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Author Topic:   Falsely accused of spousal rape - 30 yrs in jail
venusdeindia
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From: mumbai,india
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posted January 18, 2009 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
htt p://townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=michigan_man_lingers_in_prison_on_questionable_rape_conviction&ns=PhyllisSchlafly&dt=02/06/2006&page=full&comments=true

quote:

William J. Hetherington has been incarcerated in Michigan prisons for more than 20 years for having sex with his wife Linda. In 1986, he became the first man in Genesee County convicted of the new Michigan crime called spousal rape.

Linda was not a battered wife; she testified at the trial that he had never beaten her in their 16 years of marriage. Hetherington was honorably discharged from the U.S. Air Force, received a National Defense Service Medal, and had no police record of any sort.

The sentencing guideline for this new offense was 12 months to 10 years. But, without showing cause, the judge sentenced him to 15 to 30 years (twice the time served by the average convicted rapist in Michigan). Twenty years later, despite an exemplary prison record, the parole board routinely refuses to parole him, giving as its sole reason "prisoner denies the offense."

Hetherington has always maintained his innocence. It was a he-said-she-said case during a custody battle; he said it was consensual sex, she said it was rape. The judge used Michigan's new Rape Shield Law to prohibit cross-examination of Linda.

No physical evidence of rape was produced at the trial. A pelvic examination of Linda at the hospital three hours after the alleged offense showed no evidence of injury or forced penetration. Apparently, what persuaded the jury to convict was the testimony of two police officers that they had observed tape marks on Linda's face.

The court-designated psychologist who examined Hetherington, Harold S. Sommerschield, concluded: "This is not a man who would force himself sexually or hostilely on another individual, as this would be foreign to his personality dynamics. ... his histrionic personality ... would substantiate his explanation of what has occurred in regards to the relationship with his ex-wife."

The rape charge was prosecuted simultaneously with the custody case, and the divorce court had frozen all Hetherington's assets so he had no money to hire a lawyer or make bond. Nevertheless, the criminal court ruled that he was not indigent and refused to provide him with a lawyer.{{ Even the terrorist who shot civilians in mumbai on 26/11 is being provided a free defence lawyer by our govt, hell even Saddam got a 12 lawyer team courtesy liberals }}


For 12 years, the court refused to provide Hetherington with a transcript of the trial. Without funds, he was unable to buy one, so he was effectively denied his right of appeal, and no appeal has ever been heard on the substance of this case.

At the sentencing, prosecutor Robert Weiss called Hetherington's alleged offense equivalent to "first-degree murder" and falsely accused him of beating Linda. Weiss was running for a judgeship. Observers sized up his prejudicial statements as grandstanding for support from feminists.

Linda walked away with custody of their three daughters, the marital home, and all marital assets. {{ Not bad for a rape victim }}


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venusdeindia
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posted January 18, 2009 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Ten years after Hetherington's conviction, a volunteer attorney, Jeff Feldman, using the Freedom of Information Act, obtained copies of five photographs taken of Linda by police at the alleged crime scene immediately after the alleged offense. The photographs were in a locker in a police garage. The prosecution had never disclosed them to the defense.

The photographs were then examined by a forensic photographer John Avlor in Miami using all modern techniques. Valor's four-page notarized report detailed his impressive expertise, including service as the lead forensic photographer in the trial of serial killer Ted Bundy.

Valor's sworn statement, dated Jan. 8, 1998, states that the pictures of Linda showed absolutely no scratches, tape marks or abnormalities of any kind, and that marks would have been clearly visible if there had been any. If a government witness gives false testimony a convicted prisoner should be entitled to a new trial. But Hetherington didn't get one.

Years later, a completely unsolicited letter was sent to the parole board by Melissa Anne Suchy, who had been employed by Linda as a baby sitter. Suchy's letter is hearsay but has the ring of authenticity.

Suchy wrote that Linda told her she made up the story about rape because she was then pregnant with the baby of her boyfriend. Linda said that her boyfriend pushed her to press rape charges, saying that she would have to "get rid of Hetherington or he wouldn't take care of the baby." {{ what a loverly, gentle ,motherly piece of garbage }}

Over the years, several pro bono lawyers and concerned citizens have tried to secure a pardon or a parole for Hetherington, but Michigan appears determined to make him serve 30 years because he won't admit guilt and because the bureaucracy won't admit it made a mistake. {{ stupid sides with stupid }}

Almost everyone who reads the record of what happened to William Hetherington concludes that he was unjustly accused, unjustly convicted, unjustly sentenced, unjustly denied his due process and appeal rights, unjustly denied a new trial based on physical evidence of inaccurate testimony by government witnesses, and unjustly denied parole.

A man's life has been sacrificed, and three children have been denied their father by malicious feminists who have lobbied for laws that punish spousal rape just like stranger rape and deny a man the right to cross-examine his accuser. They have created a judicial system where the woman must always be believed even though she has no evidence, one in which the man is always guilty.



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sunshine_lion
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posted January 18, 2009 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
against her will is against the law.

good rule of thumb is, if she say's no, do not force a woman to have sex or you will risk losing everything.

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amowls
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posted January 18, 2009 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls     Edit/Delete Message
This seems a little victim blamey to me.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 18, 2009 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
If he forced himself on her it's rape, whether or not he's her husband. Wrong is wrong, no means no.

Talk about communication issues.

Her reaction isn't for me to judge, but all I can say is those kids are going to have some serious issues, and it just plain reeks to me in general that the situation has gotten to such an atrocious level.


