posted June 08, 2007 01:32 PM         

Can't buy into that & give that energy!!!!

DOOM & GLOOM is ALL thats left????????

WHAT THE HELL?????

Now thats something to get depressed about, if we all buy into that way thinking!!!!

No Hope!!!

posted June 08, 2007 01:40 PM         

Thats so Very Beautiful what you write here Cancerrg!!!

Thanks for sharing that with us!!!

So Connected!!!

Quote:

ah, well nothing about the orgasm , i am ok they i am . but yeah , given a chance i would love to experience what a woman goes through during childbirth .

see, whatever , we men say , we can never compare ourselves with woman in certain ways ( in ways that nature favoured her ) one of the ways is her childbirth giving ability .

what we as men know of it ?
the fact is , nothing !

WO " MEN "!!!!

posted June 08, 2007 09:48 PM         

there are countries which have a negative population growth rate, where people are encouraged to have babies.

just because fuel prices rise u r not going to suddenly stop driving your car. may be u drive it only as much as you need to.

and anyways my question addressed the biological choice that men have. which u totally skirted.

please stop telling us about the 'only intelligent and compassionate' way to lead our lives. there are thousands of rights and wrongs in this world, none of them universal.

cancerrg, i am a vegetarian so no biryani for me. (side note to HSC - tht's an intelligent and i guess 'compassionate' choice from my point of view, but i'd be a fool if i claimed that its the 'only' one).

posted June 08, 2007 10:22 PM         

ILWL,

There are children out there who need homes and loving families.
I think it is selfish to bring other children into the world,
when there are children "going to waste" right here.

Have you ever seen footage of a Russian orphanage? I saw a story on one once. There was this huge room, almost the size of an airplane hanger, full of cribs, rows and rows of cribs, and in the cribs there were all these babies, rocking back and forth, back a forth, and crying. They rock back and forth for the stimulation, because they almost never get held.

If a compassionate person with good sense wants a child, he/she will adopt for two very good reasons. First, the thought or image of children like these will be burned on his/her sensitive conscience. Second, the awareness of how our population is growing exponentially, and how our resources are decreasing at a relative rate will convince a reasonable person that having a child of one's own is not the responsible choice. He/she will recognize that, in a world as imperfect as ours, the only reason to have a child of one's own is a selfish and/or unconscious one.

You may think it is foolish or self-righteous of me to make such a definitive and unpopular claim, and reject other people's perspectives on this. But I see this as simple mathematics. I've checked my work, and I have no personal motive to confuse this issue for me. I'm confident that, in a few hundred years, my opinion on this will prevale as the popular one.

Solane,

I appreciate the value of positive thinking,
but the population problem is a very real and serious one.
Admitting it is not going to make it worse,
but sticking our heads in the sand,
and carrying on with business as usual definitely will.

Souls are rushing into this world every day. I am definitely not going to stop that influx, no matter how hard I campaign on this. I can only slow it down, and encourage people to try to value the souls that are already here. If people reached a point of heeding advice like this, there would be no need for the incarnation of crystal children and the like. I'm pretty sure the crystal children, when they reach maturity, will be voicing opinions just like the one you are rejecting now. If you really care about those souls, try to imagine how many of them are already incarnating into orphanages right now.

I said it is the only intelligent and compassionate choice, and this is absolutely true for the vast majority of us. There may be circumstances in which it is better to have a child of one's own rather than adopt, but they are exceedingly rare. If you are a Shakespeare or someone who is very highly evolved spiritually, you may do more good for the world by proliferating your genes. Other than that, I don't see it as a reasonable decision.

HSC

posted June 08, 2007 11:22 PM         

What do you do to contribute on these worldly issues yourself??? Besides Preach, read about it, pass of advice, pointing out all the negative in the world & others and how one should or could do it better. Sounds more like contamination, then one activity taking part in this world. STRONG JUDGEMENTS CALLS!!!! What do you do for your community, how do you contribute????

Please don't try to pass me or this off with more of your advice & seaching facts!!!

HOW DO YOU CONTRIBUTE to the VAST MAJORITY OF US ?????

posted June 08, 2007 11:36 PM         

Your tone is very aggressive and upsetting to me.

I must decline to respond to you at this time.

Please, take care.

posted June 08, 2007 11:42 PM         

quote:

---

ILWL,

There are children out there who need homes and loving families.
I think it is selfish to bring other children into the world,
when there are children "going to waste" right here.

