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Author Topic:   Mark of the beast
26taurus
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posted August 18, 2005 05:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
<doesnt either>

Well said venus rising!

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Petron
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posted August 18, 2005 07:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i dont know if anyone has pointed out "the other" numbers listed in ancient manuscripts.....616(or 665)


**********

The Other Number of the Beast: 616
P.Oxy. LVI 4499
The newest volume of Oxyrhynchus Papyri contains a fragmentary papyrus of Revelation which is the earliest known witness to some sections (late third / early fourth century). A detailed discussion of its place in the MS tradition is given in the printed volume. You will find images at 150dpi and 300dpi in the papyri section of this site, accessible from the main menu.

One feature of particular interest is the number that this papyrus assigns to the Beast: 616, rather than the usual 666. (665 is also found.) We knew that this variant existed: Irenaeus cites (and refutes) it. But this is the earliest instance that has so far been found. The number — chi, iota, stigma (hexakosiai deka hex) — is in the third line of the fragment shown below. But why does it matter what the number is? For that, we have to turn to ancient Greek ideas about numerology.
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm


********

Papyrus Reveals New Clues to Ancient World
James Owen
for National Geographic News
April 25, 2005

Classical Greek and Roman literature is being read for the first time in 2,000 years thanks to new technology. The previously illegible texts are among a hoard of papyrus manuscripts. Scholars say the rediscovered writings will provide a fascinating new window into the ancient world.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0425_050425_papyrus.html

******

This alternative formulation for the Number of the Beast as 616 is very ancient and is attested to by St Irenaeus of Lyon who, writing (in Greek) in the middle of the second century AD, attributed it to scribal error:

quote:
Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies, and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),

—I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number.


http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2005/05/03-1238-8645.html

********

that being said, i dont really trust irenaeus either....


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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2005 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000186.html


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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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venus_rising
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posted August 19, 2005 01:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maklhouf,

I guess I am lucky because there is nothing that I need on the world wide web that I cannot purchase or do right down the street from where I live. Live locally, buy locally, right? Simplify.
Maybe it could be called the inconvenience of living or life.
I don't know maybe it's easier for me because my family was extremely poor when I was a kid and for several years we lived without running water or electricity. That is normal in some countries, but not in the U.S.
We actually hauled water in from the creek and heated it on our wood stove for baths!!!! And to wash clothes. So I am pretty comfortable with very little even though most people would never know that just by looking at me. : )

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maklhouf
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posted August 19, 2005 08:25 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I get what you say, its the ebb and flow. People start off community based and after a few witch trials they start to think a wider community would be a good idea. The community of free thinkers needs the WWW methinks, and we have to trade.
I am hoping someone from the so-called third world can help us out here. Lots of people in that sector are very computer literate and lots of them also do business wihout banks.

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lotusheartone
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posted August 19, 2005 12:35 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW! First time reading in this forum.

We all have to remember, we are all sisters and brothers. We are all equal, and We all need each other.
There's alot of us here, if we all pray and meditate together(Collective Consciousness) We can bring Peace on Earth.
With Love and Light, then...
MAGIC

from Barries Peter Pan
The extroardinary upshot of this adventure was...but we have not decided yet that this is the adventure we are to narrate.
____________________________________

Nonetheless, I am not a number. And as far as micro chips, they've changed all that, I believe they're going to scan our eyes, none are the same???

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Grasshopper
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posted August 19, 2005 01:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Regarding the old-school way being such tedious and hard work (para-phrasing), I remember the movie, "The Air Up There," that Kevin Bacon classic <smirk> in which Bacon tells an African tribe that a pump could save so much time since the tribe wounldn't have to form a huge line to gather water from the river. The answer was, "But when would we have time to socialize." It's all about what we choose to make important.

Maklhouf, your comments on the world wide web are tickling something in my memory I think you'll like ... but curses, I just can't recall it exactly. Maybe I have forgotten more than I know. I'll try and remember for you and keep you posted!