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venusdeindia
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posted January 19, 2009 12:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
against her will is against the law.
good rule of thumb is, if she say's no, do not force a woman to have sex or you will risk losing everything

ofcourse you are right, the problem is there is no way to prove me wrong if i say yes to sex now and retract it later saying i felt pressured.

an astounding 50 % of Rape accusations are FALSE

A lot of girls who get drunk and hook up wake up feeling conflicted about whether or not they were for it or against it.

The point is - making a law that tilts the power in favor of any one gender male or female is giving an amoral FEW an opportunity to exploit the other gender.

The false rape accusations of 50 % not only ruin the lives of falsely accused men and their families - they are a SLAP on the faces of women who do in fact go through the horrific ordeal of Rape.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 19, 2009 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I see what you're saying, Venus. Women do need to be more aware in general in that regard. Naturally, it's no excuse of what happens to them...but they do need to take responsibility of themselves.

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AcousticGod
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posted January 19, 2009 01:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
That 50% stat most likely isn't accurate as I already showed the first time she put it out in GU.

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koiflower
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posted January 19, 2009 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
Would that be moving threads from GU to Central for more exposure?

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sunshine_lion
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posted January 19, 2009 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
the fact and truth of the matter is most rapes go unreported. Spousal rape and date rape is largely unreported.

50 percent of rape accusations being false is simply not true.

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sunshine_lion
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posted January 19, 2009 07:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
the actual truth of the matter is in this article. it is very sad to me that individuals that blame the women actually have the opportunity to counsel the victims that actually do come forward. when they think they found a safe place they are facing at least in one area of the country disbelief and derision. i think rape and violence counselors should be required to undergo psychological testing to weed out counselors who feel violence is justified and rape victims are liars. that to me is such a shame.

AMERICAN RAPE STATISTICS
Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)

The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.)

SILENT VICTIMS :

One of the most startling aspects of sex crimes is how many go unreported. The most common reasons given by women for not reporting these crimes are the belief that it is a private or personal matter and the fear of reprisal from the assailant.

Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994)

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

In 1994-1995, only 251,560 rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials -- less than one in every three. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

An overwhelming majority of rape service agencies believe that public education about rape, and expanded counseling and advocacy services for rape victims, would be effective in increasing the willingness of victims to report rapes to the police. (Rape in America, 1992, National Victim Center with Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center.)

LIVING IN FEAR :

According to the U.S. Department of Justice: (All statistics are taken from: Violenceagainst Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

One of every four rapes take place in a public area or in a parking garage.

31% of female victims reported that the offender was a stranger.

68% of rapes occur between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

In 47% of rapes, the victim sustained injuries other than rape injuries.

75% of female rape victims require medical care after the attack.

NOT JUST A FAMILY MATTER :

Family violence and abuse are among the most prevalent forms of interpersonal violence against women and young children -- both boys and girls. The sexual abuse of a child should never be "just a family matter," but many children are afraid to report an incident to the police because the abusers are too often a family friend or relative.

Approximately one-third of all juvenile victims of sexual abuse cases are children younger than 6 years of age. (Violence and the Family, Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family, 1996.)

According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)

FACE OF AMERICA :

About 81% of rape victims are white; 18% are black; 1% are of other races. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

There were 71 forcible rapes per 100,000 females reported to United States law enforcement agencies in 1996. 2

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police.3

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

In a national survey 27.7% of college women reported a sexual experience since the age of fourteen that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape, and 7.7% of college men reported perpetrating aggressive behavior which met the legal definition of rape.5

The National Crime Victimization Survey indicates that for 1992-1993, 92% of rapes were committed by known assailants.1 About half of all rapes and sexual assaults against women are committed by friends and acquaintances, and 26% are by intimate partners.1

Risk factors for perpetrating sexual violence include: early sexual experience (both forced and voluntary),6 adherence by men to sex role stereotyping,7,8 negative attitudes of men towards women,6,9,,10,11,12, alcohol consumption,8,13 acceptance of rape myths by men.8,9,12,14,15

Non-forceful verbal resistance and lack of resistance are associated with rape completion.1,6

The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. This information, in conjunction with estimates based on the U.S. Census, suggest that there may be 32,101 annual rape-related pregnancies among American women over the age of 18.17

Non-genital physical injuries occur in approximately 40% of completed rape cases.18 As many as 3% of all rape cases have non-genital injuries requiring overnight hospitalization.19

Victims of rape often manifest long-term symptoms of chronic headaches,18,20fatigue20, sleep disturbance20, recurrent nausea,20 decreased appetite,21 eating disorders,22 menstrual pain,18 sexual dysfunction,23 and suicide attempts.21 In a longitudinal study, sexual assault was found to increase the odds of substance abuse by a factor of 2.5.24

Estimates of the occurrence of sexually transmitted diseases resulting from rape range from 3.6% to 30%.18,22 HIV transmission risk rate from rape is estimated at 1 in 500,22,25 although a few probable cases have been documented in Sweden and Great Britain. 26,27

Victims of marital or date rape are 11 times more likely to be clinically depressed, and 6 times more likely to experience social phobia than are non-victims. Psychological problems are still evident in cases as long as 15 years after the assault.28

Fatalities occur in about 0.1% of all rape cases.29,30

A study examining the use of health services over a five year period by female members of a health maintenance program found that the number of visits to physicians by rape victims increased 56% in the year following the crime, compared to a 2% utilization increase by non-victims.31

The National Public Services Research Institute estimates the lifetime cost for each rape with physical injuries which occurred in 1987 to be $60,000.32

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venusdeindia
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posted January 19, 2009 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
actaually the false rape statistic came upo during a study i attended, there are some close ones on the net, though it seems no one has ever tried to look into it systemnatically

quote:

http://www.anandaanswers.com/pages/naaFalse.html

ABSTRACT:

With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations. [False rape allegations are reported in similar numbers at college campuses; approximately 50% of rape charges are admitted to be false by the accuser.]