---

I am well aware of that. You forget that I come from a very poor country. *edited to add* Henceforth please DO NOT adopt this preachy tone to me. Hearts or no hearts, this won't go down well with me

quote:

---

Have you ever seen footage of a Russian orphanage? I saw a story on one once. There was this huge room, almost the size of an airplane hanger, full of cribs, rows and rows of cribs, and in the cribs there were all these babies, rocking back and forth, back a forth, and crying. They rock back and forth for the stimulation, because they almost never get held.

---

Once again, I am well aware of such facts of life. And btw, the orphanage is more a product or poverty than over population. Ever seen such an orphanage in US? For your kind information I might end up adopting a child myself. What I resent is you stating that it is the 'only' solution to the problem. Indeed, I am not sure there even is a problem, or as serious as it is made out to be.

Please do NOT assume that others here are inconsiderate fools.

posted June 08, 2007 11:43 PM         

Does everyone think I type with razor wires on my fingers?

I give up, why bother spending time on a site that misconstrues everything, I guess I've been away too long, no one knows me anymore.

HSC.. I don't know why this turned into a political thing, at least as far as what I said..
I was tongue and cheek.

if the chicks are going to have babies stretching their vaginas, well how about some restitution in the form of orgasms when that other thing isn't happening.
I was 'justifying' your need for justification.
How that turned into you saying i chose to give birth is beyond sense....
as a woman, whether it is irresponsible of me to bring a child into this world is absolutely ludicrous and avoids biology, and steers you right into a semantics fight.

And I might add, as a woman who has just been pregnant and given birth and is currently nursing and loving her baby, my cheeks are 'kindly' enflamed by your insensitive remarks.
My child and all my children are meant to be here. How DARE you imply otherwise.
I can't wait until you decide to see that your philosipher's hat will fit you differently in ten years.
I promise you your mind will change if you plant your seed in not the mind, but the body....

posted June 08, 2007 11:53 PM         

I am glad you spoke up. I was quite incensed too.

posted June 08, 2007 11:53 PM         

quote:

---

hahahah...
didn't you like it ? ever tried it or what ?
i think it would be a fine combination .

reminding of the biryani , last sunday i went to old city (of delhi) and had changezi chicken and biryani .
amzing ! never had anything as such .

---

Nahh its like this:

biryani=yummy
beer=yuck

the taste of biryani + beer=attrocious

I don't know, maybe my distaste for beer is a "female thing"?

But yeah, we have our own variation of Biryani in East Africa (another contribution of the pre-colonial days with the Asian traders). I know along coastal areas its even done with shrimp (yummy).

ILWL, isn't there a vegettarian variation of the dish? I swear I tried one a long time ago.

posted June 09, 2007 12:20 AM         

Maybe thats Good that you don't respond right now, time to REFLECT!!!

What are you reflecting???? Reflective!!!

TAP!!! TAP !!! MY TONE AGGRESSIVE!!! TAP!!! TAP!! TAPPING ON SPEAKERS!!!! DO THESE THINGS HAVE VOLUME??? TONE????

You just side-stepped my questions of how you contribute to the vast & you don't address my questions, only MY TONE!!!

POINTING OUT what you think is negative about anothers again, ANOTHER'S TONE????

My tone is very calm & yours???

When you feel up to it, maybe you can tell us???

posted June 09, 2007 12:36 AM         

I think people's outrage is more at the idea that they're "selfish, "inconsiderate", or even "unintelligent" for choosing to have children. There may also be outrage at the idea that no more children deserve to be on this Earth, and they may also feel like they are being preached about on how to live their lives. That outrage I totally understand.

But I guess its easy for some people to endorse the idea of getting people to stop having kids when they come from a society that doesn't endorse the idea large families. But do you honestly think that places like Africa, Asia,Middle East, etc. where the cultures welcome having children are "unintelligent" or "selfish and inconsiderate" for being that way? Being from one of those cultures myself, that doesn't sit well with me despite the fact that I'm not sure I ever want children myself. I'm sure one would not like to be considered inconsiderate or dumb for not having children...so why kick the dog?

posted June 09, 2007 07:41 AM         

quote:

---

I dont necessarily see the survival of our species as a good thing.

There is no end of souls incarnating, here or anywhere.

---

quote:

---

The awareness of how our population is growing exponentially, and how our resources are decreasing at a relative rate will convince a reasonable person that having a child of one's own is not the responsible choice.

---

So.. in your opinion.. people are unintelligent if they impinge on the survival of a species - whose survival you said yourself, you don't see as a 'good' thing, necessarily..

posted June 09, 2007 10:38 AM         

:::and anyways my question addressed the biological choice that men have. which u totally skirted.

please stop telling us about the 'only intelligent and compassionate' way to lead our lives. there are thousands of rights and wrongs in this world, none of them universal.

