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Author Topic:   The Jesus God
dafremen
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Posts: 1110
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posted March 10, 2006 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
The positive energy of this thread surprised me. I wasn't sure what to expect in these days of pack-mentality and the ram-rodding of opinions down one another's throats. It does a heart good to feel it.

Certainly juni, to have walked the Earth one must have been ON Earth. Just needed to tie it in, so the phrase "walked the Earth" was repeated at the end in order to clarify the connection.

Love to you all...

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Mannu
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posted March 12, 2006 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Daf, I hope you do not mind me contributing to the thread. If I am sabotaging it please let me know.

Cheers..

===================
Imagine that I am holding a picture of you (the reader). Imagine that I am spitting on it. Won't you be hurt? Come on be honest. Unless you are in a culture where spitting on someone is a good sign. A sign of friendship. Hehehe.... But you get the point. So if we get so offended how much God gets offended when you slap your brother on his face? Imagine how much happy God is when you feed a beggar on the street?
The point I am trying to make is God does not care a bit if you worship him or not, or if you worship another. The context of the old testament law may well have been for idolators at that time who would worship the statue of bulls. They never wud get over their ideals and God simply wanted to tell those people even if you may find me in stone, I am better off if you don't worship me in that form and waste both of our times. When the cosmos was created, there was a distinction between male and female energies. At the same time a distinction between merit and demerit. So some of the actions is classified by God as merit and some as demerit. Cosmos always unfolds in a way it wants. Or as I have often heard people say, "God has a plan for everyone."
Krishna the Hindu Lord once said "Whenever injustice increases in the world, I manifest myself on earth as human. And I do that age after age."

Ofcourse God does care about you and you have think objectively, if you want to hear his voice.


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TINK
Knowflake

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From: New England
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posted March 13, 2006 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
Nice post, mannu

And thank for mentioning Krishna.

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fayte.m
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From: ~out looking for Schrodinger's cat~
Registered: Mar 2005

posted March 13, 2006 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message

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salome
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posted March 14, 2006 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for salome     Edit/Delete Message
The Old Testament or the Hebrew Scriptures (also called the Hebrew Bible) constitutes the first major part of the Bible according to Christianity. It is usually divided into the categories of law, history, poetry (or wisdom books) and prophecy. All of these books were written before the birth of Jesus of Nazareth who is the subject of the subsequent Christian New Testament. The Bible of Jesus is the Old Testament, specifically according to the Gospel of Luke 24:44-45 "written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms ... the scriptures" (KJV).

...Contemporary Israeli archaeologists have now rejected much of the Deuteronomistic history of the Old Testament. Notably, archaeologists Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University and Neal Asher Silberman have written popular books detailing the now widespread consensus that many of the most well known Biblical stories are incompatible with the archaeology of the region. Among the Biblical events now adjudged to be largely, if not completely ahistorical include the patriarchal histories, the enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt, the Exodus, the sojourn of the Israelites in the Sinai Peninsula, the conquest of Cannan by Joshua and a united kingdom under David and Solomon. The very existence of David and Solomon is a matter of debate but the archaeology of the region shows that Judea, during the alleged time of David and Solomon, was little more than a small local chiefdom in the southern highlands which never controlled the much richer and more populated regions of the north.

...Lactantius, in the 3rd century, in his Divine Institutes, book 4, chapter 20 [3], wrote:

But all Scripture is divided into two Testaments. That which preceded the advent and passion of Christ - that is, the law and the prophets - is called the Old; but those things which were written after His resurrection are named the New Testament. The Jews make use of the Old, we of the New: but yet they are not discordant, for the New is the fulfilling of the Old, and in both there is the same testator, even Christ, who, having suffered death for us, made us heirs of His everlasting kingdom, the people of the Jews being deprived and disinherited. As the prophet Jeremiah testifies when he speaks such things: [Jer. 31:31-32] "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new testament to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for they continued not in my testament, and I disregarded them, saith the Lord." ... For that which He said above, that He would make a new testament to the house of Judah, shows that the old testament which was given by Moses was not perfect; but that that which was to be given by Christ would be complete.

The Vulgate translation, in the 5th century, used testamentum in 2nd Corinthians 3 [4]:

(6)Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter but in the spirit. For the letter killeth: but the spirit quickeneth. (Douay-Rheims)

(14)But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). (Douay-Rheims)

However, the more modern NRSV translates these verses from the Koine Greek as such:

(6)who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

(14)But their minds were hardened. Indeed, to this very day, when they hear the reading of the old covenant, that same veil is still there, since only in Christ is it set aside.

The term "Old Testament" is a translation of the Latin Vetus Testamentum, which translates the Greek I Palea Diathiki, meaning "The Old Covenant (or Testament)". Some believe Christians came to call this group of books the Old Testament because of a belief taught in the Epistle to the Hebrews and based on Jeremiah 31:31-34 that Jesus of Nazareth established a New Covenant or testament between God and mankind. This new covenant is said to be in contrast with the covenant made through Moses during the exodus (Hebrews 8:9; Jeremiah 31:32). Books written after Jesus established this new covenant or testament are thus called the books of the new covenant/testament, or simply the New Testament. The earlier books are then called the books of the Old Testament in contrast. This is due to a level of ambiguity concerning the translation of diatheke - which can be read as either testmant or covenant...

