posted October 01, 2007 12:52 PM         

ok , i'll satrt with arrange marriage .
see , Nam (and to tell you something , i think you are really beautiful , bad -that you ain't in india )
as Dulce suggested (i guess she knows quite a bit different societies , good for you lady !) there is a difference between arranged marraige and forced marriage .

they both happen . thats a fact and i am denying it but with time the traditional marriage where the bride and groom weren't even asked of their suggestions are changing .
with time things change , and now the arrange marraige works in way where man and woman neet through families , keep in touch , try to find out similarities and if found suitable concede for it .

the catch is , this conservative dating (if you can call that ) doesn't give you as much time as the western dating system .

so as you pointed out , how do decide on the right person for you ?

what is the purpsoe of marriage beside adhering to the social norms .
finding your soul mate ? right !

your system for finding him /her is dating ? but the question is how many people do really find it ?
i agree logically its the best sytem available ? but then even my question , still remains , doesn't it ?

so the answer is , (what i believe is ) talking of soulmate - we rarely do find it .
take my eample , i have had extremly close relation(completly platonic) with three woman -two cancerians and one pisces - and i am currently interested in a virgo . but when i look back i seriously think , if i ever found a soulmate that was just one among the three or four (i dont really know much of the virgo lady) that was a cancerian lady .
so my point is even in love , you can't really know if the other one is really a soulmate .

again , other point , we dont always fall in love by our own . we sometime fall in love just by being with the person .
ok, think it this way , how do we come to to love our father and mother ?
the answer is just by being with them , just by the virtue of them being our parents , isn't it ?

thats how the human psychology works !

and that is the base for our arrange marriage system , i agree it has a lot of flaws but then every system has .

posted October 01, 2007 01:19 PM         

quote:

---

what is the purpsoe of marriage beside adhering to the social norms .
finding your soul mate ? right !

---

If whoever we get married are meant to be our soul mates, that is a bonus, and if they happen to be our twin flame - all the more better.

Otherwise, it is a mutual agreement - nothing else. I stand FOR marriage, but personally I would NEVER EVER indulge in arranged marriage fiasco ever again! (sorry for double or tripple superlatives..... )

For agreeing upon for arranged marriage, as a child we feel that we are making our family and parents happy by letting them to choose the mate - I dont believe in being unhappy lifelong just to make them happy. Their life is different from MY life. It is a natural progression that parents feel so close with their children, but what matters for the children MORE than the parents are their mate and children - that is how the logical process of natural existence works. As I have understood, I can never fulfil my mothers or fathers emotional needs, but they can fulfil mine. A child is always a subset of the parents not vice versa.

posted October 01, 2007 02:16 PM         

quote:

---

as Dulce suggested (i guess she knows quite a bit different societies , good for you lady !)

---

Of course I know about this silly....I come from a very collective culture too in case you have forgotten; ie. every conflab decision is a family decision( ). Todo para Familia, as they would say in Mozambique.

quote:

---

they both happen . thats a fact and i am denying it but with time the traditional marriage where the bride and groom weren't even asked of their suggestions are changing .
with time things change , and now the arrange marraige works in way where man and woman neet through families , keep in touch , try to find out similarities and if found suitable concede for it .

---

That's kinda what I was trying to explain in the first place, that the system is changing which is why one must differentiate it from a forced marriage.

quote:

---

what is the purpsoe of marriage beside adhering to the social norms .
finding your soul mate ? right !

---

I have to agree with Sattvic here, not everyone is married to their soulmates/twin souls/whatever. Sometimes, its not only for love but also because that person that is companionable for us (?) and we see ourselves settling down with them.

posted October 01, 2007 03:01 PM         

First of all, I can not thank you enough to share your beleives/feelings with us.(all of you in this thread.)

It goes to show you how we all think of "Love" differently.
I guess the question to ask would be:
"what is Love to you?" (between romantically envolved partners)

A question I have been using for the last year or so on people.

And, please, we are talking strictly a "couple's love", no parents/kids/family/the world.

Also, I want to say , I totally respect everyone's beleives and freewill to do whatever makes them happy, even if freewill means to respect traditions and go with the flow.That is still one's choice.

ok after all that,I must say:
Cancrrg~The purpose of marriage should only be because a couple want to spend the rest of their lifes together.That should be the only valid reason, once the kids grow up and leave who is left behind? only the two of you, just how you started!

Now, that is pretty much your whole life, shouldn't you be happy with that person?
In my culture the number one reason why people "walk away" from their marriages is beacuse they are not happy, we don't stay and suffer through it, well most don't.