INTRODUCTION

[The author discusses the history of unfounded rape allegations, and how legitimate cases of rape were discounted until pressure from women’s groups caused them to be taken more seriously. He describes how the pendulum has now swung significantly the other way]

Currently, the two main identifiable adversaries involved in the false rape allegations controversy are the feminists and the police. The feminists are by far the most expressive and prominent on this issue. Some feminists take the position that the declaration of rape as false or unfounded largely means that the police do not believe the complainant; that is, the rape charges are real reflections of criminal assault, but the agents of the criminal justice system do not believe them (Brownmiller, 1975; Russell, 1984). Some feminists virtually deny the existence of false rape accusations and believe the concept itself constitutes discriminatory harassment toward women (see Grano, 1990). On the other hand, police are prone to say the reason for not believing some rape complainants resides in the fact that the rapes never occurred (Payton, 1967; Wilson, 1978; Jay, 1991). Medical Examiners lend support to this police position by emphasizing the ever-present possibility that rape complainants may be lying (Shill, 1969, 1971).

METHODS

This investigation is essentially a case study of one police agency in a small metropolitan area (population 70,000) in the Midwestern United States. This city was targeted for study because it offered an almost model laboratory for studying false rape allegations. First, its police agency is not inundated with serious felony cases and, therefore, has the freedom and the motivation to record and thoroughly pursue all rape complaints. In fact, agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. Second, the declaration of a false allegation follows a highly institutionalized procedure. The investigation of all rape complaints always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects. Additionally, for a declaration of false charge to be made, the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false. The police department will not declare a rape charge as false when the complainant, for whatever reason, fails to pursue the charge or cooperate on the case, regardless how much doubt the police may have regarding the validity of the charge.

In short, these cases are declared false only because the complainant admitted they are false. Furthermore, only one person is then empowered to enter into the records a formal declaration that the charge is false, the officer in charge of records. Last, it should be noted that this department does not confuse reported rape attempts with completed rapes. Thus, the rape complainants referred to in this paper are for completed forcible rapes only. The foregoing leaves us with a certain confidence that cases declared false by this police agency are indeed a reasonable- if not a minimal reflection of false rape allegations made to this agency, especially when one considers that a finding of false allegation is totally dependent upon the recantation of the rape charge.

We followed and investigated all false rape allegations from 1978 to 1987. A ranking police official notified us whenever a rape charge was declared false and provided us with the records of the case. In addition, the investigating officers provided any requested supplementary information so that we could be confident of the validity of the false rape allegation declarations.

FINDINGS

Regarding this study, 41% (45) of the total disposed rape cases (109) were officially declared false during this 9-year period, that is, by the complainant’s admission that no rape had occurred and the charge, therefore, was false. The incidence figure was variable from year to year and ranged from a low of 27% (3 out of 11 cases) to a high of 70% (7 out of 10 cases). The 9-year period suggests no trends, and no explanation has been made for the year-to-year fluctuation.

The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants’ own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture. Of course, we are not asserting that these functions are mutually exclusive or exhaustive; rather, these rape recantations focused on a single factor explanation. A possible objection to these recantations concerns their validity. Rae recantations could be the result of the complainants’ desire to avoid a ‘second assault at the hands of the police. Rather than proceed with the real charge of rape, the argument goes, these women withdrew their accusations to avoid the trauma of police investigation.

Several responses are possible to this type of criticism. First, with very few exceptions, these complainants were suspect at the time of the complaint or within a day or two after charging. These recantations did not follow prolonged periods of investigation and interrogation that would constitute anything approximating a second assault. Second, not one of the detectives believed that an incident of false recantation had occurred. They argued, rather convincingly, that in those cases where a suspect was identified and interrogated, the facts of the recantation dovetailed with the suspect’s own defense. Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation. Although we certainly do not deny the possibility of false recantations, no evidence supports such an interpretation for these cases.

RELATED FINDINGS

In addition to the foregoing, certain other findings and observations relevant to false allegations warrant comment. First, false allegations failed to include accusations of forced sexual acts other than penile-vaginal intercourse. Not one complainant mentions forced oral or anal sex. In contrast, these acts were included in approximately 25% of the rounded forcible rape complaints. Perhaps it was simply psychologically and socially more prudent for these women to minimize the humiliation of sexual victimization by not embroidering the event any more than necessary. This phenomenon has been observed previously (McDowell and Hibler, 1987).

One of the most haunting and serious implications of false rape allegations concerns the possibility of miscarried justice. We know that false convictions occur, but this study only tells us that these false accusers were weeded out during the very early stages of investigation. However encouraging this result may be, we cannot claim that false charging does not incur suffering for the accused. Merely to be a rape suspect, even for a day or two, translates into psychological and social trauma.

We may well be faced with the fact that the most efficient police departments report the higher incidence of false rape allegations. In view of these factors, perhaps the most prudent summary statement that is appropriate from these data is that false rape accusations are not uncommon. Since this effort is the first at a systematic, long-term, on-site investigation of false rape allegations from a single city, future studies in other cities, with comparable policies, must assess the representativeness of these findings.

ADDENDA

[The author talks about other studies of women on college campuses which show an approximately 50% rate of false rape reports, similar to the study above].

Quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge. Other reports from university police agencies support these findings (Jay, 1991). In both police agencies, the taking of the complaint and the follow-up investigation was the exclusive responsibility of a ranking female officer. Neither agency employed the polygraph and neither declared the complaint false without a recantation of the charge.


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venusdeindia
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posted January 19, 2009 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
quote:

The fictional Sherlock Holmes deduced that a dog owner was the criminal, because his dog had not barked and he was the only person who could have committed the crime without arousing his dog.

"Inspector Gregory: 'Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?'

"Holmes: 'To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.'

"'The dog did nothing in the night time.'

"'That was the curious incident,' remarked Sherlock Holmes."

From "The Adventure of Silver Blaze" by Arthur Conan Doyle

I wish to draw attention to each of the Duke Three having passed a polygraph test and their accuser (Crystal Gail Mangum) not having been polygraphed.

I find it "curious" that Durham County, North Carolina District Attorney Michael B. Nifong not only refused an offer to be polygraph tested made by the three co-captains of the 2006 Duke Men's Lacrosse Team, but apparently did not even ask Mr. Mangum to take a polygraph test (I doubt she volunteered).

From USA Today: "The FBI will give lie-detector tests to hundreds of state and local police officers assigned to terrorism task forces across the country as part of a new effort to battle espionage and unauthorized information leaks."

FBI Assistant Director Charles Phalen: "There is no more powerful tool in our tool bag" than polygraph tests.

Mr. Nifong has complained of a "wall of silence," but when team members volunteered to be polygraphed, it was Mr. Nifong who did the rebuffing.

Why?

Could it be that Mr. Nifong feared that Ms. Mangum, the accuser and an ex convict, would not pass, he thought he needed to be pursuing some white lacrosse players in order to win the Democrat primary last May and the case he planned to use to snatch electoral victory from the jaws of defeat would have collapsed much too soon?

Is it too much to expect that a person accusing another of kidnapping, rape and sexual assault pass a polygraph test BEFORE a prosecutor obtains an indictment?

Is it too much to expect that indictments that were hastily obtained and unwarranted under all the circumstances be dismissed UNLESS the person accusing others of kidnapping, rape and sexual assault is given and passes a polygraph test?

Especially if the accuser has a criminal record.

In 1991, when the rich white fellow accused of rape was William Kennedy Smith, his accuser (a young white woman from a wealthy family) was given TWO polygraph tests by the prosecution (not to mention a voice stress test) before Mr. Smith was prosecuted.

Should a black accuser NOT be polygraphed when she charges rape?

Should the path to prosecuting a Kennedy be more arduous that the path to prosecuting the Duke Three...or anyone else?

Susan Estrich is a rape victim disposed to believe a rape claim, even the gang rape claim in the Duke case. Yes, Ms. Estrich seems to have "gotten it," finally, at least with respect to the Duke case. But Ms. Estrich earlier explained her predisposition as follows: ""Do women lie about rape? Occasionally, but no study has ever found that women lie about rape any more often than men lie about other crimes. Why would they, given the stigma that is still attached to victims, and the humiliation involved in pursuing a complaint?"

Dr. Eugene J. Kanin of the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Purdue University is the author of "An alarming national trend: False Rape Allegations" (Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1, 1994, pages 81-90).

The abstract for this article states: "With the cooperation of the police agency of a small metropolitan community, 45 consecutive, disposed, false rape allegations covering a 9 year period were studied. False rape allegations constitute 41% of the total forcible rape cases (109) reported during this period. These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations."

Some feminists apparently think any rape claim must be true, but that thought defies reality.

In the Duke case, Ms. Mangum was transported to the Durham Access Center by police officers who believed that she met the criteria for involuntary commitment. That strikes me as a stressful situation for Ms. Mangum. Ms. Mangum did not allege physical or sexual assault at the lacrosse team party until involuntary commitment loomed.

Surely it should have occurred to the police and the prosecution that Ms. Mangum's gang rape claim (of which there were multiple, significantly difference versions) was an "impulsive and desperate" attempt to cope with a personally stressful situation.

Dr. Kamin recognized that legitimate rape cases were discounted before pressure from women's groups caused them to be taken seriously but concluded that now false rape claims are treated as legitimate.

Dr. Kamin:

"Currently, the two main identifiable adversaries involved in the false rape allegations controversy are the feminists and the police. The feminists are by far the most expressive and prominent on this issue. Some feminists take the position that the declaration of rape as false or unfounded largely means that the police do not believe the complainant; that is, the rape charges are real reflections of criminal assault, but the agents of the criminal justice system do not believe them (Brownmiller, 1975; Russell, 1984). Some feminists virtually deny the existence of false rape accusations and believe the concept itself constitutes discriminatory harassment toward women (see Grano, 1990). On the other hand, police are prone to say the reason for not believing some rape complainants resides in the fact that the rapes never occurred (Payton, 1967; Wilson, 1978; Jay, 1991). Medical Examiners lend support to this police position by emphasizing the ever-present possibility that rape complainants may be lying (Shill, 1969, 1971).

"METHODS

"This investigation is essentially a case study of one police agency in a small metropolitan area (population 70,000) in the Midwestern United States. This city was targeted for study because it offered an almost model laboratory for studying false rape allegations. First, its police agency is not inundated with serious felony cases and, therefore, has the freedom and the motivation to record and thoroughly pursue all rape complaints. In fact, agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. Second, the declaration of a false allegation follows a highly institutionalized procedure. The investigation of all rape complaints always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects. Additionally, for a declaration of false charge to be made, the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false. The police department will not declare a rape charge as false when the complainant, for whatever reason, fails to pursue the charge or cooperate on the case, regardless how much doubt the police may have regarding the validity of the charge.