:::

WHAT WAS THAT ? i didnt say anything as such ?

::::biryani=yummy
beer=yuck

the taste of biryani + beer=attrocious

I don't know, maybe my distaste for beer is a "female thing"?
::::

i dont know , even i have never tried it but i think this would be nice !
never tried it cos i dont drink .

:::There are children out there who need homes and loving families.
I think it is selfish to bring other children into the world,
when there are children "going to waste" right here.
:::

well , i understand your concern . i support but at the same time this in no way means the whole world should do the way you suggest .

actually , i am just trying to forsee the implications (positive as well the negatives )if all the orphaned are adopted .

think before you turn so considerate ......

posted June 09, 2007 10:50 AM         

please stop telling us about the 'only intelligent and compassionate' way to lead our lives. there are thousands of rights and wrongs in this world, none of them universal.
------------

posted June 09, 2007 11:43 AM         

quote:

---

HSC, its not about your opinion being popular or unpopular. it is about you telling others how to lead their lives.

---

I'm not telling you to do anything. You can do what every you like. I am just telling you what I've seen, and you are taking shots at the messenger. So be it. I understand that my beliefs may be challenging and unsettling to your established views, but, please, do not make the mistake of thinking that this challenge is a command to do as I say. I'm just providing the information. You are free to face it, ignore it, or deny it, as you see fit.

Let's say a person came to your door and he had just crashed his car and was bleeding from the head, and he passed out on your doorstep. Let's say you have no medical training, and neither do your neighbors. Would you agree that the compassionate thing to do would be to call an ambulence? Can you imagine an alternative choice which may be called "compassionate"? If I said to you, "the only compassionate thing to do is to call an ambulence", would you react by saying, "Don't tell me what to do!," and leave the man to die?

Let's say someone is trying to multiply 6 times 4, and they keep getting 18. They insist that they have every right to conclude that 6 times 4 equals 18. Would you agree or disagree that the only intelligent conclusion would be that 6 times 4 equals 24?

There are definite answers to questions.

Some things are just true.

This is one of them.

Admittedly, words like "selfish", "compassionate", and "intelligent" are relative. I realize that most people's ideas of what makes an intelligent and compassionate person are fairly loose. I realize that I am speaking to you from a much higher standard than most people can (or care to) envision or acknowledge. But, from that height, my words do make perfect sense.

Also, something people don't seem to understand about me: Just because I think a person, or a particular behavior, is selfish and ignorant or unintelligent does not mean that I bear them any ill will. On the contrary, I feel compassion, pity, and benevolence toward them. But I do have greater compassion for the lives that go unsaved on account of their being unfit to help.

You are, of course, free to take my hearts or leave them.
I assure you, they are sincere.

Coral Frequency,

That was smart of you to notice that, but, what I am objecting to is not so much the extinction of our species, which will be the end result of continued over-population, but, the suffering involved in that sort of slow death, and the suffering of motherless children in the world today. If we wish to self-destruct as a species there are far more painless ways to do it.

posted June 09, 2007 11:59 AM         

you didn't address me before......and when you did the first time, it was misconstrued as well.

does that mean, in your higher evolution, that you have given up sex?

because no matter our barriers to pregnancy in this century, it is always a risk you take when you make love.

posted June 09, 2007 12:35 PM         

quote:

---

i dont get your logic HSC .
are you talking of the world population , if thats so , earth can easily support a lot more people than it does today .

---

quote:

---

And btw, the orphanage is more a product or poverty than over population. Ever seen such an orphanage in US?

---

*edited to add*So in essence, the earth has no problem supporting the people already here sans enviromental issues, and the orphan problem in countries such as Russia, Romania are caused more by poverty than over-population; in Africa it is that too but also the AIDS crisis wiping out an entire generation of parents. Therefore it has very little to do with over-population; you have to consider other factors as well.

posted June 09, 2007 12:38 PM         

quote:

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as a woman, whether it is irresponsible of me to bring a child into this world is absolutely ludicrous and avoids biology, and steers you right into a semantics fight.

---

Let me see if I understand you here, pix. You are arguing that, because a woman has the biological ability to procreate, that proves that she ought to? Nature has also imbued you with the ability to take a **** in the middle of the public square. Is that proof that you are somehow meant to use this ability, regardless of the changing social circumstances?

quote:

---

And I might add, as a woman who has just been pregnant and given birth and is currently nursing and loving her baby, my cheeks are 'kindly' enflamed by your insensitive remarks.