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"The reason why birds can fly and man cannot is simply that they have perfect faith; for to have faith is to have wings." ~JM Barrie

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lotusheartone
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posted August 19, 2005 01:24 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, I left here with 666 on the brain, and started to spiral:
extraterrestrials = 45 = 9
aliens =18 = 9
fallen angels = 45 = 9

reverse the poles of 999

Angels = 20 = 2 Judgement, and the Moon and Mother Earth.

I don't know, thought it was interesting.
I'm a goober afteralll

Love and Light

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maklhouf
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posted August 20, 2005 05:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Grasshopper. I always am wary of AID programs for the 3rd world. It strikes me the only aid they need is to realise how rich and free they already are.
Re: getting rid of credit cards. Every action should have a pro and anti basis. Destroy the credit card, but support every prepay, debit option as well.

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SunChild
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posted October 07, 2005 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Found a recent article.

Human chips more than skin deep
CNET News.com

There's not a lot of middle ground on the subject of implanting electronic identification chips in humans.

Advocates of technologies like radio frequency identification tags say their potentially life-saving benefits far outweigh any Orwellian concerns about privacy. RFID tags sewn into clothing or even embedded under people's skin could curb identity theft, help identify disaster victims and improve medical care, they say.

Critics, however, say such technologies would make it easier for government agencies to track a person's every movement and allow widespread invasion of privacy. Abuse could take countless other forms, including corporations surreptitiously identifying shoppers for relentless sales pitches. Critics also speculate about a day when people's possessions will be tagged--allowing nosy subway riders with the right technology to examine the contents of nearby purses and backpacks.

"Invasion of privacy is going to be impossible to avoid," said Katherine Albrecht, the founder and director of Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering, or CASPIAN, a watchdog group created to monitor the use of data collected in the so-called loyalty programs used increasingly by supermarkets. Albrecht worries about a day when "every physical item is registered to its owner."

The overriding idea behind tagging people with chips--whether through implants or wearable devices such as bracelets--is to improve identification and, consequently, tighten access to restricted information or physical areas.

But on top of civil liberties and other policy issues, such technologies face visceral objections from many people who frown on the idea of being implanted with tags that can track them like migrating tuna. Complaints have led several companies to abandon plans to use RFID technologies in products, much less in human bodies.

The concept of implanting chips for tracking purposes was introduced to the general public more than a decade ago, when pet owners began using them to keep tabs on dogs and cats. The notion of embedding RFID tags in the human body, though, remained largely theoretical until the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, when a technology executive saw firefighters writing their badge numbers on their arms so that they could be identified in case they became disfigured or trapped.

Richard Seelig, vice president of medical applications at security specialist Applied Digital Solutions, inserted a tracking tag in his own arm and told the company's CEO that it worked. A new product, the VeriChip, was born.

Applied Digital formed a division named after the chip and says it has sold about 7,000 of the electronic tags. An estimated 1,000 have been inserted in humans, mostly outside the United States, with no harmful physical side effects reported from the subcutaneous implants, the company said.

"It is used instead of other biometric applications," such as fingerprints, said Angela Fulcher, vice president of marketing at VeriChip, which is based in Palm Beach, Fla. The basic technology comes from Digital Angel, a sister company under the Applied corporate umbrella that has sold thousands of tags for identifying pets and other animals.

VeriChip makes 11-millimeter RFID tags that are implanted in the fatty tissue below the right tricep. When near a scanner, the chip is activated and emits an ID number. When a person's tag number matches an ID in a database, the person is allowed to enter a secured room or complete a financial transaction.

So far, enhancing physical security--controlling access to buildings or other areas--remains the most common application. RFID chips cannot track someone in real time the way the Global Positioning System does, but they can provide information such as whether a particular individual has gone through a door.

Latin American customers are looking at both technologies for security purposes, which partly explains why some of VeriChip's early clients included Mexico's attorney general, as well as a Mexican agency trying to curb the country's kidnapping epidemic, and commercial distributors in Venezuela and Colombia.

