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Author Topic:   Any Christians out there?
MAKLHOUF
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posted February 06, 2015 07:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To my mind this quote, attributed to Jesus, is disturbing and threatening:
“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (John 12:25).
How does one interpret it from a Knowflake point of view.

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And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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mirage29
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posted February 06, 2015 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Maklhouf! ...

I was a deep student of the Bible way before I got into astrology (also studying this with depth). I have always LOVED that scripture you use in your signature here that quotes the book of Isaiah, 45:3 And I will give you the treasure of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places This quotation thrills me to the core, because I live, embody, and Know this in an experiential way, during the course of this lifetime.

The treasure of darkness is not scary-darkness, but is the happy reward that comes from 'discovery' and all other discoveries that come in turn from the vaults of pursuing those things (which makes for happiness).

I want to mention here too, that darkness can also mean the mortifying terrifying ordeals that come guaranteed as being a human in a bodylife. Some individuals and groups meet the darkest of individuals... Hopefully, for the masses of population, this would be vicariously so only by the sense of hearing or watching-- through television shows, interviews, films, documentaries and news programs, or by reading biographic books & novels.

But some of these individuals, (even here at LL), are persons who have lived it personally. I've been in counseling groups with women and men who have personally had tremendously dark experiences touch their own lives, abused by dark souls as their living-day drama. I have the deepest great admiration for the courage of these, who have survived and lived those ordeals. Some now live to uplift others by sharing their stories out loud (or within private gatherings). ... I wish them completeness in their fight for wholeness. They surely deserve to achieve full Healings, IN this lifetime. My Heart to these...

There are other kinds of darknesses that is the darkness of 'not-Known' Knowingness. The atmosphere is filled with Knowing-- direct knowing.

God surrounded us with a Universe that begs to be known, that stimulates inner curiosities of those souls born with inner-quests. They hunger and thirst for what lies beyond the distant horizons that are merely just seen. There are riches to be gained in following after those things envisioned from Eyes within the Heart. Deep calleth to deep. There's the DeepHeart that dwells in others and The Other, that abides in us and Us...


For me, Mak ? ... The scripture you posted from John 12, “He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (John 12:25), speaks towards lifting our eyes (immediate desire, longings or lusts) from the level of this-world's coarser materiality, towards a more lifted spiritual level. Looking higher than only our immediate needs (for self or family) and moving towards the wonders around us; those things that exist when we take the time to relax in our day or end of week, and begin to allow thoughts and appreciation to arise as we observe Nature, and become inspired. We 'lift' our eyes (to Nature) and get Lifted spiritually. This upLiftment is a part of growing and developing our Souls.

Jesus spent a lot of time with people who were in Nature's environment. He took time to speak to them in this rich language they probably didn't know they had inside of them. This allowed them to use their treasures within, whether or not they had real treasure in their bankbooks... Rich and the poor followed after him, to glean, to partake of his body of experience, and be scintillated by the life he exuded.


At some point, some people begin to awaken from out of a boredom that happens when we routine is constant, and begins to become dull and tiresome. When we only move towards fulfilling the need to acquire 'things'~~ things which are only temporal, that sate the flesh only, and give only-temporary pleasures (houses, lands, cars, daily groceries, clothing; people, mates, sex, addictions to drugs(etc))~~ we are robbed of ALL the inclusive things that be there all around us. We need refreshing, in those day-to-day routines of life, or from the pursuit of only the ambition to accrue more and more of 'only' those 'things'... Dissatisfaction fills the soul as it too needs Life Added to it.

There IS more to look forward to, in life, than only the acquisition of goods ~~ Now I want to say that goods are Good, too! They are the rewards here for being and working in materiality on earth. ~~ However positively, there are also Heavenly benefits to be ADDED to the goods that are here on the earth.... Part of good earthly-nutrition, (as we graduate and mature from only stockpiling up our goods), is the pursuing of something 'outside' our own wants and needs. We start to realize there are enjoyments, which take us into the realms of working and maturing in an etheric-realms (perceived). This can come through the arts or sciences, but deeper, beyond, and 'underneath' all that there's an operating spirit device generating all this-- called having "faith."

The faith-place inside, is like an 'inner-space space-holder' in us. I think in terms of like a television place, or like the 'replicator appliance' in Rodenberry's fantastic TV series StarTrek.

Faith is the place where we envision and mull and ask-inside for what-it-is we desire at that moment, for the now and the future... This inner-chamber is IN us.

