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Author Topic:   Child molester to head daycare
Eleanore
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Posts: 2512
From: Japan
Registered: Aug 2003

posted March 24, 2004 12:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message
Doh! I typed off that first post in a jiffy ... "I don't know." was actually supposed to be something along the lines of "I don't know what's going on here but if this is true, etc." Sorry if I sounded like a total meanie. <sigh> I don't know where my head went to on this one, lol, my posts tend to be notoriously longer than this one and I should've noticed. I guess I should remember to ALWAYS re-read my posts before I submit them. Sorry again.

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted March 24, 2004 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
stop

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted March 24, 2004 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
go

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WychOfAvalon
Knowflake

Posts: 633
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 24, 2004 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WychOfAvalon     Edit/Delete Message
trillian - no need to apologize at all I am probably overly sensitive to the subject. My father sexually abused me as a child and although I have forgiven him... I certainly wouldn't leave my son alone in a room with him for any length of time. So I probably took the subject to heart.

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lalalinda
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Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted March 24, 2004 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
I don't know what you said half way through I got lost are you saying the disciples were evil? I know there is a God and he is good. As for your child molester Thanks alot. I know several children who were molested and whos lives will never be right, you had me scared. Its easy to look the other way and not be bothered by others problems especially childen who can't protect themselves I thought you were a child advocate. My mistake

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juniperb
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Posts: 6830
From: Blue Star Kachina
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posted March 24, 2004 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message
It is easy to take to heart. A very sad and painful subject for so many who have suffered at the hands of these abhorrent behaviors.

I think Daf may have choose the subjects parable/analogy to touch the heart, soul and open the eyes of his readers to his point.

Quite daring I admit, but the point well made in his choice of comparisons.

juniperb

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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dafremen
unregistered
posted March 24, 2004 05:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Let's clarify a few things:

As a man who was horribly abused as a child, it was never my intention to cause anyone to suffer by bringing their past nightmares back to haunt them. To any of you who have suffered past abuses, you have both my sympathy and my empathy. Please also accept my apologiesfor any flashbacks. I didn't feel that the story was any worse than some of those which reach our minds and hearts through the mass media.

The fact that it was a parable and not a news story should, in fact, make it somewhat more bearable.

You will find a fairly accurate account of the dark abusive years of my own childhood here:

Piece of Work

Secondly, it is not now, nor has it ever been my intention to discredit Christianity.

To illustrate, imagine that you have a friend who is a vegetarian.

One day, they walk into a restaurant, browse the menu, and order a bean burrito. They enjoy the taste of it so much, that they come back again and again, inviting all of their vegetarian (and non-vegetarian) friends to join them.

Some time afterward, you find out that the cook is preparing the beans with pork lard as per the recipe in use by the restaurant.

In this example, vegetarianism is the path to God, the bean burrito is Christianity and the restaurant is a particular variation of Christianity. The pork lard represents a doctrine which does NOT lie on the path to God.

One who was trying to discredit Christianity might start by stating that bean burritos are wrong to eat and bad for you...that a bean burrito somehow violates the tenants of vegetarianism. We know that this is not true.

Perhaps, if one were discrediting religion, one would state that vegetarianism itself is wrong, or subjects one to a diet too high in carbs or some such nonsense.

Instead, what I have attempted to point out here, is that the beans are tainted. The beans have not been condemned. The restaurant is not condemned...in fact not even the cook has been judged. (Only the facts as they appear in an account by his best friend have been presented.) Luke said Paul was a Christian Killer and so it is reasonable to assume that he killed Christians.

What if Paul thought that Christians were wrong and that it was his duty to subvert their "pagan" beliefs?

What if the cook's mother had taught him that beans cooked in pork lard are the best of beans and the only ones fit to be served to his customers? Wouldn't he perhaps wish to change the original recipe (which called for vegetable shortening) in order to improve the flavor of the beans?