The value of these technologies was underscored recently by a CNET News.com reader who wrote from Puerto Rico to inquire about their development. In her e-mail, Frances Pabon said she hopes that RFID or GPS technologies can be used for her husband, who must travel through neighborhoods in San Juan that are infested with crack dealers.

"I think safeguarding his safety doesn't necessarily violate his privacy," she wrote. "And if I am made to choose between keeping him safe versus keeping him private, I'd rather keep him safe and then change private data such as credit cards, bank accounts, etc., after."

Safety has been a primary driver in some U.S. applications as well. An Arizona company called Technology Systems International, for example, says it has improved security in prisons with an RFID-like system for inmates and guards. The company's products came out in 2001 and are based on technology licensed from Motorola, which created it for the U.S. military to find gear lost in battle.

TSI's wristbands for inmates transmit signals every two seconds to a battery of antennas mounted in the prison facility. By examining the time the signal is received by each antenna, a computer can determine the exact location of each prisoner at any given time and can reconstruct prisoners' movements later, if necessary to investigate their actions.

Since the technology was installed at participating prisons, violence is down up to 60 percent in some facilities, said TSI President Greg Oester, who says the wristbands are designed for the "uncooperative user." TSI, a division of security company Alanco Technologies, has installed the system in four prisons and will add a fifth soon.

"Inmates know they are being monitored and know they will get caught. The word spreads very quickly," Oester said. "It increases the safety in facilities."

In a California prison that uses the TSI technology, an inmate confessed to stabbing another prisoner 20 minutes after authorities showed him data from his radio transmitter that placed him in the victim's cell at the time of the stabbing, Oester said. A women's prison in the state has begun a pilot program to test whether the technology prevents sexual assaults.

Conversely, at an Illinois prison, Oester said, convicts have pointed to this sort of data as a way to prove that they weren't involved in prison incidents. Guards have similar tags, embedded in pagers rather than wristbands, which set off an alarm if they are removed or tampered with.

Tagging hospital patients...and alumni? Beyond law enforcement, the technology is drawing interest from a variety of industries that have pressing security needs. Companies that operate highly sensitive facilities, such as nuclear power plants, are looking at TSI's technology.

Hospitals in Europe and the United States are also experimenting with inserting tags in ID bracelets. The Jacobi Medical Center in New York, along with Siemens Business Services, has launched a pilot program that will outfit more than 200 patients with radio bracelets.

This technology is designed to enable various health care professionals to obtain patient information such as X-rays and medical histories from a database securely and more quickly. The system will also use antennas to track individuals as they walk about the hospital and send alerts if a patient begins to collapse. Other pilot systems are being tested specifically to monitor patients with Alzheimer's disease.

As such tagging systems become more widely known, some industries that hadn't been expected to use the technology are considering innovative applications of it. A South Carolina firearms maker, FN Manufacturing, is evaluating the technology for use in "smart guns" equipped with grip sensors that would allow only their owners to use them.

In a less violent but practical application, Ray Hogan of Princeton University's alumni association has contemplated distributing RFID bracelets among meeting attendees to track attendance at events that have multiple components. The technology would let organizers see which programs attendees find most valuable by virtue of how long they stay. Like others, however, Hogan says privacy issues may well keep the idea from becoming a reality.

When such technologies are employed, they can be even more effective if implanted in the body. Supporters and critics both say RFID tags under the skin would invariably increase the volume and quality of personal data, with the benefit of, at the very least, reducing the margin of error for misidentification in the event of a disaster.

The problem, detractors say, is that the vast quantities of accumulated data would be vulnerable to theft and abuse. They cite historical practices of retail establishments, which for years have listened in on customer conversations and viewed consumer behavior on remote cameras to improve sales. Supermarkets routinely collect data about individual shoppers' purchases and buying habits through "loyalty programs," along with credit card and electronic banking transactions.

Even random individuals could spy on those with tags, because today's RFID technologies do not yet have the processing power to encrypt information. "I don't see how you can get enough power into those things" to encrypt data, said Whitfield Diffie, a fellow and security expert at Sun Microsystems.

