posted July 14, 2003 12:02 PM         

Read John 3:16 with this in mind, for example.

posted July 14, 2003 11:07 PM         

Christ knew the soul to be immortal, so why a promise of everlasting life for the soul if this we already have? That never made much sense to me.

And why the resurrection? Perhaps to show us, by example, that we can be masters of the flesh?

To paraphrase Him : "All of the works you see me do, you will do these and greater."

posted July 15, 2003 02:13 PM         

He does not do this, is the simple answer. We create our own realities. We are He, and He is we.

We are a spirit/soul before we enter "heaven". The spirit cannot perish, before, during, or after. Heaven on Earth (spirit in matter) is our right to pursue.

You believe in reincarnation?

posted July 15, 2003 02:49 PM         

"why would God, who loves us beyond all measure, and who gave to us the Free Will to do as we choose, and who is Forgiveness Himself ... why could he, how could he, condemn his own children to everlasting pain, suffering, torment, and death for any reason?"

This is why Christianity never worked for me. I was brought up a christian,and through the years I realized that I just couldn't believe in it. There's too many 'holes', too many pieces missing. I believe that heaven and hell are meant to be viewed as actual places. It mentions them in the bible and it implies that they are actual places (whether they are your own personal heaven/hell is irrelevant) where we will be 'sent' to depending on how much unforgiven negativity we put out into the world.

And that's true that we are/have a soul or spirit before we die, but what I meant was,looking at it from a christian point of view, our souls experience eternal heaven/hell after we die and are 'judged'. Of course,our souls never die, that's why hell is called 'eternal death'. The only actual proof (if it's needed) that we have of the christian god, is a book. You're not supposed add to it or take (discard) certain information from it, it states. Another reason it never worked for me.

posted July 15, 2003 10:12 PM         

Yes, I do think we are getting off topic.

posted November 21, 2004 08:32 PM         

You said "Wherever you are" Ra. Is that to say that you don't know who deathnomore is or where he is at at this time?

I have run across some old threads by this deathnomore person, and you're right, he seems passionate about immortality.

In fact, I have one post by him where he comes on, almost (pardon the strong terminology) "messianic" in his plea for others to follow his words and listen to his message.

He actually reminded me a great deal of our "guru" friend's original post. I'll see if I can't dig up these old posts and share them with you people.

Now that I think about it, I believe you DID appear in them, Ra. You and someone named Gregory.

There was a lot of arguing and DeathNoMore was complaining that people were insulting him, calling him names and being rude to him for just speaking his mind. He cried out to the Administrator Gregory to take action.

Maybe if people get a chance to read DeathNoMore's words, they'll understand what it was that he said which changed your life.

By the way, I've done a little extra investigating, and you'll be pleased to know that DNM is still around and in fact here at Lindaland.

Peace and the best of luck on your quest for immortality. Don't take any wooden nickels from any false "Gurus", aight man?

posted November 21, 2004 08:49 PM         

Oranges and Hyacinths

DeathNoMore

I didn't know you claimed to be a Teacher as well Randall! (Just found that you signed your deathnomore posts as --Randall) I also didn't know that you were using the Holy Scriptures to support your belief in immortality.

You were...right? I mean here is just one quote from deathnomore:

"The Book of Revelations is quite clear about how many will Rule in "heaven." The total sum of the Souls who stayed behind eons ago and those who shall return is exactly 144,000. Where do you suppose the rest of us will be? Where we belong--here on Earth and physically immortal!"

So you mean, it was ok for you to come on to a site, start preaching and Teaching and promising people the "Waters of Life" and the teachings of Truth, but you are vehemetly opposed to anyone else doing the same?

I'm not sure I understand.

Please help me understand what this means Randall! Are you deathnomore?
(This is all very confusing.)

Ra, this also makes it seem like you KNEW that Randall was deathnomore, but then you say "Where ever you are..." earlier in this thread, even though Randall himself posted on this same thread.

What does all of this mean? Are people not to know that Randall used the name DeathNoMore? Are we supposed to think that deathnomore is a different person? IS deathnomore a different person?

Or is that you Randall?

Man...this is all so confusing. Help a bruthah out people. Is it ok to preach what we believe or isn't it? Should the Administrator step in when people are rude to those that try to Teach, or shouldn't they? So many questions this brings up.

Of course, if you're not DeathNoMore Randall, then I guess it might be as simple as "DeathNoMore was a religious crackpot who would have been properly put in his place here at Lindaland"...right"?

posted November 21, 2004 10:01 PM         

Here are some of the reasons I had questions:

For one, here is a quote from deathnomore, now this IS you right?

quote:

---

"I am here for a Mission of massive proportions, and to accomplish it, I need only this one tiny thread. Let all who are thirsty, come drink, for the thirst of death and its mind-numbing venom of lies shall be no more. Awake! Stir from sleep and slumber, all ye seekers of Truth. The morning is upon us..."

---

I mean, that sounds like a call for people to listen to deathnomore's words. Right? Am I drunk or isn't that what the post implies?

See, that starts to sound a lot like someone asking people to take his word as Truth.