Understand, that what you are reading here is NOT a condemnation of Christianity, the Church, or even Paul. It is simply FYI:

There is lard in the beans and you have now been informed of this fact. There is a cook(Paul) who had every motivation to place lard in those beans, because he didn't really like Christians.

What you have here, are men(Paul, Luke and John Mark) claiming that you can eat pork lard and still be a vegetarian..and so they wrote "pork lard" down on the recipe card.

If you feel that they are right, well then by all means...bon apetit. Otherwise, the choices are simple:

Learn where the beans aren't tainted and eat there...request that the cooks stop following the recipe which calls for pork lard. Or, probably safest and best of all....start cooking your beans(Christianity) at home...being careful, when reading the cookbook, to leave out the lard when you get to that point in the recipe.

As for you lovely lalalinda. I'm sorry that you were so frightened for the children. I mean that sincerely, although I get the feeling that the tone of your post had less to do with the children than it had to do with the seemingly deceitful nature of my post.

Understand that certain messages need to be heard, and should be delivered, but we live in a society of soundbites and shockwaves. We are overloaded with information and so ignore much of that which comes our way.

This message was important enough that I felt it needed to be delivered in an appropriately attention-drawing package.

The fact that you made it here and have left comments demonstrates that the technique was effective.

If I had titled the message "Christian Killer To Dictate Christian Policy", this would have become another tedious religious debate where Christians defend Paul while others nod or shake their heads.

In this way, a genuine reaction was garnered,and THEN the point could be made. It wouldn't have happened otherwise. Again, my apologies for your feelings of discomfort. Thanks for gracing this thread with your presence and for sharing your feelings and your concern for children. The vast majority of us are STILL children spiritually.

P.S. As always juni, you know so well of the land where my heart dwells.

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WychOfAvalon
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Posts: 633
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 24, 2004 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WychOfAvalon     Edit/Delete Message
hey daf!! I hope you don't think you've made ME upset or anything because that's not the case at all! I was just explaining myself a little.

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majenta
Knowflake

Posts: 92
From: Oz
Registered: Oct 2003

posted March 25, 2004 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for majenta     Edit/Delete Message
It is just too much over my head but I enjoy reading it anyway.

I am learning here.

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- Nothing can bring you peace but yourself - Emmerson

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted March 25, 2004 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
Ever hear of Polly Klaas? Steven Stiener? Thats what flashed through my mind and the horrible things that happened to them. That is my worst nightmare, (abuse is abuse even if they don't die). I can't imagine even dealing with it. I pray it never happens to mine. (or yours)
After the last Presidential Election (what a joke) I can just about imagine anything when it comes to power and money. A little coverup doesn't surprise me, so your story didn't seem that far-fetched.
What did surprise me is the way you chose to bring it to our attention. If I'm mad it isn't because you "tricked" me, I believed you. I took you literally, you scared me. If that ever really did happen I would hope for the courage to step in and do something, I thought thats where you were too. Sorry but I still don't get the point. Is this about a child molester, religion, the disciples, or vegetarean beans?
P.S. I read your "piece of work" you know how it made me feel.
all in all a great "piece of work"

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juniperb
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Posts: 6830
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 25, 2004 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message
lalalinda, your love and devotion to the children is deeply moving

The world needs to stand up and take a stand against the perpetraters and you are a wonderful advocate!

juniperb

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If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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trillian
Knowflake

Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 25, 2004 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, I have to agree that I found it a little condescending to 'trick' the Knowflakes with a parable represented as your personal truth.

To assume we couldn't comprehend or assimilate the information without treating us as children, telling us a little bedtime story.

Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but it is the way it appears.

Light and Love.

lalalinda

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TINK
Knowflake

Posts: 3831
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 25, 2004 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
I see were you two are coming from. But it's just daf's way, he likes mental chess. I like to play to sometimes and occasionally I suppose it can almost become too theoretical. (I'm guessing he's an air sign) But I think it is more than safe to say there were no harmful intentions.

tink

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proxieme
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 11:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I'm pretty sure he's a Libra w/ a Cancer Moon.

