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Author Topic:   Fall-out with a friend...very confused here
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 25, 2009 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
I just had a falling out with someone I've known for 5 years. I think I need some feedback here, that's why I am posting this.
I don't know if I've been too judgmental, but he's done certain things in the past 6 months which have made me question his character in general. He was always a very good listener and there for me in my time of need, and for that I was always grateful.

Then, in the past 6 months, he visited me with his 14 year-old (very troubled) son and I was appalled that he let his son drink with us for 3 nights. Not just taste, but slam down a few margaritas. I didn't say anything because I didn't feel it was my place to talk, but all I could think of how he was trying to hook up his son with my little sister - that just left me cold.

I finally said something to him about 3 weeks later, made it clear that it was none of my business, but I was concerned. He said it was normal in his family and that he'd been getting his son used to drinking over the past few years ?

On top of that, this friend of mine has had a recent history of being involved with women in a very sleazy way. I've not flat-out told him I was wrong, but tried to hint from time to time about it, but he's kind of set in his ways now and doesn't see anything wrong with how he's been treating certain women, and it just makes me feel pretty weird. And no, I had no feelings for him - he was always a friend only (although he has kind of fished for more, and I always made sure to diffuse it).

So, to make a long story longer....

He's got some kind of business which he's trying to start and has been trying to get some of his friends together to sign all these people so that they own part of the business in case he dies. He's been consistently working on this death stuff for a while, and it kind of concerns me because he seems depressed, and I guess I am scared to sign and have him like, off himself or something. I kind of told him that I was nervous about all this death stuff (didn't mention suicide), but he told me it was all normal.
I told him recently that I would not sign the papers partially because I didn't understand the 20-page legal jargon he sent me, and because I felt weird giving out my social security number, and because I was just concerned about him.

I hate that I sound so judgmental, but I couldn't do it. He emailed me back that he didn't like the woman I was becoming in 2009 , and told me to eff off, and said he didn't want to be my friend anymore!

I'm really confused, because I feel....oddly relieved. I'm trying to rebuild my life in a way, and I didn't want to cut him out of it because he has been there for me in the past, but he's also made snipes about me doing certain new things in my life (like trying to have a more positive perspective)...plus all the stuff I wrote about above, it just kept coming into my mind and something felt very, very off about the whole thing.

Does this all sound terrible of me to do? I am sorry to ramble on like this, but I just need some outside perspectives I guess

Thanks.

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spunknini
Knowflake

Posts: 1199
From: Sydney NSW, Australia
Registered: Mar 2008

posted February 25, 2009 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spunknini     Edit/Delete Message
MVM


I am so sorry that you are going through this ordeal.

This is not a trivial subject at all & very disturbing.

Minors should not be drinking. It is child abuse. Period.

Follow your instincts MVM.

Let him go. He is responsible for his choices in life & will bare the consequences of them.

Sometimes in life friendships come to an end. Sometimes we get them back, other times not. It is heartbreaking I know.

IMO you already know what you have to do.

I'm sorry that I cannot help you.

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PeaceAngel
Knowflake

Posts: 10107
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008

posted February 25, 2009 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
From what you've said, I can't see that you are being judgemental. I can see that you are being a caring friend. And wanting to protect yourself and your information is your right and if something feels off, always best to follow that feeling. I think you're looking after yourself, and maybe that's a new shift for you and what you've started in these 2009 changes that he's seeing. You're placing yourself first and toxic people in your life, when you do that, will resent you because they can't keep you in that place anymore - either some place they want to keep you at so that they can appease their own attitude or behaviour or they resent you exceeding their expectations of you, ie. some type of growth or success.

Time for you sweetheart. That could mean leaving people to dwell in their own stuff. I would suggest to you to put a thing out to the universe where you just say you release that which no longer serves you and what is right will stay and the perfect new things will come your way. The other thing is, you can ask for a peaceful relationship with this person, but in a way that is not toxic to you, and also send him love or surround him with pink light (if he accepts it) and let what will be be. That way you've taken care of you, and him as best as you can. You have no reason to feel guilty. That you feel relieved speaks loads. My feeling on this is that you should take the opportunity to walk away - but it can be done in a loving, peaceful way so that you have peace about it.