Some consumers have described scenarios in which a hacker could extract a person's identification number with an RFID reader, create a chip with the same number and then impersonate them. But even if such chip forgery were possible, alerts would probably be sounded as soon as a system detected that the same person was in two different places at once.

Still, implanting RFID chips could vastly increase the potential for police surveillance of ordinary citizens. Conceivably, every wall socket could become an RFID reader that feeds into a government database.

Critics contend that if tagging gets out of control, the day will eventually come when the cops will be able to trace junk thrown in a public trash can back to the person who tossed it.

"Do you want the people in power to have that much power?" Albrecht asked rhetorically. "The infrastructure obstacle has been overcome. It is called electricity and the Internet."

http://www.crystalinks.com/tracking.html

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"...and dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"
-Linda Goodman

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SunChild
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posted October 07, 2005 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FYI:
http://www.av1611.org/666/whatis.html
http://www.jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/signs2.html
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"...and dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"
-Linda Goodman

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SunChild
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posted October 07, 2005 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since being enlightened about this by my partner 5 years ago and posting it here orginally I've seen how the awareness has grown, even around my neighborhood thanks to an old homeless man who wears a sign with these warnings. No one believed my partner back in the 80s.
Now the warnings are everywhere.

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"...and dreams, don't ever forget, are the first step in manifesting wishes into reality"
-Linda Goodman

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Hedgewitch
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posted October 07, 2005 01:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I always am wary of AID programs for the 3rd world. It strikes me the only aid they need is to realise how rich and free they already are.

oh yes.....

maklhouf, sometimes i really like what you say.

thank you for saying it so well.

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maklhouf
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posted October 07, 2005 08:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's what people normally do with their electronic tag:


  • Cover with tinfoil
  • Apply heat from hairdryer
  • Remove tag
  • Put on cat

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lotusheartone
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posted October 07, 2005 09:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hehe

micro chips
loose lips
sink ships

it's all changing
before our EYES
look to the sky

that where the answers lie

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SunChild
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posted November 08, 2005 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FYI
http://www.freewebs.com/666themarkofthebeast/


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maklhouf
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posted April 17, 2006 08:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the trading issue. I have long been unhappy with the idea of Ebay, except as fun. The point is to trade with cash and Paypal etc. do not provide a solution to this. I've decided that, at present, the classifieds at Myspace, provide the best trading area. You can have your shop, and make your individual arrangement with your buyer.

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And I will give thee the treasures of darkness
Isiah 45:3

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Randall
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posted April 23, 2006 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How does that work with MySpace? How do you create a shop?

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

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maklhouf
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posted April 24, 2006 09:52 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Join Myspace and go to classified. Place your ad. It can be just like a page in Ebay if you make it that way.

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And I will give thee the treasures of darkness
Isiah 45:3

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maklhouf
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posted August 17, 2006 08:34 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Having read Salome's excellent thread here... http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002134.html, I have put my mind to the question of, how are people controlled even though they have no microchip implant in their body? There are lots of answers to this, but I caught something in passing: an aside by UK talk host James Whale in his last interview with David Icke. He mentioned an earlier guest who thought the govt. controls us by means of the fillings in our teeth. They laughed at this but I think there is truth in it. Not just fillings, but most of us already have an implant in our body, for health or cosmetic purposes. So no new implant needs to be introduced. They can simply take over what ever implant (a breast implant for instance) that is there already.

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And I will give thee the treasures of darkness
Isiah 45:3

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maklhouf
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posted July 30, 2007 01:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good news? http://rinf.com/alt-news/contributions/mick-meaney/police-report-face-recognition-cctv-unreliable/790/

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The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner;
Matthew 21:42

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fayte.m
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posted July 30, 2007 01:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow!
Shades of
Johnny Mnemonic and Max Headroom!

------------------
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

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SunChild
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posted January 30, 2009 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/735519/humans-will-be-implanted-with-microchips

Humans 'will be implanted with microchips'

14:00 AEST Fri Jan 30 2009
19 hours 20 minutes ago
By Josephine Asher, ninemsn

All Australians could be implanted with microchips for tracking and identification within the next two or three generations, a prominent academic says.