Then there's deathnomore's response to Gregory when people were tearing into him:

quote:

---

"Any immortals here? Any seeking Immortality? Drop by, and talk fer a spell. Kick off yer shoes, and relax. Immortality has been taking a bashing 'round here lately. You'll get no rebuke from I. What you will get is another perspective. Gregory, I promise to keep it toned down, but likewise, I expect you to jump in when need be in my defense. Deal? Other than that, I cannot wait to talk about my passion, my devotion, and my Love for physical immortality (among other things). Let the games begin..."

---

So deathnomore means that someone should be able to speak passionately about something they believe in without getting bashed Right?

And the Administrator should jump in if they are being treated unfairly?

I honestly believe that you were just speaking about something you feel strongly about. (You ARE deathnomore, then right?) So why so defensive? Why start to attack me for asking valid questions? Why bring up drugs and alcohol, Randall? Why change the subject? I mean these are all valid questions.

It seems to me, again, that you were just speaking about something you believe in strongly, immortality, but according to Gregory, the administrator there, your posts caused tension among the members of the board. Here's a quote from Gregory about deathnomore:

quote:

---

"On the other hand, I also empathize with those who are antagonized by DNM's manner of making authoritative "pronouncements" in a way that implies that anyone who does not agree with him is only to be pitied. Just being honest here, Deathnomore, that rankles me, too. I don't like being TOLD things (such as, for example, what Linda thought and felt before and after she passed) that are highly subjective opinions at best, in a manner that suggests that they are absolute facts that you are the authority on."

---

Does that mean that your posts are "contensious" simply because you spoke what you felt was right and true?

I'm trying to get a handle on this Randall, because the more I read, the more it sounds like you've been treating other people here like you were being treated back then.

(Let's exclude me because I can take it and don't need anyone to "back off" if I want to speak out about whatever I feel like speaking out about. Take this for instance.)

Now, without calling me a lunatic or a druggie or whatever, can you answer those simple questions?

Because I have a lot more questions...and a lot more quotes from that site that seem to indicate that someone's not playing fair.

Here's another one...you claim you weren't proclaiming yourself as a Teacher, but this quote seems to indicate that you WERE at one time calling yourself a Teacher:

quote:

---

"To those who question my Teaching style: It has served me well. I try to downplay it on this site, but it has helped many. I have to be me. As RA has said, negative reactions to my words come from within, not without. That helps some to seek Light." - deathnomore

---

So where do the negative reactions to say...IAmThat's words come from? Or anyone that thinks they have something to Teach?

Do they come from the speaker or the audience? Are they being contentious? Or does the contention come from those who respond to them?

These are your words, Randall.

Explain this to me, I don't understand.

And again, if you could just do so like a rational adult, and not call me names and talk trash about me while rolling your eyes, it would be appreciated.

After the way others have been treated here, the way they have been insulted, these are very valid questions that many folks here have a right to have answered.

Thanks for your time,

daf

P.S. Another question (sorry, I have so many after finding this site):

posted November 21, 2004 10:26 PM         

But Linda told us to follow our G.U.R.U. and so on that point, I'll have to concede that Magidivision made a valid point that some folks just missed completely. Course we all knew that we should follow our GURU, sometimes we don't and I dont think anyone was ready to have someone say it like that.

To get back to my questions:

What you're saying is that you were wrong about people having the right to speak about something they believe in passionately? Or you were just wrong about calling yourself a Teacher? Or you were wrong about wanting Gregory to stick up for you when people attacked you for your beliefs?

Oh and thanks for not bringing up drugs, alcohol, venereal diseases or calling me a Democrat this time. I appreciate it, and I've always felt that people should spend more time around here responding as you did in your second post, and less time responding as you did in your first.

Thanks,

daf

P.S. Just so you can get a better idea of what you're saying should you slip and decide to say it: Alcohol has never been the problem, it makes me feel bloated and I have to pee a lot.

Weed was always the problem, and I'm happy to say I haven't smoked any for a month and a half now. I'll always have that demon to deal with, but war is hell and the battle against our cravings is the toughest war of all.

Perhaps my biggest demon will be the tendency I have not to hide my failings and my problems from others. As you can see, sharing the reality of my life will come back to bite me, particularly when read by those who figure that attacks on my character will back me down from speaking my mind.

(In most cases, they miscalculate when they do that, but I'm getting off topic.)

posted November 21, 2004 10:36 PM         

Notice how you managed to reinstate the very disparaging remark that you claimed to have regretted posting in the first place?

C'mon man, we can do better, two intelligent guys like us.

posted November 21, 2004 10:39 PM         

Do you still feel that you were treated unfairly by others who disagreed with you?

Do you still feel that Gregory should have stepped in when people became rude and started ganging up on you?

Again, just questions. If we're looking at learning from our mistakes, shouldn't that also include our RECENT mistakes?

daf

P.S. I'm also interested in learning what helped you to realize you were wrong and grow from it. Was it just a realization you made? If it was, don't you think that everyone is entitled to make the mistakes you have and learn from them at their own pace?