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 25, 2009 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Spunknini and PA - thank you. I am trying to follow my own instincts here, and I've already lost another friend who was there for me for a long time as well, but who was somewhat 'toxic'....and it does feel like a change of perspective for me lately.

It's weird because the friends who were with me at my *lowest* point sometimes seem like whenever I try to rise and get my life together, they just get really negative or something, and make all sorts of jabs at me, and make fun of it. And I'm done with that stuff, you know?

So I am trying to listen to my own intuition. I am very angry about it, that someone who would accept me at my lowest points would try to actually keep me there in some way.... but you're right, PA, I do need to just try and let it go, and put out love regardless...just for peace of mind.

Thanks

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PeaceAngel
Knowflake

Posts: 10107
From: Australia
Registered: May 2008

posted February 25, 2009 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Because someone has been kind/helpful or just there for you in the past does not indebt you to them forever. It is an act of kindness, and that's what people do - with no expectation in return. That's friendship. You don't owe them. I'm sure that you have done plenty for them over the years too. And maybe, in yourself, you can't see that - because maybe you haven't placed value upon it. But I'm sure you have. Consider it even - a balanced exchange - and everything is as it should/needs to be in that regard.

You said:

quote:
And I'm done with that stuff, you know?

The only person who needs to know it is you.

I think you're fantastic. You just deserve great things. You're smart, bright, have this vivacious energy about you. Just go for your own heights girl. People will try to hold you back. That's the nature of the beast. But when you believe in yourself - wow - you can do everything in your heart. And that's where I think you are right now - fighting for your own right to do that.

And you find yourself here - with new friends - wanting to help you empower yourself. You're surrounded by love and support when you need it.

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 25, 2009 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
PA, thank you....That means a lot coming from you...I feel very lucky

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sunshine9
Knowflake

Posts: 1174
From: Chapel Hill, NC, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted February 25, 2009 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine9     Edit/Delete Message
Dear MVM..

You don't sound judgmental at all.. you were just trying to be a good friend. If he wants to cut you out now, there's nothing you can do - it's up to him to come to his senses and realize you were right. Hopefully someday he will understand where you were coming from, and stop the downward trends in his life. You've done everything you can - you've been there for him, expressed your concerns.. let him figure it out now.. If he can't accept who you are now, it's his loss - could he be jealous of the progress you're making in your life, toward your goals?

I realize it is very hard to suddenly lose a dear friend; I lost a girlfriend who'd been so dear to me - lost, as in had a falling out - 5 years ago, and sometimes I still have the occasional dream about her. But just know that you will be alright.. I'm here for you if you want to talk it out..


Sunshine

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Chryseis
Knowflake

Posts: 249
From: Australia
Registered: Dec 2008

posted February 25, 2009 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chryseis     Edit/Delete Message
MVM,
remember that dream you had(the fella that came and sat beside you, i never got the good feel for him at all - well, I would definitely set some pretty good boundaries up between you and this guy,IMO, same guy...

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 8141
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted February 25, 2009 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
MVM ~

I don't have much more to add to the already wonderful replies in this thread, except for this:

People grow and their perspectives shift and sharpen. It sounds like you've outgrown this fella.....
It also sounds like Attempted Manipulation on his part ("write her off, see if she changes her mind and comes back around on my terms").....
Your values do not coincide with his at this point in your lives. I find that I cannot have a friendship with someone who doesn't share similar values -- it's sad, but it's life.....

A short story --
I drank too much for many years. My best drinking buddy was my brother. When I quit drinking, he was very upset and for a long time would bug me to go out and get looped like in the old days. He refused to acknowledge my change of values/habits. When he finally did, he was mad. He resented me for not staying in the same rut that he has found comfortable. He'd have liked to follow me out of the rut, I think -- but the devil you know is less scary than the devil you don't.....