Michael G Michael from the University of Wollongong's School of Information Systems and Technology, has coined the term "uberveillance" to describe the emerging trend of all-encompassing surveillance.

"Uberveillance is not on the outside looking down, but on the inside looking out through a microchip that is embedded in our bodies," Dr Michael told ninemsn.

Microchips are commonly implanted into animals to reveal identification details when scanned and similar devices have been used with Alzheimers patients.

US company VeriChip is already using implantable microchips, which store a 16-digit unique identification number, on humans for medical purposes.

"Our focus is on high-risk patients, and our product's ability to identify them and their medical records in an emergency," spokesperson Allison Tomek said.

"We do not know when or if someone will develop an implantable microchip with GPS technology, but it is not an application we are pursuing."

Another form of uberveillance is the use of bracelets worn by dangerous prisoners which use global positioning systems to pinpoint their movements.

But Dr Michael said the technology behind uberveillance would eventually lead to a black box small enough to fit on a tiny microchip and implanted in our bodies.

This could also allow someone to be located in an emergency or for the identification of corpses after a large scale disaster or terrorist attack.

"This black box will then be a witness to our actual movements, words — perhaps even our thoughts —-and play a similar role to the black box placed in an aircraft," he said.

He also predicted that microchip implants and their infrastructure could eliminate the need for e-passports, e-tags, and secure ID cards.

"Microchipping I think will eventually become compulsory in the context of identification within the frame of national security," he said.

Although uberveillance was only in its early phases, Dr Michael's wife, Katina Michael — a senior lecturer from UOW's School of Information Systems and Technology — said the ability to track and identify any individual was already possible.

"Anyone with a mobile phone can be tracked to 15m now," she said, pointing out that most mobile phone handsets now contained GPS receivers and radio frequency identification (RFID) readers.

"The worst scenario is the absolute loss of human rights," she said.

Wisconsin, North Dakota and four other states in the US have already outlawed the use of enforced microchipping.

"Australia hasn't got specific regulations addressing these applications," she said.

"We need to address the potential for misuse by amending privacy laws to ensure personal data protection."

Uberveillance has been nominated for Macquarie Dictionary's Word of the Year 2008.

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katatonic
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posted January 30, 2009 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well you won't get me putting a chip anywhere, in my car, my cat, my kid or my hand. i know there will probably be people who can be scared into this but honestly what bs? i'm sorry but if you let them convince you you are helpless you are in for it! i thoroughly believe the terrorism scam they are running on us now is just that, a scam.

in 1983 when my daughter was born there was a rash of stories in the news (UK) about babies who had been swapped in the hospital/nursery for other people's babes...at THAT time the microchip was already being suggested to protect your children from this evil possibility. when i say a rash of stories i don't mean it happened many times, but there was a wave of scaremongering publicity around what turned out to be a couple of women's CLAIMS. i don't even know if they turned out to be real cases..

i do not know really what we can do about it especially since i agree with 26t that what you resist persists/if you struggle it gets tighter/ what you fear you bring upon you. but i do know i will have to be unconscious before they can put one on me or mine!! and that i will eat garbage before i go to a store that insists i have a chip in me...

however i have been learning to live on very little for years and i do believe that should everything break down or i have to head for the hills, i will survive. and if not i hope i come back into a society where newborns are not chipped!!

26t i also practiced your method of birth control...it worked for 9 years straight! however when one night my child's father said something that made me think "what a good father he would make..." i got pregnant within 1 month. then, having done it once, proceeded to have NO control over it at all!!

my only suggestions are: get to know your neighbours, because "they" may shut down the internet and telecommunications entirely if people display enough backbone.

it would not hurt to at least know some people who grow food of their own. even if the chip doesn't happen there's enough tampering with food going on to make THAT sensible.

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FistOfLegend
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posted January 30, 2009 09:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.....

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