I am not trying to change your mind or anything like that, I am just talking about my feelings and the reson why I would choose to get married, (which is nothing a piece of paper in the end)
Let's say is the only reason why I would form a partnership with someone, even if I am not married.

What happens if you get married and then the love of your life walks into your life, and now you are attached?

Also, is there loyalty with this marriages? or is it ok to have "free love" elsewhere?

That would change perspectives as well.

Now, one more question, can you name a girl right now, (just one) that you think: "if I can be with her I would be the happiest man alive?"

I gotta go....I would love to keep talking about this some other time

posted October 02, 2007 12:26 AM         

quote:

---

What about Romeo and Juliet ? Those morons should have listened to their parents...

---

Actually, yeah. They really should've....LOL.(Just Kidding)

But not to go way of topic or anything I would say that in real life: Romeo and Juliet would probably be over eachother in a year. They're union seemed to be based solely on passion,infatuation,etc. And obviously those aren't bad things but if that's the only foundation of the union then it will not be a stable or lasting one....nor is it really love IMO. Just the opinion of a realistic virgo mooner.

posted October 02, 2007 02:27 AM         

No, merely procreation........ licensed to procreate (creating a legal protection for everyone involved including offsprings):::

thats what i meant by adhering to social norms.
thats one part of it , the bigger part we need someone that we can share our life with ,fulfill the emotional needs .
and yeah if that turns out to be soulmate , the better .

:::For agreeing upon for arranged marriage, as a child we feel that we are making our family and parents happy by letting them to choose the mate :::

thats what the catch is , my friend .
i am searching for a girl in the very traditional ways but the ultimate decision will be completly mine .
for a bit of an information , i met a lady -she was cancerian too - who actually is a divorcee and year older to me .
my family might object but if i find things suitable , i will do what i feel .

thats arrange marriage with all the perks !

:::Of course I know about this silly....I come from a very collective culture too in case you have forgotten; ie. every conflab decision is a family decision( ). Todo para Familia, as they would say in Mozambique.

:::

:::what is the purpsoe of marriage beside adhering to the social norms .
finding your soul mate ? right !
--------------------------------------------

I have to agree with Sattvic here, not everyone is married to their soulmates/twin souls/whatever. Sometimes, its not only for love but also because that person that is companionable for us (?) and we see ourselves settling down with them
:::

i didn't say , everybody gets married to a soulmate , i said the intentions are to find a soulmate .
whether its a love or arranged marriage .

:::You know I've always believed if you date loads of people all the time, you're more likely to find your soulmate, I guess this is the more civilised way of doing it :::

exactly!

:::Now, that is pretty much your whole life, shouldn't you be happy with that person?
In my culture the number one reason why people "walk away" from their marriages is beacuse they are not happy, we don't stay and suffer through it, well most don't.:::

i remember , SUE G used to say this a lot of times , a marriage isn't only about finding the right person , its more about being the right person !

why people walk away , in your culture and not in ours has quite a few reasons .
its not that your culture is wrong or mine is right , its just that we have different systems with their own set of right and wrongs .
this is big debate , shall try to go into it , later .

marraige is a social institution and society makes a lot of difference . western socities are more of individualistic which ours is not .

sharing your intimate lfe experiences in long train journey with starnger isn't very uncommon in here.

so all this make your mental makeup which tells you to be the right person but only trying to be the right person .
adjust , thats the word .

posted October 02, 2007 02:43 AM         

i know , i know ! dont worry !

:::What happens if you get married and then the love of your life walks into your life, and now you are attached?

:::

this doesn't have an answer . and this will depend on individual to individual .

this is one question that can be asked from you too ?
what would you do if , you find your soulmate when you are already married to someone that you felt you were in love with ?

for the record , i dont think i would leave my partner if i evercome across such a situation , i would let her go ( i am assuming my wife is very much happy with the relation and very much in love with me ) i wouldn't betray her happiness for my happiness or for no mistake of hers .

and to tell you something, i have known a person that i knew was my soulmate - a cancerian again, but i let her go cos of practical reasons .
we never had any misunderstanding or something and she knows i am happy with her happiness .
we are still friends .

all this might sound coming straight from a mills and boon novel but believe alll this is life and it happens .

love makes it all happen . love not for oneself but for the other .

thats the basic philosphy behind arranged marriage .

posted October 02, 2007 06:19 AM         

"What about Romeo and Juliet ? Those morons should have listened to their parents..."