Let peace be in your heart, and move on ~
Z

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Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 1388
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007

posted February 25, 2009 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
PA said it best! MVM, you are a wonderful person, don't let him bring you down!

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 25, 2009 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you, guys!!

Yeah, I think my main feeling has been one of guilt for *not* feeling more hurt that he's gone, actually...but I'm over it for now.

And Zala, you are right....my exact thought was that our values are just very different. We really do not see eye to eye anymore. And I did feel he was attempting to manipulate me...when I asked him what he meant by 'the woman I was becoming in 2009', he never responded. So I do feel like he was trying to get me to beg him to tell me what's wrong, but I told him I wouldn't do that and he should just be straight with me, and that's when he told me to eff off. So, I felt that was pretty manipulative of him, and I don't have the energy or appetite to playing such games anymore. And I think that's what really got to him too.

I'm not sad, I'm ****** off LOL. That's what I'm trying to get over now

calm calm calm lol

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blue moon
Moderator

Posts: 5958
From: U.K
Registered: Dec 2007

posted February 26, 2009 02:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message
MVM, I just read that through once, and having been deprived of my morning tea here (shopping malfunction) my brain isn't quite awake.

But my first thought is forget judgemental, you are acting here on your gut instincts and you are probably right.

The son ~ he sounds like he is trying to force him to grow up and be a man, ready or not. It might be connected to his business handover scenario, who knows?

I wouldn't sign it either if I didn't fully understand all the implications. That's not a judgement call on his character, that's common sense. Who knows what you could be getting into?

If he came out and told you what was on his mind, as much as he can reveal, and approached you honestly, you would probably give a different response. But for whatever reason, and it might be a good one(s), he is acting as though he has ulterior motives he doesn't want to disclose.

His reaction to your refusal, whilst hurtful to you personally, from my outsider's standpoint inclines me more to be suspicous of these hidden motives.

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heart cakes
Knowflake

Posts: 1839
From: canada
Registered: Sep 2007

posted February 26, 2009 04:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for heart cakes     Edit/Delete Message
aw, peace angel is true to her name.

i agree, mVm, don't feel badly at all. this is why i feel lucky to be an aquarian. people already know i'm pretty detached and will do what i feel is best for me. doesn't often make for close friendships, but freedom and being true to myself is of highest priority. i'm only learning to do that stuff now, though, at 30. i am a little bit sad too that i feel i'm losing a pretty close friend. we've been friends for 4 years and have considered her my closest consistent girl friend in all of this time. when she found out about me and my boyfriend being together she got very negative and was not happy for me, and even flirted with him. it was very weird. the vibes were just not right at all. and i don't know what to say to her about it, and so i won't, but i feel like it's a part of us drifting apart. so i know how you feel, but the point is, always, to be true to yourself. you're obviously a caring person and i'm sure you tried your best to keep things harmonious, so do not feel guilty!!

keep your heart open and your eyes clear, ms. Vm.

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 574
From: California
Registered: Nov 2006

posted February 26, 2009 06:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
Sounds to me like he's treating you very similar to how he treats "sleazy women." He doesn't care what you think, he obviously thinks you should just go along with it, even if it's him hooking up his son with your daughter or you signing legal papers with personal info that can be used against you.

Of course he doesn't seem happy. How can he when he can't truly connect to people? He's just a lone individual that uses other people as much as he can manipulate those people into being used, and that's a path of loneliness. I doubt he even connects with his son but lives more vicariously through him (maybe he'd LIKE to...)

Maybe he's going through one of those mid-life crisis things, too. Not that such would excuse how he treats females.

IOW, doesn't sound terrible to me. What would be terrible, IMO, would be letting your daughter see you being used by such a man (and possibly allowing her to be used as well).

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 26, 2009 07:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks, guys I'm just glad to go with my own gut here. I do in the end, but often there's some guilt because I just don't like hurting others. However, my guilt doesn't last long because I don't like having a gnawing conscience in general.

