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Author Topic:   Loving without knowing
raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 02, 2009 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message
There are people who don't know me and when they talk to me I feel like they are talking to someone else. They like me and love me, but it is really someone else they love. I used to think "You say you love me, but you don't even know me." They think they know the best and they have figured out me.

This is a stigma in our society. Many people don't even know each other and they believe they love each other.

This problem is universal. Have you felt like this? They believe they love you and tell you so, but it is just an empty statement and they themselves never realize it.


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writesomething
Knowflake

Posts: 2864
From: meet me in montauk
Registered: May 2006

posted February 02, 2009 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for writesomething     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, I totally get what youre saying. Something to ponder today.

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Nyah
Knowflake

Posts: 192
From: Europe
Registered: Nov 2008

posted February 02, 2009 12:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nyah     Edit/Delete Message
yep, and hates it when people think they've got me all figured out.

and when I do stuff that contradict their image of me they get irritated and say "this isn't you"! blah, it IS, you're just too narrowminded to realize it!!

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Ascendant: Gemini
Sun: Pisces
Moon: Capricorn
Mercury: Pisces
Venus: Capricorn
Mars: Aquarius

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bunnies
Knowflake

Posts: 777
From: U.K
Registered: Mar 2007

posted February 03, 2009 04:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
I feel it the opposite way.
I think I am like "this" and people laugh and say "You're not like that AT ALL!!!
And they all seem to have the same opinion, so is it me who has it all wrong?
Do I not know myself?

"oh to see ourselves as others see us"

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raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 03, 2009 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message
bunnies, that happens when you don't know yourself. Then most often others know you slightly better (just slightly better). Many if not all could have the same opinion and all could be wrong.

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cheshirekat
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Posts: 117
From: wonderland
Registered: Jan 2009

posted February 03, 2009 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cheshirekat     Edit/Delete Message
Like online-dating? Sometimes that confuses me, I guess you need to know someone in a "physical, intellectual, and spiritual" sense to actually fall in love with them and if one of these were missing..I guess the words "I love you, I accept you and I know you" are truely empty.

Though my Libra cousin as a very interesting connection to another Libra states away from us, they're close in all the departments but physical though but they're working on that.

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bunnies
Knowflake

Posts: 777
From: U.K
Registered: Mar 2007

posted February 03, 2009 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bunnies     Edit/Delete Message
Well I'm in my own head raj so I thought I might have an idea what was going on!
Obviously not!
An interesting experiment would be to see what people on LL think each others personality is like. Having not met but just what they have gleaned fom posts.
I wonder how near the mark they would be?

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raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 08, 2009 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message
To me loving is basically the same as knowing. I cannot love someone without knowing them deeply, intimately. I want to know the real person inside in order to really love them. Sometimes this poses difficulties. I ask them questions, and there are questions I would like to ask (like, "why do you like this particular song", "I know you are telling me lies, but what made you think you need to lie to me") but my questions sound too much for them. They just want to chat about daily life realities. This is a real hindrance, but that is an area where I am not an expert at all. I would like to talk about the pressing matters of life, see what is their point of view in them, but that looks to them like I want to discuss philosophy.

I am a Taurus, and what I stated above is not a Taurus quality(from what I have read about Taurus).

There are people at the other end of the spectrum. They will love you unconditionally no matter who you are. I think this is a Pisces quality, but to these rare few knowing is not an important prerequisite for loving. They know all about human nature and that suffices.

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triplepisces
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Posts: 154
From:
Registered: May 2008

posted February 12, 2009 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for triplepisces     Edit/Delete Message
love is a verb

I guess the word love warms up the world itself. If you also like him/her, why don't you help the other person understand/know you more instead of pondering if words are like gracious chocolates )

or if they just say it without meaning it and you don't like them much, you probably dont care and why waste time thinking it over )

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Lara
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Posts: 5200
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted February 14, 2009 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
I prefer for a guy to say "I love you" once in my lifetime and it mean the world than once a day and it mean nothing.