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juniperb
Knowflake

Posts: 6830
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 25, 2004 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message
This has become one of the most thought provoking strings. Mental chess is so intriguing, addictive and helps me seperate the wheat from the chaff.
Must be all the air, air, air here.

Or maybe it`s simply because both subjects are so close to my heart.

juniperb

------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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trillian
Knowflake

Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 25, 2004 11:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message
Oh, I'm sure you're right, Tink.

I'm all for mental chess and academic pursuits. But when playing chess fairly, you can view the entire board. You may try to anticipate the moves of your adversary in the game, but you can ultimately only react to what's on the board.

In any event, I don't think any intentional harm was in daf's mind, though he did obviously have an agenda. In this little game of chess, most of the pieces were hidden and no one could see the real board, because of the false one.

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dafremen
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 11:43 AM           Edit/Delete Message
lalalinda...for your sincere discomfort and pain, again, my apologies. There is no easy way to approach the subject of the conspiracy that subverted the early Chrstian movement without people becoming polarized.

In case you didn't notice, we were almost ALL against someone who had a history of doing harm to a particular group, being put in a position of authority over that group.

THAT was the point of this post. It is no more appropriate for a Christian Killer to become the primary source of Christian doctrine than it is for a child molester to head a daycare. It is absurd. Forgiveness is one thing...stupidity is another.

Thanks for the compliments on POW..it means alot.

Love,

daf

P.S. You've been tipping martinis with my astrologer again...haven't you proxie? (I'll have to speak with JW about his happy hour divulgences..)

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dafremen
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 11:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message
As for your comments trillian, I cannot COUNT the number of times that I could see the entire board, and was STILL snuck up on. That IS, after all...the nature of the game. No fair screaming foul, when the clues were there and 3 people were able to ascertain that it was a parable.

Besides, this wasn't so much mental chess as it was an attempt to share a feeling. The same feeling that many of you had when this story was first posted, is the feeling of indignation and horror that I felt when the details of Paul's betrayal came to light.

WHY one should be more horrified by a single incident affecting a single generation than by a betrayal which has affected every social strata on the face of the planet and over 50 generations of human beings including men, women AND children is beyond me.

The fact that anyone should be more shocked by a single terrifying incident with but material consequences over a racewide conspiracy whose devastating consequences have been spiritual is ALSO...beyond me.

In any event, I do feel something...sort of a growing..dislike(?)..emanating from your direction and I suppose it will have to be taken to task with lots of love, sunshine and chicken soup. Let me go get a can opener and draw the shades back a bit more...

Love,

daf

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trillian
Knowflake

Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 25, 2004 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for trillian     Edit/Delete Message
I'm horrified? Really? I had no idea!Not even sure what incident you refer to, that has me horrified. I don't think I expressed any horror, in any of my posts. In fact, I think reacted pretty pragmatically throughout. I was well aware from the beginning of this thread that your story wasn't literal.

I just prefer people to shoot straight, daf.

If anyone here 'hid the board' from you, and blind-sided you, I'm not aware of it.

I neither like nor dislike you, I don't know you. I am, however, strongly opposed to some of your opinions and the way you present them. It's just a difference of opinion, but Linda herself encouraged such opinionated debate. Truth is mutable, truth is in the eye of the beholder.

We are what we are here today, and how we got here is right. I don't believe the Universe makes mistakes. We might not like some of the things that come to pass, we might not agree with them, but they are what they are. People will see what they want to see.

Rather than be "taken to task" (and I'm not sure what you mean by that) I'll bow out of this discussion, since I seem to make you uncomfortable...and I'm a vegetarian, so I'll pass on the chicken soup.



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proxieme
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 12:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Naw, daf - it just stuck in my mind since my Dad's the same combo.

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dafremen
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 12:54 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Trillian,

I shot straight with everyone here. Straight from the hip and straight from the heart. The fact that you don't know me is perhaps the only thing that kept you from understanding my approach. It wasn't so much YOU that was being addressed as everyone standing behind you. (The missus gets frustrated as all get up when I start speaking in a voice loud enough for everyone in the store to hear...even though I appear to be addressing her. Must be her Cancer Sun/Pisces Moon..heheh..R-N-T I AWFUL?)

