that book and perhaps understand your position.I notice that U say we have to have schools but change the way the operate. Then U talk about the root of Schools being vile in their quest for conformity. It sounds like U are saying at is root, School is evil (vile, hmm, how about that) but if we change the way it operates it could be a lesser evil. But U don't seem to indicate that what School is at is core can or will change. IP: Logged |
Marigold
Knowflake Posts: 771
From: England
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted May 15, 2001 08:56 AM
School reflects Society. Average children will do better at school in the long run than obviously the weakest ones but even the brightest ones because those ones will be bored and won't find what they are interested in in school.
If you come from an average family you will believe in School/Society values whereas if there are some problems in your family (unemployment, depression, abuse, alcoholism, parental rows) already you won't take an easy life for granted and won't expect rosy prospects...you are more likely to be inattentive in school.
I've met some very intelligent kids who didn't do too well in school because they weren't motivated or had too much on their mind to keep focused because of their family background. They had no ambition or some limited to their true interests, I hope they will do well...
They were too clever and too unsettled to conform.
I personally think that Education should be available all life long and not only to sort people in different casts practically from the start.
IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 15, 2001 09:12 AM
Grasshopper, that book will clarify. Conformity is more than a result. It's demanded. The brightest, most creative, and potential leaders of society are drugged. We don't want children that defy the status quo, because then the status quo gets nervous. We need rules in society for society to function, but it's the rule breakers that create all that we have. If not for the Martin Luther King, Jr's of the world, we would have no world worth living in. There are people alive today that wish MLK, Jr was placed on heavy Ritalin when he was a child to stop what he started! The teachers are just as brainwashed by their college classes as the students they brainwash. I've had many classes with them. Over half of them should be fired. It's just a job to them. They don't care about those kids. They want them to sit there like robots. We are turning our most precious commodity into a bunch of zombies. Teachers don't question whether or not ADD is real. They want to bury their heads in the sand. Most parents don't question it either. It takes the responsibility off their shoulders by blaming behavior on a dis-ease. Behavior is learned!Wayne Dyer once overheard his teacher outside the classroom door talking to the principal about him (luckily Ritalin wasn't around back then, or we would have lost another great leader). He went home and told his father what he had heard. Wayne asked his dad, "What's a Scurvy Elephant?" "Why do you ask," his father replied? "My teacher told the principal I was a Scurvy Elephant." His father visited the teacher and asked why she called his son that. The teacher replied, "Oh no, your son misheard what I said. I called him a DISTURBING ELEMENT!" Thank God Wayne was a disturbing element. And thank God for all the Scurvy Elephants of the world who choose to rise above mediocrity and be great.  ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 15, 2001 09:19 AM
Grasshopper, what is so vile/evil about schools is their insistence to drug children into submission. You will never convince me that this is a good thing. In a country that uses a full 90 percent of the entire world's supply of Ritalin, all with the unquestioning consent of most of the teachers, you will never be able to convince me that most teachers deserve my admiration or my respect. Of course, there are exceptions. I k-NOW a few truly superb teachers. Thanks to Dr. Armstrong, even psychiatrists are beginning to denounce ADD as a real disorder. ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Grasshopper
Moderator Posts: 285
From: Vermont
Registered: May 2001
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posted May 15, 2001 09:55 AM
Randall ...Parents come into the equation where? Hmm, I'll grant U that schools foolishly believe that the way to approach children in the best way is by standardizing teaching across the board. Have U read Animal School? It illustrates nicely the folly of this. Hmmm, I'll even grant U that their are a lot of teachers too tired to find creative ways to deal w. a child's exuberance. These are Not good things. But they are honestly not the problems. They are symptoms of the problem. The problem is a lack of proper focus. Schools suffer immense pressure from parents and society to not teach our children or enlighten them, but rather to make them feel successful in a very false pretense. Sooo, under the shadows of what adults determine success, perhaps we do ask the wee ones to conform. Perhaps we do wish to brainwash them. Perhaps Ritalin is an effective controlling device. They are still only symptoms. If we believe that schools Can be healthy for our children, then by all means trim the branches here and there. It Is useful. But vitally important is to transplant it from it's decayed soil and ground the roots closer to the stuff that gave us Plato, Hawthoren, Einstein, Linda and me (can tell I'm a Leo, eh?). After this daunting task is accomplished, we can all stand back with our proud arms folded beholding this new Tree of Educatioin and nod, "Quite." IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 15, 2001 10:04 AM
You are going to make a superlative teacher. Too bad there aren't more like you. ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 15, 2001 03:06 PM
Parents are at the core of the equation. Some parents expect schools to fulfill many of the parental duties. Children require loads of Loving attention (hence the Star Sign found withing ADD--"attention-deficit"). Parents should not be so easily duped by a conspiring (literally) psychopharmaceutical theocracy whose sole interest is in making billions of dollars peddling drugs to children as young as two years old! ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 18, 2001 03:57 PM
Not only is there nothing wrong with so-called ADD children, but they are exceptionally intelligent and have near genius creativity. How sad that we convince normal children they are disordered, treat creativity as a dis-ease, and medicate away all individuality. Shame on all of us for allowing this travesty to continue! ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Grasshopper
Moderator Posts: 285
From: Vermont
Registered: May 2001
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posted May 18, 2001 11:25 PM
Quite!IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 19, 2001 02:33 AM
I wrote a research paper for a college class (on ADD, by the way), and I ended it with "Quite!" STRANGE! ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
Australdi
Knowflake Posts: 401
From: Australia
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted May 19, 2001 03:19 AM
one word....Montessori
Aus IP: Logged |
Marigold
Knowflake Posts: 771
From: England
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted May 19, 2001 05:44 AM
I don't think all kids with ADD are geniuses, some are agitated for various reasons, not enough sleep, not enough silence, sugar addiction, or just lively healthy kids who would prefer to run in the fields. But everybody is gifted in some way, even if it's harder to see in some, and the purpose of school and of life should be to discover our particular gifts and share with others, and help each other learn and grow.IP: Logged |
Marigold
Knowflake Posts: 771
From: England
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted May 19, 2001 05:50 AM
I've been a school teacher for many years by the way, but at one point I was totally burnt out, physically and mentally.IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 16464
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 19, 2001 12:59 PM
Creative geniuses is more apt a term. ADD children are more creative than the general populace at large. This should be nurtured and not drugged away. The status quo is frightened of them, because they defy authority. There's a place for rules, but without the rulebreakers of society, we would have no great leaders. There are really only two core laws that should be followed in society: Don't hurt anybody, and don't take their stuff. Everything else is just a way for lawyers to bilk the public and a way for politicians to control us. Here's to all the SCURVY ELEPHANTS of the world! CHEERS!  ------------------
"The ancestor to every action is a thought." EMERSON IP: Logged |
YIVY
Knowflake Posts: 4747
From: Louisiana
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted May 19, 2001 06:47 PM
I had almost forgotten about the 'Scurvy Elephants'....A 'TOAST' to the day they finally are truly FREE!!! A day the rest of the world WAKES UP!!!!  ------------------
@~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman" IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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