Dervish, it's my little sister, not my daughter, btw.
There's no one getting used here. It's over- nothing's been signed and he's not a friend anymore. You're right in that he's a lonely individual and have tried to be his friend, but don't really care for his recent use of women the past 6 months. But that's really none of my business - his girlfriends can deal with it if they like.

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 4008
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted February 26, 2009 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
Sweetie, you've outgrown him

For starters supplying alcohol to a 14 year old is a big old bright red flag.

Do you really want someone who tells you strange things are "normal"
to have access to your assets and future assets?

The nasty e-mail is just a hard sell.
it's an ultimatum
no signiture, no friendship.

You don't need it.

wish him well and let him go
maybe sometime in the future, you can reconnect.

good luck

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writesomething
Knowflake

Posts: 2861
From: meet me in montauk
Registered: May 2006

posted February 26, 2009 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for writesomething     Edit/Delete Message
I would NEVER give out my SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER! Not to anyone! If they want to leave me something, they can leave it to me in their will. I dont care either way. This guy sounds like a jerk. I know how hard it is to dissolve ties with people we've known over the years...but not all friendships are meant to last a lifetime. I had to break ties with a friend I knew for 4 years, and was someone I could tell anything to, and be open with...but I couldnt be his friend anymore because he wasnt the person I befriended a long time ago...he had so many issues, and I tried to be a friend, and "save" him...but he didnt LISTEN, didnt care...and I didnt want to get sucked into his Neptune world(he has Pisces rising)....One day, I decided to stop talking and seeing him. Biggest difficulty for me has always been breaking ties with friends...Its like I almost rather have no friends and be alone than to lose someone Ive grown close to....

Anyways, im rambling! But DONT EVER GIVE OUT YOUR SOCIAL #! Thats a BIG NO NO, ever. Why doesnt he will it over to his son? thats strange.

Good luck.

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 997
From: ca, usa
Registered: Jan 2008

posted February 26, 2009 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
let me chime in too! if you're feeling pressured, if you don't like the way he treats women (sounds like he thinks you shouldn't mind since its not you, BUT...) if it basically feels off, its time to let go. if he is a real friend you will probably find out about that sooner or later. if not, you've cleared a space for someone more positive in your life...

i second the suggestion that those who are with us when we're in a bad place often resent us for climbing out. you know the crab bucket story? there's a whole site devoted to this scenario. put a bunch of crabs in a bucket and they will not only climb over each other to get out, but those below will pull the ones closer to the top back down! misery loves company!!

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Dulce Luna
Knowflake

Posts: 4958
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted February 26, 2009 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
I know I'm late in replying to this but I don't think you did anything wrong at all...

1) I wouldn't give out my Social to my *best* friend.

2) He seems really shady, and so does this business prospect. I don't blame you for being weary. It sounds, in a much more sophisticated way, like the jams I would *almost* get myself into because I *almost* went along with crazy ideas my sag friend came up with.

The guy doesn't sound too stable or happy with himself and you did express how genuinely concerned for him you were as a friend. He just didn't want to hear it.

And that's the thing I don't get: why don't certain people who are there for us in bad times like it when we finally are able to stand on our own feet again? I know not everyone who is there for us is like that but it trips me up because its *so* counterintuitive. Don't you want the person to do better? I guess it's either a form of control, insecurity, or jealousy

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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake

Posts: 2742
From: Florida for now
Registered: Sep 2008

posted February 27, 2009 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the responses, it sets my mind at ease a great deal here

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sunshine_lion
Knowflake

Posts: 1774
From: ann arbor mi
Registered: Apr 2008

posted February 28, 2009 08:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sunshine_lion     Edit/Delete Message
mvm - i understand how you feel. we take on too much on ourselves sometimes as in how it relates to being responsible for others. we cant fix what might be wrong in our friends lives, and it can be frustrating when they don't get it and react in anger. i understand. take care of you! hugs, me

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