The hard thing to ascertain here, is whether I should change the way I am in order to accomodate what you seem to expect from strangers, or whether perhaps we sometimes expect more from our assumptions than reality is prepared to deliver. I am at this moment, what I am...not necessarily what I'm
expected to be and that suits me just fine.

As for the universe being what it is and playing out as it does:

It seems to me that what you're saying is that although you may not like the way this post was presented, it was not a mistake, but another of the universe's many wonderful manifestations. I believe that was a compliment.

Thank you...just glad to play my part in the unfolding of Creation.

By the way, you'll have to show me naked pictures of Minnie Pearl to make me uncomfortable. I'm pretty unflappable like that.


daf

P.S. Also vegan...so my chicken soup is faux-fu..

P.P.S. Proxie...tell the old rascal howdy hi from another Crab with scales...

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juniperb
Knowflake

Posts: 6830
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 25, 2004 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message
Daf and Trillian, I love you both so much and you each enrich my life in a very special way.... I`m so very thankful you are both who you are and that I`ve been blessed to k-now ya`s

juniperb

------------------
If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans. ~James Herriot

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TINK
Knowflake

Posts: 3831
From: New England
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 25, 2004 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
See what I mean about the chess games, trill? Now I ask you, how could we not love a mind like that?

tink

PS please add me to the list of those who adore you both

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted March 25, 2004 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
St.Paul was not the head of the catholic church, St.(Simon) Peter was. He was our first Pope. He wore the shoes of the fisherman. Jesus himself singled him out to lead the church. It was Christ power that (Peter) could sustain his brethern dispite his own personal weeknesses.
Juni God bless you and thanks for the kind words
Trillian what a deliciously wicked logical mind you have (very insightful) thank you
Daf I'm seeing Uranus strong in your chart.
If your not published and considering it try
Farfalla Press/McMillan & Parrish

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dafremen
unregistered
posted March 25, 2004 07:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Peter was chosen as the head of the newly formed Chruch in order to lend it credibility. No lesser figurehead would have done. A disciple of Christ was required to lend credibility to the newly formed church in the eyes of Christians. Not all were taken in by the ruse. In fact, most religious scholars agree that there would have BEEN no church for Peter to head, had it not been for Paul and his brilliant oratory.

Paul had a most unique situation that allowed him to preach the message of his strange mixture of Christianity, Hellenism and Mithraism with a great deal of force and conviction.

He was raised near Tarsus, Turkey(a busy center of Mithraic worship), and thus spoke Aremaic..the native language used by Christ. He also spoke and wrote fluent Greek, making him an attractive spokesmen to many Hellenists. Because he was OFFICALLY a Jew, he was not completely rejected by the Pharisees or the Saducees either.

Most importantly...Paul aka Saul was a Roman citizen and was therefore NOT able to be punished without first standing trial. This made his prosecution for heresy more difficult then it had been for other Christians who were NOT citizens of the Roman Empire for the most part and were forced to deny their faith or die.

As long as Paul did not openly defy the Roman Empire's authority, or speak against it's gods, silencing him would have been quite difficult.

If Peter had tried to do what Paul had done, he would have been summarily executed or forced to deny Christ and swear allegiance to the Roman Emperor. The fact that Peter lived to be an old man should tell us something about the reality of his actions and the truth of his "leadership." Peter was a yes man for Paul and the boys.

And for GOODNESS sake don't tell me that you find it difficult to believe that Peter would betray Christianity...a fourth time.

Love,

daf

P.S. If anyone would like to discuss the history of the early Christian church with me, perhaps this is a good thread? Or should we move it to another or even email? I assure you that I am not pulling conclusions from my nether regions..although the ego could probably use a good smacking around. It's still in the process of being put back in its place.

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