"In short, these cases are declared false only because the complainant admitted they are false. Furthermore, only one person is then empowered to enter into the records a formal declaration that the charge is false, the officer in charge of records. Last, it should be noted that this department does not confuse reported rape attempts with completed rapes. Thus, the rape complainants referred to in this paper are for completed forcible rapes only. The foregoing leaves us with a certain confidence that cases declared false by this police agency are indeed a reasonable- if not a minimal reflection of false rape allegations made to this agency, especially when one considers that a finding of false allegation is totally dependent upon the recantation of the rape charge.

"We followed and investigated all false rape allegations from 1978 to 1987. A ranking police official notified us whenever a rape charge was declared false and provided us with the records of the case. In addition, the investigating officers provided any requested supplementary information so that we could be confident of the validity of the false rape allegation declarations.

"FINDINGS

"Regarding this study, 41% (45) of the total disposed rape cases (109) were officially declared false during this 9-year period, that is, by the complainant's admission that no rape had occurred and the charge, therefore, was false. The incidence figure was variable from year to year and ranged from a low of 27% (3 out of 11 cases) to a high of 70% (7 out of 10 cases). The 9-year period suggests no trends, and no explanation has been made for the year-to-year fluctuation.

"The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants' own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture. Of course, we are not asserting that these functions are mutually exclusive or exhaustive; rather, these rape recantations focused on a single factor explanation. A possible objection to these recantations concerns their validity. Rae recantations could be the result of the complainants' desire to avoid a 'second assault at the hands of the police. Rather than proceed with the real charge of rape, the argument goes, these women withdrew their accusations to avoid the trauma of police investigation.

"Several responses are possible to this type of criticism. First, with very few exceptions, these complainants were suspect at the time of the complaint or within a day or two after charging. These recantations did not follow prolonged periods of investigation and interrogation that would constitute anything approximating a second assault. Second, not one of the detectives believed that an incident of false recantation had occurred. They argued, rather convincingly, that in those cases where a suspect was identified and interrogated, the facts of the recantation dovetailed with the suspect's own defense. Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation. Although we certainly do not deny the possibility of false recantations, no evidence supports such an interpretation for these cases.

"RELATED FINDINGS

In addition to the foregoing, certain other findings and observations relevant to false allegations warrant comment. First, false allegations failed to include accusations of forced sexual acts other than penile-vaginal intercourse. Not one complainant mentions forced oral or anal sex. In contrast, these acts were included in approximately 25% of the rounded forcible rape complaints. Perhaps it was simply psychologically and socially more prudent for these women to minimize the humiliation of sexual victimization by not embroidering the event any more than necessary. This phenomenon has been observed previously (McDowell and Hibler, 1987).

"One of the most haunting and serious implications of false rape allegations concerns the possibility of miscarried justice. We know that false convictions occur, but this study only tells us that these false accusers were weeded out during the very early stages of investigation. However encouraging this result may be, we cannot claim that false charging does not incur suffering for the accused. Merely to be a rape suspect, even for a day or two, translates into psychological and social trauma.

"We may well be faced with the fact that the most efficient police departments report the higher incidence of false rape allegations. In view of these factors, perhaps the most prudent summary statement that is appropriate from these data is that false rape accusations are not uncommon. Since this effort is the first at a systematic, long-term, on-site investigation of false rape allegations from a single city, future studies in other cities, with comparable policies, must assess the representativeness of these findings."

Further, Dr. Kamin noted studies of women on college campuses which show an approximately 50% rate of false rape reports, similar to the study above:

"Quite unexpectedly then, we find that these university women, when filing a rape complaint, were as likely to file a false as a valid charge. Other reports from university police agencies support these findings (Jay, 1991). In both police agencies, the taking of the complaint and the follow-up investigation was the exclusive responsibility of a ranking female officer. Neither agency employed the polygraph and neither declared the complaint false without a recantation of the charge."

My conclusions:

(1) The polygraph should be employed to help evaluate rape claims (as it was by the police in the Midwestern city reported on by Dr. Kamin);

(2) Willingness or reluctance to take a polygraph test should be accorded substantial weight in deciding whether or not to seek to indict;

(3) Grand juries should be notified of offers to take and refusals as well as test results;

(4) The problem of unpunished rapes is not solved by punishing the innocent for imaginary rapes;

(5) The Duke rape case is a hoax to which Mr. Nifong has been blind, even willfully blind;

(6) The indictments of the Duke Three should be dismissed immediately as improvidently granted and in the interests of justice;

(7) Mr. Nifong should be ousted from office by the voters of Durham County, North Carolina;

(8) Mr. Nifong should be investigated for professional misconduct by all appropriate authorities;

(9) Mr. Nifong should be sued by anyone with a claim against him who cares to pursue it; and

(10) Ms. Mangum should overcome her fear and come forward now and mitigate the damage done by admitting that she was not raped and explaining that she too is a victim of Mr. Nifong, NOT wait for the case to collapse. (For her own sake as well as the sakes of the Duke Three, their families and friends, the people of Durham and criminal justice generally, she should speak out and let Mr. Nifong know that she is not his to command.)



http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/060920

quote:

by Dick Haws
Haws teaches journalism at Iowa State University.

Readers of The Kansas City Star were told last March that, according to police estimates, perhaps 25 percent of all rape reports nationwide are false.

But in Dallas, two months before that, the Morning News reported police findings that 6.2 percent of the 793 rapes in that city in 1995 (the most recent year available) were considered false.

