posted July 21, 2007 05:37 PM         

I've been involved in an extremely dysfunctional/beautiful "relationship"(really just a net pen pal)for almost eight years. It was one of the most unusual things that's ever happened to me.
But I have made some very important insights lately regarding my emotional
health and realize that it's time to stop "playing" the helpless victim and take responsability for this. And the role I play in it. Also the other party has to give it up too and admit how wrong they were.
I made a discovery yesterday that surprised me. I don't have to be a dysfunctional person at all if I don,t chose to be. Yesterday I held off coming to this site and even thinking about this person.I felt a great sense of peace. It was almost like a fog lifted and I felt like my old self . I was l ike "what the f23k am i doing ? " A moment of clarity or whatever you want top call it.
I felt the way I did before I met and got addicted to her. I want to be that person again. Of course the minute I came back here, slowly but surely the powerful emotional high I get from this person return. The bond i feel to this person makes heroin seem like water. No one has ever effected me this way and I'm not totally sure why.
There is tons of pluto energy between us. (Power, Sex, Obsession,Transformation)We have a venus/pluto conj by declinationsynastry. She has a venus/pluto conj by declination and I do too. With women this can result in seeing bonds to men as being a form of "ownership". I think a part of her feels like she owns me. Bu *** 's not true.. We don't "own" people. We're free agents ,no matter how hard we try to control them. WhenI "met" her pluto was just going into my eleventh house(placidus sys). Her Solar chart has pluto in the 5th right now. Both massive ,obsessive, powerful expereinces in the context of others.Could they be dysfunctional craziness indicators,yup. But there is also good stuff too. I refuse to write it all off as our craziness. Because I don't believe it's just that. too many beautiful feelings and odd coincidences and strongly happy times.We may not be good for each other,but there were honest attempts at friendship and unconditional love.
When Pluto hits Cap , she may lose her powerful attachment to all this.
But I'm getting off track,sorry. Anyway
She is doing some things I don't want her to do. But she refuses to stop. Pretty serious stuff. Since I can't reach her or bargain with her . I have to withdraw.
Why ? For my own sense of self respect and my right to be treated well.Also because what she's doing is wrong and I have to oppose her when she's wrong,just like I'd support her if I thought she was right. If I believed in her I'd defend her even if the whole world was against her. Bu tsince I think she;s in the worng i can't support or defend her. Even if it means losing her. I car emore about what's right than the high i get from her. This is the toughest addiction known to man. I have to fight this side of myself with all my strength to love up to the words I'm writing.
So here's my plan.I'm the type that needs a paln and ridgid structure to face something this tough..
THis week I'm going to write some fun posts and offer some things to the board. Then next saturday I'll stop posting here for good. After that I'll hang around looking at posts for a week in case there is anythingshe wants to say and doesn't feel she cab say directly via email
. I have also created an email for her to write me in private with. MY old one is not one I'm going to be using in the future. I n fact I'm going to let all my emials go. I might have one or two to buy a book on amazon ro something. But no more personal emails anymore. So I will keep that email open for one month and will check it once a week. If she wants to write me off the board and make her peace with me or anything else she can. I think I'm being pretty fair and when this is all over Saturn will be just about out of leo and she should be able to deal woth this easier.
If she ever wants to have me in her life again ,I have only three demands
1. Stop what your doing
2.Apologize for what you've done
3. Prove to me I can trust you again. (becuase I no longer do)
What I'd like, to say to her is this:
"If you don"t want to meet these conditions fine. But that's the price for having me in your life. If it doesn't mean enough to you to meet these requests then fine. We both win becuase I don't want some one in my life who doesn't respect me and doesn't value my firendship enoug to extend themselves. After what you've done I think I'm being very kind.
So that's my plan. I'm taking back my life. She has to realize that this the resluts of her actions and that the future depends on her choices. Should she choose not to act the way I've requested fine, but the price is you lose me. I will never compromise on this. And after one month from today will put this far in the past I had another friend years ago that i had to set limits with and it's been 13 years since we spoke Do I love Janice? Yes. But I'll most likely never talk to her.
I think my friend here knows how weak I am, it's time to show her now how strong I am.
I have no regrtets and take responsability for my choices and for what I was willing to put up with. It's just over. I'll never allow myself to be treated this way agin. I'm doing this primarily for mys elf but for her too. We both need balence. This is my attempt at it. And as she says"Never a Victim". I will do my best to never be again. I realize it's an identity I've cultivated and have owned. even liked. No more. There's no more time to play games with myself.
I think this is fairand i want her to have an opprotunity to say the things she wants or needs to say to me. becuase unless she choices to treat me in a certain way. She probably won't be able to communicate with me after a month.
If she wants to do th eright thing she'll have me back agaian. If not that's regretable,but I don't believe I'll ever be back in this type of situation again. Many times in the apst Iv'e tried to movce on. This time feels like it's finally here. Time will tell. But out I will not post anymore abou tthis here. If she wants to write me she can at partingfriends@lycos.com. If she doesn't want to that's fine. Bu tone month from today I won;t go back there again. MY yahoo email is one I'm not opening again. so that's gone.
If she writes at my email adress above. All I ask is that she makes it very clear it;s her or I won't respond. Please people here, don;'t write to me at this adress. She has to use our "sign" and I also want her to make reference to the first name she used when we first wrote in 1999. If she doesn't make herself known I won't write back.