---

I disagree that my words were inherently insensitive just because they touched a sore spot with you. You do have my sympathies. I'm sure your baby is wonderful, and no less wonderful than the millions of orphaned babies in the world today. Perhaps you can understand why my own cheeks might be inflamed for their sakes?

quote:

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My child and all my children are meant to be here. How DARE you imply otherwise.

---

I did not imply otherwise. Everything is meant to happen as it does. Your children were meant to be born, and you were meant to hear my words today, and, perhaps, partly as a consequence of hearing them, the next time you choose to be a mother (maybe in your next life, or a later one), you will be meant to adopt. Understand that the instinct you feel for your own, is not essentially different from the instinct I feel for millions of children in the world who I am not connected to in any personal way. I wish no harm to your loved ones. I do not believe they would be worse off, had they not incarnated. If anything, I am inclined to suspect that they would have been better off. Sorry, but these are my thoughts. They pop into my head on their own, and they make sense to me. I do not fabricate them with the intention of making anyone's cheeks red. However, if your children must incarnate, I'm glad they have a great mother like you to make it worthwhile.

quote:

---

I can't wait until you decide to see that your philosipher's hat will fit you differently in ten years.

---

That's a bold claim. I doubt my perspective will change in the way you suspect. Many high adepts abstain from bringing souls into incarnation, and instead, dedicate their lives to finding homes for souls already incarnated. Mother Teresa was one.

The difficulty with having a ninth house sun, Pix, is that I am receptive to information coming to me from a very high level, and the test of this life for me is largely to live up to the ideals I am able to envision. It is not easy. Perhaps you are right, and my ideas will change on this. But, if they do, it will be because Ihave failed in my mission; it will be because they were corrupted by personal motives, not because they evolved according to reason.

quote:

---

anyway... it was an entirely different thing that I said, i don't understand how you could use that as a platform for all the rest here.

---

Let me see if I understand this. You are suggesting that I am somehow obligated to speak on the matters you raise? That I cannot speak on the things that I associate with these matters? What are these boards, if not a platform to share our conflicting views, and, through dialogue with each other, attain greater levels of understanding?

quote:

---

ick.

---

Your exclaimation of disgust warms my heart, Pix

hsc

ps. No, I have not given up sex,
but nor have I perverted my understanding
in order to permit myself that luxury.
I know full well that it is a selfish pursuit.
I take full responsiblity for that choice.

posted June 09, 2007 12:38 PM         

You are screaming at me.

I do not have to answer your questions or prove myself to you, sorry. I appreciate that you wish to provoke me into a deeper awareness of my social responsibility. That was all I was trying to do for you. You do not have to prove to me how you are contributing, that is between you and your God. I am satisfied that you have heard my call. How you answer it is your own business.

I offended people here with my ideas. I cannot help that. You are offendin me on account of the negative spirit of your words. Please, understand, my intention was not to hurt, even if that is a temporary and necessary "evil" connected to challenging your beliefs.

"There is no coming to consciousness without pain."
- C.J. Jung

But it seems your intention is partly to spew your anger in capital letters, and accuse me of the very things you are doing yourself. But I do not blame you for pointing out what you see as my errors and shortcomings, even if you blame me for doing the same for you. You may think that pointing out ways in which we can improve is negative. I do not. I think that is precisely what most of the inspirational threads you start are doing for us, and I am grateful for them.

To say "yes" to what is good is easy, Solane.
To say "no" to what is corrupt is difficult.
But a true leader must learn to say "no",
and to tell people where they are lacking,
even if the backlash is violent,
as your words clearly are.

Everyone,

Please, listen to your words, everyone. I have done nothing wrong. I have only voiced a standard which is exceptionally high. It is natural that it would make your personal ego feel small in some ways. Do not identify with that part of yourself, but try instead to hear the wisdom in my words. If you are still determined to oppose my views, please, try to do so without screaming, making exclaimations of disgust, and attributing arrogant or meanspirited motives to me. Its true, there are many people in the world who would only be emboldened to speak as frankly as I do about unpopular matters by a mean spirit, and who would feel arrogant to see themselves as in possession of a higher point of view. I am not one of them. Please, make an effort to confront and discuss the issues I am raising, and try to let go of the desire to attack me personally.

Thank you.

HSC

posted June 09, 2007 02:23 PM         

HSC, when will you be adopting your first orphan?? I know it will probably take awhile to save up in excess of $10,000, so I was just curious if you have a goal date??

**edit** PS:

quote:

---

If you are a Shakespeare or someone who is very highly evolved spiritually, you may do more good for the world by proliferating your genes.

---