And in Louisville, six months earlier, the author of an op-ed article in The Courier-Journal told readers that the percentage of rape reports that turn out to be false was the same nationally as for other major crimes - around 2 percent.

So how can one presumably simple statistic vary so widely? Because the number depends on whom you ask.

If you talk to sexual assault counselors, you'll most likely hear the low figure: that 2 percent of all accusations of sexual assault reported to law enforcement across the country are later found to be false, which, the counselors say, is the same rate as for other crimes. Of all the numbers out there, this has been cited most often, appearing in publications from The Boston Globe to the Houston Chronicle, The Christian Science Monitor, the Minneapolis Star Tribune, Newsweek, and Editor & Publisher.

Sometimes the figure is attributed to a particular source ? but that's still no guarantee the numbers can't be challenged. Marcia L. Roth, the author of the 1996 op-ed article in the Louisville Courier-Journal, attributed the 2 percent rate to the 1993 book Rape, the Misunderstood Crime, by Julie Allison and Lawrence Wrightsman. But Allison and Wrightsman weren't so unequivocal. Noting that the frequency of false rape reports is difficult to assess, they didn't do their own study; instead they looked at a synthesis of research findings from a 1979 book, Understanding the Rape Victim, by Sedelle Katz and Mary Ann Mazur. Katz and Mazur, it turns out, had reviewed studies dating back to 1956 that showed the frequency of unfounded and false rape reports ranging from a low of 1 percent to a high of 25 percent. Allison and Wrightsman simply chose the study that showed 2 percent.

Another named source for the 2 percent figure has been Against Our Will, the groundbreaking book on sexual violence by Susan Brownmiller published in 1975. She was reporting on the phenomenon that in New York City, the rate of false accusations dropped "dramatically" to 2 percent as soon as the police began using policewomen instead of men to interview complainants.
Sometimes the 2 percent figure appears without any attribution. It simply floats out there, as in a 1994 article in the Houston Chronicle that cites a women's center official as the source for the false-rape-report figure of "between 2 and 3 percent." Period. And sometimes the attribution is vague but credible-sounding, like "federal statistics" or "the FBI." In 1992, The Boston Globe reported that a rape counselor stated the 2 percent rate for false reporting of rapes is the same as for false reports of other crimes - "according to the FBI."

But the FBI has been saying since 1991 that the annual rate for the false reporting of forcible sexual assault across the country has been a consistent 8 percent (through 1995, the most recent year available). That's four times higher than the average of the false-reporting rates of the other crimes tracked by the FBI in its Uniform Crime Report. The agency's guidelines define a report as false when an investigation determines that no offense occurred. A complainant's failure or refusal to cooperate in the investigation does not, by itself, lead to a finding of false report.

If you look to academe for such studies about false reports, you'll come across the unusually high percentage found by the Purdue University sociologist Eugene J. Kanin, now retired. In an examination of rape reports from 1978 to 1987 in an unnamed midwestern city of 70,000, he found that of the 109 rapes reported to the police, 45, or 41 percent, were subsequently classified as false. Kanin also got the police records of two unnamed large state universities and found that in three years, 50 percent of the 64 rapes reported to campus police were determined to be false.

One explanation for such a wide range in the statistics might simply be that they come from different studies of different populations at different times. But there's also a strong political tilt to the debate. A low number would undercut a belief about rape as old as the story of Joseph and Potiphar's wife: that some women, out of shame or vengeance or, more recently, the desire to circumvent restrictions on their ability to get or pay for an abortion, claim that their consensual encounters or rebuffed advances were rapes. If the number is high, on the other hand, advocates for women who have been raped worry it may also taint the credibility of the genuine victims of sexual assault.

Yet the times may be changing, and while some women still make false charges, true rape victims don't seem to be feeling the backlash. The Kansas City Star reported as much when it assessed the impact earlier this year of the false rape complaint lodged against Michael Irvin and Erik Williams of the Dallas Cowboys. "We're not having any fallout," a Dallas sexual abuse counselor told the Star in March. "Had this been twenty years ago, I would have really worried about it."

It's obvious every one of these numbers has its shortcoming. Defenders of low rates of "false reports" generally base their opinions on studies that, for the most part, are more than twenty years old. Since then, there's been a virtual revolution in the way the police and the courts respond to sexual assault.

The FBI's numbers have also been criticized on several grounds, including the bureau's assumption that all 16,765 police agencies across the country have carefully and uniformly followed its guidelines for judging a rape "unfounded." That's simply not likely.

And some of the studies are obviously limited. Kanin of Purdue warned against reading too much into his examination of the small midwestern city: "Certainly our intent is not to suggest that the 41 percent incidence found here be extrapolated to other populations, particularly in light of our ignorance regarding the structural variables."

For the reporter, the conclusion is clear. Don't rely on one source. Talk to the local sexual assault counselors, talk to the local police, talk to the FBI, talk to the academics. Try to make some sense out of all the different numbers. And be careful.



http://www.misandryreview.com/?p=3868

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venusdeindia
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posted January 19, 2009 08:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venusdeindia     Edit/Delete Message
quote:

About Half of Rape Allegations are False, Research Shows


False allegations of rape are believed to be more common than many persons realize. These are the findings of four research studies:

A review of 556 rape accusations filed against Air Force personnel found that 27% of women later recanted. Then 25 criteria were developed based on the profile of those women, and then submitted to three independent reviewers to review the remaining cases. If all three reviewers deemed the allegation was false, it was categorized as false.

As a result, 60% of all allegations were found to be false.

1 Of those women who later recanted, many didn't admit the allegation was false until just before taking a polygraph test. Others admitted it was false only after having failed a polygraph test.