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Arnicka
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Posts: 1271
From:
Registered: Jun 2004

posted February 14, 2009 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arnicka     Edit/Delete Message
lara, that is such an aquarian thing to think! you cant be leo rising..

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Lara
Knowflake

Posts: 5200
From: London
Registered: Mar 2006

posted February 15, 2009 06:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
lol you think so Arnicka?

May i ask why?

Aquarians mess my head up more than leo's l have to admit. I fall hard for them and can never get away

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Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 1391
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007

posted February 15, 2009 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
There are people at the other end of the spectrum. They will love you unconditionally no matter who you are. I think this is a Pisces quality, but to these rare few knowing is not an important prerequisite for loving. They know all about human nature and that suffices.

Raj, I think I am one of those on the other end of the spectrum. Its funny you say that because I have Pisces on my 7th house cusp. The way my chart is I think I can experience love in many ways. My strongest love started when I was 10 years old and still is strong today. I am not with her but I love her deeply. I know her nature and how she is. I know her enough to know that she is my type.

Also, I think some love connections cannot be explained. Like, you can't box love in to just one standard.

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 16, 2009 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message
quote:

Like, you can't box love in to just one standard.

GG, I found your comment interesting. What other standards are you thinking about?

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Pumpkin Peace
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Posts: 140
From: Fort Collins, Colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted February 16, 2009 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pumpkin Peace     Edit/Delete Message
Sometimes people think they are loving someone when they are really just lusting or are attached to them somehow.
I think true Love is just accepting and having no fear. It can manifest in many different ways (just read the Twelve Mysteries of Love in Love Signs). It promotes harmony and peace, without feelings of frustration and being taken advantage of. It's being open to new ideas, and when you truly love someone, you don't put them in a box and say "this is the way you are". You are open to them changing and/or bringing out their true self, by helping Love to grow in their hearts as well. Because Love IS the true self.
(Yes, I did read that last line somewhere. Hehe. But it's something that I always felt before that anyway.)
So when you say you love someone, without really "knowing" them, it just means you are accepting them for who they are. It's like starting out in class with an A, -- it's easy to love someone when you're only seeing one facet of them -- and you have to work to keep that A. Love is constantly put to the test. So it may start out as a pure Love, but only time can tell if it will STAY that way and not become tainted when seeing another side of the person. Of course, even if it does, you can always work to get the true Love back.

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Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 1391
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007

posted February 17, 2009 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
GG, I found your comment interesting. What other standards are you thinking about?

Well, thats it. There are no standards in my opinion. We humans always try to left brain things and categorize everything so we can understand it better. I believe that you know when you love someone and that is all you need. Now, like Pumpkin Peace said, true love is not to be confused with lust and infatuation, though it is very easily confused. And it really is hard to love someone without knowing them however, I believe some people may experience that.

Me personally, with my Scorpio love, she practically lived with my family for almost 6.5 years. I was around her at least 5 days and often 6 days a week. And when she was with us, she stayed overnight at least 4 of those days. So I can say that I know her very well.
Pumpkin Peace also said something very important.

quote:
It promotes harmony and peace, without feelings of frustration and being taken advantage of. It's being open to new ideas, and when you truly love someone, you don't put them in a box and say "this is the way you are". You are open to them changing and/or bringing out their true self, by helping Love to grow in their hearts as well. Because Love IS the true self.
This is also what I believe. To me (and this may be a form of standardizing or boxing in), part of true love is wanting the other to be happy. And in trying to make the other person happy, you help cultivate whatever it is they are trying to achieve.

Forgive me for the analogy, but its like picking out a basic BMW and then adding all the options as time goes by. You still love the BMW at its core even though there have been changes to it along the way.