Sometimes it's tripped-on with serendipity, and we discover this at some point more consciously--, at various stages of conscious awareness. We come to know that we 'each' have one inside, and that also we share a big space 'cosmically,' on group-layers, with other like-persons.

Faith becomes the Giant Receptor/Replicator place, where we in nonlocality form the tiny bones and structures around the ideas we conceive, the Ideals we hold, the wishes & wants in this lifetime; and futher, on the road of development, it's the gathering place where Higher wants & wishes formulate, where we move towards satisfying Higher needs of the soul and Soul (individual and collectively).

If the mortal mind is only seeing and interpreting the crispy-literal words, then I can see how these words in that scripture verse could have triggered emotions on a now-level for you, Maklhouf.

These are emotions that raise the feeling of having 'threats' made at innocent things in our lives... Losing, killing; things being ripped forcibly from our highest secure places, our humble-homes, our children and very life within us... like what happens in wars, nonsensical murders, cruel swarms of religious crusaders using VIOLENCE and physical psychological suffering in order to force their ideas and Ideals upon their prey--- the populous masses. This is indeed so heart-wrenching, and so not-understanding of the lives and cultures of the other Beings we are and live with... This is not Right or right. It's definitely not the correct way of being a cooperative win-win world.

"God" does NOT do that.... Religious-god, (the god of man's smaller-mind), uses that as an excuse for taking what does not belong to them. Some religions "use" Fear in order to control their prey. Even some religious leaders, with big hearts, are completely UNaware that they participate in this....
And the elders then turn and teach the upcoming new pastors how to replicate this kind of leashing of supremeControl over others 'in the Name' of the "real" MostHigh God.

Religious and nonreligious use God in vain, treat God as their 'scapegoat,' or hold God as guilty and blameworthy.... Yes, people are FRIGHTENED into 'being good' or else.... This is NOT godly, this is not true faith, but is a 'tool' for those who claim to be men of God, or men of Science, and they will use 'this graven image of god' as their stealthy tool of control---, a mass weapon (words.... to hurt, and be used in a misrepresented way UPON the masses of people of earth).


Everyone WANTS and DESERVES to Live. No one wants to live out their lives in the threat of danger or death. If these who corrupt God by their corrupt-religious views (whether consciously realizing that it be corrupt or not), can trigger words of alarm-- things like hating life, and eternal life, AS THOUGH they be subliminally saying 'I'm gonna kill you if you don't comply with this, and if *I* don't kill you, then you know *he (from Above, karma, Fates)* will do it for me (because I am authority), and you'll know and remember that IN the moment of 'suffering', because you are suffering BECAUSE you 'went against' what I'm saying to you... {which is BS mechanics in order to control and hold ransom the beautiful souls which inhabit our earth.... }

No... Jesus was like a Spiritual Midwife to these. And some people on earth are called to Be spiritual midwives. They help Awaken and connect people to realms that are beyond the everyday. They plug people back in. They re-connect a mislaid or broken switch of sorts, which then allows each individual to realize their own soul connection, on their own. There IS something beyond materiality. There IS a Good Life to be had and shared beyond mere mortal good life....


And so, when we 'lose' that notion that 'this is all there is' and there is nothing else there for me... When we embrace the Possibility that there exist 'realms' that are Beyond the mere realm of the everyday that we see with our 'human eye', THEN we could begin to activate our Spiritual Eyes. We can Behold ALL things that exist BOTH in the material & Eternal realms.

This is the heritage given us. In Heaven as ON the Earth. These DO and can Co-Exist.

All my Love to ALL!


I don't know if you've ever seen or handled what's called an Interlinear Bible? ... Warning! *LOL* .... It can be as addictive as getting into deep astrology. I don't have the physical space I need to splay out all my concordances, lexicons.... but if YOU do, you really might enjoy studying the meanings of the language used in scriptures. Interlinear Bible uses a 'system' that correlates words in numbering-labels, and where to find similar words in other places of scripture.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/12-25.htm

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Randall
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posted February 07, 2015 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's more of a riddle.

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Randall
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posted February 07, 2015 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Referring to the OP.

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mirage29
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posted February 07, 2015 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A riddle, with prize at the end of a-maze!

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Randall
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posted February 08, 2015 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quite!

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MAKLHOUF
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posted February 13, 2015 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mirage, thank you for your deep and thoughtful answer,I am going now to check out your link. The Bible is one of the greatest tools we have to help us understand ultimate matters. Many regard the gospel of John as the latest and least trustworthy of the gospels and I suspect the quote is an inauthentic one, designed to lure unquestioning disciples to suffer and die in the Roman amphitheatres.