2
In a nine-year study of 109 rapes reported to the police in a Midwestern city, Purdue sociologist Eugene J. Kanin reported that in 41% of the cases the complainants eventually admitted that no rape had occurred.

3
In a follow-up study of rape claims filed over a three-year period at two large Midwestern universities, Kanin found that of 64 rape cases, 50% turned out to be false.

4 Among the false charges, 53% of the women admitted they filed the false claim as an alibi.


5
According to a 1996 Department of Justice report, “in about 25% of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI, ... the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing.6 It should be noted that rape involves a forcible and non-consensual act, and a DNA match alone does not prove that rape occurred. So the 25% figure substantially underestimates the true extent of false allegations.


And according to former Colorado prosecutor Craig Silverman, “For 16 years, I was a kick-ass prosecutor who made most of my reputation vigorously prosecuting rapists. ... I was amazed to see all the false rape allegations that were made to the Denver Police Department. ... A command officer in the Denver Police sex assaults unit recently told me he placed the false rape numbers at approximately 45%.”7

According to the FBI, about 95,000 forcible rapes were reported in 2004.8 Based on the statements and studies cited above, some 47,000 American men are falsely accused of rape each year. These men are disproportionately African-American.9

Some of these men are wrongly convicted, sentenced, and imprisoned. Even if there is no conviction, a false allegation of rape can “emotionally, socially, and economically destroy a person.”10


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koiflower
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posted January 19, 2009 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message

For any woman that has been raped, this will be hard for them to read. Congratulations for undermining the struggle women go through to be taken seriously.

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koiflower
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posted January 19, 2009 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for koiflower     Edit/Delete Message
How about actually reading sunshine lion's post. Here it is again, in case the details alluded you.

AMERICAN RAPE STATISTICS
Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)

The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States wereraped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.)

SILENT VICTIMS :

One of the most startling aspects of sex crimes is how many go unreported. The most common reasons given by women for not reporting these crimes are the belief that it is a private or personal matter and the fear of reprisal from the assailant.

Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994)

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

In 1994-1995, only 251,560 rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials -- less than one in every three. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

An overwhelming majority of rape service agencies believe that public education about rape, and expanded counseling and advocacy services for rape victims, would be effective in increasing the willingness of victims to report rapes to the police. (Rape in America, 1992, National Victim Center with Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center.)

LIVING IN FEAR :

According to the U.S. Department of Justice: (All statistics are taken from: Violenceagainst Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

One of every four rapes take place in a public area or in a parking garage.

31% of female victims reported that the offender was a stranger.

68% of rapes occur between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m.

At least 45% of rapists were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

In 29% of rapes, the offender used a weapon.

In 47% of rapes, the victim sustained injuries other than rape injuries.

75% of female rape victims require medical care after the attack.

NOT JUST A FAMILY MATTER :

Family violence and abuse are among the most prevalent forms of interpersonal violence against women and young children -- both boys and girls. The sexual abuse of a child should never be "just a family matter," but many children are afraid to report an incident to the police because the abusers are too often a family friend or relative.

Approximately one-third of all juvenile victims of sexual abuse cases are children younger than 6 years of age. (Violence and the Family, Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family, 1996.)

According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12. (Child Rape Victims, 1992. U.S. Department of Justice.)

FACE OF AMERICA :

About 81% of rape victims are white; 18% are black; 1% are of other races. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

About half of all rape victims are in the lowest third of income distribution; half are in the upper two-thirds. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994.)

There were 71 forcible rapes per 100,000 females reported to United States law enforcement agencies in 1996. 2

Data from the National Women's Study, a longitudinal telephone survey of a national household probability sample of women at least 18 years of age, show 683,000 women forcibly raped each year and that 84% of rape victims did not report the offense to the police.3

Using Uniform Crime Report data for 1994 and 1995, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that of rape victims who reported the offense to law enforcement, about 40% were under the age of 18, and 15% were younger than 12.4

In a national survey 27.7% of college women reported a sexual experience since the age of fourteen that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape, and 7.7% of college men reported perpetrating aggressive behavior which met the legal definition of rape.5

The National Crime Victimization Survey indicates that for 1992-1993, 92% of rapes were committed by known assailants.1 About half of all rapes and sexual assaults against women are committed by friends and acquaintances, and 26% are by intimate partners.1

Risk factors for perpetrating sexual violence include: early sexual experience (both forced and voluntary),6 adherence by men to sex role stereotyping,7,8 negative attitudes of men towards women,6,9,,10,11,12, alcohol consumption,8,13 acceptance of rape myths by men.8,9,12,14,15

Non-forceful verbal resistance and lack of resistance are associated with rape completion.1,6

The adult pregnancy rate associated with rape is estimated to be 4.7%. This information, in conjunction with estimates based on the U.S. Census, suggest that there may be 32,101 annual rape-related pregnancies among American women over the age of 18.17

Non-genital physical injuries occur in approximately 40% of completed rape cases.18 As many as 3% of all rape cases have non-genital injuries requiring overnight hospitalization.19

Victims of rape often manifest long-term symptoms of chronic headaches,18,20fatigue20, sleep disturbance20, recurrent nausea,20 decreased appetite,21 eating disorders,22 menstrual pain,18 sexual dysfunction,23 and suicide attempts.21 In a longitudinal study, sexual assault was found to increase the odds of substance abuse by a factor of 2.5.24

Estimates of the occurrence of sexually transmitted diseases resulting from rape range from 3.6% to 30%.18,22 HIV transmission risk rate from rape is estimated at 1 in 500,22,25 although a few probable cases have been documented in Sweden and Great Britain. 26,27