Anyway this is the end of my directly mentioning this here. I've said all I need to.

posted July 22, 2007 07:03 AM         

putting up your email and all this.. you do not want it to end, you just want to put more logs in the fire..

posted July 24, 2007 07:17 PM         

You can very well do whatever you want...

I am not angry honey, just that plastering personal info and in great details on the boards is something I dont like... and regardless of my leo moon and mars in aries... it is still something cringing.

..... I have a serious thing for keeping close to the heart affairs strictly CLOSE to my heart.... not for the world to comment on it..... PLUTO In First House... control issues you know

posted July 24, 2007 10:32 PM         

I'm surprised. I thought you were at least a Borderline, Anti-Social, Histrionic!
Just kidding,lol.
But seriously,I really think it's a mistake to place too much faith in this kind of psychiatric descriptive typing.It has some merrit,don;t get me wrong. Like all statistical type of stuff. But Iread the DSM and the wiki article on it and some of the descriptions seem so contradictary as to be rediculous. I wouldn't let those hacks at my head,lol.
But the problem with our culture is that we all believe everything the "experts" say so blindly. No offense ,but don't take this sh**t so seriously. Don't get me wrong it has some merrit,but we are all so anxious to turn oursleves and our souls to the Doctors and experts. What are they really saying with this typing? They are collecting traits and lableing them. Is it useful? yes. Profound? No. You go into a doctors office and tell him your joints ache and they tell you you have arthritis. You ask,"What's that?". They say,"It means you have aching in your joints." Wow, deep,lol.
Now I'm not saying that doctors and experts don't have any value. They do ,but don;t give too much power over to them. I have Uranus opposing my Sun within one degree and am a hard core rebel at heart. I have huge distrust of experts and doctors etc.A lot of it is a power play on their part.
Are some psychological issues related to physiology ,yes. But not to the degree they say. It's economically motivated to a great degree. They hand out pills like candy. do they have a courage pill? Or a love pill? Or a forgiveness pill? I doubt it.
Remember one thing, the scientists and experts were all telling us a few hundred years ago that the world was flat. so they're not always right. Many of them are athiests too and have an agenda regarding sprituality. According to them native american shamans and yogi's are psychotics. Two things can look alike and not be.
So be careful about beliveing them too much. Take it for what it's worth and consider the source. When you label people the human being receeds and the label hides takes the place of seeing the person.We even runs this risk with astrology. (Which modern science has spit on by the way) And we both know that's stupid.
I like Freud because he was very sceptical of the medical community and was much more tied into the artists and creative people. In fact he didn't want doctors to be analysts becasue he thought they were the first to condemn something and then turn around and monopolize it when the bucks are there. Look at the history of psychoanalysis in america. It's exactly as he said. He even wrote a book in defense of non -mediacl analysts. He wanted the artists and poets with him and felt much more kinship to them then his fellow doctors. Intuition and creativty are the equal of left brain stuff and science. In some ways they are vastly superior.Scorpio's use intution ,no matter what they tell you, it's superior to the left brain stuff.
I likethe third wave too. Maslow and Rodgers. Who see people as human beings, not "patients". Patients? that sounds pretty warm and loving doesn;t it?
Honestly the psychiatric community has probably hurt more people than they've helped. But please dont; get me wrong many of them are good and helpful.
Anyway, I'll take Paul Simon's description of a "schizoid " personality any day over DSM.