We have to question everything and, as somebody who LOVES my life and does not want to lose it, I always shiver when I see that quote.

------------------
And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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MAKLHOUF
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posted February 28, 2015 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I now think that "hating one's life" may mean, "always wanting a better life than the one you have."

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And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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athenegoddess
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posted February 28, 2015 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for athenegoddess     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It means that if you want to give up your human life, you will receive a greater life from the I Am presence which is life eternal. But most people don't want to give up their human egos they want to remain asleep and not lose themselves and give it up and surrender to the greater law.

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Randall
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posted March 01, 2015 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good convo.

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mirage29
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posted March 01, 2015 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
{{Mak!}} and Athenegoddess... so profound! Yes, great convo.

Sometimes I see it as though we fall into cycles of sleep. We travel through a series of sleeps, in which it is possible to become more and more skilled at becoming 'lucid' and waking up, wanting MORE than 'just that'...

It's fun to feel all powerful in your routines, but sometimes that soul deep inside is Calling towards something more than just what you're experiencing in a mundane way.

I remember the last full time job I had in the early 1990s. It was thrilling in one sense because I felt powerful as I participated in the give-and-take of bids with a network of subcontractors in the eastern half of my country.

But after a little more than a year, even though I was brilliant at what I was doing, and genuinely loved getting up to go to work to see what other kinds of money-successes would come, there was simply no inner deep full in-fillment. In fact, I was glad I had just rearranged my office to switch things around and refresh the atmosphere. Had my face hidden. I was crying with pain inside-- fulfilled, yet not-so.

Do I give up the money, the prestige, the praises, in order to step-into whatever that 'is' which will prosper the soul?

What will we be willing sacrifice, in order to follow what Calls towards a life of Knowing that 'I Am' in a deeper way?

Lord, Give me the Courage... and make me a Willing Vessel

(music) Awake My Soul (Christ is Formed In Me) (Phillips, Craig & Dean, lyrics) [5:15] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-wYZLd_FIk

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Randall
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posted March 02, 2015 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Randall
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posted March 03, 2015 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That sounds like it was a good job.

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mirage29
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posted March 03, 2015 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
^ It was more than good one--, it was a great job, Randall. But it worked out to be a fabulous piece of timing that I left when I did. I heard later that the owner hadn't been payin' his taxes {oooo nooooo, not that?!!!}. (Turned out to be really unfortunate for the other employees).

(music) He's an On Time God (Dottie Peoples, gospel) [4:53] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRgvYgOJK6g

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juniperb
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posted March 15, 2015 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” (John 12:25).
How does one interpret it from a Knowflake point of view.

He who loves his life is the earthbound material life. He is full of the physical,material and ego.


He who hates his life is one who tames /rejects the earthbound ego. Crime, jealousy, hate, fear,all physical/emotional negativity earthly living instills in us.

He revers the Spiritual and attains to the highest.

Therefore, ego loses life in death and Spiritual gains eternal life.

Dear Mak, it is not a threat but a glorious promise.

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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MAKLHOUF
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posted March 19, 2015 06:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Ego is a very modern concept. I am not sure it can be used in terms of something written 2 thousand years ago. Christians often do this kind of acrobatic feat with time and concepts which only make sense in a certain time frame.

------------------
And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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juniperb
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posted March 19, 2015 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Mak, it is In Biblical times, it was demon or devil. Same thing but today known as "ego".

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Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Randall
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posted March 20, 2015 12:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ego existed before Freud.

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juniperb
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posted March 20, 2015 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes, it has always existed just not labled "ego" until modern times.
That trips people up.

------------------
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Rumi

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Randall
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posted March 21, 2015 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Agreed.

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mirage29
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posted March 28, 2015 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mirage29     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
juni! yes! perfect answer. You said it!

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Randall
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posted March 29, 2015 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are plaenty of historical references about ego before calling it that.

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Randall
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posted March 30, 2015 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some might equate it with pride.

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MAKLHOUF
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posted April 11, 2015 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
People also pride themselves on having suppressed their "ego". Ego is not a demon. It simply means "I". Who am I without an "I"?

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MAKLHOUF
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posted April 11, 2015 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MAKLHOUF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is no point in physical immortality without the ego. It is the "I" that survives.

------------------
And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places
Isaiah 45:3

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