Victims of marital or date rape are 11 times more likely to be clinically depressed, and 6 times more likely to experience social phobia than are non-victims. Psychological problems are still evident in cases as long as 15 years after the assault.28

Fatalities occur in about 0.1% of all rape cases.29,30

A study examining the use of health services over a five year period by female members of a health maintenance program found that the number of visits to physicians by rape victims increased 56% in the year following the crime, compared to a 2% utilization increase by non-victims.31

The National Public Services Research Institute estimates the lifetime cost for each rape with physical injuries which occurred in 1987 to be $60,000.32

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Azalaksh
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posted January 19, 2009 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
About Half of Rape Allegations are False, Research Shows

False allegations of rape are believed to be more common than many persons realize. These are the findings of four research studies:

A review of 556 rape accusations filed against Air Force personnel found that 27% of women later recanted. Then 25 criteria were developed based on the profile of those women, and then submitted to three independent reviewers to review the remaining cases. If all three reviewers deemed the allegation was false, it was categorized as false.

As a result, 60% of all allegations were found to be false.


Interesting that there is no *credible* reference or link for this from the person who posted it.....

Hey, I've got one TOO!!
"About 60% of all statistics are faked."

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katatonic
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posted January 21, 2009 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
i find it possible to believe this statistic, that a high percentage of accusations of rape and domestic violence are false -

HOWEVER i would like to point out that a high percentage of rapes and domestic violence incidents are NOT REPORTED AT ALL. because a) the woman's self esteem doesn't encourage her to think she will get help - and ineffective accusations lead to more violence in many cases b) she doesn't want the "father of her child" who is more often than not the "perp" to be incarcerated (bad for the kids) c)she thinks she asked for it d) she doesn't want to go through the process of interrogation...

which leads me to the other problem with the statistic on "false" accusations...so often the woman is subjected to humiliation and disbelief (or threats of reprisal from the perp) that she will withdraw her claim without seeing it through! and even if the charge sticks she has to deal with him afterwards and that is no joke!

in any case statistics are famous for their manipulability (is that a word) to prove whatever point you want to make!

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amowls
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posted January 21, 2009 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for amowls     Edit/Delete Message
an astounding 50 % of Rape accusations are FALSE

and an even more astounding number of rape cases never end in a prosecution. and so many more rapes go unreported because victims do not want to come forward and have to deal with people who DONT BELIEVE THEM.

what do you propose venus? laugh at any woman who claims she's been raped? what exactly do you want to do about it?

or what about all innocent people in jail for other crimes? is that not a problem too? or do you want to set women back 50 years and repeal the spousal rape law.

sorry, this is making me really heated.

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katatonic
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posted January 21, 2009 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
amowls - snap!

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 21, 2009 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not really getting the point you're trying to make here, Venus. I understand that you're saying *some* accusations are false, but how safe is it to merely make conclusions based on statistics, anyway? There's always a statistic to back up which ever view you have...it can be quite convenient when someone chooses a side to take.

As several other posters have pointed out, many other rapes are NOT reported...so does this 'balance' things out for you a little more, or what?

If a man indeed did not rape a woman but is being charged with doing so, then that's terrible...no argument there. I take the thing on a case-to-case basis. Did he rape her or did he not? Yes or no? If he did, then there you have it. If not, then that needs to be dealt with. If no one's sure, then more investigation is needed.

If there's anything all these statistics are saying, it's that rape is being viewed in an extremely impersonal way, and not being looked at on a real case-to-case basis. As far as I'm concerned, the situation itself is more pressing than the numbers. It's losing the human equation in the whole process, which is extremely troubling.

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Scorpionic Web
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posted January 21, 2009 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message
"It is better guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" -Benjamin Franklin

Other significant historic figures have said the opposite.

Without getting involved in this thread's specific politics, I agree with Benjamin Franklin on this principle.

In these cases where sex cannot be proven as Forced or Consentual, it comes down to this simple concept.

Irrespective of the variety of crime, would you rather:

A) Let a guilty person go free of a 30 year sentence
Or
B) Send an innocent person to prison for 30 years.

I would like to hear some votes on this one.

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sunshine_lion
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posted January 21, 2009 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
what is even more alarming is the poster is a counselor for victims of abuse. i pray about this because i think support should be genuine and compassionate and generous. it is unbelievably sad to me. like i want to cry thinking about it.

scorp web - i think we have to trust our judicial system to be fair and that with the rule being everyone innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. sure they make some mistakes but overall it is a very good judicial system that we have in place here. proven beyond resonable doubt. that to me says more guilty people walk than innocent people imprisoned.

i wonder how many people per day she counsels. your real feelings show through your eyes. they tell what is in the soul. when those poor women look into her eyes and see reproach, disapproval and disgust, that to me is so unbelievably sad.

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Scorpionic Web
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posted January 21, 2009 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scorpionic Web     Edit/Delete Message
Sunshine:

I understand that "innocent until proven guilty" is the supposed format of the U.S. criminal justice system, but I'm asking for personal opinions here. Would you rather: A) Let a guilty person go free of a 30 year sentence, or B) Send an innocent person to prison for 30 years.

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MyVirgoMask
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posted January 21, 2009 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
"A) Let a guilty person go free of a 30 year sentence
Or
B) Send an innocent person to prison for 30 years."


Neither. Both seem rather extreme to me.
I also agree with Benjamin Franklin to an extent here, but I think it's a bit weird for me to choose one or the other absolutely...personally.

If I HAD to choose, I would choose the first one. I kind of hate myself for making that choice. And self-loathing is not my forte.

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