&

"Actually, yeah. They really should've....LOL.(Just Kidding)

But not to go way of topic or anything I would say that in real life: Romeo and Juliet would probably be over eachother in a year. They're union seemed to be based solely on passion,infatuation,etc. And obviously those aren't bad things but if that's the only foundation of the union then it will not be a stable or lasting one....nor is it really love IMO. Just the opinion of a realistic virgo mooner."

posted October 02, 2007 07:08 AM         

quote:

---

Nooo.... I have to disagree with both of you on this one! I know it sounds stupid, but... I'll never stop believeing in the fairytale!! I don't really like the romeo&juliet story much, but I do believe in soulmates, and no I do not like the realistic point of view even though it is, you know, realistic Says the romantic aquarian

---

I believe in soulmates too (venus in the 5th=closet romatic) but at the time I wrote that, Romeo and Juliet seemed more like highschool lovers than actual soulmates. But in higndsight maybe I'm wrong cause they did die for eachother. But then again....oh nevermind.

and BTW, Neptuneslove was being sarcastic and I was really just winding her up.

quote:

---

i didn't say , everybody gets married to a soulmate , i said the intentions are to find a soulmate .
whether its a love or arranged marriage .

---

You do have a point there, but I was just saying that you don't always find it whichever system you decide to use. But you do find a person you could see yourself spending the rest of your life with happy and content even with the Western system.

quote:

---

for the record , i dont think i would leave my partner if i evercome across such a situation , i would let her go ( i am assuming my wife is very much happy with the relation and very much in love with me ) i wouldn't betray her happiness for my happiness or for no mistake of hers .

---

posted October 02, 2007 09:03 AM         

I mean, first Romeo loves that chick roseyline(sp?) can't live without her, is deeply depressed cause she's vowed celibacy. It gets so bad that his parents try to get involved. Then *I think the same day* he meets Juliet and it's like Rosa-who?

So surely the same thing would have happened if he had married Juliet. He sounds like a slave to love if you ask me. And it's not just that, but why are her parents like "oh she's too young to marry...I'll ask her" and are all cool and w/e then overnight force her to marry some guy and the wedding's in less than 24 hours...right after her cousin's death.

I mean wtf??? A wedding the day after the murder of a family member? Sounds like a crappy soap opera

It's just one of MANY things that don't make sense in R&J

posted October 02, 2007 09:19 AM         

quote:

---

I mean, first Romeo loves that chick roseyline(sp?) can't live without her, is deeply depressed cause she's vowed celibacy. It gets so bad that his parents try to get involved. Then *I think the same day* he meets Juliet and it's like Rosa-who?

---

Yeah, definitely. That's one of the main reasons why I don't agree with Romeo and Juliet as being the ultimate soulmate couple. But being the closet romantic I am.....

posted October 02, 2007 05:27 PM         

Haha, well I'm in highschool so maybe that's where I've got my point of view lol. Young and clueless.

Shakespeare is my hero! No but seriously though, his works are great. My favourites are Macbeth and Much Ado About Nothing Much ado about nothing is somewhat urealistic maybe, but then again I suppose that's the whole point... But Macbeth... Macbeth's wife is so in control. So manipulative and ambitious and all. I love it!

posted October 06, 2007 02:37 AM         

quote:

---

yeah , imagine , shalespeare in hindi movies !
the witches in the movie become two corrupt policemen , infact the role has been played by two of the brilliant actors in india , om puri and naseeruddin shah .
infact all the actors in the movie are acclaimed ones and almost all have been favourites !
the movie is real treat !
macbeth in mumbai underworld !

---

So are the policemen fortune tellers on the side who make sketchy predictions like the witches do or what? How do they make they make the witches predictions fit their role (assuming that Maqbool wants to be Don)?

posted October 06, 2007 10:40 AM         

quote:

---

For agreeing upon for arranged marriage, as a child we feel that we are making our family and parents happy by letting them to choose the mate - I dont believe in being unhappy lifelong just to make them happy. Their life is different from MY life. It is a natural progression that parents feel so close with their children, but what matters for the children MORE than the parents are their mate and children - that is how the logical process of natural existence works. As I have understood, I can never fulfil my mothers or fathers emotional needs, but they can fulfil mine. A child is always a subset of the parents not vice versa.

---

You make perfect sense to me, Moonie. I agree with all you said and it's how I feel about it.

Cancerrg, However you find that one someone in your life, I wish you all the best and much happiness.

I also agree with some of the things that you said, cancerrg. Love does grow over time or it doesn't. It's like a flower, no? You have to tend it or it withers and dies. A marriage may begin with a lot of fire and passion but that gives way to a new form of love which gives way to a different form of love all the time. It's constantly changing and growing through the course of the relationship. But you constantly have to be tending to that love flower.