There will be MANY who will come on here with very passionate beliefs about things they think will help people.

Perhaps their approach is wrong, but isn't that how they will learn? By making the mistakes and learning from them? Don't you think they should have the very same opportunity to make those mistakes and learn from them that you and I have? (I won't say that we've learned the same lessons. For instance, I feel VERY passionately about people being able to speak their minds without being responded to in a disrespectful manner. And so I speak out about it, passionately. (Granted, sometimes, I'll just shoot back to people what they are shooting at me, hoping that the ever downward spiralling stupidity of it all will finally become obvious to them. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.)

I don't care if a speaker is right or wrong. If they are right, others will learn something, if they are wrong, THEY will learn something. That's how it should go. But I truly believe that more people would feel comfortable speaking their mind if they weren't afraid to get bashed for it. As the Admin here, you have a lot to say when that happens, and you can take sides, or you can be even-handed.

I believe you when you say you've learned from the deathnomore experience. I also believe that it shows you are a reasonable man who is willing to learn from his mistakes and try to right his wrongs. (At least I hope you do.) If you will take this earnest plea into careful consideration, moderating the mods when they get out of hand, and letting folks politely speak their minds without fear of being attacked, it would be very much appreciated.

DeathNoMore has a lot to teach us all, if only we will listen to the lessons of this episode in your life, Randall.

DeathNoMore wasn't always wrong, in fact, he was quite right about many things, particularly free speech in a civil society.

(As to the drugs and alcohol thing, I thought the issue was that you felt you shouldn't have said it in the first place. Oh well, my entire issue with the comment was that it was rude, and you've retracted it, so I take that as a step forward around here. The editing feature is pretty damned handy, isn't it? Specially when yer only human. By the way, this whole "warped thinking process" of mine began when someone else brought their concerns to my attention via email.

posted November 21, 2004 10:43 PM         

Because I was proselityzing, YES, NO, and NO.

posted November 21, 2004 11:16 PM         

For the record, Daf has no influence here, so if anyone has any concerns about this site, go directly to the top and e-mail me.

posted November 21, 2004 11:23 PM         

So I will continue to speak my mind and edit my posts as I see fit, unless of course you believe that ridding yourself of me would be a more appropriate and even-handed response.

daf

posted November 22, 2004 03:23 AM         

*poof*

...just dusting off some old stale words here....

posted November 22, 2004 06:50 AM         

At the same time, I don't see ugliness in Dafremen's words, although I do see how, had they been directed at me personally, they could have been taken as an attack. When someone questions our decisions, decisions that were made with our best of intentions, it can certainly sting... something I stuggle with daily. I'm not saying that this is what happened, just what I got out of it without knowing the full story.

But everyone has different ways of learning. Some people question sharply, something I can relate to, and oftentimes this begins an unintentional cycle of negativity. Like I said, I don't know the full history, if any exists, between Randall and Dafremen; I only know what is before my eyes at this present moment. Perhaps further research would reveal something more, but for my purposes, I don't think it's necessary to go digging into that.

It doesn't seem to me that anyone is right here or wrong. We're all Buckeyes, right?! Oh, I guess we're not in Ohio anymore! (Couldn't help that; it works around here!) I only want to say that I was moved by this thread~ moved by Randall's words of personal change, and moved by Dafremen's quest for truth. Much love to both of you... I very much value both of your presences here at Lindaland!

PS... I wanted to add more about our different ways of learning, because it is something that has caused me some pain/frustration since I have come here. I ask a lot of questions and frequently feel like I am only getting in the way. But I came here because I have been reading Linda for a very long time and I have always had questions about her words. I can't express how very happy I was to find this place where I could be in touch with others who have read the things that I have read, as I don't often come across these people in "actual" life. Much has been said about people who come in to get what they want without offering anything in return and I have often wondered if I was "one of those people." The thing is, that without knowledge, I don't feel that I can contribute, as I wouldn't want to lead anyone astray. I came here to learn. This place is a blessing to me as I see that there are many here from whom I can learn. However, I feel like people like me are sometimes ostracized by those in the know. It is hard to grow when you feel that you are being put down. I don't think that anyone has done this intentionally and I do try to see the other point of view. I know how it feels when someone who knows less than I do comes to me for answers, answers that I have worked hard to come to on my own, and it can feel like you're passing along a freebie. I only say this so that anyone who may feel this way about me might also be able to consider my "place" and perhaps not judge me too harshly. And not only me, but others as well, as I can see that I am not the only one to whom this happens.

I don't think that anyone is, overall, trying to be mean. I'm just trying to shed some light from both sides of the fence, so that maybe some of these "negative" cycles can become "positive." For the most part, I have found the people here at Lindaland to be knowledgeable and supportive, and I appreciate all of those who have helped me on my way. Teaching doesn't always have to be direct and I don't expect "freebies." I only expect that those who may be a little further ahead try not to think so harshly on those of us who may be a little bit behind. And to those who are behind, you/we can't expect all things to be handed to us, the journey can be difficult and for each of us and is highly personal, so don't be afraid to find your own truths, as have those who are ahead of us.