I Am A Rock

A Winters day
In a deep and dark December,
I am alone,
Gazing from my window ,
To the street below,
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow,

I am a rock,
I am an island,

Ivroy walls,
A fortress steep and mighty,
that none may penetrate,
I have no need of friendship,
Friendship causes pain,
It's laughter and it's nothing i disdain,

I am a rock,
I am an island,

Don't talk of love,
I've heard the word before,
It's sleeping in my memory,
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that
have died,
If I never loved i neevr would have cried,
I am rock,
I am an island,

I have my books and my poetry to protect me,
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room,
safe within my womb,
I touch no one and no one touches me,
I am a rock,
I am an island,

For a rock feels no pain,
and an island never cries,

posted July 24, 2007 11:13 PM         

great posts...

i loved your thoughts on Freud and all the shamans and everything -- awesome.

i enjoy your intuitive style and insights....though some of your musings are quite mysterious....

perhaps you could do this professionally...like a story in a series or something....

personally, i'm just incredibly curious about all the mystery in your story here....

of course, i know it's private and all....

but still!!

posted July 25, 2007 01:39 AM         

1. you first talk of "letting the neurosis go" and pronounce that YOU are going to do it...

then suddenly get all against 'psychological terms' and proclaim that... "it is sh*t"... HOW CONVENIENT honey ..

..............
2. well perhaps I was stretching a bit too much with "paranoid" but, schizoid is quite close,,, ok, add border line narcisstic tendencies.. there you go.. If I dont know myself I dont think so UNLESS I am blindfolded or I chose to be,, huh admitting it imight be quite a problem... but even if I am afraid of claiming myself on blind boards, then it is quite a sorry state for me or any one else.

posted July 25, 2007 01:40 AM         

............
4. As for your personal situation, perhaps you might have noticed I did not comment on it, neither I have any intention to....... for there are a LOT of lacunae in your opening statement... like
wht is she doing that is killing you?
wht is this 'wrong' thing?
if you meant to just give her your email and to clarify action, why choose the boards, why not in person?
why are you looking for people's opinion or acceptance?
if it is about her and you, why not just the two of you?
If you have the courage to admitt and say it openly, then why cant you be honest completely? (half the truth is hardly a truth)

PS:: I guess people here know very well what is going on, knowing her and you for years (who ever she is)... but still as I dont,,, it is not my place to comment on the subject matter but the way I think you presented is a bit *****.

..........
5. I agree with your theory of 'treating the whole person not the symptoms'.. may be you would like to read a bit on latest research going around the world on it,, you can start by reading on CAM.

..........
6. aaaaaahhhh, you hate doctors,, and even if I want to I have to live 24/7 with a doctor.
(well that comment of yours hit the home perfectly )

posted July 25, 2007 01:53 AM         

everything we do is for a reason, and a season to know,
All Learning and Growing together..

posted July 25, 2007 02:45 AM         

we all need hearts....we all need ....

we're here to connect, are we not?...let us all reach out to each other in whatever way we can and shall....

i heart you.

posted July 26, 2007 10:38 PM         

Now Highly,

No offense but I didn't fullu understand all your points. Is that intension for effect? Or maybe it's jsut a communcation issue between us. Anyway I'll answer your points. Although I donlt know why you'd care about all this.