Christian use of the Old Testament

The relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament is not fully agreed upon among Christians. There is some debate among scholars over the issue of whether the New Testament applies to Jewish people, but there is very little debate over its applicability to Gentiles. Similarly, the degree to which the Old Testament and its laws applies to Christians is disputed. Very few Christians, for example, follow the dietary laws within the Old Testament, whereas most Christians believe that the Ten Commandments are applicable, with the possible exception of the Sabbath. The question of which Old Testament laws are applicable affects debates on a variety of issues, including homosexuality and the ordination of women to the priesthood. Either way - the vast majority of Christians agree that understanding the Old Testament is essential to understanding the New Testament, and that the contents of both are inspired by God.

Some historical groups such as Gnostics have gone so far as to assert that the God of the Old Testament is a different being from the God of the New Testament, often calling the Old Testament God the demiurge; of these, some like Marcion of Sinope, though technically not a gnostic, went further to say that the Old Testament should not be retained as part of the Christian Bible. Most Christian groups believe that this view is heresy.

...The New Testament contains many references to, and quotes from, the Old Testament, especially in relation to the fulfillment of prophecies (see Bible prophecy) concerning the promised messiah (Greek: Christ), whom Christians believe to be Jesus of Nazareth. In Christian theological views, this expectation, present fulfillment and eschatological fulfillment of the divine, eternal kingdom under the headship of Jesus of Nazareth are the thread running through both Testaments.

Supersessionists adhere to a doctrine that claims the replacement of the nation of Israel with the Christian Church since Christ. This is based upon a number of New Testament verses, one of which is Galatians 3:29, which says And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, (and) heirs according to the promise (English Standard Version). In practice, this means that while the Old Testament ceremonial and dietary laws are no longer applicable, the ethical and moral laws remain. Moreover, those who believe in Supersessionism also hold to the belief that specific Old Testament prophecies about Israel are fulfilled in both the person of Jesus of Nazareth and the church as God's people. Proponents of Dispensationalism and others disagree with this thesis. For example, it is not compatible with Orthodox Christianity or Roman Catholicism.

Another take on the matter is proposed by Covenant Theologians, who believe that the various covenants of the Bible are supersessive, and culminate in the covenant made in the blood of Jesus of Nazareth, but who claim that Israel has always served as a type (or symbol) of the national church, and who assume a pattern of continuity between the covenants unless a discontinuity is specifically introduced by the covenant-maker (such as the discontinuity between dietary and social proscriptions)...

Christian view of the Law

Traditional Christianity affirms that the laws or Torah of the Old Testament is the word of God, though some Christians deny that all of the laws of the Pentateuch apply directly to themselves as Christians. The New Testament indicates that Jesus Christ established a new covenent relationship between God and his people (Hebrews 8; Jeremiah 31:31-34) and this new covenant speaks of the law or Torah being written upon the heart. Some have interpreted Mark's statement, "thus he declared all foods clean" (Mark 7:19) to mean that Jesus taught that the pentateuchal food laws were no longer applicable to His followers. However there is a growing trend among Christians to return to following the Biblical guidelines for heathly living including the dietary regulations. The writer of Hebrews indicates that the sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood foreshadowed Jesus Christ's offering of himself as the sacrifice for sin on the Cross and many have interpreted this to mean that once the reality of Christ has come, the shadows of the ritual laws cease to be obligatory (Heb 8:5; 9:23-26; 10:1). On the other hand, the New Testament repeats and applies to Christians a number of Old Testament laws, including "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18; compare the Golden Rule), "Love the LORD your God with all your heart, soul and strength" (Deuteronomy 6:4, the Shema) as well as every commandment of the Decalogue or Ten Commandments (Exod 20:1-17). In fact, in Matthew 5:17, Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

While some Christians from time to time have deduced from statements about the law in the writings of the apostle Paul that Christians are under grace to the exclusion of all law (see antinomianism), this is not the usual viewpoint of Christians. An example of one more common approach is found in the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646) which divides the Mosaic laws into three categories: moral, civil, and ceremonial. In the view of the Westminster divines, only the moral law such as most of the Ten Commandments directly applies to Christians today. Others limit the application of the Mosaic laws to those commands repeated in the New Testament. In the 1970s and 1980s a movement known as Christian Reconstructionism (Theonomy) argued that the civil laws as well as the moral laws should be applied in today's society as part of establishing a modern, theocratic state. Others are content to grant that none of the Mosaic laws apply as such and that the penalties attached to the laws were limited to the particular historical and theological setting of the Old Testament, and yet still seek to find moral and religious principles applicable for today in all parts of the law...

In the late 20th century some Christian groups, primarily those found in or influenced by Messianic Judaism, have asserted that Torah laws should be followed by Christians. Due to a different understanding of Biblical passages such as those referenced above, dietary laws, seventh day Sabbath, and Biblical festival days are observed in some way within such segments of Christianity. As with Orthodox Judaism, capital punishment and sacrifice are not practiced because there are strict Biblical conditions on how these are to be practiced. Christians who attempt to follow Torah law do not do such works in order to achieve salvation, but rather because they believe is it a way of more fully obeying God (see Sermon on the Mount and Matthew 5:17).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

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