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Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 18, 2009 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message

quote:

It's being open to new ideas, and when you truly love someone, you don't put them in a box and say "this is the way you are". You are open to them changing and/or bringing out their true self, by helping Love to grow in their hearts as well

That is precisely my point. Knowing someone is a never ending process. You just don't know someone, and having "known" them, decide this is the way he/she is, this is the way he/she not is. That is the rarely the way he/she is.

Besides people grow. They learn from their past, their mistakes. So knowing someone means knowing how they are changing. I would like to say : Some people are not bothered about who you are, they are bothered about who you were.

quote:

It's like starting out in class with an A, -- it's easy to love someone when you're only seeing one facet of them -- and you have to work to keep that A. Love is constantly put to the test.

That is the reality. I believe many people have difficulty realizing it.

quote:

I believe that you know when you love someone and that is all you need

I wouldn't agree with that. You may know you are in love with someone, but what you know could be wrong! My question is, how would anyone know whether they are in love, or it is just infatuation? They themselves may not know it. Though personally in your case you know you love someone and you do love the someone as well.

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Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 1391
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007

posted February 18, 2009 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
Now it's like we are splitting hairs here. The way you love may be different than the way someone else loves. That's what I mean by not standardizing or trying to box in the way one person loves and trying to say "well my way to love is the only way and my way of knowing when someone is in love is the only way." Youre way of knowing you are in love or knowing a person is just that you're way. It is neither superior nor inferior to the way other people know. We are all individuals with different minds and personalities. You couldn't possibly say there is only one single way to know all mankind should go by to know they are in love.

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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Pumpkin Peace
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Posts: 140
From: Fort Collins, Colorado
Registered: Sep 2007

posted February 26, 2009 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pumpkin Peace     Edit/Delete Message
That is exactly Linda's point in Love Signs. Each sun sign individual goes through a different experience of love and comprehends it in a different way. That doesn't make one person more loving than the other, or one level of love more important than the other. All that matters is that they learn their personal lesson of Love, whether someone else recognizes it as such or not.

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raj_105_2001
Knowflake

Posts: 1359
From: Chennai
Registered: Apr 2001

posted February 27, 2009 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for raj_105_2001     Edit/Delete Message
Fine. I will make it clearer. You are the person being loved. Let us for the moment not think about you loving someone. You are being loved by someone.

If you are being loved and not known at the same time, it is going to hurt you at some point of time. This is not a standard by any means. You would not feel loved unless you feel the person who loves you knows you.

How many times in the midst of a quarrel we say "You don't understand" or "Please understand"? Why do we say that? To be not understood hurts deeply. It is like being lost without a compass in a jungle. Someone must find you.

Arguments start developing later in a romance that once flourished well mainly because the partners begin to know more of each other. You will love someone because you know something about them. You know something important and that is enough to fall in love. But when later when surprises develop you may find it difficult to keep your love. Knowing itself need not be intellectual. Knowing can be emotional too. When you know someone emotionally you are sensitive to their emotions. It is like knowing the person from the inside, instead of just their behavior (which are just the symptoms).

Knowing itself can take different forms. For a Taurus, it can be knowing your dreams and wishes so that he or she can fulfill them. For a Scorpio, who explores human nature, he or she may want to understand what you experience. For a Gemini knowing is learning your many faces.

This is by no means a standard, or a rule to be followed. This is a deep, subtle reality.

I hope you will agree.


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Got Gemini?
Knowflake

Posts: 1391
From: Mercury
Registered: Jul 2007

posted March 01, 2009 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Got Gemini?     Edit/Delete Message
Now that my friend, I can definitely agree with!

It was much more clear when you explained that knowing need not be intellectual only. Thats where I was having my hang-up. When you defined knowing as in emotionally knowing, I can relate to that.

------------------
Virgo Asc 6˚& Mars 0˚
Gemini Sun 24˚
Libra Moon 14˚(conjunct Pluto 0˚ in 2nd house)
Gemini Mercury 25˚
Cancer Venus 29˚ (Mutual reception with Moon)
And yes, i'm a guy!

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