Point 1. First of all don't you think Neurosis is really part of our vernacular? It's really become part of the language of our culture and most people don't use it as a strictly medical term . Don't you think? So I don't think I was inconsistent using it. But I did use "self defeating behavior" and that is a medical term per se. So you got me. I was inconsistant. Ok, smarty pants you win there!
I never meant to go off on that tangent,I just got very emotional about all the typing and how we let this stuff define us.(I'm guilty of it too sometimes. I'm not above hypocracy!) Although,it's silly to take it too seriously I think,just like it's not wise to ignore it completely. But you did catch me and you made a good point.Your smart as a whip! I don't think it would be too good for my ego to debate you!LOL. But I'm sure it would be fun. I think your smarter than me, but I'd make fight for every inch in a discussion! LOL. It would've been fun to include in you in my marathon discussions with my friend Peter and I. We debate and talk about everyhting under the philisophical sun! I'm not sure I'd be able to always keep up with you and you'd probably give Pete a run for his money ! And he's super smart! As far as me going to do it all myself. I guess I was bragging a bit. A part of me loves to brag and another part of me hates it,lol. So there you go.But honestly , I think we do much of the healing ourselves. A therapist can help ,but we have to face our fears and grow our courage for ourselves! I think some of our problems are failures of courage. And who can really help us there ,but oursleves. I'm not commenting on ALL problems. Just mine. Mars issues. The need to grow courage. Some of us have a great deal of it, are born with it. I need to grow mine. I see much of my own issues as realted to the need to be braver as a person.But no matter how much courage we have we all have weak places ,places where fear wins.So we all have to have courage in the areas of our lives we lack it. Courage to stand up for oursleves. Courage to see the truth about ourselves. Courage to let go of the past. Courage to love. Therapists can help support us ,but in the end it comes down to us. Will we take that step through the fear or not. That's the eye of the needle for me. Now I'm only commenting on a small portion of the spectrum of human woes. But I think courage in all areas of our lives is so important. And can anyone give us that? I don;t think so . It is earned.

Point 2. Don't be so hard on yourself. Just amke steps to make it better. My psych professor told me that most college students when they read psych text books think they're this and that. "Oh ,no that sounds like me, I'm a schizophrnic." etc.Who knows what you are. Just face your fears and try to be honest with yourself. And if there's physiology involved fair enough. Meds may be very apporopriate. But not as a substitute for courage. That's my main point. And as far as my diagnosis.hmmmm. ever hear of projection? Maybe I was really commenting on me,lol. Do we see things in others that aren't in us?

Point 3. Sorry dear, but I a lot of this as projection.

"Who said you are upsetting them..." Who? You did. You said my post made you"cringe". You think I want all this attention? Honestly I think that's really you. After all you busted into this post with some pretty accusatory statements! How do you know what my motives are? Projection is my answer. I think that's a lot of what your doing with me. Cause so much of what you said did NOT resonate with me. I'm not looking for"hearts" or whatever your talking about.I find it kind of funny actually that you'd think that stuff was even on my mind. I am writing in a public forum for one reason only . The person i want to talk to WON'T co operate with me.If she did ,this post would never have happened . PERIOD. "Still I doubt if you want to take in what you are doing..". Oh wise one,Why don't you be kind enough to enlighten me as to what I'm "doing".

Point4. "as for your personal situation,perhaps you might have noticed I did not comment on it". What? What are you talking about ? Of course you commented on my situation. Don't you remember "you don't want it to end." and what about "there is no need for this act.". If that isn't commenting on my situation I'd like to know exactly what it is. And also I find it quite interesting that you have such a handle on my motivations. Unless, again they might be yours. Do you like putting on an "act"? "If you meant to give her your email and to clarify action,why choose the boards". I'll repeat myself. She refuses to cooperate with me. So I'm going to say what I need to say. "Half truth is hardly a truth". What the heck does that mean?

Point 5. Finally we agree on something.:-)

Point 6. I don;t hate doctors they are good at some things and not at others. I guess there is some resentment because of my past though. so you may have more of a point than I'd care to admit. A part of me doesn't like any authority figures,but i know that unwise.

Lastly you say"once again is it not "subjective"t all, I assure you"
Sorry I don't get this statement.

posted July 26, 2007 10:55 PM         

this woman you are talking about, now has my email address, because you did not disclose to me that she was in your emails, so, it is I who was treated unfairly, I don't want to get involved in your mess!

Have a nice evening!

posted July 26, 2007 11:24 PM         

I get your point.I'd rather not go into it in public.I'm sorry you see it as a "you vs. her" issue. It's much more complicated than you think.
I'm not mad at you by the way.I have nothing but good memories of you and the days when we shared ourselves with each other.It seems like years ago now . even though it was weeks. I'm sorry if I forced myself on you and dumped all my issues in your lap. I have to lear to be more guarded and also to realize that these things may not be things people always want to hear.

Sorry I've hurt you too.

posted July 26, 2007 11:29 PM         

I don't see it as me versus her, I told you I was in LOve with someone, so our relationship was one of friendship..and you betrayed that friendship, because you knew she was reading your mail, I feel you had no right, to involve me in this!